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  #321  
Old 01-15-2020, 04:51 AM
eya eya is offline
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This year, Royal Run is also coming to Greenland.


Royal Run i Grønland | Kongehuset
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  #322  
Old 01-15-2020, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polyesco View Post
(...)
"Every day at 8 am, Frederik and Mary accompany their children to school, distant about fifteen minutes on foot from their chalet except Wednesday, the only day when the whole family goes to school by car because it is the day of the physical education course, in Verbier, it is compulsory skiing ...on Wednesday 8 January, Prince Frederik ordered a birthday cake from the village pastry shop"
From this it sounds like they have followed them for some days (at least the 8. and 9. January) I hope they stayed for only these two days and afterwards left them (and will) leave the children have their only 12 school weeks in privacy. All humans being deserve and have rights to that. Good for Frederik, Mary and children (and Grace) to have these weeks together, a little break. Even Frederik has to take care of the official events and Mary also later this month. You can never really take a short period off if you are a Crown Prince couple I guess, even if one deserve that. I hope the media keeps their part of the deal with the familiy holding the photo session and interview on the first day.
As much as I love following the Crown Prince Family I never like seeing paparazzi photos of them, especially not when they and the children have given the media what they want to avoid papparazi following them.


Looks like and hope they have some good and inspiring weeks :)

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Originally Posted by eya View Post
This year, Royal Run is also coming to Greenland.


Royal Run i Grønland | Kongehuset
How great!

Frederiks second ‘home’. It will be so great.
Royal Run reached out to the entre Danish Kingdom. I like that.
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  #323  
Old 01-15-2020, 12:08 PM
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Yes I also hope they are left alone as much as I enjoy following this family
  #324  
Old 01-15-2020, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by eya View Post
This year, Royal Run is also coming to Greenland.


Royal Run i Grønland | Kongehuset
Fantastic! It was only a matter of time before the Royal run made its official way to Greenland

"On Thursday, May 28, 2020, the Royal Run will be held in the Greenlandic capital, Nuuk, where H.K.H. The Crown Prince also wants to start.

Four days before the launch goes to Royal Run 2020, H.K.H. Crown Prince of Greenland to kick off the Royal Run in the capital, Nuuk. In the Greenlandic part of the national community, it will thus be possible this year to participate in the big running event with the distances "One mile", "5 km" and "10 km". Last year the Crown Prince started the Royal Run in the Faroe Islands, where 4,010 had registered for the race in Klaksvík. That made Royal Run the biggest exercise race ever in the Faroe Islands."

Greenland media
https://sermitsiaq.ag/node/218682#.Xh7ZPDv5hDc.facebook

another article
https://politiken.dk/indland/art7601...-Gr%C3%B8nland
  #325  
Old 01-15-2020, 02:32 PM
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Yes, 4.000 amounts to a little less than 10 % of the entire population of the islands.
That is for logistical reasons unlikely to happen in Greenland this year.

But it would be more than impressive is say 2.000 take part in the Royal Run in Greenland this year.
The capital Nuuk has a population of 16.000.

---------------------

Now to Verbier.

There have since the photoshoot on the 6th been some rumblings in the DK press regarding their house in Verbier.
With some (far left) politicians saying that the public should have been told that they have bought and own a house in Verbier and suggesting that if they can afford a house in Verbier, the apanage is perhaps too high.
I have kept an eye on it, but didn't bother post anything here on TRF. As I considered a part of the "silly season" here after Christmas.
If you can't get attention otherwise - have a go at the DRF. Or if you can't write about something else, write about the DRF.

That has been combined with some (again far left) politicians disapproving that Frederik has met a few times with very high ranking military officers - without going through the formal channels via the Ministry of Defense.
But others have pointed out that surely Frederik is allowed to have a cup of coffee with high ranking military chiefs, most of whom he will have known for years, without calling the Minister of Defense first!
https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/bl...?app_mode=true

You get the picture - low rumbling in the horizon.

https://www.bt.dk/royale/kronprinspa...-mod-65.000-kr

But now it has emerged that M&F rent out their house in Verbier.
For between 41.200 and 65.400 DKK. The chalet is 200 square meters and is one of the oldest wooden houses in Verbier.

- This is guaranteed to generate some criticism!

