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  #381  
Old 08-05-2020, 01:56 PM
Archduchess Zelia's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
It seems that it is mostly Marie who is frustrated by this (longer) assignment in Paris. While Joachim emphasizes that he hadn't heard about the course but that it was really worthwhile and this new posting was a great place to put what he had learned AND his acquired contacts to good use - even though he hadn't had the desire to move to Paris previously, Marie was stressing that it was 'really important' to understand that it wasn't their decision; that she wasn't happy about being a housewife taking care of her husband and children and thought it was time for her now... and that she much rather wanted to be in Denmark.

So, either Joachim is much more diplomatic or he is quite fine with how things turned out; he might have enjoyed the course (after all he is a military men; it isn't for no reason that he hoped his sons would follow in his footsteps) and is/was probably also looking forward to his new post that is a great fit for him - and it's great that his younger children spend a few years in France becoming fluent in the language and understanding their 'other' cultural background - next to the Danish one.
And I understand her frustration. I just don't understand the way they have decided to voice and/or frame it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Sorry, Joachim could not decline the course nor the job as attache.

I have already explained why he couldn't decline the course.
And as for the job. The Danish (and French) military is not going to waste an expensive course on Joachim only for him to say: That sure was interesting! Now, I'm going back to my old desk-job.
Not unless he wants his next job to be a three year assignment to an igloo 200 km north of the Thule Base counting icebergs.
Followed by a job running the Office for Discarded Sandbags.

Saying no, would mean public scorn,
Most annoyed superiors in the military.
Losing face. He would be looked down upon by everyone in the military. Not least those who have served abroad. (Pretty much everybody.)
Having his fellow officers reproach him for ruining their opportunities to attend that course in the future.
And it's goodbye to his military career.
You said that he couldn't turn down a job he's specifically trained for. Does the course he undertook at École Militaire make him qualified? Yes, but it isn't required to become a military attaché in France. If Joachim had turned it down, one of the 5 people who applied for and actually wanted the job would've gotten it.

The MoD itself has confirmed that they weren't aware of the interest from the DRF until some time into the application process which implies that Joachim wasn't a part of their plans to begin with. However, even if he had been, there's no way J&M wouldn't have been informed about it which would beg the question, why voice your dissatisfaction publicly now if deployment has been the expectation from the beginning. Why not when they were sent to France in the first place? Why not when they were questioned about the apanage last year?

The suggestion that Joachim's military career would somehow be over for turning down one (1) job offer sounds absolutely preposterous to me and should that truly be the case, the state of our military is even worse than I thought, but hey, I'm not in the military so I'm not qualified to contest that. Although I would still argue that he wouldn't offend anyone by turning the position down that they haven't now offended with this interview. As for "public scorn"? If he'd declined the job as an attaché, the public wouldn't even know that position had been offered to him.

I think it's slightly misleading that you present your own speculations as facts. Because Joachim could have declined the position. You even say as much yourself by not listing anything that would've prevented him from declining the offer in practice.
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  #382  
Old 08-05-2020, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/politik/pr...ttache-i-paris

"Der vil som noget nyt også blive udpeget en assisterende forsvarsattaché til at bistå prins Joachim"

"As something new, an assistant defense attaché will also be appointed to assist Prince Joachim"

Is "assistant defense attaché" the same as an adjutant then, if this is only the second embassy to have one and the title is "assisterende forsvarsattaché"?
No, but the assistant can function as an adjutant.
It happens from time to time.

Some years ago, a member of the DRF visited the NATO HQ IIRC.
There a high ranking officers found himself drafted as an adjutant. He had put his adjutants cord on his left shoulder (as an ordinary adjutant), rather than the right shoulder as is correct when it's the head of state or a member of the DRF.
There will be times when Joachim will take part in ceremonies (14th July for example) where it would be normal and appropriate for a brigadier (and Prince) to be accompanied by an adjutant. (The most convenient being his assistant.)
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  #383  
Old 08-05-2020, 02:24 PM
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All this mindless speculation...
  #384  
Old 08-05-2020, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
No, but the assistant can function as an adjutant.
It happens from time to time.
Thanks, that's what I thought it said. Joachim is the defense attaché but there's also an assistant defense attaché. Two to do the job.
  #385  
Old 08-05-2020, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
And I understand her frustration. I just don't understand the way they have decided to voice and/or frame it.



You said that he couldn't turn down a job he's specifically trained for. Does the course he undertook at École Militaire make him qualified? Yes, but it isn't required to become a military attaché in France. If Joachim had turned it down, one of the 5 people who applied for and actually wanted the job would've gotten it.

