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  #221  
Old 10-08-2015, 12:02 AM
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"excessive emotional dependence" = being in love.
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  #222  
Old 10-08-2015, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
How would the monarchy would have stood if Car Philip were still the crown prince and married Sofia? Would there have been a different perception of the royal house? Would Sofia, given her past, have been accepted as a wife of a future head of state, a future queen? If Victoria's popularity is helping in the public's acceptance of her being the next sovereign, how would a hypothetical Crown Prince couple would have been received as the next monarch and his queen consort? It's the one thing an elected head of state has in common with one born to the role - likability is key in gaining and remaining in power.
Well, this is a very un-answerable question. Because Carl Phillip would have been raised a bit different, doing more of the things Victoria did. They wouldn't be the same people as they are now so it's not a question that can be answered.
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  #223  
Old 10-08-2015, 06:43 AM
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@hernameispekka - are you suggesting that if Carl Philip were raised differently - groomed for the throne - he would have made a different choice in a wife? A lot of people dismissed Daniel for a fling and not prince consort material. No one saw him coming - or staying. But Daniel also did not have scandal attached to his name. Sofia does. Would the king and the Riksdag consented to Carl Philip's marriage to Sofia if Carl Philip were heir apparent? Princess is one thing; queen is another. Would Carl Philip have been forced to choose between the crown and his heart?
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  #224  
Old 10-08-2015, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
@hernameispekka - are you suggesting that if Carl Philip were raised differently - groomed for the throne - he would have made a different choice in a wife? A lot of people dismissed Daniel for a fling and not prince consort material. No one saw him coming - or staying. But Daniel also did not have scandal attached to his name. Sofia does. Would the king and the Riksdag consented to Carl Philip's marriage to Sofia if Carl Philip were heir apparent? Princess is one thing; queen is another. Would Carl Philip have been forced to choose between the crown and his heart?
No, not at all a slight towards Sophia. Just that he would probably have studied more, been less of a party prince etc and he would have different life experiences shaping him into another person than he is now, hence my inability to answer that question at all! Because who know how he would handle that pressure. Would he be more of the hard working kind that Victoria is? Or would he had crumbled under the pressure? etc etc. If Victoria went to another gym everything would have been different. etc etc. We don't know what choices in life shape and change how our life turns out so questions like that are way to complex to be able to answer.
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  #225  
Old 10-08-2015, 07:09 AM
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Of course Carl Philip (and Madeleine) were raised in a different way. They are not heirs to the throne. So there is no way of knowing what would have happened if one of them had been heir and raised differently.

But if CP had been the heir, I don't see any reason why he would have to give up the love of his life. I'm glad that I live in a nation where everyone, including royals, are allowed to marry whomever they want. And where people are judged not by their past.
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  #226  
Old 10-08-2015, 07:20 AM
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I don't understand why Daniel got all the criticism because people were skeptical when it was announced the engagement. But had it been Soifa, no one would have bat an eye. Don't get it at all. And I can understand why Daniel was welcomed a bit coldly at the beginning, but when it comes to Sofia, if CP had been the heir, she can't be judged for her past.
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  #227  
Old 10-08-2015, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Marty91charmed View Post
I don't understand why Daniel got all the criticism because people were skeptical when it was announced the engagement. But had it been Soifa, no one would have bat an eye. Don't get it at all. And I can understand why Daniel was welcomed a bit coldly at the beginning, but when it comes to Sofia, if CP had been the heir, she can't be judged for her past.
I don't think it was much issue around him at all, that I can remember. Maybe in more conservative circles. But all I remember was people being happy because they seemed cute together + it being good PR that he was "one of the people".
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  #228  
Old 10-08-2015, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
I don't think it was much issue around him at all, that I can remember. Maybe in more conservative circles. But all I remember was people being happy because they seemed cute together + it being good PR that he was "one of the people".
Yes I know. But rumours had it many eyesbrows were raised (the King especially) and many in the upper classes were skeptical that he wouldn't fit the role etc (which IMO was understable given that nobody knew much about Daniel). So, what I mean is that if there were doubts about Daniel, why wouldn't have been any about Sofia? That's all
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  #229  
Old 10-08-2015, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
I don't think it was much issue around him at all, that I can remember. Maybe in more conservative circles. But all I remember was people being happy because they seemed cute together + it being good PR that he was "one of the people".
Maybe the people in Sweden were happy for Victoria and Daniel. And why would they have not been? Daniel was a well-mannered young man raised well by his parents, with a healthy way of living, who had worked hard his whole life after he finished school.
But the press wrote how Daniel was a boy from the country with a cap, who couldn't talk with people and who was dumb. And they wrote constantly that the king didn't accept him and that the friends of the royal family didn't accept him. The king didn't want to talk about Daniel as Victoria's boyfriend before the engagement in public, and hardly after that. The press wrote that Daniel's businesses went well, because Victoria was his girlfriend. But the press hasn't written at all that it helped Sofia's Project Playground that she was a girlfriend of a prince...