Personally I can well understand they kept it secret that they own a house in Verbier. Now PET will have to sweep the place for bugs regularly.
And if it is a personal investment, it's IMO none of our business what they use their private fortune for.
Anyway, many if not most, owners of chalets rent it out when they don't use it themselves. Helps to pay for the electricity.
I'm not sure how many ordinary people will be up in arms over this here in DK, because many who own summer cottages here also rent out their cottages when not using it themselves and see it as an investment. (In fact Mrs. Muhler and I have a couple of times considered buying a summer cottage and rent it out from time to time - so it's far from extraordinary.) But you can rest assured the press will write more about this, hence this FYI.
  #326  
Old 01-15-2020, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
Not sure, but the blond woman with them looks a lot like a friend from Australia, Josephine Rechner (?). She is Josephine's godmother.
The boy could be her son.
That would make sense - he seems too familiar with Mary and Frederick in the photos to be a local passerby.
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  #327  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:40 PM
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We are seemingly not going to see Mary again until the end of January, where she will return to DK, for some official duties.
https://www.billedbladet.dk/kongelig...bage-i-danmark

The two scheduled events are on weekdays so it is almost certain the children will remain in Switzerland.
  #328  
Old 01-16-2020, 08:16 PM
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I think the criticism of them having a "secret" house is very fair. The security and their privacy is gonna be used as an excuse for not disclosing it to the public but in reality, it probably has a lot to do with people questioning their means of funding as well.

It was made clear that the chalet was in very poor condition when they purchased it, so I realise we're below the market price for chalets in Verbier. But I still don't think it's unreasonable to question whether or not their apanage is set too high if already in 2009 they have been able to set money aside. Their allowance has only increased since then.

Don't know that they fact that they're renting it out when they're not using it is gonna cause (or is worthy of) an even bigger stir. That's not different from what Joachim and Marie are doing with their home while they're in France.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
That has been combined with some (again far left) politicians disapproving that Frederik has met a few times with very high ranking military officers - without going through the formal channels via the Ministry of Defense.
But others have pointed out that surely Frederik is allowed to have a cup of coffee with high ranking military chiefs, most of whom he will have known for years, without calling the Minister of Defense first!
https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/bl...?app_mode=true
This however, I think is much more grave. It's not just cups of coffee with old friends. These are dinners with senior officers from different branches of the Danish military. He has no place at such dinners. This is (yet another) absurd case of Frederik seemingly not being able to stick to the ground rules that have been laid out for him. Just like the mess that is his membership of the IOC.
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  #329  
Old 01-16-2020, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Now to Verbier.

There have since the photoshoot on the 6th been some rumblings in the DK press regarding their house in Verbier.
With some (far left) politicians saying that the public should have been told that they have bought and own a house in Verbier and suggesting that if they can afford a house in Verbier, the apanage is perhaps too high.
I have kept an eye on it, but didn't bother post anything here on TRF. As I considered a part of the "silly season" here after Christmas.
If you can't get attention otherwise - have a go at the DRF. Or if you can't write about something else, write about the DRF.

[...]
Whether part of "silly season" or not, it provides insight into how a segment of the population views the apanage, so thank you for posting about it.
  #330  
Old 01-17-2020, 12:24 PM
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Well, there is more on the cottage here:
https://www.bt.dk/royale/nu-er-det-o...a-lejemarkedet

M&F had rented out their cottage (I don't think it's grand enough to be called a chalet, but rather a large cottage) previously but that has now been withdrawn.

It has also emerged that the DRF from time to time rent an annex to Chateau Cayx to staff of and friends.
And in the area belong to the hunting lodge in Trend there is a cabin which can be rented by employees at the court.

Joachim and our Marie own a summer house in France, which they also rent out from time to time.

Lene Balleby from the PR office explains that the cottage in Verbier was purchased from the private means of M&F. They took a mortgage in the cottage and Lene Balleby will not rule out that a part of an inheritance was used in paying for the cottage.

But as mentioned before the cottage in Verbier can no longer be rented.
Lene Balleby explains that the circumstances have now changed since it has become public knowledge who owns the house and also for security reasons.

- Right. I have no problems with the DRF owning property they rent out, especially to employees and other trusted persons. That's normal for a medium sized business as the DRF basically is.
I do have a slight issue with the DRF renting out places where they live. I do think it deflates things a bit if I can pay to sleep in the same bed and, pardon me, sit on the same bathroom facilities as M&F.

But as for the DRF earning money on the side, - of course they do. And I see no problems with that. It's no secret that the businessman Frits Schur manages the private investments of the DRF - and as such they earn money from these private investments. The same thing goes for their art collections. Frederik has a considerable collection of modern art and if he sells a peice now and then he surely get a profit. I don't see the difference between that and renting out a cottage.
To me it's more a question of what they invest in.

