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  #301  
Old 07-29-2020, 03:40 PM
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A few more translations from the interview
https://princessmariescloset.com/202...achims-health/

"Uh, I was so happy living in Denmark. I loved living in Denmark. Denmark is just such a wonderful country to be in. Everything works well and there are not many problems. But I come from Paris. So for me, this is nothing new. If we can go back and forth between France and Denmark, then that would be great.”

When asked if going back and forth between France and Denmark was the future plan, Princess Marie said:*“We really do not know. We were thrown into it without thinking much.”
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  #302  
Old 07-29-2020, 03:49 PM
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Hmm interesting, could they be referring to Schackenborg no longer being viable (though it was along time ago) and wanting or needing something to do outside of royal duties? Or simply that no one knows how life is going to work out? Quite an odd comment without knowing the background, in a way it could just be them trying to make clear they haven't abandoned Denmark and still love it but the suggestion it wasn't their choice will raise eyebrows (if its true and translated with the meaning we all possibly assume).
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  #303  
Old 07-29-2020, 04:06 PM
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Hmm, given that the immediate quote was about whether he could have imagined this change 10 years ago, he refers to him being a farmer, the most likely explanation seems to be that this is about finding a new path after being 'forced' to abandon Schackenborg...

However, Marie's insistence that "it is important to know" that this decision to move to Paris was not their decision - and Joachim's message that he had never heard of the program "before I was invited", later on followed by Marie's "We were thrown into it without thinking much" after explaining she would rather live in Denmark, suggests that there were indeed other forces at work.
  #304  
Old 07-29-2020, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Hmm, given that the immediate quote was about whether he could have imagined this change 10 years ago, he refers to him being a farmer, the most likely explanation seems to be that this is about finding a new path after being 'forced' to abandon Schackenborg...

However, Marie's insistence that "it is important to know" that this decision to move to Paris was not their decision - and Joachim's message that he had never heard of the program "before I was invited", later on followed by Marie's "We were thrown into it without thinking much" after explaining she would rather live in Denmark, suggests that there were indeed other forces at work.

Who would want to force them out of Denmark? Certainly that would not be in the interest either of the RF or the Danish government, would it?
  #305  
Old 07-29-2020, 04:28 PM
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Who would want to force them out of Denmark? Certainly that would not be in the interest either of the RF or the Danish government, would it?
None whatsoever.

There were some calls for Joachim to step up his workload. But at least he had a job with the Defense Command, so it wasn't a concern.

In fact Joachim had a great public and personal success in narrating and hosting a TV-series about danish history and I had the impression that here he had found something that was interesting (he is a history buff) and challenging.

So I can imagine that the offer to attend the staff course in France followed by the offer (Joachim was approached he didn't seek the job a military attache) to be stationed in France for at least three year, may not have been what he really wanted to at that point.
But it takes time to "arrange" a French invitation to the staff school, combined with a vacant position. And Joachim might very well have been the very best suited for the job.
So this may be an obligation he - and our Marie - is taking on, rather than a desire?

But I need to read the interview first to get the gist.
  #306  
Old 07-29-2020, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polyesco View Post
A few more translations from the interview
https://princessmariescloset.com/202...achims-health/

"Uh, I was so happy living in Denmark. I loved living in Denmark. Denmark is just such a wonderful country to be in. Everything works well and there are not many problems. But I come from Paris. So for me, this is nothing new. If we can go back and forth between France and Denmark, then that would be great.”

When asked if going back and forth between France and Denmark was the future plan, Princess Marie said:*“We really do not know. We were thrown into it without thinking much.”
The article behind this link claims to have translated all direct citations. That's what my previous contribution was based on.
  #307  
Old 07-29-2020, 05:15 PM
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That is indeed a couple of odd remarks. Especially since the France stay and his newfound military career has largely been painted as Joachim finally finding his own path in life after being forced down the agricultural path by his surroundings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Please don't remind me of the comments sections on EB! It's an open stinking sewer!
The editor ought to have his ears ripped off in Presselogen. Not that it would make an impact.

