General News about Frederik, Mary and Family 10: December 2011 - January 2013

[Muhler]

Oh yes, I think so.

It's politically a safe subject as the environment and promoting environmental consciousness and solutions has universal backing from both the politicians, the press and the general public here in DK.

However, if you promote yourself by having a great interest in the environment and also advocating environmental awareness - and then go out and purchase a petrol-gulping monster as a private vehicle, (as opposed to an official car, I doubt you can get many limos that aren't thirsty) then you must expect to be caught with your pants down, as Frederik has.
It's actually such a silly goof that it's comical.

However, BT continues along the line with presents to the DRF. With few specific examples, I notice. Hardly surprising as the DRF probably won't say anything and nor are the companies/organisations likely to say anything either.
They do however have some comments from experts on the subject.
Ekspert: Frederik og Mary skal huske at sige nej tak - Royale | www.bt.dk

A manager from a branding company, Kresten Schultz Jørgensen comments.
But the royals should be careful about not accepting too many gifts and mostly they should politely decline.
"They should say no to more than they accept. A lot of presents needs to be returned. Because it's not always the presenter give away the gift without expecting anything in return, when the businesses give away expensive commodities to the royals. It is a really good business/investment for the companies if they can get the Crown Princess to wear their clothes or if Frederik sits behind the wheel of their car.
It's branding on the very highest level. When someone recommends your product by using it, then it has an advertizing value that cannot be bought for money.

This isn't about price or usefulness. It's about signals and identity. And here is the very best fix point for other for other people who potentially will also use the product. (That sentence is garbled). The DRF is reknowned for not letting themselves having a special brand pulled over their heads and that's why it's amazing when it sometimes happens anyway.

Manager for a communications, Sune Bang, bureau comments.
The value of the royals is the utmost among celebrities. You don't get any higher. And there a serious lot of people who follow what they do. Some of those who presents gifts, do it because they support the way our society is build. And then there is the other part that is about wanting to take part in something that is attractive. You become a part of their story.

But won't the royals risk being accused of being bribed?
Sune Bang:
I believe the DRF is very conscious about not being used. The DRF handles that balance very professionally. They appear neither too poor, nor too extravagant. I have no knowledge about them misuding their position and exploiting their office/power
They have a good, healthy and Danish approach to their elevated status.
Both financially and emotionally the DRF pays. It makes life a little more funny for all the rest of us (*) and commercially I am not for a econd in doubt that the DRF pays.

Kresten Schultz:
The borderline goes where it is no longer a present, but where they become a part of a marketing-plan. There they must decline. I'm not an believer in the Pope being more pure than everybody else. It's obvious that they are sometimes misused and say yes to something they should have declined. Here the same rules applies as for ministers: That they should be above the marketing budgets of the companies.

(*) Even for those who are against the monarchy and complain about. Next to being delighted about something there is nothing like being grumpy.

Historically speaking royals have been showered with gift (and presented gifts en masse in return) since ancient time. Basically in order to suck up to the royals - and being noticed and to show off - without necessarily expecting anything in return. That has just continued to the present day.
There is a Danish idom: To feel pain in the butt, - when you are basically envious that someone get something for free or under favorable terms. I personally feel no "pain in my butt" that the DRF recieve presents, as they in my eyes know where the line goes, but it is a balance act.

------------------------------------------------------

To illustrate how the system goes when you want to bestow a favour on the royals here is a translation from my archive:

Billed Bladet #31, 2007-08-03.

Varm sommer med far og mor – Warm summer with mum and dad.

The holiday in Croatia was a present from Henry Jørgensen who would just so much like to show the CP couple his beloved Croatia. Henry had recommended Mary and Frederik to travel in September because it’s often damned hot (*) in July and August. But a late summer holiday did not fit into the schedule of the CP couple, so it was in July they brought Isabella and Christian on a cruise.
And Henry Jørgensen was right. Mary and Frederik’s holiday in Croatia became warm. Not least for their two small children who consequently most of the time was very lightly dressed. Little Princess Isabella usually with a little white sunhat over the dark locks, while big brother Christian settled with an unbuttoned shirt. When Crown Princess Mary carried her little daughter around she was dressed in a strapless light and airy dress of marine-blue fabric, while Frederik had chosen blue pirate-pants and a thin long-sleeved sweatshirt. (**) When the sun became too strong in the middle of the day everybody sheltered in the shadow on the deck of the yacht Seagull II, but even there it could become so hot that you had to jump into the sea once in a while. Prince Christian was naturally too small to do that, but fortunately there was a small Jacuzzi on the upper deck in which he could cool his feet.
The CP couple brought two couples of friends on the holiday to Croatia, Caroline and Peter Heering and Birgitte and Jeppe Handwerk. Their children too sweltered in the heat but they still enjoyed the days onboard, where India Handwerk and Prince Christian played well together.

