Danish Royal Family, Current Events 3: April 2010 - June 2012 - Page 8

FasterB · #**141** 11-13-2010, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maura724

The aunts and uncles have me sort of confused.

So if it's an aunt/uncle by blood rather than just marriage, you spell the relationship out - Joachim is Christian's farbror, father's brother. And Benedikte and Anne-Marie are Frederik's morsostre, mother's sisters? Correct?

That´s correct, except it´s Moster (mother´s sister, sg.) and Mostre (mother´s sisters, pl.)

So it will be:
Morbror = Mother´s brother
Moster = Mother´s sister

Farbror = Father´s brother
Faster = Father´s sister

I don´t know about the last part of your question

Muhler · #**142** 11-14-2010, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maura724

So why are they simply "grandtante" to Christian, instead of grandmorsoster or farmorsoster? Are all great-aunts automatically grandtante, whether it's by blood or marriage? Is there any distinction between the title of a great-aunt by blood, like Anne-Marie, and the great-uncle who is just her husband, Constantine?

I don't know. That's just how it is.

Perhaps there was a distinction in the old days but that has gone out of use, just like nieces and nephews are rarely called søstersøn = sister's son or brordatter = brother's daughter nowadays.
Great aunts/uncles are related by blood.

If you think that's detailed, you ain't seen anything yet.

Because there are also words for the new spouse of one or both of your divorced parents.
The words are papmor and papfar = roughly translated to stepmother and stepfather. But there is a huge difference.
Martin Jørgensen is papfar to Nikolai and Felix, because he is married to Alexandra but he has not adopted her boys.
Had he adopted Nikolai and Felix (for example if Joachim was dead) then he would be called their stedfar = stepdad.
Princess Marie is papmor to Nikolai and Felix, because she is married to Joachim but she has not adopted his two oldest sons
If she adopted Nikolai and Felix, she would be their stedmor = stepmom.

Do you need an aspirin?

No, then read on....

Now, as you know Martin Jørgensen has a daughter, who he is not in touch with.
Should it for some strange reason be decided that she should live with Martin Jørgensen, then Nikolai and Felix would suddenly have a papsøster (which can roughly be translated to stepsister) on their hands. And Nikolai and Felix would each be a papbror (plural: papbrødre) to that daughter.
Only if and when Alexandra adopts Martin's daughter would she become a stedsøster (genuine stepsister) to Nikolai and Felix.

I think I'll leave it to FasterB to tell you about the distinction between cousins.

Should you be interested....

FasterB · #**143** 11-14-2010, 08:55 AM

Oh, Muhler, you are forgetting the new definition of a new spouse: Bonusmor/Bonusfar... Now explain that while I´ll deal with the cousin

In danish we have a difference between a male and female cousin:
Fætter (sg.), Fætre (pl.) = Male cousin
Kusine (sg.)m, kusiner (pl.) = Female cousin

Nikolai, Felix and Christian are fætre
Isabella is kusine

See, it´s easy :)

Kataryn · #**144** 11-14-2010, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhler

I think I'll leave it to FasterB to tell you about the distinction between cousins.

Should you be interested....

Thank you very much, Muhler. That was really interesting. Especially as I have read quite some scandinavian literature and had the impression that bloodlines and family ties play an important role in the Northern countries - probably as part of the Viking heritage? At least one tend to think that languages who have a lot of words for things that other languages only subsumize under few words show that there is a greater cultural need to be very clear about the topic in question. Maybe that even explains why the queen is said to have favoured non Danish marriages for her sons - in order to avoid the question of relations?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FasterB

Oh, Muhler, you are forgetting the new definition of a new spouse: Bonusmor/Bonusfar... Now explain that while I´ll deal with the cousin

In danish we have a difference between a male and female cousin:
Fætter (sg.), Fætre (pl.) = Male cousin
Kusine (sg.)m, kusiner (pl.) = Female cousin

Nikolai, Felix and Christian are fætre
Isabella is kusine

See, it´s easy :)

We have a similar distinction in (today quite old-fashioned) German:

Vetter oder Kusin = male cousin, (probably spoken quite similar to the Danish equivalent)
Base or Kusine = female cousin.

Today we tend to say Cousin and Cousine.

Muhler · #**145** 11-14-2010, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FasterB

Oh, Muhler, you are forgetting the new definition of a new spouse: Bonusmor/Bonusfar... Now explain that while I´ll deal with the cousin

No problem. Bonusmor/far/bror/søster = Bonus mother/father/brother/sister is the same as papmor/far/bror/søster - just newer.
- I don't know which will survive in the long run.

Pap-xxx and bonus-xxx has been invented quite recently as a result of divorces being much more common now, than just 40 years ago.

I think the countless names for relatives is a result of Denmark being a country with a small population, which until fairly recently was predominantly rural. (Copenhagen anno 1800 had about 100.000 inhabitants, the town with the second largest number of inhabitans had less than 10.000).
People didn't move about as much, so my guess is that it was very important to keep track of your family relations, partly to avoid inbreeding but just as importantly to emphasise your social and family network, because in the countryside you relied on them.
In the the towns you relied on your guild as a social and economical network. Those who were not a member of a guild or association could end up in deep poverty very fast.

Those who were poor and living in the towns, well too bad....
Unless they were fortunate enough to be issued with a license to beg (tiggerbrev). Licensed and talented beggars could earn surprisingly well, so such a license was sought after.

Don't get me started!

