General News about Joachim, Marie and Family Part 5: September 2019 - December 2020

[MidwestMom]

Hoping for a complete recovery for Prince Joachim, and also sending good wishes to his family, both immediate and extended. It's a scary time for all of them.

[Muhler]

Okay, let's step back a second and look at the reaction time.

Joachim underwent surgery Friday evening. And that would have taken place within very few hours after he developed symptoms.
A local ambulance and doctor would have been called in to Cayx.
The local ambulance-doctor, due to the severity of Joachim's condition (and probably also because of who he is) would likely have called in a helicopter. Cayx is far from everything and a stroke requiring advanced treatment like surgery would have been beyond the capabilities of a local hospital. Toulouse is as far as I can deduce about half an hours flight away by helicopter. (Plus time for the helicopter to arrive.)
He would have been rushed into surgery at once.

Marie is likely to have accompanied him, with Nikolai and Felix (fortunately) looking after Henrik and Athena.
I guess Alexandra would have contacted the DRF (QMII most likely) after the helicopter took off and then she would have awaited news from Marie before passing that on to the DRF, probably late Friday evening or into night.

QMII would likely in the meantime have contacted Frederik and updated him later on when there were more news.

As is I think QMII would have been ready to be flown out from Gråsten Saturday, (Air Base Skrydstrup is nearby and from there an air force Challenger can take her to France) I think it's very likely that at least Frederik drove to Gråsten Saturday morning to be ready to fly with his mother to France. That's three hours drive.
I think they were awaiting news from France about Joachim's condition before finally deciding what to do.

I the meantime I think Mary would have packed and left for Fredensborg with the children during Saturday. Or perhaps for Gråsten to be with her husband. But I think Fredensborg is more likely.
Also, Bendikte is at Gråsten these days, I think she will take over the representative duties she and QMII were to undertake there, while QMII focus on being a concerned mother.

I think QMII and probably Frederik as well will fly to Toulouse tonight or tomorrow morning.
So according to this mental picture, Mary or Benedikte will be appointed Rigsforstander around now.
More likely Mary because if she is in Copenhagen today she will be in position to handle or at least sign some of the administrative details presented by the court administration Sunday. (Benedikte after all doesn't even have a secretary nearby.) Especially if QMII and Frederik decides to stay for days in France, because I believe QMII will remain in France for a while.

After all QMII can't just jump on a plane in fly to France. There are a number of details that needs to be taken care of first.
In no particular order:
Finding PET officers to accompany her and getting them to France as well.
Informing the government. And signing over who will be Regent/Rigsforstander.
Arranging a flight and flight-clearance to France.
Informing the French Foreign Ministry.
Informing French security and giving them time to organize.
Arranging a discreet visit to the hospital in Toulouse while being as little disturbing as possible.
Commandeer a Challenger and a crew and get them to Air Base Skrydstrup.
- All in all a lot of small details that together takes at least a few hours to arrange. My guess is that it was done this forenoon.

I think Benedikte will leave for France in a day or two to support her sister there.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Muhler

Okay, let's step back a second and look at the reaction time.

Joachim underwent surgery Saturday evening. And that would have taken place within very few hours after he developed symptoms.
A local ambulance and doctor would have been called in to Cayx.
The local ambulance-doctor, due to the severity of Joachim's condition (and probably also because of who he is) would likely have called in a helicopter. Cayx is far from everything and a stroke requiring advanced treatment like surgery would have been beyond the capabilities of a local hospital. Toulouse is as far as I can deduce about half an hours flight away by helicopter. (Plus time for the helicopter to arrive.)
He would have been rushed into surgery at once.

Marie is likely to have accompanied him, with Nikolai and Felix (fortunately) looking after Henrik and Athena.
I guess Alexandra would have contacted the DRF (QMII most likely) after the helicopter took off and then she would have awaited news from Marie before passing that on to the DRF, probably late Saturday evening or into night.

QMII would likely in the meantime have contacted Frederik and updated him later on when there were more news.

