General News about the Danish Royal Family Part 3: November 2015 - August 2021

[ricarda]

My guess is we will see more state visits carried out by the Queen and the Crown Prince together. So there will be need for a Rigsforstander. And with both Joachim and Benedikte not living in Denmark - at least in theory regarding Benedikte - and Benedikte already being 75 , it seems sensible to have a third option, the Crown Princess.

Mbruno
Does the CP now have precedence over Prince Joachim and Princess Benedikte to serve as regent ad interim ?

My guess is that the precedence among those who can be rigsforstander in theory stays as it was until now. First Joachim - if he happens to be in the counry, then Benedikte. Because they already have experience. If both are not in DK which is very likely, CP Mary will step in.
This IMO will change when Frederik becomes king.

 

[Nordic]

My guess is that the precedence among those who can be rigsforstander in theory stays as it was until now. First Joachim - if he happens to be in the counry, then Benedikte.,

How will we know if the precedence stays the same or if it changes?

Lets say that Mary is regent, say, two months from now. How do we know if she was the first one on the list because the precedence has been changed or the last one because Joachim and Benedikte weren't available?

It's not like the calendar will say "HRH The Crown Princess is rigsforstander in the period xxxx, because PJ and PB are not available"

Unless, of course, the press asks the court and they give a direct reply.

 

[JR76]

How will we know if the precedence stays the same or if it changes?

Lets say that Mary is regent, say, two months from now. How do we know if she was the first one on the list because the precedence has been changed or the last one because Joachim and Benedikte weren't available?

It's not like the calendar will say "HRH The Crown Princess is rigsforstander in the period xxxx, because PJ and PB are not available"

Unless, of course, the press asks the court and they give a direct reply.

I don't know how significant it is but the profile of Prince Joachim on Kongehuset.dk explicitly states that he IS the rigsforstander when The Queen and The Crown Prince is out of the country while the profile of Princess Benedikte doesn't even mention the possibility. It could either be sloppiness or a clear signal that up to now Prince Joachim has been of a higher precedence in this matter than his aunt. To my knowledge Benedikte has only ever been a rigsforstander when Joachim hasn't been available so it certainly seems like that's the case.

 

[Nordic]

Prince Joachim has been of a higher precedence in this matter than his aunt. To my knowledge Benedikte has only ever been a rigsforstander when Joachim hasn't been available so it certainly seems like that's the case.

That has been the case up until now, yes, but the question was the possible change of precedence from now on.

 

[MARG]

I wonder if we will see QM and PF sharing more engagements as insurance that Fred knows every single little bit and tittle of her duties as Queen Regnant of Denmark. Mary also gets to learn how to cope with the State and the Crown Princely family.

I do not know her position on abdication but we are all aware that the spirit is willing but the flesh? Well we know she suffers dreadful pain.

Whatever she plans, be it semi-retirement or abdication, she is ensuring that crown Prince Frederick and Crown Princess Mary are more than ready for what lies ahead.

 

[JR76]

I do not know her position on abdication but we are all aware that the spirit is willing but the flesh? Well we know she suffers dreadful pain.

The Queen has on numerous occasions, last time only a week ago, stated that she's in it for life and wouldn't even consider abdicating. Regarding her pain she seems to be in excellent health after some operations a few years ago. She definitely seems to walk better now than before.
We can already see her son and daughter-in-law take on much heavier duties and they almost run the incoming state visits themselves so I'd say that instead of abdicating she'll just continue in handing over her duties to them and if she gets ill have Frederik appointed regent.

 

[iceflower]

During an engagement this morning, Crown Princess Mary was asked about yesterday's announcement that she can from now on function as regent:

"It is a great honor and I am deeply touched by the confidence that has been shown to me":

 

[Hans-Rickard]

I wonder if we will see QM and PF sharing more engagements as insurance that Fred knows every single little bit and tittle of her duties as Queen Regnant of Denmark. Mary also gets to learn how to cope with the State and the Crown Princely family.