The MoD itself has confirmed that they weren't aware of the interest from the DRF until some time into the application process which implies that Joachim wasn't a part of their plans to begin with. However, even if he had been, there's no way J&M wouldn't have been informed about it which would beg the question, why voice your dissatisfaction publicly now if deployment has been the expectation from the beginning. Why not when they were sent to France in the first place? Why not when they were questioned about the apanage last year?

The suggestion that Joachim's military career would somehow be over for turning down one (1) job offer sounds absolutely preposterous to me and should that truly be the case, the state of our military is even worse than I thought, but hey, I'm not in the military so I'm not qualified to contest that. Although I would still argue that he wouldn't offend anyone by turning the position down that they haven't now offended with this interview. As for "public scorn"? If he'd declined the job as an attaché, the public wouldn't even know that position had been offered to him.

I think it's slightly misleading that you present your own speculations as facts. Because Joachim could have declined the position. You even say as much yourself by not listing anything that would've prevented him from declining the offer in practice.
I think I have on several occasions indicated that it is my opinion I'm stating and not being able to look into the heads of QMII; J&M, the top brass in the military, it can hardly be much more than speculations - which I have stated several times as well.
As such I have offered a number explanations in answer to a number of questions that have been raised.

And you are quite right, you are not in the military, nor have you ever been in the military. I have however. So there are a number of things regarding the mindset of career soldiers where I believe I can speak with some authority.
You are of course free to dismiss all the arguments I have presented as preposterous and even laughable. - I do not find that surprising at all.

I do not recall having read that the Ministry of Defense was ignorant of Joachim's candidacy. As far as I understand Joachim was approached by the Ministry of Defense. But perhaps your mean the Defense Command?

If you as a colonel turn down a posting that has been pretty much tailor made for you, without a very good reason. You won't get a second chance.
And that's just not the military that applies for.
I doubt very much you will buy that, so be it. I will not waste time repeating ad nauseam the same reasoning over and over and over again.

I do not share your opinion that the public would have remained ignorant that Joachim had been offered this posting, should ha have declined. Nor am I under any illusion at to what angling some papers in particular and certain segments of the population in general would have thought about that. - Words like workshy and inept springs to mind.
  #386  
Old 08-05-2020, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I think I have on several occasions indicated that it is my opinion I'm stating and not being able to look into the heads of QMII; J&M, the top brass in the military, it can hardly be much more than speculations - which I have stated several times as well.
As such I have offered a number explanations in answer to a number of questions that have been raised.

And you are quite right, you are not in the military, nor have you ever been in the military. I have however. So there are a number of things regarding the mindset of career soldiers where I believe I can speak with some authority.
You are of course free to dismiss all the arguments I have presented as preposterous and even laughable. - I do not find that surprising at all.

I do not recall having read that the Ministry of Defense was ignorant of Joachim's candidacy. As far as I understand Joachim was approached by the Ministry of Defense. But perhaps your mean the Defense Command?

If you as a colonel turn down a posting that has been pretty much tailor made for you, without a very good reason. You won't get a second chance.
And that's just not the military that applies for.
I doubt very much you will buy that, so be it. I will not waste time repeating ad nauseam the same reasoning over and over and over again.

I do not share your opinion that the public would have remained ignorant that Joachim had been offered this posting, should ha have declined. Nor am I under any illusion at to what angling some papers in particular and certain segments of the population in general would have thought about that. - Words like workshy and inept springs to mind.

And we should not forget that Joachim was raised by a stern father to respect his mother as his souverain. That would be another point against him saying no to the position. However he thought personally about it.
  #387  
Old 08-05-2020, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
And I understand her frustration. I just don't understand the way they have decided to voice and/or frame it.



You said that he couldn't turn down a job he's specifically trained for. Does the course he undertook at École Militaire make him qualified? Yes, but it isn't required to become a military attaché in France. If Joachim had turned it down, one of the 5 people who applied for and actually wanted the job would've gotten it.

The MoD itself has confirmed that they weren't aware of the interest from the DRF until some time into the application process which implies that Joachim wasn't a part of their plans to begin with. However, even if he had been, there's no way J&M wouldn't have been informed about it which would beg the question, why voice your dissatisfaction publicly now if deployment has been the expectation from the beginning. Why not when they were sent to France in the first place? Why not when they were questioned about the apanage last year?

The suggestion that Joachim's military career would somehow be over for turning down one (1) job offer sounds absolutely preposterous to me and should that truly be the case, the state of our military is even worse than I thought, but hey, I'm not in the military so I'm not qualified to contest that. Although I would still argue that he wouldn't offend anyone by turning the position down that they haven't now offended with this interview. As for "public scorn"? If he'd declined the job as an attaché, the public wouldn't even know that position had been offered to him.