I think most of us here can agree that having shares in a factory producing landmines would be a huge no no for the DRF.

------------

Now for Frederik and the senior military officers he meet occasionally.

No one knows what they are discussing.
Since Frederik is likely to have worked with them on several occasions and certainly have known them for years, they may talk about old days or discuss tennis - perhaps they also discuss the current security situation in X, Y and B. But we don't know whether the officers are actually telling Frederik things that are highly confidential. But since Frederik attends the State Council meetings his knowledge and security clearance must be considered very high.

The criticism suggest a lack of confidence in Frederik that I don't share and a lack of confidence in the high ranking officers that I don't share at all!
To me this smells more of certain politicians marking their turf and emphasizing that the proper channels go through them - as if Frederik and the officers didn't know that.

So let's take a deep breath, shall we?

What's next? That Frederik can't talk to high ranking police officers without informing the Minister of Justice, lest they tell him something about the gang wars in Copenhagen?

Or that Frederik can't talk to senior doctors, with informing the Minister of Health, lest they tell him about the conditions at Rigshospitalet?

And even if Frederik was told something, to be honest I privately think he is, informal meetings is a part of life. When Frederik is briefed by the Minister of Defense he gets the official version. Perhaps he'd like to hear the real version?

I actually find it pretty commendable if Frederik really is unofficially briefed by those on the ground. It suggests he shows a genuine interest in the society and how the various aspects of the society works. A well-informed crown prince, and future monarch is IMO not a bad thing.
  #331  
Old 01-17-2020, 01:28 PM
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As an American, I don't think this is such a big deal. Was there any criticism when Mary bought a new tiara? After all, she has the rubies and her wedding tiara. How many does she need? Is this the only property they own privately? I'm thinking Trend is owned by the Crown. The Verbier house looks rustic, not palatial. They could do worse things with their allowance. The American president makes a point of not accepting a salary (neither did JFK) but we still get stuck with a big bill for his golfing retreats.
  #332  
Old 01-17-2020, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Now for Frederik and the senior military officers he meet occasionally.

No one knows what they are discussing.
Since Frederik is likely to have worked with them on several occasions and certainly have known them for years, they may talk about old days or discuss tennis - perhaps they also discuss the current security situation in X, Y and B. But we don't know whether the officers are actually telling Frederik things that are highly confidential. But since Frederik attends the State Council meetings his knowledge and security clearance must be considered very high.

The criticism suggest a lack of confidence in Frederik that I don't share and a lack of confidence in the high ranking officers that I don't share at all!
To me this smells more of certain politicians marking their turf and emphasizing that the proper channels go through them - as if Frederik and the officers didn't know that.

So let's take a deep breath, shall we?

What's next? That Frederik can't talk to high ranking police officers without informing the Minister of Justice, lest they tell him something about the gang wars in Copenhagen?

Or that Frederik can't talk to senior doctors, with informing the Minister of Health, lest they tell him about the conditions at Rigshospitalet?

And even if Frederik was told something, to be honest I privately think he is, informal meetings is a part of life. When Frederik is briefed by the Minister of Defense he gets the official version. Perhaps he'd like to hear the real version?
It's fairly naïve to assume he's meeting senior military officers to discuss everyday trivialities. The "catching up with old military friends" is a poor excuse because there's no way he just so happens to be old friends with senior officers from different branches of the military. I realise there's no way of knowing the extent of the information he's been given but let's not play the fool.

I think your defence of this is unnuanced at best, biased because of your military background at worst. Politicians marking their turf? By stating the fact that is that Frederik hasn't been playing by the rules? And how would criticism of this ever count as "marking turf" when the sitting government that actually yields the power to mark their turf towards the DRF don't think it's a problem? And Frederik clearly doesn't know. Or doesn't care. Otherwise he would've known better than to put himself in a situation like this.

Those examples are textbook false equivalence. You know as well as I that there's a considerable difference between the medical sector and the military sector. If Frederik is uncertain of that, I'm sure his uncle Constantine would be able to tell him

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I actually find it pretty commendable if Frederik really is unofficially briefed by those on the ground. It suggests he shows a genuine interest in the society and how the various aspects of the society works. A well-informed crown prince, and future monarch is IMO not a bad thing.
Commendable?! Are you joking? You can educate yourself without involving yourself in politics behind the governments back. This is such a slippery slope, I can't believe you're trivialising the very fundament of a constitutional monarchy like this.
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  #333  
Old 01-18-2020, 06:39 AM
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That's some broadside you fired there!

