The Bonaparte Imperial Family

[Russian]

Jean-Christophe is a rather discret

Excuse me, but I can not understand meaning of word "discret".

 

[Sancia]

Excuse me, but I can not understand meaning of word "discret".

Well, he's not seen in many events, he's not at the headlines of the papers. In fact, I'm only hearing about him in Point de Vue. I suppose he must be studying (he's 20).

 

[Russian]

Caroline Bonaparte has the friend or she is married?
The younger brother of Charles Bonaparte Jerome Bonaparte presently is single or he has the girlfriend?

 

[Sancia]

Caroline Bonaparte has the friend or she is married?
The younger brother of Charles Bonaparte Jerome Bonaparte presently is single or he has the girlfriend?

As much as we know, they are still single.

 

[Russian]

Than now is engaged Caroline Bonaparte? What character she has? Excuse me, please, but I have a question. Caroline Bonaparte it is valid not so beautiful or it simply unsuccessfully looks in photos? What does she do in the maximum French aristocratic society if to judge on photos from a site www.capetiens.com?

 

[cesar]

Hi, i was wondering, you guys talk so much about bonapartes vs bourbons, besides wishing for the restoration of Imperial France how do i know that i am a bonapartist.

 

[Benjamin]

I think the question of the First Emperor offsprings is very important for the aspirations of us Bonapartists, personally i feel that since the Death of L'Aiglon at Schonbrum, the House of Bonaparte must realized that they are nominating descendency of Napoleon's brother's, I am a bonapartist and for me the issue of the Emperor descedancy is critical to evaluate our posibilities of restoring Imperial France.

Why would you want to consider restoring the illegitimate descendants of the Emperor when there is a legitimate branch of the Bonaparte family springing from Jerome?

 

[cesar]

Why would you want to consider restoring the illegitimate descendants of the Emperor when there is a legitimate branch of the Bonaparte family springing from Jerome?

Because the bonapartist movement already experienced the failure of one of the First Emperor´s brothers descendants,Napoleon III, besides is a cuestion of marketing, what do you think sells better for people who most probably believe that the House of Bonaparte is nothing more than oportunists and that Republicanism should stay as the ruling tendency in France.
I am not saying that Bonapartism should discard the First Emperor's brothers descendants, just that, we must remind is not the Emperor's direct descendants.
According to the Imperial Succesion Act, the emperor had specify that he didnt want to consider Jerome for the Succesion, all that i am saying is that we must realize that before jumping into conclussions of possible outcomes in the future. It would very different if we talk about direct descendants wether they re legititmal or contrary

 

[Warren]

... It would very different if we talk about direct descendants wether they re legititmal or contrary

And the 'illegimate' descendants who could be classed as Pretenders or claimants to a Bonaparte Restoration are...?

 

[cesar]

Well we know for sure that during his time as Emperor of France, Napoleon held an affair with the polish Comtesse Marie Waleska and there was a son, but that s not the point, i dont want to argue about direct or indirect descendants, all that i am saying is that the people of France see Napoleon as a Warrior, a Hero, probably the Greatest generals of history; i dont think that the see his brothers and sisters like that. I might be wrong of course, but all what you have to do is to look at the rule of Napoleon III, i don t think France sees him just like they see Napoleon I

 

[Benjamin]

The fact is that no one will ever be another Napoleon I, not even his descendants via Count Alexandre Walewski, of which there are a few.

 

[cesar]

Thats right, that s what i think we must realize first, it is an advantage the fact that the House of Bonaparte carries the most outstanding achievements of France as a modern nation, it a disadvantage the fact that there are no direct descendants from the First Emperor.

Prince Napoleon must realize first that, but i think that if monarchy ever returns to France, the House of Bonaparte will give Bourbons a good fight for the Throne.

Does anyone knows if there is "an official Bonpartist internet page"?

