Prince Jean Christophe Napoléon and Princess Olympia and Family

[Benjamin]

Does it mean that Charles and Beatrice's marriage was arranged to keep the tradition of the dynasty as in bringing more aristo/royal blood and connections into the mix?

Definitely not an arranged marriage: Charles and Beatrice rather mortified both sets of parents by only contacting a civil ceremony when they wed in 1978. At the time, they both held left wing views, with Beatrice being described as a "militant feminist." Beatrice remained on very good terms with Louis and Alix after the divorce from Charles: it was Beatrice who attended the funeral of Prince Louis in 1997 as the mother of the Head of the Imperial House - Charles opted not to attend as he was told he would not be able to bring his second wife.


Battle rages for the Napoleonic succession | The Independent

Charles Napoléon, 47 ans, fils du prince Louis. «Républicain et démocrate», divorcé, il a été déshérité par son père. Sorti du rang. - Libération

Prince Napoleon alive and well in Paris

Brouilles impériales, actualité Société - Le Point

Imperial France: House Bonaparte news

 

[IlekVad]

Bonapartes

It was not arranged. I think the idea of marrying other nobles/royals is due more to knowing them more (on average) than commoners and other similarities. Some blue bloods are genuinely more keen to marry for blood purity than love, but Jerome and Charles are not like that.
I think their children are much the same in that regard though I've never met them and can only guess.
Josephine herself was not high ranking as was Eugiene. Lucien and Jerome's first wives were common. Lucien's first wife was illiterate but he loved her all the same and married her in defiance of the emperor. Loving commoners even in the face of great adversity is a very Bonaparte trait. Rather or not it furthers their cause I cannot say.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It was not arranged. I think the idea of marrying other nobles/royals is due more to knowing them more (on average) than commoners and other similarities. Some blue bloods are genuinely more keen to marry for blood purity than love, but Jerome and Charles are not like that.
I think their children are much the same in that regard though I've never met them and can only guess.
Josephine herself was not high ranking as was Eugiene. Lucien and Jerome's first wives were common. Lucien's first wife was illiterate but he loved her all the same and married her in defiance of the emperor. Loving commoners even in the face of great adversity is a very Bonaparte trait. Rather or not it furthers their cause I cannot say.

But Joséphine -an aristiocrat- married a commoner. Napoléon and his brothers were commoners. It was in their newly vested dynasty's interest to marry as well as possible to extablish themselves as a respected family in the Almanach de Gotha. Exactly the same was done by the Bernadottes in Sweden, with their strict marriage policy.

 

[RoyalistforLife]

Definitely not an arranged marriage: Charles and Beatrice rather mortified both sets of parents by only contacting a civil ceremony when they wed in 1978. At the time, they both held left wing views, with Beatrice being described as a "militant feminist." Beatrice remained on very good terms with Louis and Alix after the divorce from Charles: it was Beatrice who attended the funeral of Prince Louis in 1997 as the mother of the Head of the Imperial House - Charles opted not to attend as he was told he would not be able to bring his second wife.

Thank you! "Militant feminist"? Wow that's news to me. This family is becoming more and more interesting.
So they only had a civil ceremony. I was trying to find their wedding pic online but there's nothing, unfortunately.

 

[RoyalistforLife]

It was not arranged. I think the idea of marrying other nobles/royals is due more to knowing them more (on average) than commoners and other similarities. Some blue bloods are genuinely more keen to marry for blood purity than love, but Jerome and Charles are not like that.
I think their children are much the same in that regard though I've never met them and can only guess.
Josephine herself was not high ranking as was Eugiene. Lucien and Jerome's first wives were common. Lucien's first wife was illiterate but he loved her all the same and married her in defiance of the emperor. Loving commoners even in the face of great adversity is a very Bonaparte trait. Rather or not it furthers their cause I cannot say.

Thanks a lot for this info. Yes, I understand that those are their primary circles. But JC has been studying and working abroad and hence has a lot of exposure to all sorts of people. I hope he will choose someone for himself, not for the dynasty.

 

[maria-olivia]

He is supported by his grandmother the old Dowager Princess Napoleon.

 

[RoyalistforLife]

He is supported by his grandmother the old Dowager Princess Napoleon.

what sort of support by the Dowager Princess do you mean?

 

[Nico]

He is supported by his grandmother the old Dowager Princess Napoleon.

Very true ! And when by any chance you have a nice chitchat with the Princess Napoléon about "the Prince", it's very clear in her mind that we are talking about Jean-Christophe, not her son...

 

[JR76]

The Buonapartes were in fact members of an old Tuscan noble family incorporated into the French nobility. Louis XV issued an edict in april 1770 "whereby all Corsicans who can prove their possession of nobility for two hundred years are admitted into the French nobility with the enjoyment of all its privileges". Carlo Buonaparte made the application and it was approved 13th of September of 1771.
That said Josephine was of a totally different social standing than her husband Napoleon. The former a member of an old, prominent family of courtiers and the other a member of the petty nobility.