But now we are getting totally away from the subject. There is no need to speculate what would have happened if Carl Philip would be the crown prince. The royal family is now what it is and goes forward with the king, Victoria as the crown princess and Estelle as her heir.
The SOM-institute publishes probably next spring again the figures of the popularity of the monarchy, the government etc. Then we will see, where the royal family stands. During the last years we have seen that the royal weddings and christenings haven't remarkably raised the popularity of the royal family. Now the weddings are done, some christenings are coming. But if the royal family wants to raise it's popularity, it has to be done with their work and by avoiding scandals.
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  #230  
Old 10-08-2015, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Marty91charmed View Post
Yes I know. But rumours had it many eyesbrows were raised (the King especially) and many in the upper classes were skeptical that he wouldn't fit the role etc (which IMO was understable given that nobody knew much about Daniel). So, what I mean is that if there were doubts about Daniel, why wouldn't have been any about Sofia? That's all
Yeah, I know that there was some stuff around him. But I've only found that out later on. I never saw anything online or heard bad words about them from anyone before that :P Soo :P Well, it was some stuff in like Aftonbladet and things. But most people here regard them as a borderline tabloid...
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  #231  
Old 10-08-2015, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
Yeah, I know that there was some stuff around him. But I've only found that out later on. I never saw anything online or heard bad words about them from anyone before that :P Soo :P Well, it was some stuff in like Aftonbladet and things. But most people here regard them as a borderline tabloid...
Same here. Don't get me wrong, I totally love and support Prince Daniel, I just reported what it was said at that time. You didn't actually answer my question though
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  #232  
Old 10-08-2015, 07:47 AM
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Its difficult to imagine a better Crown Princess than Victoria. No doubt she helps the overall institution of monarchy within Sweden
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  #233  
Old 10-08-2015, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Marty91charmed View Post
Same here. Don't get me wrong, I totally love and support Prince Daniel, I just reported what it was said at that time. You didn't actually answer my question though
I was trying to get away from the little of topicness :P But I see no problem with Sofia so I'm not the right person to ask :) But if I was to hazard a guess. There is a difference between being a owner of a sucsessful buisness in Stockholm and Sofias work history.
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  #234  
Old 10-08-2015, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
I was trying to get away from the little of topicness :P But I see no problem with Sofia so I'm not the right person to ask :) But if I was to hazard a guess. There is a difference between being a owner of a sucsessful buisness in Stockholm and Sofias work history.
I was kidding of course, Im aware my question was a bit off topic.
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  #235  
Old 10-08-2015, 08:24 AM
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Its difficult to imagine a better Crown Princess than Victoria. No doubt she helps the overall institution of monarchy within Sweden
I totally agree with you. If the monarchy was abolished, and we had a president instead, I have no doubt that she would win the presidential election if she was a candidate :)
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  #236  
Old 10-08-2015, 08:29 AM
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I totally agree with you. If the monarchy was abolished, and we had a president instead, I have no doubt that she would win the presidential election if the was a candidate :)
I agree. I would vote for her. I have the uttermost trust and respect for her and her judgement.
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  #237  
Old 10-08-2015, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Its difficult to imagine a better Crown Princess than Victoria. No doubt she helps the overall institution of monarchy within Sweden
The attributed popularity seems not translate in approval ratings which is once more an illustration that having a good opinion of a person (Victoria in this case) not necessarily means being in favour of a monarchical system of state.