I could talk about this for two hours...

Perhaps I should write a blog about say Christian's family connections.

And Kataryn: German vetter and Danish fætter is pronounced the same way.

Maura724 · #**146** 11-14-2010, 10:04 AM

Thanks for the answers everyone - that's all very interesting.

I mean no disrespect to the language, but sometimes conversations like these make me feel sort of sorry for people like Mary and Marie who are expected to learn it fluently!

Muhler · #**147** 11-14-2010, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maura724

Thanks for the answers everyone - that's all very interesting.

I mean no disrespect to the language, but sometimes conversations like these make me feel sort of sorry for people like Mary and Marie who are expected to learn it fluently!

Your sympathy is very well founded!

(I've sometimes felt sorry for her, when someone has talked to her in dialect. Very friendly but without considering that she probably doesn't understand half of what is being said).

Not to mention the cultural differencies. Mary will also be queen of Greenland and the Faeroe Islands. So....

And Marie, she has said that her friends has told her that she speaks Danish with a Southern Jutlandic accent.

Genuine Southern Jutlandic dialect can be very difficult to understand even for someone like me who lives about 150-175 kilometres away.
But then when Mrs. Muhler choses to speak in her dialect, I end up tying my toungue into a know, if I try to sound like her. And we grew up less than 100 kilometres apart.

sofajr · #**148** 11-17-2010, 02:37 PM

Prince Henrik and his grandson Prince Christian and Princess Mary reveal a portrait of Christian IV's son Duke Ulrich at Rosenborg Castle, Copenhagen:

PPE Agency

Paty · #**149** 11-17-2010, 02:39 PM

Another gellry from sn.dk
Prins Christian på job med mor og farfar - sn.dk - Sjællands Nyheder - Sjælland

Marika86 · #**150** 11-17-2010, 02:41 PM

Prince Henrik, Prince Christian and Crown Princess Mary unveiling a portrait of Duke Ulrik son of Christian VI at Rosenborg castle. November 17, 2010

BelgaPicture - Category details

This photo is so cute!!

Christian & Mary

Lumutqueen · #**151** 11-17-2010, 02:43 PM

[DNF] Fotoarchief Denieuwsfoto Copenhagen

Christian looks like such a grown up boy.

Calenei · #**152** 11-17-2010, 04:02 PM

Prince Henrik and Prince Christian look like they had fun. Why do I think these two get into all sorts of mischief behind closed doors at the palace?

Naggi · #**153** 11-17-2010, 04:35 PM

Is this Prince Christian's first official engagement? He has done a good job :-)

**iceflower** · #**154** 11-17-2010, 04:48 PM

____________________

Here's another nice gallery from bt.dk - I think it's good that Christian had
some motherly support

** Se alle Billederne Christian paa Job med Mor **

Muhler · #**155** 11-17-2010, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naggi

Is this Prince Christian's first official engagement? He has done a good job :-)

Yes and no.

He went with grandpapa Henrik and a nanny to open a new elephant house in Copenhagen Zoo, but he had no official role there, except getting all the attention.

He was listed on the CP calendar when he was a page boy at Victoria and Daniel's wedding, so that was an official appearnce of some sort I guess.

But this is the first time he is actually on the job as a royal. In this case unveiling a portrait from the early 1600's.

dazzling · #**156** 11-18-2010, 01:53 AM

**iceflower** · #**157** 11-18-2010, 06:53 AM

__________________

Billed-Bladet also has an article with a gallery of pics:

** Stolt prins Christian med farfar på arbejde **

And so has msn.dk:

** Prins Christian med farfar på arbejde **

Muhler · #**158** 11-18-2010, 07:34 AM

Thank you Iceflower and Dazzling

Here is a clip from BT with a slightly misleading headline: Prins Henrik: Christian for tidligt på arbejde - BT TV - BT.dk

Here Prince Henrik is commenting on Christian's first day at work and the headline gives the impression that PH believe that it was too early for Christian to perform such a task. That is in fact not what PH said.
PH was asked whether Christian was looking forward to unveiling the portrait and PH replied that is was too early for him (Christian) as he is only five years old, of course meaning that Christian is too young to really comprehend what will happen and as such also too young to look forward to it.
PH added that it was not his idea to bring Christian along but that he (PH) was happy to tag along.

In the video posted by Dazzling some of the girls who performed (a menuet, I believe) was interviewed afterwards and they were fully aware that Christian was too young to fully appreciate their dancing. The youngts said giggling that it looked like Christian was bored.

ADDED: An additional gallery from Billed Bladet with Christian and Mary: http://www.billedbladet.dk/Kongelige...med%20mor.aspx

Tarlita · #**159** 11-19-2010, 04:27 PM

The unveiling of the portrait made the news here in Australia. He looked very cute and Prince Henrik looked very please with his grandson. But I haven't been able to find out what the unveiling was all about. Has this portrait been away having some restoration? Does anyone know?

**iceflower** · #**160** 11-19-2010, 05:30 PM

_________________

The portrait is so special as it's a rare portrait of Christian IV’s and Queen Anna Cathrine's
youngest son, it now returned to the place where it was painted nearly 400 years ago - at
the Rosenborg Castle. In 2008 a student had found out that the painting was for sale at a
gallery in London, prior to that it had been in the hands of private collectors. The Rosenborg
Castle now was able to get it back. I've read that a few days ago in one of the articles about
it, but I don't think that article was posted here. Hope that helps, Tarlita