General News about Joachim, Marie and Family 2: August 2009 - January 2011

[Muhler]

Summary of article in Billed Bladet #39, 2010.
Klar til vuggestue - Ready for nursery.
Written by Henrik Salling, who now seem to specialize in our Marie.

Bette Henrik is litterally standing on his own two feet now, as he demonstrated at bit carefully at the recent fair in Fjerritslev, where he charmed everybody in sight.

He is now to attend a nursery in Møgeltønder, right outside Schackenborg Manor. He will start in a month from now, almost seventeen months old.
Princess Marie explained to our reporter: "In a months time he is to start in a nursery in Møgeltønder and it will be a bot odd to hand him over.

Eventhough the fair Marie and her Joachim spend a considerable amount of time in Copenhagen, Schackenborg is their home and where they do spend most of their time. So in order for the wee Henrik to learn to interact with other children, to maintain their (considerable ) connection with Southern Jutland in general and Møgeltønder in particular and also for him to have as normal an upbringing as possible.

He displayed traits of being a friendly boy, because at the fair he was willing to share a pack of crayons with a three year old Silke. Silke was a bit apprehensive of all the photograhers and stayed close to her mother. Henrik, despite his young age is not at all disturbed by flashlight and adults acting weird.

I'll leave it to the moderators to decide whether it's time for a specific thread about Prince (Bette) Henrik.

[Muhler]

I need some advise from the moderators, where is the appropriate place to post a translation like this, which is about Joachim as a person?

Billed Bladet #41, 2007-10-12.

Joachim vandt sit livs kamp – Joachim won the struggle of his life.

It was England’s Queen Elizabeth who in a New Year speech about her own family in 1992 used the expression: “It has been a annus horribilis”…. A terrible year.
The same expression could very appropriately have been used by Denmark’s Prince Joachim about the year 2004. It was here that he in October was officially separated from Princess Alexandra. But prior to that more than a year had passed in which the decision about the divorce had already been made. Many months where Joachim however had to carry the secret – that he was getting a divorce. Alexandra and the Prince did not match together when the first love and fascination had settled and the children had been added.
So simple and so sad was it. It was the difference that led to the divorce. Among the consequences of the difference was for example that Alexandra in contrast to Joachim never established a network of friends and acquaintances among the locals in Møgeltønder and the surrounding area.
And no, Alexandra had NOT begun her relationship with Martin Jørgensen, when the separation was decided. Several close sources confirm that for Billed Bladet.
You could tell by looking at Joachim back then three years ago. He was certainly not well. Partially because the failure of a marriage is always experienced as a personal defeat with both shattered illusions and emotions.
Partly because you just don’t get divorced in the DRF….
But Prince Joachim was.
Mentally he was like a groggy boxer who had almost lost his footing and now had to find his legs again. The dream about the happy nuclear family was definitively shattered and then came the front pages of the papers, which Joachim on discotheque, Joachim with young blondes, Joachim as a speed devil and more of that kind. To that came that Joachim’s otherwise good relationship to his brother, the Crown Prince, for a long period after the separation was almost on ice. The combination of Frederik establishing his own family while Joachim was in the middle of a divorce meant that the brothers quite literally moved away from each other.

What exactly went wrong remains a secret between the two of them.
But after a couple of tough months Prince Joachim chose to deal with his own crisis as a man.
- “The Prince can when under pressure seem both sensitive and frail. In that way you can tell when hi is in a good mood and when is in bad mood. But he also has an in-build filter, that among other things deflect the bad and often erroneously talk in the media. It affects him, yes. But not to such an extent that he doesn’t sleep at night. He is very strong”, says a source close to Joachim.
The Prince had lost the love and probably some of the respect among the otherwise very royal-minded Danish people. To that came his sad appearance as the weeks went by, was in stark contrast to the visible happiness of Alexandra.
But then something happened. In one hand Prince Joachim threw himself into a veritable work-fury, which has really lasted ever since. What few may have known is that Joachim has always been one of the most hard-working members of the DRF. Now he with even more zest worked for his 60 protections and represented the DRF more often, more openly and more accessible than he otherwise used to.
You might think that this work- and charm offensive was a deliberately calculated strategy worked out from the highest place in co-operation with Joachim.
But that’s not how it was.
The truth is that Joachim is his own spin doctor. The truth was that the Prince al his adult life has had both a deep felt commitment and a great pleasure with his work.