I do not know her position on abdication but we are all aware that the spirit is willing but the flesh? Well we know she suffers dreadful pain.

Whatever she plans, be it semi-retirement or abdication, she is ensuring that crown Prince Frederick and Crown Princess Mary are more than ready for what lies ahead.

QMII is the most outspoken monarch regarding abdications. She sees her position as a job for life.

Recently she actually said that she sees it as a job for life unless a serious health issue would force her to stop.
Likely with Prince Henrik's dementia as a painful reminder that the mental health can also force you to stop at some point even if your physical health is still good.

She and The Crown Prince will likely continue to share the duties. The Crown Prince already has a lot of the duties that doesn't require the monarch's presence, and could easily take over the throne tomorrow should it become necessary.

 

[Muhler]

My guess is we will see more state visits carried out by the Queen and the Crown Prince together. So there will be need for a Rigsforstander. And with both Joachim and Benedikte not living in Denmark - at least in theory regarding Benedikte - and Benedikte already being 75 , it seems sensible to have a third option, the Crown Princess.


My guess is that the precedence among those who can be rigsforstander in theory stays as it was until now. First Joachim - if he happens to be in the counry, then Benedikte. Because they already have experience. If both are not in DK which is very likely, CP Mary will step in.
This IMO will change when Frederik becomes king.

That's a very good point.
QMII will be in need of a "consort" when on state-visits. It's hard enough as it is, but even harder on your own. And indeed, who better than Frederik?

Benedikte is the perfect Princess. She has always known when to step aside and do it gracefully, with dignity and no hard feelings. She will step aside for Mary as well, if that is the appropriate thing to do.
Joachim, well, by this time next year, we will know...

The news has been well-received here in DK. There is seemingly full confidence in Mary being able to fulfill that role - it's after all head of state, we are talking about! In theory she could be head of state for months in some of the worst case scenarios.
It's hardly talk of the town, but when talked about it's my impression people think it's deserved, appropriate and have faith in her.

The royal experts seem to agree that this is a part of a modernization of the DRF, including gender equality. - Personally I don't buy that one.
I firmly believe Mary was vetted and approved as Rigsforstander, because she was found competent (in DK competent is a very positive term) and because the politicians in particular have full confidence in her.
PH, while very popular for extended periods, was a bit, how to put it, unsteady in regards to how he defined his role and even more crucial IMO, while people had confidence in him as consort (most of the time) I doubt very much that feeling was extended to include him in the role as acting head of state.

I think this is not a question about modernization, but of ice-cold practicality.

Daily Mail has the story as well:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...en-Denmark-regent-Danish-royal-Margrethe.html

QMII is the most outspoken monarch regarding abdications. She sees her position as a job for life.

Recently she actually said that she sees it as a job for life unless a serious health issue would force her to stop.
Likely with Prince Henrik's dementia as a painful reminder that the mental health can also force you to stop at some point even if your physical health is still good.

She and The Crown Prince will likely continue to share the duties. The Crown Prince already has a lot of the duties that doesn't require the monarch's presence, and could easily take over the throne tomorrow should it become necessary.

In the latest interview with her, she was again asked about abdicating. And she did indeed emphasize that only her health would lead to her abdicating.
However, if she is planning to abdicate, she would naturally deny that until the very moment it is announced. Otherwise it would be a huge sensation! And people would basically only wait for her to abdicate.

But, if she does have plans about abdicating while her health is still good, she could easily have dodged that question.

And she has left a door half-open: When does her health prevents her from fulfilling her task as monarch? That's basically up to the doctors - or QMII herself...

 

[Hans-Rickard]

In the latest interview with her, she was again asked about abdicating. And she did indeed emphasize that only her health would lead to her abdicating.
However, if she is planning to abdicate, she would naturally deny that until the very moment it is announced. Otherwise it would be a huge sensation! And people would basically only wait for her to abdicate.

But, if she does have plans about abdicating while her health is still good, she could easily have dodged that question.

