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  #341  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:54 AM
Muhler's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
I don't doubt they do. But secret, informal, confidential, non-scheduled, non-published, without minutes meetings between the military and the royal family shouldn't take place.

I think experience (recent cases within the military itself come to mind) has shown that seniority isn't always a guarantee for credibility

You're comparing a royal's "right" (of which he has none) to receive briefings by some of the highest-ranking officers in the country that haven't been authorised by the government to... freedom of the press? That's not just extremes, that's straight up disrespectful to all the journalists that put their lives at risk to report.

First, I can only urge you to read the article whose raison d'être you're refuting. I think it would answer a lot of your questions and you wouldn't have to resort to making up far-fetched what-if scenarios to back up your point. As I've mentioned earlier, OLFI have multiple sources independent of each other confirming that it was agreed to keep the meetings a secret. Are you questioning their credibility? Furthermore, if we run with the suggestion that the sources aren't telling the ruth, if the MoD and/or the government had been informed of these meetings, why abstain from keeping minutes?

Yes, interchanging governments being notoriously afraid to face up to the DRF and a lack demonstrations means it can't be important That sure is an interesting ethical standpoint, what a counterargument.
Not taking minutes is sort of the whole idea of an unofficial, informal meeting...

I shall read the report, when I get around to do it. Right now I have more important things to do than worrying about this, - our dog is right now training me to throw sticks (and pieces of sausages) and that takes up a lot of my time.

Alas, you are quite right in your criticism against senior officers, being an officer does not necessarily make you a good economist, good at business dealings or good at communications. That's a problem that has been around pretty much as long as there has been such a thing as an organized military. - And in every country.
I can well imagine the commander of Trelleborg (a Viking fortification around 950) bought 6.000 spears at way too high prices.
The connection between this and Frederik as pretty much the only one in the kingdom (according to you) having no rights to meet with, let alone learn anything, from government officials outside very rigid channels seem somewhat tenuous to me.

And don't be so dramatic. No journalists in DK are in any particular danger of losing their lives, let alone their jobs. But many if not most journalists here in DK do seem to have a overrated view of themselves.

I think we can safely conclude that this discussion, no matter what, will lead to the same end: To me this is no big deal. To you it is.
How monumental I can only imagine.
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  #342  
Old 01-22-2020, 02:35 AM
Archduchess Zelia's Avatar
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If the government had been notified of the meetings, surely they would stop being unofficial. This point is moot, however, as the government clearly hasn't either authorised the meetings or been made aware of them.

Wait, you're accusing me of making tenuous comparisons? I believe you were the one that brought up the subject of mistrust to begin with. And for the 100th time, please stop putting words in my mouth. I have never argued that Frederik shouldn't be allowed to meet these officers. But I have argued that the government should be made aware of the fact that these meetings are taking place and that minutes should be kept.

Well, you're (somehow) equating the freedom of the press to Frederik's (non-existent) right to receive briefings from high-ranking military officers without the sitting governments knowledge. Since we're talking the freedom of the press (which isn't exclusive to the Danish press), I don't think it's unreasonable to find the comparison to a royal not being able to follow fairly simple guidelines inappropriate.
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  #343  
Old 01-22-2020, 04:38 AM
Muhler's Avatar
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Unofficial is outside the normal proper channels, you seemingly hold so dear, otherwise they wouldn't be unofficial, would they? And the topics of unofficial/informal/secret etc. meetings are usually not recorded.

I have stated my opinion and you have certainly made a point of saying my arguments lacks substance - fair enough. But surely I am within my rights to find some of your arguments tenuous? Which I do.
That's not an accusation, it's an opinion.

I was not aware I was putting words into your mouth.
The very core of your argument has been that Frederik does not have the right to meet informally/unofficial/secret with these officers. That is an argument you have repeatedly pointed out. Hence "according to you."
I do not agree. I believe Frederik has a fundamental right to legally acquire information outside the "proper channels." - The same right as you and I.
I firmly believe that limiting that right, for anyone, is a very dangerous move!

Yeees, the poor journalists... While many journalists worldwide are subjected to danger I don't think that applies to journalists here in DK...
My point was, and still is, that the right to gather information surely also applies to Frederik. - Not only to journalists.

I think this discussion is about to reach an endpoint.
It is very clear to me (that's my opinion) that we see things very differently on a basic level. Also that we view the importance of this in a very different perspective. To me this a trivial matter, while it is orders of magnitudes more important to you. (That is my impression. Not putting words into your mouth, it is important, nay, crucial for me to point that out.)
I also believe (not stating a fact) that it is abundantly clear by now where you and I stand, also to the handful of readers suffering from insomnia who still follow this debate.
  #344  
Old 01-22-2020, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I think this discussion is about to reach an endpoint.