As is I think QMII would have been ready to be flown out from Gråsten Sunday, (Air Base Skrydstrup is nearby and from there an air force Challenger can take her to France) I think it's very likely that at least Frederik drove to Gråsten Sunday morning to be ready to fly with his mother to France. That's three hours drive.
I think they were awaiting news from France about Joachim's condition before finally deciding what to do.

I the meantime I think Mary would have packed and left for Fredensborg with the children during Sunday. Or perhaps for Gråsten to be with her husband. But I think Fredensborg is more likely.
Also, Bendikte is at Gråsten these days, I think she will take over the representative duties she and QMII were to undertake there, while QMII focus on being a concerned mother.

I think QMII and probably Frederik as well will fly to Toulouse tonight or tomorrow morning.
So according to this mental picture, Mary or Benedikte will be appointed Rigsforstander around now.
More likely Mary because if she is in Copenhagen today she will be in position to handle or at least sign some of the administrative details presented by the court administration Monday. (Benedikte after all doesn't even have a secretary nearby.) Especially if QMII and Frederik decides to stay for days in France, because I believe QMII will remain in France for a while.

After all QMII can't just jump on a plane in fly to France. There are a number of details that needs to be taken care of first.
In no particular order:
Finding PET officers to accompany her and getting them to France as well.
Informing the government. And signing over who will be Regent/Rigsforstander.
Arranging a flight and flight-clearance to France.
Informing the French Foreign Ministry.
Informing French security and giving them time to organize.
Arranging a discreet visit to the hospital in Toulouse while being as little disturbing as possible.
Commandeer a Challenger and a crew and get them to Air Base Skrydstrup.
- All in all a lot of small details that together takes at least a few hours to arrange. My guess is that it was done this forenoon.

I think Benedikte will leave for France in a day or two to support her sister there.

I'm confused. It happened yesterday according to the press release: so both his stroke and at least surgery took place on Friday evening?! Not Saturday evening?! What am I missing? And it is now only Saturday, so anything you are describing as what would have happened on Sunday, is still in the future... Should we subtract one day of all you've written?

So:

Originally Posted by Muhler

Okay, let's step back a second and look at the reaction time.

Joachim underwent surgery Friday evening. And that would have taken place within very few hours after he developed symptoms.
A local ambulance and doctor would have been called in to Cayx.
The local ambulance-doctor, due to the severity of Joachim's condition (and probably also because of who he is) would likely have called in a helicopter. Cayx is far from everything and a stroke requiring advanced treatment like surgery would have been beyond the capabilities of a local hospital. Toulouse is as far as I can deduce about half an hours flight away by helicopter. (Plus time for the helicopter to arrive.)
He would have been rushed into surgery at once.

Marie is likely to have accompanied him, with Nikolai and Felix (fortunately) looking after Henrik and Athena.
I guess Alexandra would have contacted the DRF (QMII most likely) after the helicopter took off and then she would have awaited news from Marie before passing that on to the DRF, probably late Saturday evening or into night.

QMII would likely in the meantime have contacted Frederik and updated him later on when there were more news.

As is I think QMII would have been ready to be flown out from Gråsten Saturday, (Air Base Skrydstrup is nearby and from there an air force Challenger can take her to France) I think it's very likely that at least Frederik drove to Gråsten Saturday morning to be ready to fly with his mother to France. That's three hours drive.
I think they were awaiting news from France about Joachim's condition before finally deciding what to do.

I the meantime I think Mary would have packed and left for Fredensborg with the children during Saturday. Or perhaps for Gråsten to be with her husband. But I think Fredensborg is more likely.
Also, Bendikte is at Gråsten these days, I think she will take over the representative duties she and QMII were to undertake there, while QMII focus on being a concerned mother.

I think QMII and probably Frederik as well will fly to Toulouse tonight (Saturday) or tomorrow (Sunday) morning.
So according to this mental picture, Mary or Benedikte will be appointed Rigsforstander around now.
More likely Mary because if she is in Copenhagen today she will be in position to handle or at least sign some of the administrative details presented by the court administration Monday. (Benedikte after all doesn't even have a secretary nearby.) Especially if QMII and Frederik decides to stay for days in France, because I believe QMII will remain in France for a while.