I actually meant when things are quiet the press will "cover" those who are critical of Joachim being treated in France. We have seen it before, we will see it again...
I was under the impression that they'd modified it so that people would need to use their full name when commenting but either they've abandoned that or they didn't walk the talk. Unsurprising but abhorrent nonetheless.

Nah. I don't buy that. The coverage of the criticism of their stay in France so far has been justified. It's not unreasonable to ask whether it's appropriate for the court to interpret the law as it suits them for him to receive apanage during his stay or for the MoD to shut down an application process for the attaché job once the court showed interest. Nor is it unreasonable for there to be a conversation about the subject of them receiving apanage while abroad and not being able to fulfil the same engagement count.

It would, however, be completely unreasonable to argue that Joachim shouldn't be allowed to receive medical treatment in the country it's already been established will be his home for the coming three years. Not only would it be unreasonable, it would also cross some pretty personal boundaries in trying to interfere with his health and I doubt even the worst rags would dare doing that.
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  #308  
Old 07-30-2020, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polyesco View Post
A few more translations from the interview
https://princessmariescloset.com/202...achims-health/
a couple of interesting interviews to 2 magazines, both with a very different tone.

i found it interesting that the Se og hor one was not previously agreed to by the Court’s communication department.

marie's quote on “It is not always us who decide.” was unexpected. i guess they mean that QM strongly advised for joachim to do this training. i wonder what is the reasoning behind it.

otherwise, i really liked marie's loving words for denmark.

the french interview sounded really positive and happy.
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  #309  
Old 07-30-2020, 11:34 AM
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Okay, I've been reading the interview and I'm 90+ % certain I understand what is meant.

They had no plans to go settle abroad.
Marie in particular was not at all keen on moving away from Denmark! - Whether it was France or somewhere else made no difference IMO. Denmark is her home now.
It is my clear impression that Joachim got an offer, he felt obliged to accept.
But it was not with the happy approval of our Marie!

I will return later with a longer post explaining why I have reached this conclusion.
It is certainly a frank interview, also in the interaction with Journalist!

Apart from that there are a number of other interesting details in the interview.

But I have to prepare dinner first. I have a dinner-date with two enchanting ladies who will return from work any moment now.

- Oh, Archduchess Z:

Yes, Politiken and Jyllands Posten require your full name for commenting, but not EB. And the psychos there take full advantage of that!
  #310  
Old 07-30-2020, 12:43 PM
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Who forced Joachim to give up farming?
He failed and almost ruined the farm, was my latest information.
Some of Marie's comments seem odd but it could be an attempt to protect from voices saying she is the one who wants to leave Danmark for her origin country.
Joachim himself is half french, so it can be an enjoyable thing for the family especially when there is a french family awaiting them.
Maybe his brother wants to clear the path as future King. .Take a look at other monarchies most of them slimming down for the future and Frederick has 4 children of his own, so there should be enough working royals if needed.
And Joachim's reputation in Danmark was not the best. If the stories about Mary and Marie are true, who knows.
and now let's see if he will be able to take the job after recovering. I must say I do not watch too often but was shocked recently how old he looks on photographs, much older than his brother or my friends same age. his smoking might have done this sideeffect and who knwos if he lives healthy in other aspects of daily life. some routine might do him good as it is for anybody and his job, well, he got it privileged and I guess the workload will be acceptable compared to non-royal with an exwife and father of 4 and new wife who has maybe 2 or 3 jobs plus weekends to fullfill his duties.
I wish him all the best, because such a surgery is nothing but usual and easy to live after.
  #311  
Old 07-30-2020, 02:43 PM
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Thank you for the insights Muhler.
By Marie making it known that it wasnt their decision, then who's was it?
I feel there was no need to voice this publicly. It's kinda placing the "blame" on the Queen, as she is still the head of the family.
  #312  
Old 07-30-2020, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polyesco View Post
By Marie making it known that it wasnt their decision, then who's was it?
I feel there was no need to voice this publicly. It's kinda placing the "blame" on the Queen, as she is still the head of the family.