And she has left a door half-open: When does her health prevents her from fulfilling her task as monarch? That's basically up to the doctors - or QMII herself...

That's true. As far as i know, she has never left that door open, that she would abdicate if she becomes in very bad health instead of just appointing Frederik "Regent" for the time being....

Perhaps PH's dementia and death has had her reconsider what to do in that case ? ? Only QMII knows....

 

[Stefan]

That's a very good point.
QMII will be in need of a "consort" when on state-visits. It's hard enough as it is, but even harder on your own. And indeed, who better than Frederik?
l

That's true but for example King Olaf of Norway always went alone on State Visits. Also then Queen Beatrix made some alone and other she was accompanieby both Willem-Alexander and Máxima which i find the better solution then QMII and Frederik.

 

[JR76]

PH, while very popular for extended periods, was a bit, how to put it, unsteady in regards to how he defined his role and even crucial IMO, while people had confidence in him as consort (most of the time) I doubt very much that feeling was extended to include him in the role as acting head of state.

I agree. Even if he became increasingly popular with the Danes it was always a bit like the naughty uncle you have fun with at parties. Also by the time he was about the same age as Queen Ingrid when she was made rigsforstander he was running of to France to sulk something that IMO disqualified him forever.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The royal experts seem to agree that this is a part of a modernization of the DRF, including gender equality.

What are the royal experts referring to? I can't see what is new regarding gender equality, seeing as other women (Princess Benedikte and Queen Ingrid) have acted as Rigsforstander and the only man to have been in the same position as Crown Princess Mary (that is, Prince Henrik) never did.

 

[Muhler]

What are the royal experts referring to? I can't see what is new regarding gender equality, seeing as other women (Princess Benedikte and Queen Ingrid) have acted as Rigsforstander and the only man to have been in the same position as Crown Princess Mary (that is, Prince Henrik) never did.

You are right.
And like I mentioned, I don't agree with them.

Also because Mary is "merely" a crown princess, while PH after all was a consort.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

You are right.
And like I mentioned, I don't agree with them.

Also because Mary is "merely" a crown princess, while PH after all was a consort.

That is also true. I understand you don't agree with them, I am simply curious about why the royal experts see it in that manner.

 

[Muhler]

That is also true. I understand you don't agree with them, I am simply curious about why the royal experts see it in that manner.

Okay, I see. ?
Sorry that I haven't got time to translate this, but Google translate has become very good now, so perhaps it will make sense anyway.

Here are two articles from BT found in a hurry. But you can find similar articles in Berlingske.dk, DR.dk and TV2.dk.
https://www.bt.dk/royale/eksperter-derfor-blev-kronprinsesse-mary-valgt-og-ikke-prins-henrik
https://www.bt.dk/royale/kronprinsesse-mary-er-blevet-rigsforstander

 

[Somebody]

In combination with the recent announcement about the children's international schooling experience and Muhler's suggestions in that topic, this move could have very well been made to prepare for a (soft) handover of sovereign duties.

With Joachim and Marie being shipped away (and not looking that likely to return), (Frederik &) Mary taking a three month family break and the queen's upcoming 80th birthday right afterwards, Mary's appointment as potential rigsforstander would come in handy when it's Frederik who is the official regent (or king) in the near future. In that way, his mother already paved the way for him to have his wife fill in for him.

 

[wartenberg7]

You are right.
And like I mentioned, I don't agree with them.

Also because Mary is "merely" a crown princess, while PH after all was a consort.

I think the Crown Princesse´s character and personality is much more balanced and mature (and dignified!) than the late Prince´s one - obviously even the RF has recognized that.
This decision has nothing to do with the current position of the certain person in the RF (in that sense you could argue, Mary will be a Queen while H. was a "mere" P. consort), but with his/ her capability to perform the task (Benedikte or Joachim are not consorts nor will they ever be, still they were granted the job!).

