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  #281  
Old 10-13-2019, 10:59 PM
Countessmeout's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Is there any distinction between the terms "Kungahus" and "Kungliga Huset" or between "Kungafamiljen" and "Kungliga Familjen"? A line was newly added to the "Kungafamiljen" page together with the changes in membership.


Kungafamiljen - Sveriges Kungahus

Kungafamiljen

Sveriges Kungahus tillhör ätten Bernadotte, som sedan över 200 år sitter på Sveriges tron.

Det Kungl. Huset utgörs av [...]

Den Kungl. Familjen utgörs av Kungl. Huset samt Konungens övriga barnbarn och systrar: [...]

Surely, it doesn't mean that the family members who are not part of the Royal House don't belong to the House of Bernadotte?


It simply says that those in the royal house are members of the House of Bernadotte. Just like those who are working royals in the UK are in the house of Windsor.

Does that mean that those who are not in the royal house are not Bernadottes? No. As my critical thinking teacher would say, all Salmon are fish, but not all fish are salmon. All members of the Swedish royal house are Bernadottes, but not all Bernadottes are members of the royal house.


The distinction is simply to what we already see in the Netherlands and Spain for instance. Where there are those who are members of the 'royal house' aka working royals, and those who while members of the royal family, no longer or never did belong to the royal house. Meaning they don't officially represent the country in any real capacity.
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  #282  
Old 10-13-2019, 11:13 PM
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Of course all of them are part of the House of Bernadotte. They are just making a line between members of the Royal House and members of the Royal Family.
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  #283  
Old 10-13-2019, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Is there any distinction between the terms "Kungahus" and "Kungliga Huset" or between "Kungafamiljen" and "Kungliga Familjen"? A line was newly added to the "Kungafamiljen" page together with the changes in membership.


Kungafamiljen - Sveriges Kungahus

Kungafamiljen

Sveriges Kungahus tillhör ätten Bernadotte, som sedan över 200 år sitter på Sveriges tron.

Det Kungl. Huset utgörs av [...]

Den Kungl. Familjen utgörs av Kungl. Huset samt Konungens övriga barnbarn och systrar: [...]

Surely, it doesn't mean that the family members who are not part of the Royal House don't belong to the House of Bernadotte?
At the english page the members who don't belong to the Royal House are not listed at the House of Bernadotte:
Royal Family - Sveriges Kungahus

They are members of The Bernadotte Dynasty
The Bernadotte Dynasty - Sveriges Kungahus

And at the swedish website the same thing, those who are not members of Det Kungliga Huset, are members of Ätten Bernadotte
Kungafamiljen - Sveriges Kungahus
Ätten Bernadotte, släktträd - Sveriges Kungahus
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  #284  
Old 10-13-2019, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Is there any distinction between the terms "Kungahus" and "Kungliga Huset" or between "Kungafamiljen" and "Kungliga Familjen"? A line was newly added to the "Kungafamiljen" page together with the changes in membership.


Kungafamiljen - Sveriges Kungahus

Kungafamiljen

Sveriges Kungahus tillhör ätten Bernadotte, som sedan över 200 år sitter på Sveriges tron.

Det Kungl. Huset utgörs av [...]

Den Kungl. Familjen utgörs av Kungl. Huset samt Konungens övriga barnbarn och systrar: [...]

Surely, it doesn't mean that the family members who are not part of the Royal House don't belong to the House of Bernadotte?
Kungahus & Kungliga Huset means exactly the same as does Kungafamiljen & Kungliga Familjen. In both cases the former is a bit more modern and informal than the latter.
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  #285  
Old 10-14-2019, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
At the english page the members who don't belong to the Royal House are not listed at the House of Bernadotte:
Royal Family - Sveriges Kungahus

They are members of The Bernadotte Dynasty
The Bernadotte Dynasty - Sveriges Kungahus