I agree. It would have been better to keep quiet and not voice this and in S&H of all places.

I wonder what the Danish MOD or the Minister of Defence who offered him the job think if they read this...
The were other applicants (and their partners) who I assume would have been quite happy to get the job and move to Paris.
  #313  
Old 07-30-2020, 03:30 PM
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Excerpts of interview in Se & Hør #31, 2020.
Interviewer Jacob Heinel Jensen.

Who emphasize that the interview was not conducted after an agreement by the court's PR-office. (So I guess the journalist and magazine is in bad standing now.)
The interview took place a week before Joachim fell ill.
J&M were apparently approached twice walking in the area near the chateau and it seems to me that J&M accepted a brief interview while walking. (IMO a "Arrh, yeah, okay then" interview.)

The interview is very frank! Our Marie has always been a lousy hypocrite. If she feels something is deeply unfair, she will say so.
And Joachim also manages to poke a knife in between the ribs of the reporter.

They chat with the journalist about Joachim changing his career and starting a new education at the ripe age of 50, to becoming the defense attache at the Danish embassy in Paris.
Joachim says: "It's never too late. It's a natural continuation of that class. The in depth knowledge I have gained regarding the French Defense and of course I acquainted 25 high ranking French officers in the upper echelon/leadership. So that was obvious."

Q: If we go ten years back in time, could You have imagined that this would be Your path?
J: "No. Ten years ago I was a farmer. It's a simple as that."

The reporter then asks why he has chosen this new path in life and it is here Marie breaks in saying:
"It's not always we who decide."

She declines to elaborate, but repeats: "No. But it's not always we who decide. That I think is important to know."

Q: But You do not wish to elaborate?
M: "No."

Joachim takes over: "And then there is this to say to that: That class/education, that is so unique. It's not something you can apply for. So when that fell into place, I'd say it was a natural consequence. Before I was invited to attend that class, I hadn't even heard about. Very few have."

Joachim emphasize that he has never in his life had a burning desire to live in Paris. But that's how it turned out.

Marie comes in (and this bit is IMO illuminating) in regards to them adjusting to their new life in France and she doesn't hide that it was hard:
"No, I think it has been challenging for me, because I had to support my husband and look after our children. That's what I had to do.
We must see what comes. But now of course I have to settle in. Now it's my turn. I think/feel I should think about myself now. Because I have been 100 % on for my husband and I have been looking after my children. And of course it is with delight/joy, but I must also think about the causes that matters to me."

Makes it clear she would choose Denmark as her home at any time.
"Oh, I'm so fond of living in Denmark. I loved living in Denmark. Denmark is just such a nice country to be in. Everything works (as in function) so well and there are not many problems. But I come from Paris, so to me it's nothing new. If we can move back and forth between Denmark and and France it would be nice."

Q: Is that the plan for the future?
M: We really don't know. (As in having no clue.) We were thrown into it without much thinking."

(And this is IMO illuminating as well.)
Marie explains that it has been hard for the family, not least the children to settle in France.
"It has been a very odd year, because of all that with Corona and then there has been strikes in France (Yellow Wests). So it may have been a little difficult for them to find their day-to-day life (footing). But I think they'll get there.
They speak French now. But they haven't been to school for more than three months. So it's totally crazy. It's a bit annoying for them, because it's their first year in France. But we have tried to keep up with the French and we really think they have learned a lot."

Joachim also manages to whack the journalist on the head a little.
The topic turns to the question of his apanage.
Q: Prince Joachim, there has been criticism in regards to...
J: "But that's in the past."

Q: But I must ask what You Yourself think of the criticism?
J: "No... Se & Hør are after all really good at taking the lead the critique. Do You know what would be the most fair thing?
Not writing about it."
M: "Well, it's true. It has been unfair. because he loves his country and he works for Denmark and he is so proud of being Danish and being able to help where he can. And I don't feel you should only mention what is negative. You should also mention what is positive."