 

[IlekVad]

Bonapartes

I wouldn't define the Bonapartes, or rather in that age Buonaparte, as being "petty" nobility. Carlo was Corsica's representative in the court of King Louis and before Corsica was incorporated into France they were in the Italian courts and councils. They were low ranking to be sure, but not petty.
Joseph would've been higher in status than Napoleon with him being the older brother, but Napoleon strove for power and succeeded. At the time of their religious marriage Napoleon's status was much higher than Josephine's.

 

[JR76]

I wouldn't define the Bonapartes, or rather in that age Buonaparte, as being "petty" nobility. Carlo was Corsica's representative in the court of King Louis and before Corsica was incorporated into France they were in the Italian courts and councils. They were low ranking to be sure, but not petty.
Joseph would've been higher in status than Napoleon with him being the older brother, but Napoleon strove for power and succeeded. At the time of their religious marriage Napoleon's status was much higher than Josephine's.

The term petty nobility is just another way to say lower, untitled nobility.
According to the views of the French nobility at the time I would say that the widow of a Vicomte Beuharnais, herself a member of the ancient House of Tascher, was more prominent than a general of noble Corsican descent.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The term petty nobility is just another way to say lower, untitled nobility.
According to the views of the French nobility at the time I would say that the widow of a Vicomte Beuharnais herself a member of the ancient House of Tascher was more prominent than a general of noble Corsican descent.

Yes, I have understood that especially anciennity is important in blue blooded circles.

Let us use the example of the Southern-Netherlands (now Belgian) comital family De Lannoy, a prestigious family with an Nobility Charter from the 13th C. This means that a De Lannoy often is then seen as "more prestigious" than a family with a higher rank, but with a Nobility Charter just from the 20th C.

The nobility of the Tascher de La Pagerie family (Joséphine) has far more anciennity than the higher ranked but brand new acquired noble titles of Napoléon Bonaparte.

 

[maria-olivia]

The last Bonaparte was HRH Princess Georges of Greece.

 

[JR76]

The last Bonaparte was HRH Princess Georges of Greece.

I think she said that "I'm the last Bonaparte. My Imperial cousins are just Napoleons" Fascinating woman.
We're way off topic aren't we ?

 

[maria-olivia]

yes , a bit but what a destiny ! ( the Blanc casino of Monte Carlo and Freud) !
back to the thread! kind regards JR76 from Maria Olivia.

 

[RoyalistforLife]

I hope it won't be off topic to ask about the work of Princess Beatrice - does she work? has she ever worked? where does she live? also, does the family spend a lot of time together? what are C and JC relationships with Prince Charles?

 

[JR76]

I hope it won't be off topic to ask about the work of Princess Beatrice - does she work? has she ever worked? where does she live? also, does the family spend a lot of time together? what are C and JC relationships with Prince Charles?

I have no idea actually but she often turns up on the Instagram on the branch of the House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies led by her brother The Duke of Castro. Often in curcumstances involving The Sacred Military Constantinian Order of Saint George of which she is Grand Prefect and over which her brother claims to be sovereign.

If I remember it correctly Jean-Cristophe was the sponsor of his cousin Maria-Carolina of Bourbon-Two Sicilies at her confirmation.

Charles let it be known in Point de Vue in 1997 that "there will never be conflict between us" and as far as I know there hasnt been any public signs of conflict so hopefully the family members is at peace with each other.
If theres anything the Bonapartes have been good at its family feuds.

 

[Benjamin]

I hope it won't be off topic to ask about the work of Princess Beatrice - does she work? has she ever worked? where does she live? also, does the family spend a lot of time together? what are C and JC relationships with Prince Charles?

When she was younger, she worked as a press attachée. In recent years, she co-authored a book entitled Votre Mariage Royal with Cyrille Boulay. She lived in France at Neuilly-sur-Seine...not sure if the address is current anymore.

 

[RoyalistforLife]

Thank you, JR76 and Benjamin!

 

[maria-olivia]

His Mother Beatrice and his Aunt Anne , both divorcees, often attend important events in Paris.

 

[RoyalistforLife]

His Mother Beatrice and his Aunt Anne , both divorcees, often attend important events in Paris.

What kind of events? political? Charity? diplomatic?
As far as I understand, Princess Beatrice lives in Paris. Where does the Dowager Princess live?

 

[IlekVad]

Beatrice

RoyalistForLife,

From what I understand most of it is charity and some historical society work especially for the Constantian Order.

The Princess Dowager, if we are talking about Princess Alix, lives mostly in Switzerland at an old family estate.

 

[RoyalistforLife]

RoyalistForLife,

From what I understand most of it is charity and some historical society work especially for the Constantian Order.