They are basically of the same age, while Emilie and Rosemarie Heering are a bit older. It can be presumed that the pregnant Birgitte Handwerk had her problems with enduring the heat.
The dream-vacation at sea was a present to the CP couple from the Dane, Henry Jørgensen, and because he is so enchanted by Croatia and the islands off Croatia, he had laid out a route in order fro Mary and Frederik and their friends to see as much of the beautiful places as at all possible.
Even though a lot of the islands are uninhabited you can easily go ashore, but whether the CP couple did that or whether they preferred to stay onboard with the little ones has not been disclosed to Henry Jørgensen yet.
The yacht Seagull II has Split as its homeport, but when the CP couple entered the ship lay for anchor off the small port of Zaton a little north of Dubrovnic. (***) A large rubber dinghy sailed them to the ship and it was also used when the vacation ended and everybody were to go ashore again – and home to Denmark.
Tanned and with one more experience in the bag.

Written by Anna Johannesen.

(*) Very true!

(**) Each time? It must be inconvenient to change into the appropriate attire each time you carry your child around. Sigh!

(***) Note that the spelling varies depending on the language. Just as Kosovo is Albanian, while Kosova is Serbian.

There is also a back ground feature on the 74 year old Henry Jørgensen who presented M&F with the cruise. He is himself married to a Croatian. They live for half the year in Denmark and in the other half in Croatia. Seagull II is owned by the wealthy Croatian Juroslav Buljubasic, but Henry J. has been in charge of refurbishing and rebuilding the ship for luxury cruises. The ship is also to his disposal for a period each year.
Henry J. wrote the court and proposed a cruise for the CP couple in the Adriatic. He was then summoned to a meeting at the office of the chief of court, Per Thornit. Mary’s LiW, Caroline Heering and a couple of gentlemen from PET were also present. He made it clear that this was just be considered a present without any conditions or other motives. Frederik joined the meeting later and they all agreed.
AJ: Have you heard from them after the returned?
- “Not yet, but PET has called and said that everything went well. They sailed behind them in a motorboat all the way”. (*)

Excerpt of an article written by Anna Johannesen.

(*) My guess is that in order to ensure more privacy for the CP couple and their friends and for practical reasons, not least when the PET officers are resting, a team from PET accompanied them to Croatia. The team would stay onboard the boat, while a couple of officers were on duty onboard the yacht at all times. The boat would very likely have been placed at the disposal of PET by Henry Jørgensen.

[nwinther]

Originally Posted by ricarda

Well, Mary preaches "green" sustainable fashion and for the frist time wore a dress from H&M Conscious Collection at this event, while I would say 95% of her wardrobe is not made from used materials, not sustainable. (And H&M btw has a bad reputation regarding "child-labour.)

Shouldn't you be wary about the wisdom - indeed intelligence - bestowed upon CP Mary instead of thanking the maker for her?

First off - Mary hasn't made it her "thing" to preach the environment. The Crown Prince has little else going for him.

Second - it's quite difficult for the ordinary citizen to figure out how much CO2 etc. goes into making a seemingly harmless piece of clothing. But you just need to make a quick glance at that car to realize it's a gas-guzzler. And if you want to know precisely, you can easily look up the numbers in the brochure.

