Dutch State Visit to Sweden; October 11-13, 2022

[Kingen]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

I was checking the list of honors of the Dutch royal family by country and it appears that King Willem-Alexander is a Knight of the Order of the Seraphim while Queen Maxima is a Commander Grand Cross of the Order of the Polar Star.

What are the chances that King Willem-Alexander may be awarded the Collar of the Order of the Seraphim and that Queen Maxima may be also upgraded to Member of the Order of the Seraphim?

I would say the chances are good. I bet it will be same awards as during the Spanish State Visits last year. King Willem-Alexander will receive the Collar of the Order of the Seraphim and Queen Máxima will become a Member of the Order of the Seraphim.

The interesting part, is indeed what orders Crown Princess Victoria and Prince Daniel will receive.

[Hans-Rickard]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Certainly Máxima will be awarded the order of the Seraphime. This was also the case of Grand Duchess Maria Teresa at the Luxemburgian SV 2007 and for Queen Letizia (but she did not have the order of the Polar Srat as the other 2 ladies.
Will be interesting to see which dutch order Victoria and Daniel will get. Will the yet the Order of the Lion of the Netherlands as it was done for Crown prince Frederik and Crown Princess Mary or the second highest dutch Order as it is usually done. We know that Crown Princess mette-marit was not upgraded at last years SV but not about Crown Prince Haakon as he did not attend.

And The Prince of Wales was also not upgraded during the Dutch State Visit to London in 2018... He even wore the lower Kroonorde (as he also did to the dutch inaguration in 2013) despite also having the higher Orde van Oranje-Nassau...

The choice of Orders for Frederik and Mary during the 2015 visit to Denmark was odd... Joachim and Marie still recived the Kroonorde as expected during the same occasion...

I expect the Orde van Oranje-Nassau for Victoria and Daniel.

Unless Daniel is downgraded again (like during the Spanish state visit) and he, Carl Philip and Sofia recives the Kroonorde while Victoria alone recives a higher order...

[Somebody]

It will indeed be interesting to see whether they will be awarded:
- with the highest honor (Grand Cross of Netherlands Lion) - like Frederik and Mary - or
- with the traditional one for heirs to the throne: Grand Cross of Orange-Nassau - like Haakon and Mette-Marit; or
- if they use the Crown Order again - which was given to Letizia.

[Stefan]

It is also interesting to note that Crown Princess Victoria doesn't have a dutch order yet. Yes she has not participated in a State Visit between the 2 countries but King Willem-Alexander had the Seraphim already before the swedish State Visit to the Netherlands in 2009. So it seems the swedish Royals are more generous in awarding Orders on other occasion then State Visits.

[Duc_et_Pair]

It is also strange that Orders like the Huisorde van Oranje and the Orde van de Gouden Leeuw van het Huis Nassau / l'Ordre du Lion d'Or de la Maison de Nassau which are no Dutch State Orders are bestowed during State Visits.

For making Crown Princess Victoria and Prince Daniel a Ridder Grootkruis in either the Orde van de Nederlandsche Leeuw (the highest civil State Order) or the Orde van Oranje-Nassau (the second highest civil State Order), a Koninklijk Besluit (Royal Decree) is needed, with a ministerial contraseign.

For bestowing House Orders, a Hofbesluit (Court Decree) is signed by the King, without any ministerial contraseign as it is entirely into his royal prerogative.

But the strange thing is that House Orders seem to depend too on State Visits, while nothing would have stopped the King to bestow a House Order on any moment he pleases to do so. That is why it is strange Crown Princess Victoria (goddaughter of Princess (Queen) Beatrix and godmother of Princess Catharina-Amalia) has no Dutch Order yet.

I also think that bestowing the Ridder Grootkruis in de Orde van de Nederlandsche Leeuw to the Crown Prince and -Princess of Denmark was wrong.

Not that the Dutch King apparently has the highest esteem in them, that is not the point. But it is a State Order given during a State Visit. Giving the Norwegian and the Swedish Crown Princely couples a lower Order seems to hint that the State of the Netherlands has another valuation for the Danish couple vs the Norwegian and Swedish couples.

If the King apparently holds such a esteem in Frederik and Mary, he was (and is) free to bestow them the Grootkruis in one of his House Orders. This besides the "usual" Ridder Grootkruis in the (State) Orde van Oranje-Nassau which is given to Heirs.

