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  #181  
Old 08-06-2015, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by grevinnan View Post
Sometimes comments are so out in left field that I am wondering what kind of site I am on. I would guess most Swedes, including me, think that the comment about the Crown Princess is a bunch of bull.
Absolutley..
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  #182  
Old 10-06-2015, 10:31 AM
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This isn't about the popularity but more about the future of the monarchy:

Yasmine Larsson from the Social Democratic Party, Maria Weimer from the Swedish Liberal Party, Niclas Malmberg from the Green Party and Mia Sydow Mölleby from the Left party have done on 2nd October a joint motion to Riksdagen (Parliament) that the monarchy should be abolished. For the first time in modern history Republicans across party boundaries demand in a joint motion in parliament for the monarchy to be abolished.
Yasmine Larsson and Maria Weimer were at Nordegren & Epstein -program on Radio Sweden to discuss about this.
The reporter asked: When we will have a republic with a president?
Answers:
Yasmine Larsson: in 10 years
Maria Weimer: in 15 years
Nytt krav att avsätta kungahuset - Nordegren & Epstein i P1 _ Sveriges Radio

The motion
http://data.riksdagen.se/fil/B0B0826...A-39B5E0A67BD2
Translation
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  #183  
Old 10-06-2015, 10:48 AM
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Think the Swedish monarchy will end within 10 years?
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  #184  
Old 10-06-2015, 10:52 AM
eya eya is offline
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I think that monarchies are not abolished as easily. At least that showed the past.They abolished after wars or coups usual. Now why in Sweden throughout this talk do not know.
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  #185  
Old 10-06-2015, 10:56 AM
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Yasmine Larsson, who made this motion and signed it as first, is the Chairman of the Swedish Republican Association and of course because of that is extremely positive that their work to abolish the monarchy comes true as quickly as possible.
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  #186  
Old 10-06-2015, 11:05 AM
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Well, it seems like a bit of a non-question at the moment and this suprised me alot. But I guess, since there is a bit of unrest and such in the country right now fingers are being pointed left and right.... I doubt that the motion will go through and either way it takes 2 votes separated by a election to change the "constitution" (is that the right translation?), but you never know. This seems a bit out of the blue, I must say!
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  #187  
Old 10-06-2015, 11:21 AM
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The monarchy is the best regime for Sweden. Monarchy forever.
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  #188  
Old 10-06-2015, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
Well, it seems like a bit of a non-question at the moment and this suprised me alot. But I guess, since there is a bit of unrest and such in the country right now fingers are being pointed left and right.... I doubt that the motion will go through and either way it takes 2 votes separated by a election to change the "constitution" (is that the right translation?), but you never know. This seems a bit out of the blue, I must say!
I don't think that those who signed it believe that the motion goes through. But like they said, one more party (or a member of the party) has signed the motion and they hope that by talking with people, and talking at this radio program they will get more members of the parliament to sign the motion next time.

The Republican Association has for the first time over 11 000 members. Ten years ago the association had about 2500 members and five years ago about 5 000 members.
- The fact that more and more people actively take a stand for a democratic, egalitarian and modern polity is amazing. We have for many years seen a strong influx of members and this gives us greater resources to increase the pressure in the campaign for a republic. It's full speed ahead for the Republican movement, says the chairman of the society, Yasmine Larsson.
Medlemsrekord för republikaner - Republikanska föreningen
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  #189  
Old 10-06-2015, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
I don't think that those who signed it believe that the motion goes through. But like they said, one more party (or a member of the party) has signed the motion and they hope that by talking with people, and talking at this radio program they will get more members of the parliament to sign the motion next time.
Considering the gravity of what they are proposing, the motion seems very unconvincing in what it says (the translated version at least) - would such a motion be allowed to go through?

Sweden is renowned for having developed (rather than fought for) its modern and forward-thinking society and democracy. Having a monarchy has been no barrier to that at all.
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  #190  
Old 10-06-2015, 02:08 PM
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I suspect they will be far too busy integrating, and assimilating the large numbers of migrants that are arriving now, to have much time or taste to mess about with a tried and tested political settlement..
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  #191  
Old 10-06-2015, 02:10 PM
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We need to make the distinction in personal popularity and the desire for the best form of state. Who does not like Crown Princess Victoria and her cute little Estelle? However that does not mean someone who likes Victoria as a person is also automatically in favour of a monarchic form of state...