I think many Parliamentarians have a very good opinion of Victoria but nevertheless support the democratic principle of an elected head of state.

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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
I totally agree with you. If the monarchy was abolished, and we had a president instead, I have no doubt that she would win the presidential election if she was a candidate :)
Victoria's popularity also is vested in her neutrality. Du moment she runs for the presidency and has to debate with Stefan Löfven (Labour), Jessica Polfjärd (Moderates) or Gustav Fridolin (Greens) about issues like Sweden's entry to the NATO, about the enormous influx of immigrants and the effects on society, about cuts in the Swedish welfare state, about the reforms in the EU and the Schengen zone, about the entry into he common currency (Euro), about God-knows-what, then she looses her angelic perfectly impartial face and becomes a politician like any other. People saying "she will win presidential elections!" judge her for what she is now: a pretty lady with a cute toddler and a total unknown political stance. But that is not how someone enters elections and wins these...
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  #238  
Old 10-08-2015, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Victoria's popularity also is vested in her neutrality. Du moment she runs for the presidency and has to debate with Stefan Löfven (Labour), Jessica Polfjärd (Moderates) or Gustav Fridolin (Greens) about issues like Sweden's entry to the NATO, about the enormous influx of immigrants and the effects on society, about cuts in the Swedish welfare state, about the reforms in the EU and the Schengen zone, about the entry into he common currency (Euro), about God-knows-what, then she looses her angelic perfectly impartial face and becomes a politician like any other. People saying "she will win presidential elections!" judge her for what she is now: a pretty lady with a cute toddler and a total unknown political stance. But that is not how someone enters elections and wins these...

You make very good points. However, it also reinforces what I wrote before: would the Swedes prefer to have an elected partisan president with lots of personal powers as in neighboring Finland when they can have instead a powerless, perfectly neutral and non-controversial Head of State with an "angelic impartial face" and a nice looking family ? That is what makes me skeptical about the Swedish republican movement.

Personally, I think that, if Sweden ever becomes a republic, it would make more sense to have a German-like president, who would also be politically neutral, than a Finnish-like one.
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  #239  
Old 10-08-2015, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
You make very good points. However, it also reinforces what I wrote before: would the Swedes prefer to have an elected partisan president with lots of personal powers as in neighboring Finland when they can have instead a powerless, perfectly neutral and non-controversial Head of State with an "angelic impartial face" and a nice looking family ? That is what makes me skeptical about the Swedish republican movement.

Personally, I think that, if Sweden ever becomes a republic, it would make more sense to have a German-like president, who would also be politically neutral, than a Finnish-like one.
I agree. Some of my main points for monarchy is to avoid like the US where they have a leader that should both fill the role of good decider and politician but also the role of showing up at tv-shows and the PR part of the country. I'd rather have ONE person focused on leading the county and ONE focused on promoting the country.
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  #240  
Old 10-08-2015, 11:31 AM
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I think that when monarchies turn into republics, the role of the monarch which is ceremonial of nature, will be filled by a President, equally ceremonial of nature.

The President of the former monarchy which is Germany, Mr Joachim Gauck, has a largely ceremonial role. The real leader of the country is the Chancellor, at the moment that is Mrs Angela Merkel.

The President of the former monarchy which is Italy, Mr Sergio Mattarella, has a largely ceremonial role. The real leader of the country is the Prime Minister, at the moment that is Mr Matteo Renzi.

The President of the former monarchy which is Greece, Mr Prokopis Pavlopoulos, has a largely ceremonial role. The real leader of the country is the Prime Minister, at the moment that is Mr Alexis Tsipras.

It is hard to see monarchies with a ceremonial head of state for centuries turning into a presidential style country ā la the United States, France or Russia.
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