Felix mentioned in a brief interview to Se & Hør last week that he considered signing up for the military after high school. (That can mean officers school, but also that he will sign up for volunteer conscription, as many who graduate from high school do.)
Joachim's face lightens up: "I'm very proud of that. he's got guts and he's got something between his ears as well. So I'll say that it of course is something that makes a military heart proud.
And that being said kindly. Also in regards to his brother, who didn't settle in there at all. So it shouldn't be forbidden for Felix to try it. I'm very proud of that."

- I have on purpose not read the translation that was linked to a few posts ago, in order not to be distracted. I know that translation is brilliant, it usually is.

And now for why I believe it's Marie who is the most unhappy about resettling.

We know that President Macron during his state visit to DK, presented an invitation to attend the staff course. And it seem clear now that this invitation was personal to Joachim. I guess there have been some sounding behind the scenes.
QMII happily passed the invitation on to Joachim, no doubt with the post as military attache as an additional reward. A perfect job for her son.
And Joachim would have reacted with a: "Yeah. Eeh. Well. Gee, thanks ma."
It may no longer have been something he dreamed about anymore.
But Queen and Country calls, so...
It would have been close to unthinkable for Joachim to say no. Declining a personal invitation from the French President? To perhaps the most prestigious staff course in Europe at a time where DK and France is stepping up the military co-operation in earnest? Joachim wouldn't turn that down. It would also go against his upbringing.

Marie however, when she heard the news...
She has settled in in DK. She has close friends here. She has her own projects and protections she feel are relevant and are passionate about.
To go to Paris, to be a diplomat-wife, in a city that really hasn't been her home since she was thirteen.
And what about the children!?! Are they to be dragged out of school and away from their friends?!?
And settling in Paris it's Marie who took care of all the myriad of details regarding settling in, looking after the children, helping them settling in (and they may not always have been happy!) and with a father they hardly see. And with a husband she only saw in the evening, completely wasted, six days a week.
I don't think you need a crystal ball to realize Marie was not happy with that arrangement!
Not only that, I think Marie is still in the stage where "everything is better back home." It will change over time and become more nuanced I believe.

I firmly believe this is how to interpret Marie's statements.
And I must admit the realization has turned the vision I had of J&M upside down.
  #314  
Old 07-30-2020, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polyesco View Post
Thank you for the insights Muhler.
By Marie making it known that it wasnt their decision, then who's was it?
I feel there was no need to voice this publicly. It's kinda placing the "blame" on the Queen, as she is still the head of the family.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
I agree. It would have been better to keep quiet and not voice this and in S&H of all places.

I wonder what the Danish MOD or the Minister of Defence who offered him the job think if they read this...
The were other applicants (and their partners) who I assume would have been quite happy to get the job and move to Paris.
Well, we have seen it before. Marie is bad at pretending.
If she feels something is unfair or wrong, she won't/can't hide it.

It may not be diplomatic or wise but it's honest.

- And now I'd better look after my own wife, so she doesn't do a Marie on me.
  #315  
Old 07-30-2020, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
(...)

And now for why I believe it's Marie who is the most unhappy about resettling.

We know that President Macron during his state visit to DK, presented an invitation to attend the staff course. And it seem clear now that this invitation was personal to Joachim. I guess there have been some sounding behind the scenes.
QMII happily passed the invitation on to Joachim, no doubt with the post as military attache as an additional reward. A perfect job for her son.
And Joachim would have reacted with a: "Yeah. Eeh. Well. Gee, thanks ma."
It may no longer have been something he dreamed about anymore.
But Queen and Country calls, so...
It would have been close to unthinkable for Joachim to say no. Declining a personal invitation from the French President? To perhaps the most prestigious staff course in Europe at a time where DK and France is stepping up the military co-operation in earnest? Joachim wouldn't turn that down. It would also go against his upbringing.