 

[Toledo]

There are descendants, just not from his direct marriages. Check out the new Royal Genealogy sub forum on their family charts.
In the hypothetical situation that they were able to get themselves back into the limelight. maybe in the world of politics, I doubt they cold quarrel with the Orleans because the current two young princes Napoleon have Capet blood in them as blue as any other Bourbon or Orleans. They are now family since their mother is a Borbon Two-Sicilies princess.

But I doubt either Borbons, Orleans or Bonapartes get close to turn back time. For that there have to be an out of the ordinary event or political crisis in the country that enables a change in the system. Last time that happened was after WW II, De Gaulle had it in his hands to go either way just like Franco did in Spain, and he choose to go Republic as Franco chose to go Monarchy. Had these pretenders been a little more vocal during the occupation they could have been given a second chance during that chaotic post WW II era.
But that is now water under the bridge, long gone

 

[Benjamin]

Here are some links to photographs of the current Bonapartes:

H.I.H. The Dowager Princess Napoléon with H.R.H. The Comte de Paris and his nephew Charles-Philippe (I think she was at the funeral for H.R.H. the late Duchess of Castro, mother of the Dowager Princess Napoléon's former daughter-in-law, in 2005)

H.I.H. The Dowager Princess Napoléon followed by H.I.H. The Prince Napoléon at some Napoleonic ceremony in 2004

H.I.H. Prince Jérôme Napoléon at the Silver Wedding of T.R.H. The Grand Duke and Grand Duchess of Luxembourg

H.I.H. Prince Jean-Christophe Napoléon with H.I.H. Princess Caroline Napoléon

 

[Benjamin]

According to this press release from the Government of Luxembourg, the Princess Napoléon attended the funeral of Grand Duchess Joséphine-Charlotte. Alix had in 1993 attended (with her late husband) the funeral of the Joséphine-Charlotte's brother, Baudouin.

 

[Russian]

The French Legistimist Case

I have read this document.
As I correct has understood, this document excludes the right of the womans on french throne? Then Beatrice de Bourbon Two Sicilies can not be a heiress of the french throne. Her children too can not be a legal successor of the french kings since they is Bonaparte.

The brother of Napoleon Bonaparte Jerome married princess from the House Wurtemberg. Their son married the Italian princess. Further their successor Victor Napoleon Bonaparte married the Belgian princess who was the daughter of the Belgian king. Charles Napoleon Bonaparte was married Beatrice de Bourbon Two Sicilies. From what family there is his mother Alix de Foresta?

 

[Benjamin]

Alix is the daughter of the late Comte and Comtesse de Foresta.

 

[Russian]

And from what families there are her parents?

 

[Toledo]

I found this http://www.gbnf.com/genealog3/maclaren/html/d0090/I50790.HTM

I'll be back in a second with another link...

I'm back. This one has Alix as a descendant of William the Conqueror, scroll down to the middle:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~conqueror/genealogy_html/i261.html


Something on Clementine, Princess Napoleon

And the Napoleons seem to be as Capets as the Orleans and Bourbons longer than I noticed. On this site the current Napoleon pretenders are descended from King Louis Phillipe of Orleans through their maternal side, the Napoleons (with Alix de Foresta) are listed when you scroll down to reach this number:

2.2.4.2.Louis, Prince Napoléon (1914-1997), m.1949 Alix de Foresta (*1926)
here is the site
Descendants of King Louis Philippe I of the French

 

[Benjamin]

Hi Russian .

Alix's father, Marie Joseph Albéric de Foresta (b. 1895, d. 1987), came from a family that was fiercely loyal to the Boubons. So I imagine that it came as a shock when he found out that his daughter was to marry a Bonaparte prince. Alix's mother was Geneviève Yvonne Berthe Hélène Frédet (b. 1904, d. 1994). Alix also has a younger sister, Hedwige (b. 1935), who married a French marquis.

For more about her family, see here.