Okay, there are many ways Frederik could have ended up becoming friends with senior officers.
These are people of roughly the same age as Frederik, but being career officers they would in some cases be one or two stars above him in rank by now.
It is more than likely he would have met and worked with them several times in the past. On active service. In connection with his time in Frogman Corps. The Frogman Corps adhered directly under the Defense Chief at the time, where some of these gentlemen would likely have served as staff officers.
When Frederik taught at the Defense Academy. He also gave lectures on the situation in the Baltics. By that time these gentlemen would likely have been senior staff officers.
So claiming that there is no way Frederik could happen to be old friends with senior officers is erroneous.

Now, do Frederik and the officers discuss anything else than the latest camouflage-fashion? Personally I'm sure they do.
So what? It's not like Frederik is plotting against the government or considering supporting a military coup or trying to influence the defense policy. He is IMO simply keeping himself informally informed. - He is after all destined to be the formal commander in chief and the DRF have always had a close affiliation with the military.

Now this is admittedly a big problem, perhaps a huge problem, for theoretics. But for the more practically inclined it's just a part of the informal way of doing things behind the scenes.
Plausible deniability. As long as no one know exactly what is discussed they might indeed discuss knitting socks. And everybody is happy. The Minister of Defense doesn't have to confront the DRF and the Defense Command. And everybody can maintain a good working relationship.

And comparing Frederik to Ex-king Constantine and the situation in Greece 45 years ago is - what did you call it - a textbook example of false equivalence.
(I'll have to remember that phrase it's most useful! )
  #334  
Old 01-18-2020, 10:17 AM
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Is it the case that Frederik and Mary have abandoned renting out their house?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...amid-criticism
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  #335  
Old 01-18-2020, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Is it the case that Frederik and Mary have abandoned renting out their house?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...amid-criticism
I read that now it is public knowledge who the owners are, it has become a security risk. Possibly they could still rent to select, vetted people?
  #336  
Old 01-18-2020, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Is it the case that Frederik and Mary have abandoned renting out their house?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...amid-criticism
I had seen the same Bloomberg article and my impression was they now have abandoned renting it out.

"The heir to the Danish throne, Crown Prince Frederik, has had to abandon an arrangement in which he was personally collecting rent on a luxury ski lodge in the Swiss alps.

The palace said the decision was made after it became public knowledge that Crown Prince Frederik owned the Swiss property, meaning the “terms for subletting are no longer the same,” according to Danish news service Ritzau"

It is my impression they paid for the property with their own money and have owned it for over 10 years. I suppose this may have been kept under the radar a bit longer if they weren't currently living there for the 12 weeks their children are attending school in Verbier.

Investments in property including rentals is common. It appears some in the Danish Parliament are calling into question the "constitutionality". "The case has drawn criticism in Danish media and among some members of parliament, who called into question the constitutionality of the prince’s transactions. In Denmark, the royal family lives on a public allowance that can only be spent on foreign assets with the approval of lawmakers." Again, if they used their own money, foreign asset or not, should this not be a private business transaction? Regarding the security risk it appears there has not been an issue until now. Interesting!
  #337  
Old 01-18-2020, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
That's some broadside you fired there!

Okay, there are many ways Frederik could have ended up becoming friends with senior officers.
These are people of roughly the same age as Frederik, but being career officers they would in some cases be one or two stars above him in rank by now.
It is more than likely he would have met and worked with them several times in the past. On active service. In connection with his time in Frogman Corps. The Frogman Corps adhered directly under the Defense Chief at the time, where some of these gentlemen would likely have served as staff officers.
When Frederik taught at the Defense Academy. He also gave lectures on the situation in the Baltics. By that time these gentlemen would likely have been senior staff officers.
So claiming that there is no way Frederik could happen to be old friends with senior officers is erroneous.

Now, do Frederik and the officers discuss anything else than the latest camouflage-fashion? Personally I'm sure they do.
So what? It's not like Frederik is plotting against the government or considering supporting a military coup or trying to influence the defense policy. He is IMO simply keeping himself informally informed. - He is after all destined to be the formal commander in chief and the DRF have always had a close affiliation with the military.

Now this is admittedly a big problem, perhaps a huge problem, for theoretics. But for the more practically inclined it's just a part of the informal way of doing things behind the scenes.
Plausible deniability. As long as no one know exactly what is discussed they might indeed discuss knitting socks. And everybody is happy. The Minister of Defense doesn't have to confront the DRF and the Defense Command. And everybody can maintain a good working relationship.