The Princess Dowager, if we are talking about Princess Alix, lives mostly in Switzerland at an old family estate.

Thank you for the information

 

[IlekVad]

You're welcome RoyalistforLife.


I do hope that Princess Alix lives long and in good health. Her grandson may be Bonaparte by blood, but his grandmere is the true representative across the globe.
Her grandson is very busy and while the legacy of Napoleon is historical it demands respect and hundreds of thousands of people are in wonder over the French emperor. Who will be the representative to the historical societies when the Princess is no longer able to?

 

[RoyalistforLife]

You're welcome RoyalistforLife.


I do hope that Princess Alix lives long and in good health. Her grandson may be Bonaparte by blood, but his grandmere is the true representative across the globe.
Her grandson is very busy and while the legacy of Napoleon is historical it demands respect and hundreds of thousands of people are in wonder over the French emperor. Who will be the representative to the historical societies when the Princess is no longer able to?

I do hope so too. She is a remarkable woman and I wish her many more years in good health.

Well, JC will marry at some point so let's hope the woman will be a beautiful representative of the family, and may I add not as numbingly boring as his current girlfriend (Olympia?). I am really sorry for saying this, just my opinion, she might be the best person in the world, she just doesn't have a good presence, in my view.

I am sad to see that Prince Charles's current wife is not seen at all - she seems not to be interested in being a representative for them? Or she isn't allowed?

 

[IlekVad]

Princess Alix is indeed truly remarkable. If she were Empress legally she would make an excellent empress.

I thought JC and Olympia were broken up? Je ne sais pas.
I know Prince Charles didn't attend the funeral of his father because he wasn't allowed to bring his wife. Louis apparently hated Charles' second marriage that much. Which seems harsh.
Her lack of presence may be due to not being allowed or she doesn't care. It seems strange that Princess Beatrice attends the Invalides event, but not Caroline or Sophie (as far as I know).

 

[Benjamin]

Here are some images of Prince Jean-Christophe's mother and paternal grandmother over the years: one can see that the Dowager Princess Napoléon and Princess Béatrice of Bourbon-Two Sicilies have remained close.

Although Prince Charles Napoléon has been politically active, socially he does not seem to mix in the same circles as his mother or first wife. His siblings, especially his sisters, have also lived very discreet lives. Princess Catherine Napoléon's first marriage to a nephew of Queen Paola of Belgium was a huge Gotha event.

Princess Catherine's second husband died in 2017; they had two daughters together. Princess Laure was widowed in 2009; she and Monsieur Lecomte had one son.

 

[IlekVad]

I did not know that about the husbands of Catherine and Laure. I really hope they are doing well. Even if tension remains between Charles and Alix, I'm glad that JC and his father have long since reconciled.
LeMonde said that Charles sometimes leads tours through the 70? cities were Napoleon went through and left a mark. Sounds like an awesome vacation. I also plan to visit France for the Bicentenary of Napoelon's death. Does anyone know if France will plan anything on a grand scale in honor of the event?

 

[RoyalistforLife]

Princess Alix is indeed truly remarkable. If she were Empress legally she would make an excellent empress.

Yes! Totally agree! She is so regal, I can hardly name any reigning royals who are!

I thought JC and Olympia were broken up? Je ne sais pas.

I don't know either. I think last year they were still together at some functions?

I know Prince Charles didn't attend the funeral of his father because he wasn't allowed to bring his wife. Louis apparently hated Charles' second marriage that much. Which seems harsh.

Wonder what's to hate about that? Divorces happen and it's not just one person's fault. Is it because she doesn't belong to the nobility?

Her lack of presence may be due to not being allowed or she doesn't care. It seems strange that Princess Beatrice attends the Invalides event, but not Caroline or Sophie (as far as I know)

That's interesting indeed that Princess Beatrice attends such events but she's the mother of the head of the house who works abroad and seems to be building a career so quite busy. But strange that the other members don't participate.

 

[RoyalistforLife]

Here are some images of Prince Jean-Christophe's mother and paternal grandmother over the years: one can see that the Dowager Princess Napoléon and Princess Béatrice of Bourbon-Two Sicilies have remained close.

Although Prince Charles Napoléon has been politically active, socially he does not seem to mix in the same circles as his mother or first wife. His siblings, especially his sisters, have also lived very discreet lives. Princess Catherine Napoléon's first marriage to a nephew of Queen Paola of Belgium was a huge Gotha event.

Princess Catherine's second husband died in 2017; they had two daughters together. Princess Laure was widowed in 2009; she and Monsieur Lecomte had one son.

Thank you for the photographs and for the information on Charles and the other members. Princesses Alix and Beatrice are really beautiful and they are aging so gracefully. No surprise JC seems to be a very stable and regal man - he has been under the influence of these two great women.