I am a monarchist but I am also a conservative. The only "logic" reason for having a monarchy is sentiment, the living bond with the past, the embodiment of a royal dynasty, the "fairytale" if you want. But the more the Máximas, the Mette-Marits and the Letizias storm into the Royal Houses, the more "normal" these royals become, paradoxically the less my desire to support the monarchist cause. After all, if I want a "normal" gentleman and a "normal" family with a businesslike approach, maybe I can vote for the president of my own choice, please?

I am sure I will see the collapse of the monarchies in my lifetime. And once Sweden collapses, Norway and the Netherlands and other monarchies will follow. Compare it to same-gender marriage: when it was allowed in the Netherlands, suddenly other states followed too. When the monarchy collapses in Sweden, people in Norway, or Spain or the Netherlands see that the President and the First Lady of Sweden do it as good as King Carl XVI Gustaf and Queen Silvia and suddenly all the other thrones will come in danger.
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  #192  
Old 10-06-2015, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
This isn't about the popularity but more about the future of the monarchy:

Yasmine Larsson from the Social Democratic Party, Maria Weimer from the Swedish Liberal Party, Niclas Malmberg from the Green Party and Mia Sydow Mölleby from the Left party have done on 2nd October a joint motion to Riksdagen (Parliament) that the monarchy should be abolished. For the first time in modern history Republicans across party boundaries demand in a joint motion in parliament for the monarchy to be abolished.
Yasmine Larsson and Maria Weimer were at Nordegren & Epstein -program on Radio Sweden to discuss about this.
The reporter asked: When we will have a republic with a president?
Answers:
Yasmine Larsson: in 10 years
Maria Weimer: in 15 years
Nytt krav att avsätta kungahuset - Nordegren & Epstein i P1 _ Sveriges Radio

The motion
http://data.riksdagen.se/fil/B0B0826...A-39B5E0A67BD2
Translation

Sweden is currently somewhat unique among all European monarchies in the sense that the King effectively has no executive or legislative powers: he doesn't appoint the PM and the cabinet, sign bills into law, call elections, dissolve parliament, or command the armed forces. In fact, his involvement in State affairs is restricted to the right to be kept informed about government policy (whch is exercised both in informal meetings with the PM and in formal Councils of State); the right to preside the Advisory Council on Foreign Affairs whenever that body is convened; opening the annual session of the Riksdag; presiding over a special Council of State when a new government is sworn in; and formally signing the credentials of Swedish ambassadors and receiving the credentials of foreign diplomats.

However, the King remains the constitutional Head of State. As such, he has constitutional immunity against prosecution and can only be replaced by an elected president by a bill passed twice by the Riksdag with a general election (and, most likely, a simultaneous popular referendum) in between. As it was said here, I don't think republicans in Sweden have the numbers right now to overcome that constitutional bar.

Furthermore, assuming that the motion goes through, what kind of republican model is being proposed exactly ? If Sweden had an elected president, would he/she be a purely ceremonial head of state as the King has been since 1975 ? Or would he/she be an all-powerful , elected politician similar to the president of Finland for example? If the answer is the latter, is that something the Swedish people or even the Swedish parliamentary parties would like to have ?

Just as food for thought, here is a link to an English version of the Finnish constitution. Please note the broad powers conferred upon the president.

ICL - Finland - Constitution
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  #193  
Old 10-06-2015, 02:45 PM
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The position of the King in Sweden is not that very different from that of his "colleagues". Yes, formally they seem to have more power but when ends meet, they all are as "powerless" as Carl XVI Gustaf. It is Cameron who decides, not Elizabeth II. It is Rajoy who decides, not Felipe VI. Etc.

That King Harald could easily skip a whole page from his Address from the Throne is telling enough: so it is all theatre and means nothing, just pretend the King is telling something and just pretend we are listening?

That then an underwear model as Sofia Hellqvist or even the son of a commoner (Marius Borg) simply becomes part of the royal family is also telling that all hindrances and barrières have disappeared. That might sound pretty nice and egalitarian but at the same time those barrières were part of the "myth", that the royal family was a world apart and that only a select group "equal born" had access to it (on the risk to be morganized).

People see this and realize they are watching an ape theatre: throw a nickel and we perform a dance for you. All distance has gone. And that distance was exactly what a monarchy needs.
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  #194  
Old 10-06-2015, 02:46 PM
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I think we should be careful about underestimating the nationalism in Europe and also in Sweden.

