Brazilian Marriage Rules & Musings

[BrazilianEmpire]

Who knows he can a great Emperor!

He surely will be a great Emperor.

Imagine if a daughter of Prince Rafael marry a son of Prince Afonso of Portugal. That would be wonderful!

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

Wow! You are thinking too much ahead!

 

[HRHHermione]

I don't know how things work in your country,perhaps there you have a very sexualised culture, but here, in Brazil, many people decide to only have sex after marriage.

Both Princess Amélia and her mother, Princess Cristina has said that the Imperial children were educated to only have sex after marriage. After all, this is a Christian teaching.

In the U.S. almost all people are educated to have sex after marriage, but in reality, something like 95% of people here have sex before marriage.

Which personally, I think is right and healthy and better- It means people tend to wait longer to marry, and that gives you time to look for the right match.

I too would be surprised if most of these people are waiting.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

But we don't have any reason to not believe on Princesses Amélia and Cristina.

 

[HRHHermione]

But we don't have any reason to not believe on Princesses Amélia and Cristina.

Oh, I wasn't trying to imply that. I honestly... for me, that's something that is so, so private that speculating about it is always rude. Plus, to me, it's also irrelevant. My rule is that anything of that nature that happens between consenting adults is private and not something that anyone should be judged or shamed for- either activity or lack of activity.

I do have a huge problem with the concept of a family having to approve a marriage, because to me, that's something that should be decided solely between the two consenting adults choosing to enter a marriage.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

Oh, I wasn't trying to imply that. I honestly... for me, that's something that is so, so private that speculating about it is always rude. Plus, to me, it's also irrelevant. My rule is that anything of that nature that happens between consenting adults is private and not something that anyone should be judged or shamed for- either activity or lack of activity.

No one is speculating. Prince Rafael's mother and sister said that they were all educated to only have sex after marriage.

I do have a huge problem with the concept of a family having to approve a marriage, because to me, that's something that should be decided solely between the two consenting adults choosing to enter a marriage.

The problem is that Prince Rafael isn't a normal person. Brazil isn't a Monarchy anymore, but, one day, he'll become the Head of the Imperial House, he'll represent the whole history of his country. There is some traditions he must follow.

And he said he'll follow the Dynastic Marriage tradition, so, there's no problem. The boy isn't been forced to do anything. He wants to marry a Princess.

 

[Saschana]

I'm sure that dating Mariana Lima didn't made Prince Wence famous here in Brazil. Even she isn't that famous here. Although, if a Prince dates Gisele Buschen, he'll surely become famous here.

That's not what I said. I said that he should know Brazil - as in has visited and seen a bit of the country, maybe speaks a little Portuguese - and not that he would be famous there.

I don't think that's a problem. Their late brother, Prince Pedro Luiz almost got engaged with his second-cousin, Archduchess Marie Christine of Austria.

Is that anything more than a rumour? She married Count Rodolphe of Limburg-Stirum a few years ago and they are apparently expecting their second child.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

That's not what I said. I said that he should know Brazil - as in has visited and seen a bit of the country, maybe speaks a little Portuguese - and not that he would be famous there.

Oh, sorry. I read too fast and didn't got your point.

Well, that's good, because anyone who marry one of the Princesses will have to live in Brazil (at least part of the year) and the children will have to be Brazilians.

Is that anything more than a rumour? She married Count Rodolphe of Limburg-Stirum a few years ago and they are apparently expecting their second child.

Oh, no, they dated. I remeber the Duchess of Braganza talking about that, after the Prince's death.

And their mothers, Princess Cristina and Archduchess Marie-Astrid (who are very close since childhood) encouraged the match.

 

[Warren]

They may have "dated" and the match may have been "encouraged" but the facts are that Archduchess Marie Christine married in December 2008 and poor Prince Pedro Luiz died in June 2009.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

They may have "dated" and the match may have been "encouraged" but the facts are that Archduchess Marie Christine married in December 2008 and poor Prince Pedro Luiz died in June 2009.

We all know what happened.

But they really dated, that's entirely true.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

Wow! You are thinking too much ahead!

Maybe I am. But I have a feeling that Prince Rafael of Brazil will marry Princess Alexandra of Luxembourg. I would bet that they'll marry around 2020. They'll have three children:

1. Prince Pedro Luiz (named after his late uncle and the two Brazilian Emperors).
2. Princess Isabel (named after her great ancestress Princess Isabel).
3. Prince Antônio Henrique (named after his grandfathers).

 

[NGalitzine]

Run Rafael, run as fast as you can. People are not only deciding who you will marry but also how many children you will have and what you will name them.
Change your name, go live incognito somewhere and have a happy life doing what you want when you want and marrying whomever you want.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

He can run away with Prince Harry and Baby Cambridge, because people are doing the same with them.
But don't worry, Prince Rafael will fulfill his duties with his country, people, and Family. The Prince himself said this.

 

[NGalitzine]

Perhaps but no one has drawn up a list of 20 women and said here you go Harry, these are the only acceptable women in the world for you to marry. Chose anyone else and you will have to renounce your rights.

 

[Ish]

Perhaps but no one has drawn up a list of 20 women and said here you go Harry, these are the only acceptable women in the world for you to marry. Chose anyone else and you will have to renounce your rights.

That's because there are fewer restrictions on the ability to inherit the British throne than the Brazilian one - in general it seems like the various deposed monarchies continue to have stricter rules regarding such matters than the ones that still remain in power. There are exceptions, of course, but it's as though through being deposed royal families have been forced to cling to rules that may be a bit archaic, while royal families who are still in power are able to adapt more with the times. If Harry could only marry a princess then it's likely that someone would have come up with a list at some point - and even though he can marry whoever he wants, there was a thread on this forum at one point discussing the various eligible women who he might one day marry.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

If Prince Rafael is okay with the fact he has to mary a Princess, I see no reason to make such a fuss against the Brazilian Imperial House Laws.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

If Prince Rafael is okay with the fact he has to mary a Princess, I see no reason to make such a fuss against the Brazilian Imperial House Laws.