Marie however, when she heard the news...
She has settled in in DK. She has close friends here. She has her own projects and protections she feel are relevant and are passionate about.
To go to Paris, to be a diplomat-wife, in a city that really hasn't been her home since she was thirteen.
And what about the children!?! Are they to be dragged out of school and away from their friends?!?
And settling in Paris it's Marie who took care of all the myriad of details regarding settling in, looking after the children, helping them settling in (and they may not always have been happy!) and with a father they hardly see. And with a husband she only saw in the evening, completely wasted, six days a week.
I don't think you need a crystal ball to realize Marie was not happy with that arrangement!
Not only that, I think Marie is still in the stage where "everything is better back home." It will change over time and become more nuanced I believe.

I firmly believe this is how to interpret Marie's statements.
And I must admit the realization has turned the vision I had of J&M upside down.
I agree that it most likely has been a rather tough year for Marie and she apparently felt that she didn't have much of a say in what's happened. It will be interesting to see how she will work on the 'now it's time for me'-part. Assuming that Joachim might need some time to fully recover, it might have to wait a little longer.
  #316  
Old 07-30-2020, 04:45 PM
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Interesting if its true that HM and the Court would allow the invitation to be made without much consultation with the French President's staff. Though I can imagine Margrethe agreeing to it without consultation though. bad on Joachim if they feel forced into it as noone should feel they have to move their family and life without wanting to.
  #317  
Old 07-30-2020, 05:18 PM
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Whatever behind the scenes dealings should have been kept behind the scenes. I see this trying to publically blame the Queen as a bit disrespectful now. It's been one year after his training, Joachim at 50 should have given a firm No thank you or move on and make the best.
That's what I thought he was doing. Taking this opportunity in a country he loves, no need to say what Marie said.

That coronavirus has made it difficult, well that's for everyone.

Marie has just help the tabloids with more headlines, which I dont think is needed.
  #318  
Old 07-30-2020, 06:23 PM
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Thank you for the translation, Muhler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Excerpts of interview in Se & Hør #31, 2020.
Interviewer Jacob Heinel Jensen.

Who emphasize that the interview was not conducted after an agreement by the court's PR-office. (So I guess the journalist and magazine is in bad standing now.)
I am not sure the magazine or journalist ought to take the blame. Surely it is the responsibility of members of the royal family to secure agreement from the court's PR office, if that is what is expected, and not the responsibility of the magazine conducting the interview.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
The topic turns to the question of his apanage.
Q: Prince Joachim, there has been criticism in regards to...
J: "But that's in the past."

Q: But I must ask what You Yourself think of the criticism?
J: "No... Se & Hør are after all really good at taking the lead the critique. Do You know what would be the most fair thing?
No writing about it."
Interesting that he believes it would be "fairer" to not write at all about his apanage or the criticism of his apanage (I am not clear on which one he means).
  #319  
Old 07-30-2020, 06:45 PM
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Unfortunately, Princess Marie sounds VERY entitled with her answers. Yes, she had the protections and an extremely privileged living standard in Denmark - through her title. And now she's a mere "diplomats wife" - yet she is French born and raised woman living in France! Instead of using her time in France as an opportunity to advance herself, she's whinging about looking after her kids and husband. Wow. Just wow.

Quite disappointed with her attitude.
  #320  
Old 07-30-2020, 06:45 PM
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I wonder if it's a bit of defensiveness from Marie coming through? "No just because I'm French and Joachim is said to somewhat identify with his French side we didn't take the first opportunity to move away from Denmark long term. It wasn't even our idea! I love Denmark, I prefer it!" Only it ends up seeming out of touch and entitled.

Wasn't it also reported that other candidates were applying for the job but when Joachim showed interest, it was decided he was the perfect candidate and the application process stopped? It doesn't look great if she's saying "It wasn't our idea at all. It's a burden to us, I'm bored and it's been very difficult" when others may also have been suited to it and would have jumped at the chance. I'm sure it has been difficult but the remarks don't seem wise to me, especially at a time when so many people are finding it very difficult and don't have her resources.
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