The royals are national symbols and nationalism will be on the rise in the years to come.

As for Sweden: The politicians and the opinion elite, including the media, may very well prefer to ditch the monarchy - but that segments is moving ever further away from the ordinary Svenssons.
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  #195  
Old 10-06-2015, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I think we should be careful about underestimating the nationalism in Europe and also in Sweden.

The royals are national symbols and nationalism will be on the rise in the years to come.

As for Sweden: The politicians and the opinion elite, including the media, may very well prefer to ditch the monarchy - but that segments is moving ever further away from the ordinary Svenssons.
Do you think the republican French are less nationalist than the royalist Swedes?

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  #196  
Old 10-06-2015, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Do you think the republican French are less nationalist than the royalist Swedes?

France don't have a monarchy in place. - As a politically neutral symbol for the nationalists. They use other symbols instead.
However, had the French monarchy still been around, I wonder if Front National wouldn't be rallying around it?
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  #197  
Old 10-06-2015, 03:15 PM
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I put this article here, I posted it earlier to another thread

An article at Dagens Industri, at the Ledare (leader) column
Leader: A Queen to all the People of Sweden
Anyone who follows the royal family can't be without noticing the King and the Crown Princess' commitment to integration and migration issues. At the opening of parliament the King spoke unusually long time about the escape from conflict, the importance of doing what we can to help and to prepare new generations at major changes.
Yesterday the King and the Crown Princess visited a school in Sweden's largest refugee receipt center in Vänersborg and repeated there the same message.
Previously, the Crown Princess and her husband have visited several times the House of Emigrants in Växjö.
The Royal Family's growing interest in migration is positive news. Sweden is a large country of immigration but suffers grave lack of common institutions that can collect all of the country. Traditionally strong immigrant countries like the United States, United Kingdom and Canada are careful about their patriotism and filling citizenship with feelings that touch people. Affiliation with the Swedish nation has been so obvious and so implied that nobody has needed to institutionalize it.
It is a weakness that is now obvious. For example, we do not even have a word for the Swedish citizen which works completely painlessly. The word "svenskar" ("Swedes") is perceived by too many as the name for the old ethnicity and find it difficult to collect all. The Crown Princess avoids the word and uses instead "Sveriges folk" ("The People of Sweden").
In this gap between the old and the new also principled republicans must admit that the monarchy may be the only institution that can now bring together the people of Sweden, and that can symbolize "vi" ("we"). No party has right now that role, not the army, not the football, not the SVT, not Astrid Lindgren, and certainly not the Tax Agency.
For the Crown Princess the role is perfect. The King has profiled himself as an environmentalist. She is a second-generation immigrant and can play a major, important and long-term role as a symbol of an inclusive patriotism. It seems difficult to know what it means to be a Swede, but it is easy to keep on the queen.
[URL="http://www.di.se/artiklar/2015/9/24/ledare-drottning-for-hela-sveriges-folk/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=share_from_di"]Ledare_*Drottning för hela Sveriges folk - di.se[/URL

In 2014, 1.6 million of Sweden's population were born abroad = over 16%.
And after that article in DI was written about two weeks ago, the queen met refugee children who had arrived unaccompanied to Sweden in Landskrona, Carl Philip and Sofia attended at a concert which collected money for refugees, and Carl Philip and Sofia visited a reception center in Borlänge.
Victoria and Daniel with their Crown Princess Couple's Foundation, Stiftelsen Läxhjälpen (Homework Foundation) and Samsung are now together in a pilot project to welcome the newly arrived refugee children to Sweden. The aim is to quickly introduce the newly arrived children in a regular school class. Victoria's and Daniel's Foundation supports also a association for unaccompanied children and "Swedish with a Baby" association where from all over the world to Sweden come parents can meet, study swedish and socialize by talking swedish.

So the royal family is well aware of how the population of Sweden is changing, and in tight contact with Sweden's new and future citizens. Perhaps in a much more tight contact than many of the politicians.
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  #198  
Old 10-06-2015, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
We need to make the distinction in personal popularity and the desire for the best form of state. Who does not like Crown Princess Victoria and her cute little Estelle? However that does not mean someone who likes Victoria as a person is also automatically in favour of a monarchic form of state...