Third - when Frederik bought the electric car, he probably didn't realize it took way more CO2 to produce that car, than it did the Land Rover he just got. Reason for that is, that few people know how complicated it actually is to get the ressources for making electric cars. And since it's quite obfuscated I can excuse that purchase of the electric car. And if the means justify the end, all the more so (doubling the embarrasment vis-a-vis buying the Land Rover).
The same goes for Mary's clothes. I don't expect a busy person to research every angle regarding how the clothes she wears is made and how much CO2, dye, softeners, bleach etc. is used. Just as with the car, it can be rather complicated to check every supplier in that chain.
Hence, I can forgive the apparant hipocracy re. Mary. But Frederik has attended school - he bloody well knows that a Land Rover is a bottomless pit when it comes to fuel. At least get a hybrid or something!

[ricarda]

First, if that article Muhler originally quoted can give misleading informations regarding bought (and not gifted) electric cars and reasons for returning that car then it can also give misleading informations about the other car (Land Rovers are usually used at the royal hunts which are official events, aren't they?).

Moreover I don't see why driving a Land Rover is more a silly goof than wearing a lot of unsustainable expensive outfits. Either you do what you preach or you don't. In that respect I would agree that F&M are both a bit hypocritical (and so are many many others involved in this "politically safe" subject).

Actually I find those BT articles quite hypocritical too.
First we hear about a book on the subject of gifts for the royals (with the title "It costs a kingdom").
Then there is an article about 2 cars which were actually bought and not gifted (though the article doesn't make this quite clear).
And then there is an article which demands the royals should say no more often and states that the DRF is doing well in this respect - at the same time? It seems BT wasn't quite sure how far to go.

And this trip to Croatia you brought up, Muhler, is actually one the CP Couple got heavily critizised for. So if anything IMO this is an example how it should not be.

Originally Posted by nwinther

First off - Mary hasn't made it her "thing" to preach the environment. The Crown Prince has little else going for him.

Second - it's quite difficult for the ordinary citizen to figure out how much CO2 etc. goes into making a seemingly harmless piece of clothing. But you just need to make a quick glance at that car to realize it's a gas-guzzler. And if you want to know precisely, you can easily look up the numbers in the brochure.

Third - when Frederik bought the electric car, he probably didn't realize it took way more CO2 to produce that car, than it did the Land Rover he just got. Reason for that is, that few people know how complicated it actually is to get the ressources for making electric cars. And since it's quite obfuscated I can excuse that purchase of the electric car. And if the means justify the end, all the more so (doubling the embarrasment vis-a-vis buying the Land Rover).
The same goes for Mary's clothes. I don't expect a busy person to research every angle regarding how the clothes she wears is made and how much CO2, dye, softeners, bleach etc. is used. Just as with the car, it can be rather complicated to check every supplier in that chain.
Hence, I can forgive the apparant hipocracy re. Mary. But Frederik has attended school - he bloody well knows that a Land Rover is a bottomless pit when it comes to fuel. At least get a hybrid or something!

First - Mary too has made it her thing to preach the environment. And I don't agree that Frederik has little else going for him.
Second - Do you suggest it's not a goof because the ordinary citizen can't figure it out? This is about promoting the environment and not about what the ordinary citizen can figure out. The aim is to raise awareness (so that the ordinary citizen can figure out more).
Third - If they (both Mary and Frederik) don't know enough about a topic they should stay away from promoting it. And I assume the Land Rover is also used by Mary (who has attended school as well). That reminds me of Mary getting critizised for an expensive kitchen as if Frederik wouldn't use/need that kitchen as well.

I know you dislike Frederik.
I dislike double standards.

[Archduchess Zelia]

Originally Posted by ricarda

Mary too has made it her thing to preach the environment.

Nope, I'm sorry but the environment is much more Frederik's thing than it is Mary's.

[Muhler]

BT is out to sell papers and get hits.

One of the well-tried ways to do that is, in this case, to put a less than flattering angle on the DRF in the hope that the readers will be outraged - which will lead to more hits and so on. They try that with pretty sensationalist headlines and as you point out they are not doing a good job.

Back to the landrover. Unless you have a job that requires you to have a four-wheel drive, or regularly drive in rural Sweden, or have a large estate to manage you really don't need one here in DK.
For hunts? No, the local foresters have such cars which you can borrow or use and the roads are so good that you can easily get to whatever hunt you want to attend in an ordinary car.
I believe that Frederik purchased this car, because it's big and spacious and mostly because it's cool.
It's just what a family of four plus a dog could use, you might argue. Yes, but you can get similar, more environmentally sound cars that will do fine as a modern family car. - And cheaper as well.