The Prince of Wales has this:
Grootkruis in de Huisorde van Oranje
Ridder Grootkruis in de Orde van Oranje-Nassau
and he will become
Ridder Grootkruis in Orde van de Nederlandsche Leeuw as well Ridder Grootkruis in de Orde van de Gouden Leeuw van het Huis Nassau (Lux/NL).

[Hans-Rickard]

And during the Dutch State Visit to the other House of Nassau (Luxembourg) in 2018, The Hereditary Grand Ducal Couple could be seen wearing the Orde van Oranje-Nassau...

Only the Grand Ducal Couple wore the Orde van de Nederlandse Leeuw...

As Crown Princess Victoria have no dutch Order so far i would expect the Orde van Oranje-Nassau for her...

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

I also think that bestowing the Ridder Grootkruis in de Orde van de Nederlandsche Leeuw to the Crown Prince and -Princess of Denmark was wrong.

Not that the Dutch King apparently has the highest esteem in them, that is not the point. But it is a State Order given during a State Visit. Giving the Norwegian and the Swedish Crown Princely couples a lower Order seems to hint that the State of the Netherlands has another valuation for the Danish couple vs the Norwegian and Swedish couples.

If the King apparently holds such a esteem in Frederik and Mary, he was (and is) free to bestow them the Grootkruis in one of his House Orders. This besides the "usual" Ridder Grootkruis in the (State) Orde van Oranje-Nassau which is given to Heirs.

The Prince of Wales has this:
Grootkruis in de Huisorde van Oranje
Ridder Grootkruis in de Orde van Oranje-Nassau
and he will become
Ridder Grootkruis in Orde van de Nederlandsche Leeuw as well Ridder Grootkruis in de Orde van de Gouden Leeuw van het Huis Nassau (Lux/NL).

I agree that was a mistake. Unless it had been the new policy to give this order to ALL heirs - but given that the Norwegian couple still has Grand Cross of the Order of Orange Nassau, it is weird. It's best to be consistent in awarding orders - and hopefully no difference is made between Victoria and Daniel. For other couples the spouse of the heir also receives the same order as the heir.

Looking at close relationships: it seems even weirder if you consider that neither Willem-Alexander nor Máxima is a godparent to one of their children, while they are to one of the children of Victoria (W-A for Estelle) and Haakon (Máxima voor Sverre Magnus).

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

It is also strange that Orders like the Huisorde van Oranje and the Orde van de Gouden Leeuw van het Huis Nassau / l'Ordre du Lion d'Or de la Maison de Nassau which are no Dutch State Orders are bestowed during State Visits.

Are they? To whom? It seems the foreign royals normally receive a state order and not a house order at such occasions.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Somebody

Are they? To whom? It seems the foreign royals normally receive a state order and not a house order at such occasions.

The Prince of Wales, the former Princess of Wales, the Princess Royal, Prince Laurent of Belgium, Princess Claire of Belgium, Princess Märtha Louise of Norway, the late Mr Ari Behn, Crown Prince Naruhito of Japan, Princess Sonja of Norway (under King Olav), etc.

[maria-olivia]

The Princess of Wales only foreign Order ?

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

The Prince of Wales, the former Princess of Wales, the Princess Royal, Prince Laurent of Belgium, Princess Claire of Belgium, Princess Märtha Louise of Norway, the late Mr Ari Behn, Crown Prince Naruhito of Japan, Princess Sonja of Norway (under King Olav), etc.

Had forgotten the 'Crown Order' is indeed a house order - it is currently used as the 'third' order in terms of importance it seems - and used for foreign royals that for some reason cannot be awarded a state order...

Ari Behn of course was a special case as the Norwegian royals themselves never gave him a royal order but the Dutch royal family wanted to honor him as well, so I can see why they ended up with a house order in that case.

A recent case was queen Letizia - during their 'introduction visit' if I recall correctly.

At the state visit to Denmark (in 2015) Joachim and Marie also received the crown order - and prince Akishino and princess Kiko received theirs in 2014 - as well as crown princess Masako, which was weirder: because why was she relegated to the same status as her brother-in-law and his wife and not as her husband.

Is this probably a way to be more equal in terms of number state orders between the host and visitor?

In addition, it seems to be given to spouses of non-royal heads of states during state visits.

Maybe we should move this (interesting) discussion to a more appropriate topic - one specifically on Dutch orders?