I am a monarchist but I am also a conservative. The only "logic" reason for having a monarchy is sentiment, the living bond with the past, the embodiment of a royal dynasty, the "fairytale" if you want. But the more the Máximas, the Mette-Marits and the Letizias storm into the Royal Houses, the more "normal" these royals become, paradoxically the less my desire to support the monarchist cause. After all, if I want a "normal" gentleman and a "normal" family with a businesslike approach, maybe I can vote for the president of my own choice, please?

I am sure I will see the collapse of the monarchies in my lifetime. And once Sweden collapses, Norway and the Netherlands and other monarchies will follow. Compare it to same-gender marriage: when it was allowed in the Netherlands, suddenly other states followed too. When the monarchy collapses in Sweden, people in Norway, or Spain or the Netherlands see that the President and the First Lady of Sweden do it as good as King Carl XVI Gustaf and Queen Silvia and suddenly all the other thrones will come in danger.

The Swedish royal family is actually pretty good IMHO at keeping up with the "fairytale" side of the monarchy. Although they now marry commoners like Daniel and Sofia (which is OK in an egalitarian society like Sweden), they seem to enjoy the gala events, the big gun tiaras, carriage rides, white tie weddings, and even the public christening of royal princes way down the line of succession. In a way, they keep traditions that are being phased out even in the modern-day "mother of all monarchies" like the UK.

Furthermore, as I argued in previous posts, I believe there is an actual case for the monarchy as a system of government to be kept in countries like Sweden, or Denmark, or Australia. And that case has nothing to do with popularity, but rather with the fact that potential republican alternatives don't have any clear advantage compared to the present system and may actually end up being worse.

As I said, in the post-1975 Swedish constitution, there is a clear and unambiguous statement of where the executive power lies. It lies with a PM who is appointed upon proposal of the president of the Riksdag (after consulting with the parliamentary parties) and can be removed, or forced into calling a fresh election, by a parliamentary vote of no confidence. The Head of State, on the other hand, is confined to ceremonial and representation duties. The moment Sweden gets an elected president as in Finland, Portugal, or France, that balance of power is upset in a way that the Swedish society and Swedish political parties themselves are not used to.

Of course, it is hard in the 21st century to argue that a hereditary Head of State and a family who has the monopoly of that office reserved for its firstborn child are not anachronistic concepts. Paradoxically, however, the fact that the King owes his position to an accident of birth and has no popular legitimacy is precisely what forces him to withdraw completely from government decisions in a way an elected president probably wouldn't do. A constitutional monarchy, therefore, is a better match in my view for a parliamentary system of government.
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  #199  
Old 10-06-2015, 08:47 PM
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Now it's going to an investigation in the Riksdag to end the monarchy in Sweden. I knew that anti-monarchy sentiment rose recently, but to take it to a vote in parliament? Two to three weeks ago the SRF was present for the opening of Parliament. Now four days before Nicolas' christening this bomb is dropped. Question...don't members of the government attend royal christenings? Are there going to be no-shows as an act of "civil disobedience" - to make a point that royalty does not matter in modern Sweden? I wonder if some people have seen this coming - SVT would not broadcast Nicolas' christening (until public backlash made the station owner change his/her mind). Did the SRF see this coming...and now it's going to do more public appearances to appeal more to the people and show its "value" in everyday life? I can see Carl Gustaf putting up a fight if there is one. The Riksdag disinherited his son in 1979 (I think it still stings to this day); he's not going to sit by and see his daughter and granddaughter lose the Silver Throne. I think Nicolas' christening is the first volley the SRF will fire for its survival.
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  #200  
Old 10-06-2015, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
Now it's going to an investigation in the Riksdag to end the monarchy in Sweden. I knew that anti-monarchy sentiment rose recently, but to take it to a vote in parliament? Two to three weeks ago the SRF was present for the opening of Parliament. Now four days before Nicolas' christening this bomb is dropped. Question...don't members of the government attend royal christenings? Are there going to be no-shows as an act of "civil disobedience" - to make a point that royalty does not matter in modern Sweden? I wonder if some people have seen this coming - SVT would not broadcast Nicolas' christening (until public backlash made the station owner change his/her mind). Did the SRF see this coming...and now it's going to do more public appearances to appeal more to the people and show its "value" in everyday life? I can see Carl Gustaf putting up a fight if there is one. The Riksdag disinherited his son in 1979 (I think it still stings to this day); he's not going to sit by and see his daughter and granddaughter lose the Silver Throne. I think Nicolas' christening is the first volley the SRF will fire for its survival.
I don't think there is any imminent threat to the monarchy in Sweden. You are probably overreacting.
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