 

[Mbruno]

That's true. As far as i know, she has never left that door open, that she would abdicate if she becomes in very bad health instead of just appointing Frederik "Regent" for the time being....

Perhaps PH's dementia and death has had her reconsider what to do in that case ? ? Only QMII knows....

QMII has always been adamant about the position of Queen being a "job for life". In connection with that, she also often mentioned her own father, who stayed on the job until he passed away, implying that is what she plans to do too. I find those statements very signifcant, so I would be surprised if she changed her mind and decided to abdicate.


There is of course a legal alternative to abdication if the Queen finds herself in poor health, and that is to make Frederik a permanent regent. In Sweden, the Instrument of Government has a provision under which, if the King is prevented from exercising his duties for more than six consecutive months, the Parliament, upon being officially notified of that fact by the government, can decide if the King is deemed to have abdicated, which would in practice trigger the succession. I don't think Denmark has any similar legal provision though (the Danish experts may clarify that), so , in principle, there doesn't seem to be any upper limit on the duration of a regency.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Its a great honour on the Crown Princess with this appointment.

 

[Somebody]

There is of course a legal alternative to abdication if the Queen finds herself in poor health, and that is to make Frederik a permanent regent. In Sweden, the Instrument of Government has a provision under which, if the King is prevented from exercising his duties for more than six consecutive months, the Parliament, upon being officially notified of that fact by the government, can decide if the King is deemed to have abdicated, which would in practice trigger the succession. I don't think Denmark has any similar legal provision though (the Danish experts may clarify that), so , in principle, there doesn't seem to be any upper limit on the duration of a regency.

Liechtenstein has had a regent for 15 years now, while his father remains head of state as 'fürst'. An important difference however might be that the role of the fürst/regent is far more 'involved' in Liechtenstein's day-to-day business and less ceremonial. But at least, there are examples of lengthy regencies in Europe.

I think the Crown Princesse´s character and personality is much more balanced and mature (and dignified!) than the late Prince´s one - obviously even the RF has recognized that.
This decision has nothing to do with the current position of the certain person in the RF (in that sense you could argue, Mary will be a Queen while H. was a "mere" P. consort), but with his/ her capability to perform the task (Benedikte or Joachim are not consorts nor will they ever be, still they were granted the job!).

I'd say that Joachim and Benedikte being in the line of succession was their main qualifying factor; and therefore makes more sense to me than allowing a foreign born married in member of the family to function as head of state. Theoretically, they could become the Sovereign themselves, something that a consort cannot.

I agree with you that her character and personality -and her behavior over the last 15+ years- surely play into this decision.

 

[Muhler]

Do you remember Jim Lyngvild?
The designer who made the busts of QMII, Frederik and Mary and the portrait book of all the queens and kings of Denmark.

He has gotten a personal Christmas card from the DRF, and as the super-royalist he is, he is more than delighted!
He will however not disclose what the card said.

https://www.facebook.com/jim.lyngvild/posts/2699039943498988

 

[Muhler]

This is the yearly DRF review by DR1: https://www.dr.dk/drtv/program/aaret-i-kongehuset_158476
Click the red "afspil nu" to view.

Not sure if you can see it outside DK and lasting 1½ hour it's a bit too long for me to have time to write a running commentary, but enjoy the clips.

 

[gerry]

This is the yearly DRF review by DR1: https://www.dr.dk/drtv/program/aaret-i-kongehuset_158476
Click the red "afspil nu" to view.

Not sure if you can see it outside DK and lasting 1½ hour it's a bit too long for me to have time to write a running commentary, but enjoy the clips.

Mange tak Muhler but DR1 has used geoblocking to keep non Danes from enjoying this particular product.

Do you remember Jim Lyngvild?
The designer who made the busts of QMII, Frederik and Mary and the portrait book of all the queens and kings of Denmark.