And comparing Frederik to Ex-king Constantine and the situation in Greece 45 years ago is - what did you call it - a textbook example of false equivalence.
(I'll have to remember that phrase it's most useful! )
Now you're operating within the realms of hypotheticals again. You know as little as I do regarding Frederik's personal relations with the participants. I'm not saying it's impossible for him to be friends with senior officers, I'm saying that the meetings have been brushed off as a case of old friends – soldaterkammerater – catching up and looking through the list of participants at these very formalised meetings, I simply can't buy that. This is the very top of the Danish military.

But that's beyond my point anyway. My point is that once the people involved find it necessary to keep these meeting off the radar, it gets shady undertones. Frederik has never been denied or been unable to access to information going through the proper channels. OLFI's article details that it has been agreed within the group of participants that the meetings should be kept secret. Why the need for secret-keeping? Why the need to go behind the government's back?

And so what? Well, let's see. Beside the fact the Crown Prince is not supposed to receive private briefings off the record by the Chief of Defence? Beside the fact that the Crown Prince – in spite of being the future commander-in-chief – is not a part of the Defence Staff's chief group and as such, he's neither obliged nor supposed to know everything that's going on within the defence. Beside the fact that its members being apolitical makes up the foundation of a constitutional monarchy? Beside the fact that several of the participants in these meetings have played roles in some of the many unfortunate cases within the defence that have unfolded recently?

If you wanna turn a blind eye to or downplay the gravity of this situation, that's on you. I just want to make it clear to everyone else that this isn't just an "informal way of doing things behind the scenes". It's serious breach of the ground rules that make up the royal family's raison d'être in a modern society. And writing it off as merely a theoretical problem because "in practice, these briefings may even be the most convenient solution" or "Frederik isn't the kind of future monarch to support a military coup" is such a dangerous slippery slope. The rules are there for a reason. And I'm saying this as an ardent supporter of Frederik.

I think you wanna make sure you know how to use the expression correctly then. This wouldn't be it as Constantine is a very real – albeit extreme – example of why royals shouldn't involve themselves with the military behind the government's back
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  #338  
Old 01-18-2020, 06:39 PM
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"This wouldn't be it as Constantine is a very real – albeit extreme – example of why royals shouldn't involve themselves with the military behind the government's back."

The point you raise is very valid, as illustrated by the example of the unfortunate King of Greece. However, I cannot imagine the Crown Prince -and nephew to the King!- would "involve himself with the military behind the government's back", especially as some government members themselves are probably ex-military! I also believe that it is the function of a monarchy to be the 'eyes, ears and mouth' of the people so that Crown Prince Frederik is quite correct in bringing himself to meetings-informal or otherwise- with the military so that he can monitor, learn and advise as his wide ranging experience sees fit.
  #339  
Old 01-18-2020, 06:54 PM
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If you've read along, you'll know that involving himself with some of the highest ranking officers in the military without the Minister of Defence's knowledge is exactly what he has done.

And let's not delude ourselves into thinking this is the only way in which Frederik can obtain information. He has every chance to access information by official means – visits to different military bases, meetings with senior officers on record, his adjuncts, the Minister of Defence or even the PM's office – there's absolutely no reason to go about it without the government's knowledge.
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  #340  
Old 01-18-2020, 06:55 PM
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Well, like I said: A huge problem for theoretics.

So you are comparing DK today to Greece anno 1970 or so?
You must be, since you brought it up and is talking about this being a slippery slope. Come on!
Where is the danger in the Heir having a chat with high ranking military officers, without calling the Minister of Defense to ask for permission first?
The DRF meet high ranking and not so high ranking officers all the time, without politicians being present. Where they can get all sorts of information if they ask for it. Is that a problem too, you think? Should the DRF members be chaperoned by a politician each time they meet high ranking officers, lest they talk outside the proper channels? - Because that IMO would be a problem!

To me this is a storm in a glass of water, based on... nothing.

So let me ask you, why is this a problem? I'm serious, why is it a problem that a member of the DRF is having talks with high ranking military officers, even if what they are talking about is indeed military and security topics?

I don't suspect the DRF in plotting with the military against the politicians or in the hope of the DRF influencing the politicians - especially as the military get pretty much what they want these days. New planes, new frigates, new brigades, new commands (Arctic and digital warfare commands.)
Nor can I envision a military coup anywhere in the horizon. The thought that Danish soldiers would fight against democracy let alone turn their guns against their own fellow citizens is beyond me - even though it admittedly is a suggestion I to me bewilderment see uttered often in another democratic country that shall remain unnamed here.

So yes, I will downplay the "gravity" of this, because I honestly don't see a problem.
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