After all QMII can't just jump on a plane in fly to France. There are a number of details that needs to be taken care of first.
In no particular order:
Finding PET officers to accompany her and getting them to France as well.
Informing the government. And signing over who will be Regent/Rigsforstander.
Arranging a flight and flight-clearance to France.
Informing the French Foreign Ministry.
Informing French security and giving them time to organize.
Arranging a discreet visit to the hospital in Toulouse while being as little disturbing as possible.
Commandeer a Challenger and a crew and get them to Air Base Skrydstrup.
- All in all a lot of small details that together takes at least a few hours to arrange. My guess is that it was done this forenoon.

I think Benedikte will leave for France in a day or two to support her sister there.

I don't think Benedikte being at Grasten is a problem for appointing her as Rigsforstander. Queen Margrethe herself was at Grasten with her. And if things would need to be signed it can be brought to her or she has a full day to travel to Copenhagen tomorrow before it's Monday and duties might resume.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Somebody

I'm confused. It happened yesterday according to the press release: so both his stroke and at least surgery took place on Friday evening?! Not Saturday evening?! What am I missing? And it is now only Saturday, so anything you are describing as what would have happened on Sunday, is still in the future... Should we subtract one day of all you've written?

So:

So was I!

For whatever reason I thought it was Saturday.

My post has been corrected.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Muhler

So was I!

For whatever reason I thought it was Saturday.

My post has been corrected.

For a moment I thought they kept it secret for a week but that didn't make much sense - especially not when I reread the press release... and verified that the posts about Felix' birthday and the queen at Grasten truly were taken this week.

We'll see whether Mary or Benedikte takes over as Rigsforstander and for how long - I assume until Frederik is appointed regent upon his return (assuming he will join his mother to France; alternatively, they could have decided that Frederik stays in Denmark for the time being and Benedikte joins her sister).

[kalnel]

In view of the pandemic and all the other complications, wouldn't it make more sense for them to transfer Joachim to a hospital in Denmark as soon as he can travel?

Also, has the court reported that he actually had a stroke? A few years ago, Hillary Clinton had a blood clot on the brain, and she did not have a stroke. She bounced back quickly -- hopefully Joachim will do the same.

[suztav]

If anyone from the family travels to France I believe that it will be Fredrik. Too chancy for QMII to travel due to Covid19 risks with her age.

[HereditaryPrincess]

Yikes, I hope Joachim has a speedy recovery. It must be especially worrying sending a relative to hospital now with everything that's gone on this year.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by kalnel

In view of the pandemic and all the other complications, wouldn't it make more sense for them to transfer Joachim to a hospital in Denmark as soon as he can travel?

Also, has the court reported that he actually had a stroke? A few years ago, Hillary Clinton had a blood clot on the brain, and she did not have a stroke. She bounced back quickly -- hopefully Joachim will do the same.

The wording from the court is "blodprop" = Blood-cloth.
A brain hemorrhage = "hjerneblødning" = Stroke.
But the two terms are often confused here in DK.

So we must assume that it is a blood cloth. However, blood cloths are usually dealt with with medication, or if it is a large blood-cloth with a procedure where the cloth is basically sucked out.
So for the time being we must assume both possibilities to be correct.

[SLV]

Oh dear. I hope he will be better soon and without repercussions from the bloodcloth.

[Prisma]

Wishing Prince Joachim a full recovery and warm thoughts to his family. Scary news.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Somebody

This sounds rather serious; it could very well be a life-altering event. Is there any evidence of heart and vascular diseases being prevalent within the family?

According to a Dutch website by the Heart Foundation; surgery is typically applied if the blood-cloth is in the carotid artery (of course, France may use different guidelines); and thrombolysis (applying medicine) is only useful within 4,5 hours of the onset of symptoms.

Very recently pictures of Felix' 18th birthday were released and seemed to have been taken at Cayx, so I assume they were still spending their holiday there.

Awful news indeed ! Prince Joachim seems to be quite young for major cardiovascular disease or, in this case, a stroke even considering that he is a smoker. That might suggest a family history, but none of his parents or grandparents had early cardiovascular events as far as I know.


EDIT: Having now read other posts, it appears that it might not have been a stroke after all. In any case, I also wish him a speedy and full recovery.