I also believe (not stating a fact) that it is abundantly clear by now where you and I stand,
Thank you!!
  #345  
Old 01-22-2020, 04:26 PM
Muhler's Avatar
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However, I have to follow up with this:
https://www.bt.dk/politik/udmelding-...olketingssalen

Without further comments from me though, as it doesn't change my viewpoint nor what I have argued.

Today the Minister of Defense, Trine Bramsen, was asked in a Q&A in the Parliament about the meetings Frederik has had with senior officers.

Trine Bramsen replied:
Forsvarschefen har til Forsvarsministeriet oplyst, at der er tale om sammenkomster under private former, hvorfor der ikke drøftes konkrete eller følsomme forhold for Forsvaret.
- Det bliver jeg nødt til at henholde mig til. Det er klart, at drøftelser og beslutninger om konkrete eller følsomme forhold om Forsvaret skal ske via de officielle kanaler


"The Defense Chief has to the Ministry of Defense informed that it is private gettogethers/meetings, and as such no specific or sensitive issues in relation to the Defense are discussed.
I have to take that ad notam/relate to that. It is clear/obvious that discussions and decisions about specific or sensitive issues about the Defense must take place via the official channels.

Bramsen siger, at hun ikke har nogen holdning til rådgivningen af kronprinsen.

- Men jeg har en holdning til, at drøftelser og beslutninger om konkrete og følsomme oplysninger, der vedrører Forsvaret, skal foregå via de officielle kanaler, siger hun.

Bramsen mener ikke, at hun i denne sag kan løfte pegefingeren. Hun henviser til svaret fra forsvarschefen.


Trine Bramsen says that she has no opinion on how the Crown Prince is adviced/to the advising of the Crown Prince.
"But I have an opinion in regards to discussions and decisions about specific and sensitive informations regarding the Defense must take place via the official channels."
Trine Bramsen does not believe she in this case can raise an (admonishing) finger. She refers to the reply from the Defense Chief. (That the meetings were private gatherings.)
  #346  
Old 01-23-2020, 12:26 AM
Archduchess Zelia's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Unofficial is outside the normal proper channels, you seemingly hold so dear, otherwise they wouldn't be unofficial, would they? And the topics of unofficial/informal/secret etc. meetings are usually not recorded (...)
You said that my argument is that Frederik has "no rights to meet with, let alone learn anything, from government officials outside very rigid channels" which is incorrect. There are multiple ways for him to learn beyond either stringently receiving updates at councils of state or having secret meetings with inner circle of the military.

The freedom of the press that you find comparable to Frederik's "right" to hold secret meetings with the miitary is not exclusive to Danish journalists. Hence the impropriety of the comparison. On the subject of Frederik's "right to gather information": For the life of me, I can't see what right any royal should have to be given information that can't be run by the sitting minister? I'd venture that all the information he needs to be a good coming commander-in-chief of the Danish military is available to him through the proper channels.

You may call me pedantic or think I'm overreacting but in a constitutional monarchy there are just a handful of playing rules the royals need to abide by in respect of the representative democracy they're existing within and to avoid any doubt about their political neutrality.
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  #347  
Old 01-23-2020, 03:15 AM
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If you say so...
  #348  
Old 01-23-2020, 08:27 AM
Muhler's Avatar
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Update on Verbier.

Frederik attended an event earlier today and here he was asked a few questions of interest to this thread.

https://www.bt.dk/royale/nu-taler-kr...t-goer-indtryk

First about the children in Verbier:
"It's great to see that the children have settled really well in the school and speak English and a little French."

And asked what the children are most fond of, he replied:
"They are fond of... they think it's exciting to wear school uniforms. And to have new school-mates as well.
Of course it's fun when you get to go skiing a little afterwards."

Then he was asked into their house in Verbier and to that he responded:
"Obviously the Crown Princess and I have noticed the focus of the last weeks on our present life in Switzerland and it makes an impression, it does indeed."
  #349  
Old 01-23-2020, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Update on Verbier.

Frederik attended an event earlier today and here he was asked a few questions of interest to this thread.

https://www.bt.dk/royale/nu-taler-kr...t-goer-indtryk

First about the children in Verbier:
"It's great to see that the children have settled really well in the school and speak English and a little French."

And asked what the children are most fond of, he replied:
"They are fond of... they think it's exciting to wear school uniforms. And to have new school-mates as well.
Of course it's fun when you get to go skiing a little afterwards."