[Duc_et_Pair]

My guesses are:

HM The King of Sweden
No new Order: he already has the Grand-Cross in the Orde van de Nederlandsche Leeuw.

HM Queen Silvia of Sweden
No new Order: she already has the Grand-Cross in the Orde van de Nederlandsche Leeuw.

HM The King of the Netherlands:
No new Order: he already has the Grand-Cross in the Kungliga Serafimerorden.
Maybe King Carl XVI Gustaf will bestow the chain of said Order on King Willem-Alexander.

HM Queen Máxima:
She already has the Grand-Cross in the Kungliga Nordstjärneorden.
Maybe King Carl XVI Gustaf will bestow the Grand-Cross in the Kungliga Serafimerorden on her.

HRH The Crown Princess:
She has no Dutch Orders yet other than the Wedding Medal 2002 and the Investiture Medal 2013, I think.
Maybe King Willem-Alexander will bestow the Grand-Cross in the Orde van Oranje-Nassau on her.

HRH Prince Daniel:
He has no Dutch Orders yet other than the Investiture Medal 2013, I think.
Maybe King Willem-Alexander will bestow the Grand-Cross in the Orde van Oranje-Nassau on him.

HRH Prince Carl Philip:
He has no Dutch Orders yet other than the Wedding Medal 2002, I think.
Maybe King Willem-Alexander will bestow the Grand-Cross in the Huisorde van Oranje (Kroonorde) on him.

HRH Princess Sofia:
She has no Dutch Orders yet.
Maybe King Willem-Alexander will bestow the Grand-Cross in the Huisorde van Oranje (Kroonorde) on her.

[Kingen]

King Willem-Alexander and Queen Máxima will most likely stay at the Grand Guest Apartments at the Royal Palace of Stockholm during their state visit to Sweden. The Grand Guest Apartments will be closed prior and during the visit. Their Majesties will most likely be the first official guests staying there for a couple of years, mainly because of a renovation of the facade at the Royal Palace.

https://www.kungligaslotten.se/engli...ing-hours.html

[LadyFinn]

The Royal House of the Netherlands published today the program of the visit
Staatsbezoek Zweden – programma _ Nieuwsbericht _ Het Koninklijk Huis
Translation



The Swedish Royal Court published the program of the visit today.

The Crown Princess and Prince Daniel meet the Dutch royal couple at Arlanda on their arrival in Sweden.
Program för statsbesöket från Nederländerna och medieackreditering _ Kungahuset
Translation

Dutch Embassy in Stockholm at its Facebook
King Willem-Alexander and Queen Máxima will come to Stockholm as part of the Dutch state visit to Sweden. You can see them arriving by carriage in the courtyard of the Royal Palace, together with children from De Nederlandse School Stockholm. Please report to the entrance on Slottsbacken 1 no later than 11:30 to be admitted to the public area. The procession arrives in the courtyard at approximately 12:15. If the public area is full, people will no longer be allowed in, so we recommend that you arrive on time. We provide Dutch flags!
https://www.facebook.com/DutchEmbass...6366929779548/

[Kingen]

Originally Posted by LadyFinn

The Royal House of the Netherlands published today the program of the visit

Staatsbezoek Zweden – programma _ Nieuwsbericht _ Het Koninklijk Huis

Translation

Seems like an expected program, especially the focus on green energy and infrastructure. The visit to Vasa is no surprise, given the Dutch involvement in the construction.

It remains to see if the Royal Couple will meet PM Magdalena Andersson or PM Ulf Kristersson during the visit.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Kingen

Seems like an expected program, especially the focus on green energy and infrastructure. The visit to Vasa is no surprise, given the Dutch involvement in the construction.

Even more fitting would be if they would use the Vasaorden like they did earlier for some royal State Visits. But i don't expect it.

Originally Posted by LadyFinn

Vasaorden is under renovation, the renovation will be ready in 2023.
https://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...ml#post2421119
https://gramhir.com/media/2762631126814001165

Thanks. Hopefully it will then be used regulary, because the last time we have seen was at CP victoria's Wedding and before that also not often.

[Kingen]

And today the Royal Swedish Court shared the program for the state visit. Of course it's the same, but also that the Crown Princess Couple will receive the Royal Couple at Stockholm-Arlanda Airport before the start of the cortege from the Royal Mews. As usual the Kings will make a press statement at Lovisa Ulrika's Dining Room after the Official welcome.

https://www.kungahuset.se/arkiv/pres...eackreditering

[doro]

Where can I see the royal decrees on the Dutch/Swedish official gazettes??

