General News about Joachim, Marie and Family Part 5: September 2019 - December 2020

[kalnel]

I'd use "after-effects," "impairments," or "disabilities."

Sometimes people link these with time-frames or degrees of seriousness. Someone might suffer from the "immediate after-effects of a stroke," or have "temporary impairments," or "long-term disabilities." (You could combine any timeframe with any of those terms.)

Also, a tiny spelling tip: No "h" on "blood clot." :-)

Hopefully, these are all words and problems no one will need to be using. It seems so premature to be talking about such outcomes when no one really knows what his condition is. As a relatively young man, he may bounce back very well and very quickly. The fact that reports say he was aware and alert when the clot first struck, would seem to be very encouraging.

I thought the palace's statement earlier today that he was doing well under the circumstances was a little odd, but it may have been another nuance lost in translation. I couldn't tell if it was implying that he was "as well as could be expected" or he was doing well except for the complications of the clot.

[ladongas]

Aftereffects would be the word I would choose.

[Sidacarri]

I think the word to describe the effects on someones life be it physical or cognitive from a brain injury is 'impairment'

[Lady Daly]

I don't know if this has been brought up but Prince Joachim very well could have suffered from a subdural hematoma which requires emergency surgery. There are several types of hematomas (bleeding/clotting in the brain) indicative of medical emergencies and scenarios – such as a subdural hematoma and/or intracranial (brain) hematoma. Various causes include head trauma, liver disease, clotting problems such as thrombocytopenia, cerebral aneurysm, AV malformation, tumors, and idiopathic or unknown. I think until further details have been shared we are all of course speculating including myself. I send my well wishes and hope Prince Joachim will have a speedy recovery without untoward effects or disability.

[Lady Daly]

https://www.barrons.com/articles/dan...ry-01595766606

Article above reports contrary to earlier Danish media reports saying Prince Joachim had been taken by helicopter, he was driven by ambulance to the hospital in Toulouse 130 kilometres (90 miles) away. If it was suspected Prince Joachim had a subdural hematoma, flying by helicopter would be contraincidated due to the increase in intracranial pressure ICP "pressure build up in the brain" initially caused by the clotting and then by cabin pressure in the helicopter.

I worked as an RN in a trauma level one hospital and we were always the receiving hospital. I remember concerns with ICP (intracranial pressure) regarding air transports. I'm really hopeful with what appears initially to be prompt care he will make a full and complete recovery. Since the window for recovery can include days to weeks to months, I think this is why we are not hearing more details currently.

[Prinsara]

They keep saying "clot" and not "stroke".

https://www.everydayhealth.com/colum...e-threatening/

The link discusses different brain clots.

Whatever the diagnosis or the prognosis, my best wishes to the prince and his family for an effective recovery.

[csw]

Originally Posted by Sidacarri

I think the word to describe the effects on someones life be it physical or cognitive from a brain injury is 'impairment'

Very good word choice. It accommodates the concept of having a percentage of damage.

[caethi]

Originally Posted by Prinsara

They keep saying "clot" and not "stroke".

https://www.everydayhealth.com/colum...e-threatening/

Apparently there is some difference.

Whatever the diagnosis or the prognosis, my best wishes to the prince and his family for an effective recovery.

There are two kinds of strokes--thrombotic (due to a clot) and hemorrhagic (due to bleeding, for example, from a leaking or ruptured aneurysm).

[Helen.CH]

He seems to be in a very unlucky situation.
he failed in almost any position he had before and now the government gave him another chance with the new position and what happens?
I hope he gets well soon and maybe finds peace afterwards whereevr that might be.
A brainsurgery is a massive thing and nothing will be like it was before
plus the fact that we do not know how this clot developped. maybe he is a strong smoker like his mother?
rumours saying the two brothers are not that close, maybe now things get better though the distance Danmark France seemed as an attempt to calm things for the crown prince and Joachim.
all the best.