M&F can buy all the land rovers they want but Frederik can't buy such (private) cars and at the same time be an advocate for us all doing an effort to reduce greenhouse gases. That naturally hurts his credibillity.

As for the DRF recieving presents, I'm fine with that. It's no secret that the DRF does a lot to, almost aggresively, promote Danish commerce. If M&F recieve a pram from a Danish company and is seen using it and that increases the sale and thereby create jobs, I'm all for it.

I decided to post the BT articles in order to give readers here a look at the critisism the DRF some times gets. And that's healthy, I think. The DRF are humans, they cannot walk on water.
Whether that critisism is fair or well founded is debatable - and that's what we do now.

[ricarda]

Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia

Nope, I'm sorry but the environment is much more Frederik's thing than it is Mary's.

But it is Mary's thing, regarding fashion. It was in 2009 and again this year. She even gave an interview to CNN about it.

Muhler
M&F can buy all the land rovers they want but Frederik can't buy such (private) cars and at the same time be an advocate for us all doing an effort to reduce greenhouse gases. That naturally hurts his credibillity.

I agree with that. But I think it goes for Mary as well. How credible is it to promote "green fashion" when your wardrobe is filled with "un-green" fashion (and much more of it than the average woman has). That's why I asked if they should engage themselves in this topic at all.

Muhler
Back to the landrover. Unless you have a job that requires you to have a four-wheel drive, or regularly drive in rural Sweden, or have a large estate to manage you really don't need one here in DK.
For hunts? No, the local foresters have such cars which you can borrow or use and the roads are so good that you can easily get to whatever hunt you want to attend in an ordinary car.
I believe that Frederik purchased this car, because it's big and spacious and mostly because it's cool.

Well, Prince Henrik seems to have one too (and uses it at hunts). And I remember an article about Joachim speeding in a Land Rover with his two little sons in the back shortly after the divorce from Alexandra was announced (you might of course argue that he is managing an estate).
We can only speculate about this car on the basis of a very unrelieable article (as you mentioned yourself the article in Borsen has nothing about a Land Rover). Fact is we don't know for what reasons it was purchased and if it is a private car or not. And what you believe is what you believe...

[Muhler]

I think I'll pass on the fashion thing you mention. My knowledge about the subject is less than impressive.
I will however mention that I don't believe Mary intentionally disregard environmentally unsound issues in that industry.

Yes, I have seen Prince Henrik in a four-wheel drive. I don't know how old it is.
In his defence I will say that he is not an outspoken advocate for the environment and also that he has problems with his back.

Joachim has an estate to run and he has to be able to drive around on gravel roads all year round.

I based my assumptions on why Frederik (yes, it's still daddy who mostly choose the car) chose the Discovery on why I would choose it, could I afford the petrol-bill and the taxes.
Aaaand before anyone mentions the word envious, let me point out that I wouldn't want the Discovery if someone gave it to me for free. It's simply too expensive to run.

[polyesco]

I agree that some criticism can be good, but to say that Frederik "has nothing else going for him". is unfair. His events dont get the publicity that Mary does but IMO he is doing a good job.

I think he is doing a good job as an advocate for the environment but that doesnt mean he is perfect and doing everything 100%. that will be near impossible to do. Some major advocates for the climate also are proud owners of private jets and multiple houses .

Trading in the electric car for a bigger car, might have just been the family man thinking that a sports car for two might not be such a great idea, and instead want a bigger car for a family of 6 with Ziggy.

Accepting gifts for royals must be a thin line they must walk on, but i dont think the DRF have much to worry about.

[Nordic]

Has the DRF/F&M (since they are always the ones targeted, even if J&M also get prams, cars and stuff as presents) ever commented on what/when/how their policy on this gift business is and wouldn't that be the "bosses" (The Queen) policy?

These articles give only one side of the story: "Mary gets huuuge amounts of clothes for free", "free cars" (IIRC, only the wedding presents), "luxury trips" (that one) etc etc.
Oh yes, I read that some nappy company gave the twins a years supply of dipers when they were born...

How do we know that Mary doesn't pay for most of the outfits that she gets, that she doesn't borrow some of the stuff for official visits and so on??