 

[Toledo]

Hi Benjamin.
I just added some more in my post about the current Napoleon clan that is as Capet (the original family group the others branched out) as any of the other contending clans like the Valois, Bourbons and Orleans.

 

[Benjamin]

Yes that is a very interesting genealogical connection. Thanks to Victor's marriage the current Bonapartes are related (or, perhaps closer related is a better term) to certain other royal families to which they weren't already due to the Wurttemburg and Savoy princesses marrying into the house.

The marriage of Princess Beatrice to Charles also ties Jean-Christophe and Caroline much closer to the Italian (and I think Spanish) Bourbons. Very fascinating.

 

[Benjamin]

You are right, Russian, French princesses have no succession rights. But also remember that Beatrice comes from the Bourbons of Two-Sicilies not from the Bourbon-Orleans of France so she wouldn't have a claim (well, perhaps very very very remote ) even if women could inherit the French throne. And besides, the Bonapartes are claimants to an imperial throne, so why do they need a royal one .

 

[Russian]

Excuse me, but I have questions. I know, that Charles Bonaparte has the illegitimate daughter from the Corsican woman who has then married it. I know, that Charles Bonaparte has adopted the Vietnamese girl. I have a question. These girls cannot be princesses?

Does Alix de Foresta is lineal descendant of Wilhelm who was norman king and has won England in the eleventh century? But I yet have not understood, it is closer to what royal family or the sovereign house?

Let's strictly not judge the French empress Marie-Louise. Let's not reproach it with treachery Napoleon and dislike and indifference to their unique son. Let's recollect those times of its life. I think Marie-Louise had not the right to dispose of the private life. Absolutely other people solved her destiny. Let's think and there was a destiny of this Austrian princess if did not exist Napoleon. Perhaps, Narie-Louise after achievement of age of consent has married any European prince or the successor of any European throne. Perhaps, we shall never recollect it. And so in 1809 Marie-Louise has married for Napoleon at will of its father, wished to rescue the Austrian empire thus. When Napoleon has fallen in 1814, father Marie-Louise has counted itself free from any obligations to the French emperor and began to divide the inheritance which has remained after Napoleon together with winners of the French emperor. Certainly, it is a pity to me Napoleon II, but let's recollect, what was destiny of Louis XVII. I think, him destiny is not less tragic destiny of the Eaglet.

 

[Russian]

Napoleonic Nobility

Excuse me, please. Probably, I create a theme having the small attitude to royal forums. But I am interested in napoleonic nobility. I know, that the French emperor Napoleon has created new nobility. Thus the new imperial nobility consisted of people of a modest origin or approached to emperor Napoleon. I know, that many of its marshals had nobiliary titles and ranks. Therefore I have questions concerning napoleonic nobility. Their titles were the presents or not? Whether to consider descendants of these noblemen as the present noblemen or not? Any related communications have been established between napoleonic nobility and old pre-revolutionary aristocracy?

 

[Russian]

Hi, Richardsw!
If you are interested in any materials about this imperial family, I think, you look it with pleasure.

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/board,16.0.html
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=6612.195

 

[Princess Robijn]

What is the name of Jeanne Françoise Valliccioni's first Child and what is the name of her father??

 

[Benjamin]

Hmmm...the only child that I know of is Sophie Cathérine, and her father is Charles. Do you know of any other children?

This is all I know about Jeanne Françoise Valliccionni's first marriage: she married Erik Jean Louis Langrais at Casaglione, Corsica on 15 Jul 1978. The marriage was dissolved by divorce on 24 Jul 1990 at Aix-en-Provence. Since they were married for twelve years I find I hard to believe that they didn't have any children, though I haven't seen any evidence that says they did.

 

[Sancia]

Sophie-Catherine is called Catherine by her family (her mother is Jeanne-Françoise Valliccioni). She has an adopted sister, Anh, born on 22th april 1998 in Saïgon.

 

[Princess Robijn]

I was reading about the family and they were talking about a girl before she married, so I guess it could be Sophie-Catherine