Not just when it comes to the protections but also in respect to the farming at Schackenborg. He took it over as a derelict manor, surrounded by sandy march-soil. In farming circles it looked in advance as a losing case. But by being almost uniquely hard-working, innovative and progressive the Prince managed to turn Schackenborg into profitable farm. Only naturally the respect in agricultural circles has grown similarly.
Part of Joachim’s success has been created despite. For example despite that his economical situation in contrast to the myths is relatively strained. Despite being born with a golden spoon in the mouth and a yearly apanage from the government, he has particularly after the divorce not had much to do with. There is partly the alimonies to Alexandra, partly a sort of “double house keeping” in Schackenborg and Copenhagen. In contrast to other members of the DRF Joachim is not showered with neither free gifts nor added privileges. Few know for example that he from his own pocket has to pay a number of expenses in connection with his work.
The future wife of the Prince, Marie Cavallier, will as such not move into a world where there is room to spend freely.
The truth is also that it understandably enough was a difficult struggle for him to appear smiling in public after a long year with private problems. But he did it. And the media followed him even more that they had prior to the divorce. In that way it finally dawned on the world that the Prince is both hard-working and skilled. The respect was thus quickly recovered.
Also in the private front did Joachim make a couple of chess moves, which no spin-doctor could have conceived of better. Very quickly after the divorce he smilingly let himself photograph as a weekend-father with the boys, Nikolai and Felix.

A couple of casual strolls around Amalienborg was not at all casual. The message was clear as day: - Look, I take care of my children.
During the three years that has passed Joachim has time and time again in public shown that the divorce has ended happily as possibly. Both in relation to the children and their parents – and the parent’s new partners.
To comes that the private close friends all the way through ups and downs have supported both Joachim and Alexandra. As early as the summer of 2004 the friends made a discreet pact, the clear purpose of that being that all backed up behind both the Prince and the Princess. Neither of the friends would take sides for anyone. They have kept that promise to this day.
What may surprise many: Joachim is also a soft man. He for example often talks with his male friends about his innermost feelings. (*) And the trust he thus show them is as strong as if they were blood-brothers. He knows them all from school and as such they have not been chosen based on neither land nor gold.
Among the most confident is the quintet Christian Ahlefeldt-Laurvig, Christian Scherfig, Simon Bast, Oscar Siesbye and Michael Darsberg.
The first meeting with Marie Cavallier is somewhat obscure. But it happened in Denmark, to where Marie had been invited by a friend from the boarding school in Switzerland. It wasn’t love at first sight. Apart from that Joachim was yet not officially single and Marie was still in a relationship with a Frenchman she had known for a number of years.
It was only in Spring 2005 that Joachim and Marie met again and in August the same year that had a secret vacation in France together.
“I love Joachim”, said Marie finally to Billed Bladet’s Anna Johannesen in March 2006. At that time they had secretly been sweethearts for about a year.
“We are not sweethearts anymore”, said Marie to Billed Bladet only four months later, in July 2006. Prince Joachim confirmed what Marie said just a week later.
The guessing in the media-pond was that they probably still were sweethearts. That they just wanted to avoid the press.

But that’s not how it was. The truth is that they like adults agreed on a break to reflect – primarily of concern for Marie. She needed time to think things through thoroughly, what sort of life she was saying yes to. An adventure, yes. But also an adventure where the manuscript has been written in advance. With the prince on the white horse comes also always both obligations and limitations, and Marie needed time to deal with those during her chosen time of reflection.
“I’m cautious with love”, said Joachim to Billed Bladet’s Trine Larsen while the break lasted.
It lasted five months, the break. In December 2006 they were together again – and last week came the engagement. Marie Cavallier has accepted the manuscript and both are very happy and serene.
To that comes a couple of pleasant added winnings which applies to all in the DRF:
Partly that Marie is French. That has understandably been jubilantly received by her future father-in-law, the Prince Consort.
Partly that Prince Joachim and his brother, the Crown Prince, yet again are so close, confident in each other and happy as they were in the years before the divorce.
As a source close to the Princes say: “The vacuum that had grown between the two brothers, has now been filled again”.

Written by Peter Juul. (He sometimes writes royal articles as well).