And at the swedish website the same thing, those who are not members of Det Kungliga Huset, are members of Ätten Bernadotte
Kungafamiljen - Sveriges Kungahus
Ätten Bernadotte, släktträd - Sveriges Kungahus
Thank you for pointing this out.
The website is confusing. Doesn't House mean the same thing as Dynasty? And I have seen "ätten" be translated as "house".
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  #286  
Old 10-14-2019, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Thank you for pointing this out.
The website is confusing. Doesn't House mean the same thing as Dynasty? And I have seen "ätten" be translated as "house".
A dynasty can consist of several houses. For instance the Capetian dynasty consists of many related houses such as Valois, Bourbon, Braganca, Orleans etc.
Ätt and house is in most cases the same, yes.
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  #287  
Old 10-14-2019, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
A dynasty can consist of several houses. For instance the Capetian dynasty consists of many related houses such as Valois, Bourbon, Braganca, Orleans etc.
Ätt and house is in most cases the same, yes.
It seems to have a different meaning to the Court since the English pages indicate that all members of the House of Bernadotte are also members of the Bernadotte Dynasty (but not vice versa), rather than the House being a branch of the Dynasty. Hopefully, it is simply a confusing translation of Det Kungliga Huset.
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  #288  
Old 10-14-2019, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
It seems to have a different meaning to the Court since the English pages indicate that all members of the House of Bernadotte are also members of the Bernadotte Dynasty (but not vice versa), rather than the House being a branch of the Dynasty. Hopefully, it is simply a confusing translation of Det Kungliga Huset.
But that's actually technically right. According to the traditional way of counting descent agnatically everyone in the House of Bernadotte are members of the Bernadotte dynasty but those members of said dynasty through cognatic descent aren't members of the House of Bernadotte.
That said I'm sure that you're right and this is just an awkward translation.
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  #289  
Old 10-14-2019, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
But that's actually technically right. According to the traditional way of counting descent agnatically everyone in the House of Bernadotte are members of the Bernadotte dynasty but those members of said dynasty through cognatic descent aren't members of the House of Bernadotte.
That said I'm sure that you're right and this is just an awkward translation.
But if the Court felt that the traditional agnatic way of counting membership of a House was the right way, it would not have counted Estelle and Oscar as members of "The House of Bernadotte" or excluded Alexander and Gabriel from the listing. I'm inclined to agree now that it is probably just an awkward translation, as The Wayback Machine shows that it was formerly translated even more confusingly as The Royal Court - perhaps the Court is not aware that the phrase Royal House is available in English as well as Swedish.
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  #290  
Old 12-02-2019, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
The classic prince consort role, that's what applies to Prince Daniel when he makes an official entrance with his wife.
He always goes three steps behind when needed and he is always sharp to how he can support Victoria in her role as a heir to the throne and future head of state.
[...]
Vi avslöjar! Prins Daniels okända sidor _ Svensk Dam
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Nonetheless, Prince Daniel of Sweden for example always walks behind Crown Princess Victoria in public events.
Is this something done by the other consorts, or does it apply only to Prince Daniel? How strictly is it enforced?
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  #291  
Old 04-28-2020, 05:41 AM
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Duchy of Södermanland Lease of Stenhammar

I made this thread separate from Prince Alexander thread because i wanted to talk about the Duchy itself and didn't want to mix it with current updates of the Prince.

Stenhammar was donated to the State by landowner and courtier Robert von Kræmer in 1903, and the will stipulates that it should be leased out to a Prince of the Royal House, preferably a Duke of Södermanland, if there is one



I think i'm in the minority when I say that I did not and do not agree when the King made Alex the duke. and i think he did it to compensate for the fact that his precious son was never to be king and so he gave alex the only duchy in sweden with an estate attached to it instead of the Crown Princess son Oscar who was born before Alex.
I for one think that the King should have made Prince Oscar the Duke of Södermanland from the beginning..
It makes even less sense now when you take into account the Kings decision to remove his 5 grandkids from the royal house and take away their HRH. How is it that Alex is still able to keep this Dukedom when he is no longer part of the royal house. When the will states that it should be leased to a prince of the royal HOUSE.
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  #292  
Old 04-28-2020, 05:49 AM
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This has been discussed here
Stenhammar Castle, Flen - The Royal Forums
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  #293  
Old 05-22-2020, 02:37 AM
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So i was watching this clip of Prince Gustaf Adolf's Funeral where was Princess Margaretha the oldest daughter? i saw 3 little girls come out of the car but not the oldest.
When Crown Princess Margareta died did they take out her baby or they left it in the womb. I noticed during the funeral that there was no small coffin for a little baby did they put the baby in the coffin with Margareta or they buried her with the baby still inside her stomach.
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  #294  
Old 05-22-2020, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyAtLast View Post

So i was watching this clip of Prince Gustaf Adolf's Funeral where was Princess Margaretha the oldest daughter? i saw 3 little girls come out of the car but not the oldest.
When Crown Princess Margareta died did they take out her baby or they left it in the womb. I noticed during the funeral that there was no small coffin for a little baby did they put the baby in the coffin with Margareta or they buried her with the baby still inside her stomach.
Princess Margaretha attended at her father's funeral with princesses Birgitta and Désirée. Princess Christina was then only 3,5 years old and didn't attend, she was at Haga Palace with prince Carl Gustaf.
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  #295  
Old Today, 02:38 AM
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There have not actually been sixteen kings of Sweden named Carl/Charles. The numeral is a continuation of a tradition inspired by fantasy kings created by 16th century writer Johannes Magnus.
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