Then he was asked into their house in Verbier and to that he responded:
"Obviously the Crown Princess and I have noticed the focus of the last weeks on our present life in Switzerland and it makes an impression, it does indeed."
Sad! The Crown Prince couple have worked tireless the last 15 years as the most hardworking royals in the DRF and now they take 12 weeks do to a thing for children and as a family and then Frederik & Mary has the feeling that we don’t think they deserve it. That breaks my heart. Its only the tabloid newspaper who thinks that, and clear the people indeed thinks they both deserve it and that it is a wonderful education for the royal children. I hope Frederik and Mary, and the kids, can enjoy the weeks. They deserve it!

Great to hear the children have settled really well in the school course
  #350  
Old 01-23-2020, 11:10 AM
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It's great to hear an update from Frederik during his two events today.
Kids are quick to pick up new languages especially when they are immersed in it.
And yes, I am sure he and Mary noticed and anticipated the criticism. A calculated decision for their family time.
https://www.billedbladet.dk/kongelig...aa-mary-og-mig

And thank you for the article from the Minister of defense and the Defense Chief. All is well
  #351  
Old 01-23-2020, 12:31 PM
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It has emerged that Frederik, prior to buying the house in Verbier, owned an apartment in Paris:
https://www.bt.dk/kendte/kronprinsen...u-er-den-solgt

That has been confirmed by the court. The apartment has been sold for an undisclosed amount.

The story is in the magazine Her & Nu, but it doesn't seem to be online, so I assume it's in the magazine edition this week.
I wonder if anyone has bought the magazine?

- As we know Mary worked in Paris for a period prior to officially moving to DK. I wonder if the apartment was bought back then?
It could also have been bought when Frederik worked at the Danish embassy. But that was some ten years before Mary.
I imagine that even a very small apartment in Paris was a good investment.
  #352  
Old 01-23-2020, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
It has emerged that Frederik, prior to buying the house in Verbier, owned an apartment in Paris:
https://www.bt.dk/kendte/kronprinsen...u-er-den-solgt
.
I read about the apartment in Paris years and years ago. Can't remember where or when.
Seems there are many things that the Danish press doesn't know or can't remember...
  #353  
Old 01-24-2020, 04:34 PM
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Selective memory is a bliss...

So what is more appropriate that posting this non-story:
https://www.bt.dk/royale/kronprinspa...udlejningssite

It's about the house in Verbier owned by M&F. BT has found a reference to it on another site, that apparently just links to houses that can be rented (and obviously hasn't been updated) but BT angles the story as M&F may still being renting out the place even though it is no longer for rent by the agency. Like I said a non-story.

However, of interest to us, are the photos in the article showing the interior of the house, and as these are pictures M&F have okayed themselves I see no problems in posting them here:

So here is a bedroom. Whether it's the one M&F sleeps in I don't know:
https://bt.bmcdn.dk/media/cache/reso...g-rfhfiuer.jpg

The living-room/dining-room:
https://bt.bmcdn.dk/media/cache/reso...tte-34y247.jpg
  #354  
Old 01-24-2020, 04:48 PM
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Interesting. It seems that Paris is a favourite amongst the DRF with Joachim and Marie now being based there (I know that's because Joachim was posted there) - I don't blame them. Paris is my favourite city; too.
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  #355  
Old 01-24-2020, 04:50 PM
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Yes. And hardly surprising.

They can vanish in the crowd.
Both Joachim and Frederik are fluent in French and know French culture, from the inside and they have relatives there, if not in Paris then certainly in France.
  #356  
Old 01-24-2020, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
Interesting. It seems that Paris is a favourite amongst the DRF with Joachim and Marie now being based there (I know that's because Joachim was posted there) - I don't blame them. Paris is my favourite city; too.
I would say it is the favorite city among European royalty.
Several members of the Grand Ducal Family in Luxembourg live in Paris and the Grand Dukes have a home there.
Joachim and Marie from Denmark and their children currently reside there.
Farah Diba also lives in Paris.
I think that some members of the Monaco Royal Family also live in Paris.
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  #357  
Old 02-05-2020, 01:15 AM
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Happy 48th birthday Mary
https://www.instagram.com/p/B8LKLZ4A...=1h8m2891p1k7p
  #358  
Old 02-05-2020, 01:34 AM
eya eya is offline
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Lovely picture!1


Happy Birthday to the Crown Princess!!
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  #359  
Old 02-05-2020, 04:02 AM
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Looking lovely for a 48 year old. Happy Birthday Crown Princess. She and Frederik have done a wonderful raising a family and representing their country.
  #360  
Old 02-05-2020, 10:14 AM
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Lovely photo of a lovely lady!
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