He has gotten a personal Christmas card from the DRF, and as the super-royalist he is, he is more than delighted!
He will however not disclose what the card said.

https://www.facebook.com/jim.lyngvild/posts/2699039943498988

I love how the card continues the Nisse theme of the DRF instagram posts this month. Once again, the Queen's creativity shines into our livingrooms and inspires us all to follow her examplel I will also be making some Nisse for my Christmas table for sure.

 

[wartenberg7]

I'd say that Joachim and Benedikte being in the line of succession was their main qualifying factor; and therefore makes more sense to me than allowing a foreign born married in member of the family to function as head of state. Theoretically, they could become the Sovereign themselves, something that a consort cannot.

I agree with you that her character and personality -and her behavior over the last 15+ years- surely play into this decision.

Theoratically, may be. But in reality we all know this will never happen. And the CPss as the wife of the future King is in reality much closer to the throne than B. or J.! (would you argue that the sons of late Prince Knut were better qualified to be members of the danish privy council than Queen Ingrid, which originally was a "foreigner", too...?!).
When you state the 2 persons we talk about are better "qualified" to act as Head of state- which they, other than the late Prince Henrik, did in the past, than the current CPcss only because they are "royal born" and as consequence automatically fit for the job, I cannot agree on that at all.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

Do you remember Jim Lyngvild?
The designer who made the busts of QMII, Frederik and Mary and the portrait book of all the queens and kings of Denmark.

He has gotten a personal Christmas card from the DRF, and as the super-royalist he is, he is more than delighted!
He will however not disclose what the card said.

https://www.facebook.com/jim.lyngvild/posts/2699039943498988

Now that's one happy man! ? It's lovely that the DRF sent him a personal card for Christmas.

 

[Muhler]

Some of you may recall Søren Haslund Christensen, former Chief of Court from 1989-2003.

https://www.bt.dk/samfund/kongehuse...t-af-frygtelig-sygdom-det-er-svaert-at-opleve

He had a very defining influence on Joachim and Frederik when they were young, in particular Frederik.
He was a confidante, counselor, role-model and at times a substitute parent.

Today at age 86 he is so severely affected by Alzheimer that he is basically lost to the world. He is now residing in a nursing home, because in 2016 his wife for 50 years had to give up, she no longer had the strength to care for her husband.

A sad end for a good man. May he find peace before the worst stages of Alzheimer sets in.

 

[polyesco]

The similarities between Crown Prince Frederik and his grandfather King Frederik IX
https://www.dr.dk/tjenester/viden/2...S-HrruDO7cBKeWn7PPKJlOF9jATaBPtjg3jciPK6sGjxA

 

[Muhler]

https://www.a4nu.dk/artikel/kongehuset-skrider-ind-vil-forhindre-salg

Two Danish orders have been put up for sale on eBay, leading the court to take actions.
These two orders belongs to Ordenskapitlet i.e. the department under the DRF that administer orders that have are or about to be presented, as well as those that are returned upon the death of the recipients.
As these orders are deemed to be genuine the court has contacted eBay demanding the auction being stopped.

Orders over a certain level belongs to Ordenskapitlet, the Master of the Order being the at any time sitting Monarch. When they are presented it is with the condition that they are returned upon the death of recipient.
Orders under a certain level is the property of the recipient and can as such be freely inherited, given away or sold as the owner see fit.

 

[ashelen]

https://www.a4nu.dk/artikel/kongehuset-skrider-ind-vil-forhindre-salg

Two Danish orders have been put up for sale on eBay, leading the court to take actions.
These two orders belongs to Ordenskapitlet i.e. the department under the DRF that administer orders that have are or about to be presented, as well as those that are returned upon the death of the recipients.
As these orders are deemed to be genuine the court has contacted eBay demanding the auction being stopped.

Orders over a certain level belongs to Ordenskapitlet, the Master of the Order being the at any time sitting Monarch. When they are presented it is with the condition that they are returned upon the death of recipient.
Orders under a certain level is the property of the recipient and can as such be freely inherited, given away or sold as the owner see fit.

Wow, some still in ebay! hummm should I get one?