(*) To me this is an indication that the source here is a woman. Being myself of the same generation as Joachim, we certainly do often talk to our most trusted friends about what really we feel. We just rarely say that we talk about such matters.

[lyndaW]

Muhler, thank you for posting this article. Again it shows Joachim is human and although he got off the path for a short time he had the inner strength to overcome a bitter disapointment and move on.
Although I think he and his brother still need to work on their relationship, perhaps they need still more time to heal

[Muhler]

You are welcome LyndaW.

Billed Bladet informs us that Bette Henrik has recently started in Møgeltønder Børnehus. A nursery located in the village right next to Schackenborg Manor.

[windsorgirl]

Originally Posted by Muhler

You are welcome LyndaW.

Billed Bladet informs us that Bette Henrik has recently started in Møgeltønder Børnehus. A nursery located in the village right next to Schackenborg Manor.

I did not follow the DRF much when Joachim and Alexandra were married, but it seems that Joachim and Marie are making Schackenborg their real home base (as you would expect with it being their main residence) more so than Alexandra ever did. For example I do not believe that Felix and Nikolai attended nursery school outside of Copenhagen as Henrik is now doing. I am happy to see Joachim and Marie establishing their own life in the country.

[UserDane]

That is the same feeling I get about the couple Windsorgirl. Marie seems to tying some strong bonds with her patronages in the area which I find really good.

[Charlotte1]

Originally Posted by windsorgirl

I did not follow the DRF much when Joachim and Alexandra were married, but it seems that Joachim and Marie are making Schackenborg their real home base (as you would expect with it being their main residence) more so than Alexandra ever did. For example I do not believe that Felix and Nikolai attended nursery school outside of Copenhagen as Henrik is now doing. I am happy to see Joachim and Marie establishing their own life in the country.

Neither Nikolai nor Felix attended any nursery school. This was mainly due to Alexandra's view that 3 years old was young enough to begin schooling. Nikolai however when he turned 3 did attend kindergarten in Mogeltonder, when Felix turned 3 his parents were separated and Alexandra was based in Copenhagen and so he attended kindergarten in Copenhagen.

When Joachim and Alexandra were married they did spend most of their time at Schackenborg, the only difference with Marie is that she has local patronages which Alexandra didn't.

[windsorgirl]

Originally Posted by Charlotte1

Neither Nikolai nor Felix attended any nursery school. This was mainly due to Alexandra's view that 3 years old was young enough to begin schooling. Nikolai however when he turned 3 did attend kindergarten in Mogeltonder, when Felix turned 3 his parents were separated and Alexandra was based in Copenhagen and so he attended kindergarten in Copenhagen.

When Joachim and Alexandra were married they did spend most of their time at Schackenborg, the only difference with Marie is that she has local patronages which Alexandra didn't.

Thank you, Charlotte. I didn't know about the extent to which Alexandra lived at Schackenborg in those days nor her views on preschool (with which I happen to agree).

[stellam]

Muhler,

With both brothers now happily married, obviously they may not be that close because of family life, but do you think the rift between the two has healed?

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by stellad

Muhler,

With both brothers now happily married, obviously they may not be that close because of family life, but do you think the rift between the two has healed?

Funny you should ask that question. BT has a frontpage story about just that topic today. Unfortunately our local gasstation/kiosk don't have BT (not enough sale) and I won't bother drive just for a paper today.
Apparantly Joachim has told the paper that he and Frederik have a fine relationship. But that's all I can make out.

I believe they had a cool period after Joachim seperated and got divorced but in the portrait book Joachim took the blame on himself and indicated that they have healed their relationship. So I guess that's as close to the truth as we may get.

However, I also believe they have to a considerable extent grown apart. Different friends, different interests and they don't see each other that often. Something both sides have admitted.

[stellam]

Thanks Muhler. Will be interesting to see what is written in the article. Hopefully one of the other Danish Board members will be able to share some info with us.

[dazzling]

Has this article emerged because Frederik and his family are not spending Christmas at Joachims place with the rest of the family?

Joachim & Frederik may have had their problems but they seem to be close or at least happy in each other company at varioues events they attened. Marie & Mary seem to also get along with each other.

[nwinther]

I'll give it a go (grabbed it from Prins Joachim: Mit og Kronprinsens forhold er rigtig godt | Starlounge 31-10-2010).