[Lady Daly]

I've been trying to find a way to explain "a blood clot in the brain" which is not necessarily a stroke. An ischemic stroke is vascular which means blood clots impeding blood flow within the blood vessels that either lead to the brain or actually in the brain. Very similar to a "heart attack" only in the brain. The fact that they continue to specify this is a blood clot in the brain tells me this is exactly that, a blood clot within the spaces of the brain itself not a vascular ishemic event. Of course because of the language differences and practice of medicine they could mean stroke but I don't think so.

Specifically, the information below covers subdural hematomas, which is the most common type of blood clot found in the brain.

About Blood Clots in the Brain:
A blood clot in the brain is also called a hematoma, a particular type is called a subdural hematoma. A subdural hematoma occurs when there is initially bleeding between the brain and the thin membrane covering it, the dura, and then becomes a clot or several clots.

A blood clot in the brain is typically the result of trauma, which can be either a single significant episode or repeated minor injuries. The chance of a blood clot in the brain increases with age. This is because the brain shrinks over time, but the skull remains the same size. Think of this as creating a space around the brain, with room to jostle around. This can lead to tears in delicate blood vessels and bleeding, followed by clotting. The risk increases with age naturally, as well as factors that increase bleeding, such as anticoagulant medications and excessive alcohol intake.

This is a bit complicated but I think if Prince Joachim had had an ischemic brain event caused by a blood clot in a vessel they would have called it a cerebral ischemic vascular event or a stroke but they maintained this to be clots in the brain. Also, the fact he was not life flighted to Toulouse by helicopter indicates there were considerations with intercranial pressure increasing which occurs with blood clots in the brain not so much with a stroke. Had there been a medical evac fixed wing plane sitting around in the countryside of Cahors they probably would have flown him as you can adjust cabin pressures in fixed wing.

The intervention for a stroke vs subdural hematoma is very different, the outcome is also different depending on location, extent and severity. Different parts of the brain are involved but there are overlapping symptoms upon initial presentation.

What an unfortunate shock for this to have happened. We all certainly want the very best outcome and I am staying hopeful! Best wishes to Prince Joachim and his family.

[irish_royalist]

As many posters have mentioned, a 'stroke' can either be caused by :
- a blood clot - which can either cause temporary (a TIA) or permanent (a full-blown stroke) disability
- a bleed (which doesn't seem to be the case here, since sources mention a clot)

Treatment for a stroke caused by a blood clot can either be :
- medical - with blood-thinning medication
- 'surgical' - most often, this is not actually an operation on the brain through the skull, but rather a relatively more straightforward procedure performed through an artery in the groin by an Interventional Radiologist (rather than a Neurosurgeon), under sedation rather than full General Anaesthesia - called 'clot retrieval'

Let's hope that it was this latter procedure, and that all is well with the Prince.

[Archduchess Zelia]

Originally Posted by Muhler

Well, because once the initial life-saving treatment is over. Joachim is basically a foreign citizen taking up a bed and resources instead of a French citizen - who may not have the means to be transferred to a private hospital.

He's not though. Joachim is an EU citizen living and working in France. He's every bit as entitled to that bed and those resources as, say, the French ambassador to Denmark would be to treatment at a hospital in Denmark.

If he's transferred home, it'll be out of comfort (because while France undoubtedly means a lot to him, at the end of the day Denmark is his home and obviously it's more comfortable to be treated at home). It won't be because he'd be a burden to the French public health system or because there's a public expectation that he should be treated in Denmark.

[maria-olivia]

He has been taken in time that is the most important ! Let us hope !!

[Muhler]

Thank you for your many suggestions regarding "mén" I'm almost not confused.
I think I will use impairment, so when I do that in the future you'll know what I mean.

- Unfortunately, dictionaries, thesauri and Google aren't always adequate.

Clot it is then - and not a bloody rag...

Well, it doesn't really matter where Joachim is treated, as long as he is getting a good treatment, and he will get that in both DK and France.
Having said that, yes, there will be some criticism, if he is only treated in France. Sad to say, I'm convinced of that.

The wording "considering the circumstances" is very common here in DK and doesn't have a deeper meaning.
It simply means he is well, considering that he had a blood-clot hours before.
Just as someone who has had his arm ripped off by a machine "is well considering the circumstances."
It's just in idiom.