[Archduchess Zelia]

Originally Posted by Nordic

Has the DRF/F&M (since they are always the ones targeted, even if J&M also get prams, cars and stuff as presents) ever commented on what/when/how their policy on this gift business is and wouldn't that be the "bosses" (The Queen) policy?

This has actually bothered me for a while now, I know Frederik is the heir and obviously that equals much more publicity and focus than Joachim will ever get. That being said, Joachim and Marie are members of the royal family too, why only concentrate the criticism on Frederik and Mary? This has nothing to do with me liking Frederik and Mary, I do, but justice must be justice, and it can't always be them who are being slaughtered for accepting free gifts.

On another note and speaking of the diapers, just by the way, when Frederik and Mary were offered a years (I think) supply of diapers at the time of Christian's birth, they kindly refused it. I can't remember if they did the same with the twins though.

[camelot23ca]

Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia

This has actually bothered me for a while now, I know Frederik is the heir and obviously that equals much more publicity and focus than Joachim will ever get. That being said, Joachim and Marie are members of the royal family too, why only concentrate the criticism on Frederik and Mary? This has nothing to do with me liking Frederik and Mary, I do, but justice must be justice, and it can't always be them who are being slaughtered for accepting free gifts.

On another note and speaking of the diapers, just by the way, when Frederik and Mary were offered a years (I think) supply of diapers at the time of Christian's birth, they kindly refused it. I can't remember if they did the same with the twins though.

It's not about fair, though, it's about who will sell the most papers. I'm sure BT would make the argument that, no, no, it's Frederik's position as future king that causes the focus to be on him, and I'm sure there's some truth to that. But if, for whatever reason, Joachim suddenly became more popular and high profile than his brother then he, not Frederik, would be the focus of these sorts of articles.

[King of the Jungle]

Didn't the particular electric car that Frederik returned have a problem with catching fire?
It might have been bad publicity for the electric car to have that stated as the reason as to why it was returned. The model was not perfected and I think that some were recalled?? It would have been very bad form for Fred to have been engulfed in a burning car. It was polite for him not to say why he returned it; the manufacturer was trying it's hardest to correct the fault I'd imagine.
Many electric cars are not yet suitable for every type of family or lifestyle.

I would prefer a Land Rover Discovery - diesel is quite environmentally okay. It might be used to carry many people, prams, bikes and pets and to tow a boat or horse float. There is also the safety rating, how many kilometres are travelled, to where and at what time of day. Electric cars are not for everyone even if they are becoming better.

Mary and Fred are used to display many Danish produced items - from fashion to food and I can only see that as great for Denmark and it's people. I think that it is right and proper for Mary and Fred to support, and to be seen to support, Danish industry, tourism, charities, sports teams and anything else that Denmark proudly stands for.
It is sensible that some of those items are gifts - as the variety shown to the outside world will then be greatly increased and provide more publicity for hard working Danish firms.

As to free holidays. Well, if it means privacy and security and if there are no strings attached and if the gifted holiday is declared - I see no problem at all.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by camelot23ca

It's not about fair, though, it's about who will sell the most papers. I'm sure BT would make the argument that, no, no, it's Frederik's position as future king that causes the focus to be on him, and I'm sure there's some truth to that. But if, for whatever reason, Joachim suddenly became more popular and high profile than his brother then he, not Frederik, would be the focus of these sorts of articles.

Absolutely, BT and Ekstra Bladet as well as the weekly magazines target M&F because they at present are the highest profiled royals in DK.
And they do it primarily to sell.
It would be much more interesting if one of the more serious papers ran a feature on the subject.

Joachim and our Marie has a much lower profile and what they do and how they live doesn't stand out.
However Joachim too has had his share of bad press. In the aftermath of the divorce he was very much the villain and even the small detail of the car and the racing suit he is wearing while racing with his team has been critizesed by a few, because there are sponsor adverts and the DRF shouldn't advertize for anything. - A thing that is beyond trivial.