Both have previously told how they drifted apart. But now, says Prince Joachim, 41, the relationship between him and Crown Prince Frederik, 42, is "really good".

- Mine and the Crown Princes' relatioship is really good. We are good brothers to each other. The magazines who want to sell covers on made-up stories can write whatever they want. It does not affect me or the Crown Prince. What's been written now and again, is not the facts. It is that simple. None of us seems to be shaken by what is being written, says Prince Joachim to BT

Lately there's been some focus on the distance between the two brothers, when Crown Prince Frederik and Crown Princess Mary told the family about her twin pregnancy - just over two months after the pregnancy was confirmed.

- Some messages you just don't give over the phone, said Prince Joachim to Ekstra Bladet, and conceded in that manner that he had not seen his brother in months.

According Trine Villemann, who has written two books on the monarchy, the two brothers, after all, still love each other.

- Joachim is royal to fingertips and know to keep family dramas within the palace walls and away from the public (the press.) He would NEVER say that he and Fred is no longer as close as they once were. NEVER! Explains Villemann in an interview with MSN Starlounge.

- It is natural that a sibling relationship changes when there are spouses, but during the marriage to Alexandra - at least the first few years - Frederik and Joachim were still very closely linked.
Let us not forget that Joachim in their childhood protected his sensitive older brother by taking the blame for some of Frederick's accident to save him from papas beating. He has always been totally loyal to Frederik. When the boys got bodyguards, he told them. "It's Frederik you must look after, for he shall be king." And then he's "rewarded" with being told the fantastic news of the twin pregnancies at the same time as the rest of the population?

Prince Joachim's divorce from Countess Alexandra coincided with Frederik and Mary's wedding and it was, according to Joachim one of the reasons that he did not include his older brother in his problems.

- And maybe my brother felt a little snubbed because I did not share it with him. But maybe it was also my way of acting, when you stand in an unknown situation and don't want to show signs of weakness. I would not bother him with it when he was in his happiest place and without the opportunity to provide experience, " says Joachim in Gitte Redder and Karin Palshøjs book "Frederik - Crown Prince of Denmark."

- I think I disappointed him a lot by not using him more, he acknowledges in the book.

According Trine Villemann Crown Princess Mary has come between Prince Joachim and Crown Prince Frederik.

- Mary has come between the brothers, it's as simple as that. She is a girl from the province - from the other side of the world, but Hobart's far from a metropolis! - And there is NOTHING wrong with that, but when you are not born as royalty and raised with all the pomp, circumstance and intrigue that goes along with that, it can be difficult when Joachim with his photographic momory and VERY royal style, makes his center of knowledge available for less well-read creatures, says Trine Villemann.

- Mary pulls Frederik away Joachim, and I feel sorry for Frederik, because I think he misses his little brother. Joachim is the one who has been closest to Frederik for most of his life, and it's a gap which Mary and the kids can not fill.

Erik Brandt, who is one of Prince Henry's closest friends, told BT that Prince Joachim and Crown Prince "is getting along, now."

- I don't comment on the Royal house out of sheer principle. But I must say that Fred has always been my darling, while Joachim has become very soft, sympathetic and humane, after he has been married to the lovely girl who Marie is," said Eric Brandt.

- I think he and Fred are feeling better and better together, but they've always had a good time together.

Sorry for any misunderstandings in spelling and translation. I know it's not the BT article, but it touches on the same subject.

[Emmily]

Isn't this the author that wrote the book on the DRF not long ago? How do those of you who are in Denmark feel about her and can you really take her word in the above article? She seems very biased against the DRF. JMHO

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Emmily

Isn't this the author that wrote the book on the DRF not long ago? How do those of you who are in Denmark feel about her and can you really take her word in the above article? She seems very biased against the DRF. JMHO

Her books were torn apart by reviewers.

Her arguments and claims cannot hold when looked at more closely.

She has a tendency to very much rely on unnamed sources, which cannot be verified.

I personally do not consider Trine Villemann credible.

But let's have a closer look at what she said in Nwinter's excellent translation. My notes are based on the numbers in bold:

---------------
According Trine Villemann, who has written two books on the monarchy, the two brothers, after all, still love each other.