- The DK press have surrounded the hospital in Toulouse, but there really isn't any news today, except that we Danes have been educated about blood-clots, and hemorrhages in the brain. - Putting focus on something that serous affect (and sometimes kill) several thousands of Danes each year, is a good thing.

I guess we will get more news in the main news tonight.

[Prinsara]

Fwiw, I dragged a family member into this. He happens to be a neurologist with a stroke specialty, so I informed him it was a good thing he's not in Denmark, or he'd be getting consulted by the press, not just me.

Professional opinion:

Me-"they keep saying clot, not stroke, but he had to get surgery. I guess they couldn't dissolve it."
Him-"that sounds serious"
M-"and he's only 51... And he's a smoker"
H-"That'll do it."
M-"Really?" (that's it?)
H-"Yeah."
M-"And they said he's awake, and he can move his arms and legs and talk."
H-"Well that IS good."

[Prinsara]

Smoking causes:
Decreased oxygen to the heart and to other tissues in the body
Decreased exercise tolerance
Decreased HDL (good) cholesterol
Increased blood pressure and heart rate
Damage to cells that line coronary arteries and other blood vessels
Increased risk of developing coronary artery disease and heart attack
Increased risk of developing peripheral artery disease and stroke
Increased risk of developing lung cancer, throat cancer, chronic asthma, chronic bronchitis and emphysema
Increased risk of developing diabetes
Increased risk of developing a variety of other conditions including gum disease and ulcers
Increased tendency for blood clotting
Increased risk of recurrent coronary artery disease after bypass surgery
Increased risk of becoming sick (especially among children: respiratory infections are more common among children exposed to second-hand smoke) - which is surely why he quit

Unless we find out Joachim has some other complication, aside from a family history of atherosclerosis, this would seem to do it.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/healt.../17488-smoking

[gerry]

Originally Posted by Prinsara

Smoking causes:
Decreased oxygen to the heart and to other tissues in the body
Decreased exercise tolerance
Decreased HDL (good) cholesterol
Increased blood pressure and heart rate
Damage to cells that line coronary arteries and other blood vessels
Increased risk of developing coronary artery disease and heart attack
Increased risk of developing peripheral artery disease and stroke
Increased risk of developing lung cancer, throat cancer, chronic asthma, chronic bronchitis and emphysema
Increased risk of developing diabetes
Increased risk of developing a variety of other conditions including gum disease and ulcers
Increased tendency for blood clotting
Increased risk of recurrent coronary artery disease after bypass surgery
Increased risk of becoming sick (especially among children: respiratory infections are more common among children exposed to second-hand smoke) - which is surely why he quit

Unless we find out Joachim has some other complication, aside from a family history of atherosclerosis, this would seem to do it.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/healt.../17488-smoking

Thanks for this; I hope the Danes and their Royal Family take this unfortunate Prince's case as an example to stop smoking!

[Frelinghighness]

I would just say permanent damage

[Archduchess Zelia]

Originally Posted by Muhler

Well, it doesn't really matter where Joachim is treated, as long as he is getting a good treatment, and he will get that in both DK and France.
Having said that, yes, there will be some criticism, if he is only treated in France. Sad to say, I'm convinced of that.

Right, if by some criticism you mean there would be a handful of ridiculous comments on social media then yes, there always is – no matter the subject.

But let's not go all BT/EB "Danskerne raser!" on this and pretend that 5-6 comments of that sort is representative of the public opinion. I'd venture the vast majority would understand if he opted to receive treatment in the country that – until otherwise stated – is expected to be his home for the coming 3 years.

[polyesco]

Originally Posted by gerry

Thanks for this; I hope the Danes and their Royal Family take this unfortunate Prince's case as an example to stop smoking!

I think the Queen is the only one still smoking. I seem to recall Joachim said he took his last smoke on his 50th birthday, which was last year. I know Marie has been pictured smoking no word if she still does.

Frederik said he quit around Christian's birth, almost 15 years ago. Never read about Mary being a smoker.