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

My guesses are:

HM The King of Sweden
No new Order: he already has the Grand-Cross in the Orde van de Nederlandsche Leeuw.

HM Queen Silvia of Sweden
No new Order: she already has the Grand-Cross in the Orde van de Nederlandsche Leeuw.

HM The King of the Netherlands:
No new Order: he already has the Grand-Cross in the Kungliga Serafimerorden.
Maybe King Carl XVI Gustaf will bestow the chain of said Order on King Willem-Alexander.

HM Queen Máxima:
She already has the Grand-Cross in the Kungliga Nordstjärneorden.
Maybe King Carl XVI Gustaf will bestow the Grand-Cross in the Kungliga Serafimerorden on her.

HRH The Crown Princess:
She has no Dutch Orders yet other than the Wedding Medal 2002 and the Investiture Medal 2013, I think.
Maybe King Willem-Alexander will bestow the Grand-Cross in the Orde van Oranje-Nassau on her.

HRH Prince Daniel:
He has no Dutch Orders yet other than the Investiture Medal 2013, I think.
Maybe King Willem-Alexander will bestow the Grand-Cross in the Orde van Oranje-Nassau on him.

HRH Prince Carl Philip:
He has no Dutch Orders yet other than the Wedding Medal 2002, I think.
Maybe King Willem-Alexander will bestow the Grand-Cross in the Huisorde van Oranje (Kroonorde) on him.

HRH Princess Sofia:
She has no Dutch Orders yet.
Maybe King Willem-Alexander will bestow the Grand-Cross in the Huisorde van Oranje (Kroonorde) on her.

Probably Victoria and Daniel will be awarded with the Order of Orange-Nassau

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by doro

Where can I see the royal decrees on the Dutch/Swedish official gazettes??



Probably Victoria and Daniel will be awarded with the Order of Orange-Nassau

The grantings of royal decorations are usually not published in the State Gazette of the Netherlands. Very strange as all Information should be open. But publications with names are often not accessible via the digital domain because of strict privacy laws: the digital domain is simply uncontrollable in privacy.

The Cabinet of the King (official secretariate) as well the Chancellery of the Netherlands' Orders will know every recipient of every Order and will have every Royal Decree in the archives but do not publish it.

[LadyFinn]

King Carl Gustaf, queen Silvia, Victoria, Daniel and Sofia were today briefed about the state visit by representatives of the Ministry for Foreign Affairs.

The Swedish Royal Court updated to its website about the state visit
The public is welcome to attend the welcome ceremony at the Inner Courtyard. The cortege from The Royal Stables starts at 12.00 and the ceremony at the Inner Courtyard starts at 12.15. Entrance to Inner Courtyard is open at 10.15–11.40. Please arrive in good time to go through the security check upon entry and avoid queuing.

The Swedish and Dutch royal houses are close to each other. The King, Crown Princess and Princess Estelle have, or have had, godparents from the Dutch royal house. The families have met many times during state visits and official visits but also in connection with private gatherings.
Statsbesök från Nederländerna _ Kungahuset

Svensk Damtidning
- Their Majesties are staying in the guest floor at Stockholm Palace during the state visit, says information officer Johan Tegel.
And unlike Letizia and Felipe, Máxima and Willem-Alexander are therefore moving into the Royal Palace with their entire large entourage.
This means that part of the palace is currently being converted into a royal hotel. For the past week, the courtiers have been working on setting up the palace's guest floor: an extremely elegant 11-room suite that also succeeds in the art of being pleasant and comfortable at the same time.
Máxima has stayed here before, for example when she was a guest at Carl Philip and Sofia's wedding. But then she came without her husband and therefore stayed instead of the large master bedroom in the slightly smaller yellow bedroom.
Slottet görs om till hotell – inför Máximas ankomst! _*Svensk Dam

The Dutch royal couple are received in a welcome ceremony by the king and queen on Tuesday. The visit, which lasts three days, will be monitored by police drones with two drones that will monitor the Old Town, Skeppsholmen and parts of Östermalm on Tuesday between 09.00 and 17.00.
Höjd säkerhet när nederländska kungaparet tas emot i Stockholm _ SVT Nyheter

[An Ard Ri]

Its nice that the Dutch Royal guests are being hosted at the Royal Palce.