I think it's slightly misleading that you present your own speculations as facts. Because Joachim could have declined the position. You even say as much yourself by not listing anything that would've prevented him from declining the offer in practice.
I do not think anybody presents his/her personal opinion as facts here, as we all do not know and all is left to speculation somehow.
I do agree that J. had hardly a possibility to turn down that job once he accepted to do the course of which he himself said that he and hardly anybody had known is existing. Maybe the public had not known he was offered the job but his family, the court, the fellow soldiers...? enough to loose.
I do not know enough about his training that far, but it seems obvious that without the course he would have had no qualification at all to get the job.
We do not know if J. knew the job was going to follow, maybe this is why they or better she is complaining now, who knows? Maybe he felt honoured being invited to that course, maybe he did not realise it was part of a plan?
There are worse situations than being privileged like J&M and they will come over it and serving your country is not always as comfortable as the two had it in the past.
anyway time will tell, if he can start the job, it takes time to recover and could be a good if not only excuse to get away from it ;-)
  #388  
Old 08-05-2020, 03:46 PM
Majesty
 
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Alexandra gave a statement on Joachims recovery. Hr was able to call his sons after the operation.
https://herognu.dk/efter-joachims-bl...ler-alexandra/
  #389  
Old 08-05-2020, 05:01 PM
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One thing is for sure, Marie should have kept her mouth shut and neither one of them should have responded to the tabloid reporter without going through the usual channels. However, it seems to me that Marie wanted to “set the record straight” and declare that she wasn’t the bad guy dragging her husband to Paris that many presumed because of her french heritage. Royals really can’t publicly complain, just to other royals imo. Especially now when there are so many sick and unemployed, she comes across as very spoiled. My question is, did this interview appear before Joachim‘s health event? I can’t help think that this faux pas by Marie, or at least the happiness of Marie could’ve contributed to joachim’s stress level and possibly his condition
  #390  
Old 08-05-2020, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frelinghighness View Post
One thing is for sure, Marie should have kept her mouth shut and neither one of them should have responded to the tabloid reporter without going through the usual channels. However, it seems to me that Marie wanted to “set the record straight” and declare that she wasn’t the bad guy dragging her husband to Paris that many presumed because of her french heritage. Royals really can’t publicly complain, just to other royals imo. Especially now when there are so many sick and unemployed, she comes across as very spoiled. My question is, did this interview appear before Joachim‘s health event? I can’t help think that this faux pas by Marie, or at least the happiness of Marie could’ve contributed to joachim’s stress level and possibly his condition
Yes, it did. There were apparently two interviews (one French one Danish) in the week prior; one was a few hours prior Joachim being admitted to hospital. Not sure which one was when.
  #391  
Old 08-05-2020, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I believe QMII genuinely felt this would be the ideal job and life for J&M.

Perhaps QMII should invite her sons and daughters-in-law over more often for a cup and coffee and listen a little more?
Perhaps she would have realized that while she would probably have loved to be a diplomat's wife in Paris of all places for a few years, that might not be the case with her youngest son and his wife.
- Just a thought..
Or maybe, Joachim told his mother at some point he was feeling at loose ends or wasn’t completely satisfied as things stood with his career in Denmark so Margrethe mentioned in passing to her aides to keep an ear out for any possibilities that might be appropriate for Joachim and one of them heard about the potential job in Paris. Maybe she then spoke to Joachim and he was enthusiastic about the idea and oh yes, of course he’d have to run things by Marie but he was sure she’d be happy, too! Maybe Margrethe took that as the go ahead for her staff to let the appropriate people in France know things could move forward and the French confirmed the placement before Joachim got around to actually talking to Marie and found out that she was not as delighted as he’d assumed she would be.

And then perhaps, instead of deciding to man up and tell Marie how much of a part he’d actually played in this turn of events, Joachim decided to let his wife be angry with his mother and his mother be exasperated with his wife, in order to avoid both of them being angry and exasperated with him. I know it would be unusual for a grown man to do that except, wait, actually it wouldn’t be unusual at ALL! I would go so far as to call it classic, even.