- Joachim is royal to fingertips and know to keep family dramas within the palace walls and away from the public (the press.) He would NEVER say that he and Fred is no longer as close as they once were. NEVER! Explains Villemann in an interview with MSN Starlounge. (1)

- It is natural that a sibling relationship changes when there are spouses, but during the marriage to Alexandra - at least the first few years - Frederik and Joachim were still very closely linked.
Let us not forget that Joachim in their childhood protected his sensitive older brother by taking the blame for some of Frederick's accident to save him from papas beating. (2) He has always been totally loyal to Frederik. When the boys got bodyguards, he told them. "It's Frederik you must look after, for he shall be king." (3) And then he's "rewarded" with being told the fantastic news of the twin pregnancies at the same time as the rest of the population? (4)

Prince Joachim's divorce from Countess Alexandra coincided with Frederik and Mary's wedding and it was, according to Joachim one of the reasons that he did not include his older brother in his problems. (5)

- And maybe my brother felt a little snubbed because I did not share it with him. But maybe it was also my way of acting, when you stand in an unknown situation and don't want to show signs of weakness. I would not bother him with it when he was in his happiest place and without the opportunity to provide experience, " says Joachim in Gitte Redder and Karin Palshøjs book "Frederik - Crown Prince of Denmark." (6)

- I think I disappointed him a lot by not using him more, he acknowledges in the book.

According Trine Villemann Crown Princess Mary has come between Prince Joachim and Crown Prince Frederik.

- Mary has come between the brothers, it's as simple as that. She is a girl from the province - from the other side of the world, but Hobart's far from a metropolis! (7) - And there is NOTHING wrong with that, but when you are not born as royalty and raised with all the pomp, circumstance and intrigue (8) that goes along with that, it can be difficult when Joachim with his photographic momory and VERY royal style, makes his center of knowledge available for less well-read creatures, says Trine Villemann.

- Mary pulls Frederik away Joachim, and I feel sorry for Frederik, because I think he misses his little brother. Joachim is the one who has been closest to Frederik for most of his life, and it's a gap which Mary and the kids can not fill. (9)

-----

(1) That is very much common knowledge. Joachim does not hang the laundry out to dry in public.

(2) It's the first time I've personally hear about Joachim taking the blame for Frederik. The comment by TV also indicates that Henrik more or less caned his children. There is no evidence to suggest that. He brought them up in a stern way and and he is no against spanking should it be necessary, but there is no evidence that he actually did beat Frederik and Joachim.

(3) They were attached PET officers in the mid 70's or so, just as QMII herself. I find it very hard to believe that a boy aged between 8-12 would say something like that! Especially using that choice of words. Correction around 9-10 years old, as Frederik was told that he would become king at the age of ten. He was incidentally a bit envious of Joachim, who was to inherit a manor, while he (Frederik) was to inherit a country. What was he supposed to do with a country? (Quoting Frederik from memory, but verifiable).

(4) The media were full of rumours at that time, so M&F may have planned to break the news to the family at Gråsten, then go public a little later on. That was no longer public. It's pure speculation and so is TV's claim.

(5) Correct, he stated that in the portrait book of Frederik.

(6) This is a summary of what Joachim said in the book and not a direct quote. (I've translated that part myself).

(7) Mary grew up in Hobart, that would hardly make her provincial in itself, would it? She spend several years in Sydney, unless of course Sydney is a pretty provincial town.

(8) Intrique? What intrique? Joachim is known not to be snobbish, despite his otherwise "aristocratic" demeanour.

(9) A dramatic claim! Even if it was true, surely Frederik is able to think for himself? Is Mary physically preventing him from seeing Joachim? Hardly.
Frederik is married to Mary, he would be a sorry husband and father if he did not put his wife and children first, in my opinion.

[H.M. Margrethe]

Originally Posted by Emmily

Isn't this the author that wrote the book on the DRF not long ago? How do those of you who are in Denmark feel about her and can you really take her word in the above article? She seems very biased against the DRF. JMHO

Yes it´s the same ridicilus author §!"#¤%&/

[windsorgirl]

I think it is unfair to say that Mary has torn the brothers apart. In regular families, when siblings marry and start families, their focus and priorities naturally shift. It does not mean that they love their siblings any less. I choose to believe that it is the same case here, especially since they live in different parts of the country. No need to throw blame around IMO. (Though perhaps happy family stories do not generate $$ for their authors.)