However a couple of weeks ago BT ran a few indirect articles about the Regent Couple.
Kongelige i gaveregn: Schurs vej til kongehuset - Danmark | www.bt.dk
That was because a book was written by one of the most influential businessmen right now, Fritz Schur.
The book basically accused him for buying (and bullying) his way to the top of the society. Now also by sucking up to the Regent Couple, with whom he has been very generous in regards to presents and services. - I remember reading somewhere else that it's now Fritz Schur who handles the investments of the at least the Regent Couple. (Beforehand it was the late Mærsk).
Fritz Schur and the Regent Couple, especially Prince Henrik has become friends within the past couple of years.

I didn't write about that at the time, because honestly I don't know much about the subject and the book was one-sided. It was obvious to me that Fritz Schur has many enemies - which is hardly surprising.
Fritz Schur was in the BT articles hinted as a person, the DRF should perhaps be careful about having too close a relationship with.
I don't know enough of the subject to form an opinion at present.

However, as far as I can tell M&F do not have that close a relationship with Fritz Schur and it is nowhere nearly as close a relationship as the one they had with the late Mærsk.

Joachim doesn't need Fritz Schur. He is personal friend with some of the richest families in DK. I.e. the owners of LEGO and Grundfoss.

[Naggi]

I think royals regardless of their high or low profiles in the public eye need to be very careful of their actions and think through all details before going public. Just have a look to other royal houses... British Prince Andrew or the husband of Spanish Princess Cristina with their dubios business relationships were scandalls and did not good to the image of the royal family as a whole.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by polyesco

Accepting gifts for royals must be a thin line they must walk on, but i dont think the DRF have much to worry about.

In general, they should not accept ANYTHING. Or take it and pay for it.

At the end of the day royals are funded by the state, many state employees cannot even accept a bottle of whine without the risk of being fired, its ridiculous that royals can accept all kinds of things like clothes, cars, free holidays. Its wrong.

[MARG]

It is a little difficult to define what exactly is a "gift" as far as I can see. Some old friends are also prominent citizens and when time is spent together on holiday or a friend makes a holiday home available, the use of a car, an aircraft or the chance to obtain something at cost (which is the sort of good fortune that many people of all socio-economic levels enjoy), is there something improper going on or are muckrakers just taking another class in creative writing on a slow news week with Frederik and Mary pushing it to the front page.

[ashelen]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

In general, they should not accept ANYTHING. Or take it and pay for it.

At the end of the day royals are funded by the state, many state employees cannot even accept a bottle of whine without the risk of being fired, its ridiculous that royals can accept all kinds of things like clothes, cars, free holidays. Its wrong.

and you forgot the jewellery! I imagine most of her jewellery that Mary usses is presents in echange of publicity! Royals like celebrities they get so much staff for free in exchange of publicity when really they have the financial to buy it themselves if they want too! When I see the pricesof some of Mary's jewellery I can not imagine Fred buying all that , I know he can financial to do so but it is so much she has that goes beyond commun sense!

[Spheno]

most of Mary's modern jewellery are loans
she advertises local jewellers
it's part of her job

[Archduchess Zelia]

Originally Posted by ashelen

and you forgot the jewellery! I imagine most of her jewellery that Mary usses is presents in echange of publicity! Royals like celebrities they get so much staff for free in exchange of publicity when really they have the financial to buy it themselves if they want too! When I see the pricesof some of Mary's jewellery I can not imagine Fred buying all that , I know he can financial to do so but it is so much she has that goes beyond commun sense!

As Spheno said, most of the jewelry Mary uses (that isn't her own) are loans from "jewelry houses" (or whatever such firms are called) that benefit from having her wear their jewelry at events where everyone can see it. Also, she often wears Danish-made creations and let's say Mary attends a royal wedding abroad, a lot of people from different countries see her and maybe someone love one of the jewelry pieces she's wearing and they decide to buy one, that benefits the Danish export and gives publicity to the Danish jewelry business. Your criticism isn't quite fair.

[Tarlita]

I agree with everything King of the Jungle said post 333. I thought it was said a long time ago that Mary and Fred received a lot of money as wedding gifts and used this money to set up the charity Mary Foundation. If this is correct then they certainly have earnt some freebies in return for there charitable donation. And I am sure the palace vets all free goodies that come in so as not to create a conflict of interest. I don't have a problem with free stuff. Just look at what Celebrities get. I don't see anything wrong with it.