Certainly it would be less unusual than a mother waking up one day and, out of nowhere, deciding to send her middle aged son, his wife and their young children to Paris for three years.
  #392  
Old 08-05-2020, 09:58 PM
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Since Marie is French, isn’t her family there for her? I could understand if she was Danish and away from her family....
  #393  
Old 08-06-2020, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frelinghighness View Post
One thing is for sure, Marie should have kept her mouth shut and neither one of them should have responded to the tabloid reporter without going through the usual channels. However, it seems to me that Marie wanted to “set the record straight” and declare that she wasn’t the bad guy dragging her husband to Paris that many presumed because of her french heritage. Royals really can’t publicly complain, just to other royals imo. Especially now when there are so many sick and unemployed, she comes across as very spoiled. My question is, did this interview appear before Joachim‘s health event? I can’t help think that this faux pas by Marie, or at least the happiness of Marie could’ve contributed to joachim’s stress level and possibly his condition
I agree with you. I don't believe Marie&Joachim are really unhappy about their life in Paris. But I think they were unhappy or worried about their image. I think Marie knows that a lot of people in Dk see her as the reason for the sale of Schackenborg and the move to Copenhagen (because as Joachim's uncle put it, she didn't like living there any better than Joachim's first wife). And because of her French heritage a lot of people see her as the reason for their move to Paris.
I think she wanted to set the record straight that she was happy with her life in Denmark - that she is not the Danish "Meghan Markle" who dragged her prince out of his country which she seems to hate into her home-country, so to speak. While I can understand her frustration - particularly because the Danes can be very unpleasant if they get the idea in their heads you are in any way critical towards their country - as Marie has seen with her late father-in-law, I also think it was a bad idea to talk to the media (and to a trash magazine like Se og Hoer out of all magazines!) because such attempts to change an image usually go wrong and make things worse, as can be seen in this thread.

And yes, this interview and perhaps the feeling he has made a mistake, and all that after having spend time in Cayx with both his wives for the sake of his son - which I imagine was stressful too, could have contributed to his condition.
  #394  
Old 08-06-2020, 05:41 AM
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That is what I thought part of the original reason for saying all this (to a tabloid!) was. "I love Denmark, I didn't want to leave, don't blame me!" essentially.

But then it went the other way in sounding incredibly obnoxious, entitled and a little petty to complain about, especially in the currently world climate.

Add in the Queen and Court essentially arranging this job that they apparently do not like for reasons that aren't clear which also involved other candidates who actually wanted to the job, rumours of "having to leave Denmark" for "reasons" and you have yourselves a very juicy story with a lot of moving parts.
  #395  
Old 08-06-2020, 02:13 PM
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And to think, it was at the end of last year I think, where Marie was asked about the Meghan/Harry situation. Marie answered that "complaining was useless" l

https://www.independent.ie/style/cel...-38809404.html

Maybe a few less interviews
  #396  
Old 08-06-2020, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polyesco View Post
And to think, it was at the end of last year I think, where Marie was asked about the Meghan/Harry situation. Marie answered that "complaining was useless" l

https://www.independent.ie/style/cel...-38809404.html

Maybe a few less interviews
It takes quite a willful interpretation to conclude that our Marie was even thinking about H&M.
Talk about clickbait!
  #397  
Old 08-06-2020, 03:14 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
That is what I thought part of the original reason for saying all this (to a tabloid!) was. "I love Denmark, I didn't want to leave, don't blame me!" essentially.

But then it went the other way in sounding incredibly obnoxious, entitled and a little petty to complain about, especially in the currently world climate.

Add in the Queen and Court essentially arranging this job that they apparently do not like for reasons that aren't clear which also involved other candidates who actually wanted to the job, rumours of "having to leave Denmark" for "reasons" and you have yourselves a very juicy story with a lot of moving parts.
May just be that the RF felt that if his farm had failed and he was not doing any visible work, they had to find him soemthing to do and this came up. But it should not have been given to him when other candidates had applied and wanted the job...
  #398  
Old 08-10-2020, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polyesco View Post
And to think, it was at the end of last year I think, where Marie was asked about the Meghan/Harry situation. Marie answered that "complaining was useless" l

https://www.independent.ie/style/cel...-38809404.html

Maybe a few less interviews
Maybe she has eaten her words!

Is Marie's family in France or Switzerland.
There are pros and cons to everything in life. Yes the move may have been unpleasant but it would enable her to draw closer to the French side if her family.
It's interesting that she chose to make a statement that could easily be misinterpreted as being ungrateful and complaining.
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  #399  
Old 08-10-2020, 04:21 PM
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I assume there isn't any news on Joachim's condition. Would it be reasonable to expect a press release when he discharged from the hospital (or transferred to Denmark)?
  #400  
Old 08-10-2020, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
I assume there isn't any news on Joachim's condition. Would it be reasonable to expect a press release when he discharged from the hospital (or transferred to Denmark)?
Hmm, I guess they will release a statement just before 1st September when he is due to start as an attache. Because of course it will be of public interest as to whether Joachim is able to start working or not, or perhaps part-time.
I presume they are still at Cayx, resting.

QMII may not join them this year though. Because the infection rate in DK may result in France closing down for Danes. I understand Belgium is considering closing their borders to Danes.
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