[nwinther]

Originally Posted by Muhler

(2) It's the first time I've personally hear about Joachim taking the blame for Frederik. The comment by TV also indicates that Henrik more or less caned his children. There is no evidence to suggest that. He brought them up in a stern way and and he is no against spanking should it be necessary, but there is no evidence that he actually did beat Frederik and Joachim.

This may be my fault. The danish wording was "klø" - which means physical punishment of some sort - sometimes in the extreme. I chose beating.

Originally Posted by Muhler

(8) Intrique? What intrique? Joachim is known not to be snobbish, despite his otherwise "aristocratic" demeanour.

Again - this is my chosen translation. In danish she says "sang- og julelege", litterally meaning "song- and christmas games". Had she said "spil" (game) instead of leg (play) I would better understand it in danish - and translate it. And adding sang- and jule- completely screws up any meaning IMO. I took it to mean something along the lines of court-intrigue (and pomp and circumstance).

That said & done - Muhler makes some good points. I think TV is drawing on her established "sources" i.e. out-of-the-blue fantasies and make-belive fitting her own agenda. Mary is supposed to be this cold-hearted bitch who'd step over her dead mother to cause pain and hardship for most anyone, only keeping up the most superficial appearance. Driving a wedge between brothers would apparantly be her mission in life.

[Muhler]

Thank you, nwinther I'm glad we are in agreement in regards to TV.

And I did check the original text. I would have translated it in the same way.
Klø = beating, caning, thrashing. Had it been "lussing" or "endefuld" the meaing would have been milder, and probably more in line with what Prince Henrik believe in himself. I.e. that it may be necessary from time to time to smack a child on the cheek (lussing) or in the behind (endefuld).

And as for intrique, that's also how I interpreted TV's meaning with her expression.
As usual she "spiced" her remarks. - Which would be fine if she would just back it up with something verifiable. But no....

Originally Posted by nwinther

This may be my fault. The danish wording was "klø" - which means physical punishment of some sort - sometimes in the extreme. I chose beating.



Again - this is my chosen translation. In danish she says "sang- og julelege", litterally meaning "song- and christmas games". Had she said "spil" (game) instead of leg (play) I would better understand it in danish - and translate it. And adding sang- and jule- completely screws up any meaning IMO. I took it to mean something along the lines of court-intrigue (and pomp and circumstance).

That said & done - Muhler makes some good points. I think TV is drawing on her established "sources" i.e. out-of-the-blue fantasies and make-belive fitting her own agenda. Mary is supposed to be this cold-hearted bitch who'd step over her dead mother to cause pain and hardship for most anyone, only keeping up the most superficial appearance. Driving a wedge between brothers would apparantly be her mission in life.

[Muhler]

Summary of article in Billed Bladet #44, 2010.
Vi laver vores egne traditioner - We will be making our own traditions.
Written by Ken Richter.

Who cornered Joachim during a hunt (for red deer) at Klosterhede in central Jutland. Here Joachim said that the plans for celebrating Christmas weren't completed yet.
"We have to find our own way to celebrate Christmas and I think it will be a mix of French and danish traditions".

However, Ken Richter believe that one typical Danish tradition may remain: Roast Pork. A dish which Our Marie has claimed to have surrendered to. (*)

Queen Margrethe has previously stated that the traditions around Christmas are fixed, they cannot be changed. - But she is not the host this time.

Joachim would not rule out that members of la Marie's family would also be present at Christmas.
"It's still too early to say whether the entire family will gather at Schackenborg".

- It should delight the locals in Møgeltønder. This year the Royal Lifeguard may be standing guard outside Schackenborg. That should make a neat postcard or two. And as Queen Margrethe is an eager churchgoer, we can expect to see her in Møgeltønder Church at least a couple of times and perhaps also in a church in the nearby town of Tønder. Joachim and Henrik are less eager when it comes to going to church. Not sure about Princess Marie though.

(*) An interesting remark by Ken Richter as the DRF usually does not have roast pork for Christmas, like a very large segment of the Danish population. Including my own family. Roast Pork: http://www.peter-hansen.org/reallife/food/flaeskesteg/
It's absolutely delicious! And no, it isn't fattening. - Until tomorrow...