[Countessmeout]

Its a mistake some people make. Clots are one cause of strokes (ischemic strokes). But not all clots will lead to a stroke. 80% of strokes are caused by blood clots (the rest are caused by a burst artery).

Brain clots do present with symptoms similar to a stroke like weakness and loss of vision.

The fact he required surgery, and they didn't simply handle it with medication speaks to size and/or severity. Thankfully brain surgery has become less invasive over the years but it is still not an easy thing.

There has been a growing concern of COVID 19 causing blood clots in patients. I normally wouldn't jump to such a thought but he is relatively young and healthy despite smoking, and no family history.

We will just have to wait and see what happens.

[JR76]

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

There has been a growing concern of COVID 19 causing blood clots in patients.

It is causing blood clots but mostly in the lungs because of a reduced lung capacity. All the people I care for (I work in a Covid-19 unit that cares for elderly diagnosed with the virus in their homes) receive anticoagulants for at least two weeks after they've been diagnosed as a precautionary measure. Naturally a blood clot can travel around.

[Countessmeout]

Originally Posted by JR76

It is causing blood clots but mostly in the lungs because of a reduced lung capacity. All the people I care for (I work in a Covid-19 unit that cares for elderly diagnosed with the virus in their homes) receive anticoagulants for at least two weeks after they've been diagnosed as a precautionary measure. Naturally a blood clot can travel around.

Fortunately working in pediatrics I haven't had to deal with cases first hand.

Unfortunately the danger of clots is since they are in the circulatory system, they can travel to other parts of the body. And have been found in the lungs, but also the brain and even kidneys of covid patients. Right now the majority of blood clots detected have been in the legs, in patients who have been hospitalized with covid.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Somebody

For a moment I thought they kept it secret for a week but that didn't make much sense - especially not when I reread the press release... and verified that the posts about Felix' birthday and the queen at Grasten truly were taken this week.

We'll see whether Mary or Benedikte takes over as Rigsforstander and for how long - I assume until Frederik is appointed regent upon his return (assuming he will join his mother to France; alternatively, they could have decided that Frederik stays in Denmark for the time being and Benedikte joins her sister).

I think Mary will be appointed Rigsforstander. Although the circumstances are unfortunate, it will be a good opportunity for her to be tested and gain experience in this role.

[Muhler]

New details emerging.

https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/in...med-helikopter

Joachim was with his family when the symptoms started, so help was called immediately.
He was first taken to the hospital in Cahor, twenty minutes from Cayx.
From there he was flown to Toulouse where he underwent surgery.

Joachim was conscious and understands what happened.

Rigshospitalet in Copenhagen is in contact with the hospital in Toulouse, also in regards to have him transported to DK.
But you cannot fly after such a procedure, so it will be a while before Joachim can be taken to DK.

This is likely to be life-altering.
Apart from the risk of temporary or permanent paralysis, there is also a risk of cognitive deficiencies or speech impediments.
And many if not most will afterwards suffer from mental exhaustion and an inability to focus on larger projects.

The Facebook page of the DRF has been flooded with well wishes.

[Lee-Z]

Good to hear help was called immediately, in situations like these every second/minute can make a difference to the outcome

Let's hope his recovery will be steady and he'll be able to return home in the near future..

[Muhler]

Yes, he would have been treated and undergoing procedure in Toulouse pretty fast.

0 - Symptoms start.

+ 10 - The family works out that something is seriously wrong and call an ambulance.

+ 25 - The ambulance arrive.

+ 35 - After assessing Joachim and strapping him in, the ambulance leaves for the nearest hospital.

+ 50 - Arrival to the hospital at Cahors.

+ 90 - Doctors assess Joachim and decide this is beyond their capabilities and call in a helicopter and alert Toulouse.

+ 105 - Helicopter arrives.

+ 110 - Helicopter takes off.

+ 135 - Helicopter arrives at Toulouse.

+ 205 - Joachim has been scanned and examined and is now being prepared for surgical procedure. (Via the vein in his thigh.)

- I can't see it possibly happening any faster than this.

[Duke of Marmalade]

thank you for all the updates. very shocking. i wish the family strength and joachim to recover as well as possible.