Exactly. The only things a deposed royal house has is the titles and the tradition.

Prince Rafael knows his duty with the country. He has said he'll marry equally. That's what really matters.

 

[HRHHermione]

The whole thing just sounds so classist and archaic and awful to me

 

[NGalitzine]

The whole thing just sounds so classist and archaic and awful to me

It reminds me of leading a stallion into the breeding barn to meet up with a brood mare. Works fine for bloodstock but rather degrading for human beings.
And yes, also archaic for families that were knocked off their thrones more than 100 years ago to continue to bind their children to rules that actual reigning royal families no longer pay attention to.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

The whole thing just sounds so classist and archaic and awful to me

The entire concept of Monarchy is classist and archaic: in order to be Head of State, you have to born in the right position in the right family (and sometimes you have to be in communion with a specific religion). An 87 years old British woman who lives in London is the Head of State of Australia, Canada, New Zealand and another 13 countries.

And, surprisingly, Monarchy stills more democratic than Republic. I see no reason to consider awful the fact that a heir to the Brazilian Throne has to marry equally.

It reminds me of leading a stallion into the breeding barn to meet up with a brood mare. Works fine for bloodstock but rather degrading for human beings.

Well, you can become an activist who supports unequal marriages for members of the Brazilian Imperial Family. You can go to the Head of the Imperial House's front door to protest. Here is the address:

Itápolis Street, 873, Pacaembu, São Paulo.

But I have to advise you: he'll not change the House Laws because you think it's "degrading", nor will Prince Rafael ignore his duties because it's like a meeting of horse breeders.

 

[NGalitzine]

Is that why so many of Rafaels uncles have remained single, and presumably from what you have said also virginal? They just couldnt find an eligible princess willing to take them on or perhaps they have had long term relationships with women of unequal birth? How come they failed to "do their duty" and marry some princess?

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

So many? Sorry, but Prince Rafael has two uncles and an aunt who are unmarried, out of the twelve sons and daughters of Prince Pedro Henrique.

Marry isn't their only duty.

Princes Luiz and Bertrand didn't marry because they prefered to be 100% dedicated to Monarchist Movement. I don't know why Princess Isabel is unmarried. But many people decide to not get married.

But Prince Antônio fufill the duty of marry equally, like his sister, Princess Eleonora.

A Prince or Princess who decides to marry a commoner is free to renounce. Seven of Prince Rafael's uncles and aunts have renounced, and they are all happy with their families.

And I can't understand why are you so obsessed with the Princes' sexual activities.

 

[NGalitzine]

And I can't understand why are you so obsessed with the Princes' sexual activities.

I am not, you are the one who first mentioned that these prodigal children were all virgins until they eventually marry a prince or princess.

 

[HRHHermione]

The entire concept of Monarchy is classist and archaic...

The monarchies that have survived have managed to adapt, and have recognized that their rank doesn't make them inherently better than all other humans. They marry who they want to marry, and don't base their choice on bloodlines.

You're of course, welcome to have your own opinion, but personally, I'm glad that the families that operate this way no longer have any real rank or power.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

I am not, you are the one who first mentioned that these prodigal children were all virgins until they eventually marry a prince or princess.

In fact I was answering why is so improbable that Prince Rafael will decide to just have a commoner partner: because his mother and his sister said that they only have sex after marriage (I can provide links, if you are able to read and listen in Portuguese).

Then you said that a healthy person will surely not stay as virgin until marriage and that Brazil has a very sexualised culture. Which many people here would consider remarks from someone who doesn't know anything about Brazil, its culture and tradition.

 

[NGalitzine]

Then you said that a healthy person will surely not stay as virgin until marriage and that Brazil has a very sexualised culture. Which many people here would consider remarks from someone who doesn't know anything about Brazil, its culture and tradition.

Perhaps, although it was the Brazilian concierge of our hotel in Rio who advised us of how sexual the Brazilian people are. He also told us that Brazilians are notoriously unfaithful to their partners and also very jealous as a result.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

The monarchies that have survived have managed to adapt, and have recognized that their rank doesn't make them inherently better than all other humans. They marry who they want to marry, and don't base their choice on bloodlines.

So, are you okay with a Prince having to follow a specific faith, or having the ask for Royal or Parliamentary consent to marry. But a Brazilian Prince marrying a foreign Princess is something utterly wrong?

Contraditory, in my opinion.

You're of course, welcome to have your own opinion, but personally, I'm glad that the families that operate this way no longer have any real rank or power.

Well, the Brazilian Monarchy was deposed because the Princess Regent put an end on slavery, not because she marry a Prince.

In fact, Brazilians are conservative people. Dynastic Marriage is supported by the marjority of the Monarchists (21% of the population). Even republicans says that the Imperial Family was right keeping with their traditions.

Perhaps, although it was the Brazilian concierge of our hotel in Rio who advised us of how sexual the Brazilian people are. He also told us that Brazilians are notoriously unfaithful to their partners and also very jealous as a result.

Well, I don't know which was this hotel, or who the concierge was, but I can say he was lying to you.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

Perhaps, although it was the Brazilian concierge of our hotel in Rio who advised us of how sexual the Brazilian people are. He also told us that Brazilians are notoriously unfaithful to their partners and also very jealous as a result.

I can't believe you are sufficiently obtuse to base your opinion about an entire people on a concierge's remark.

I always travel to Brazil, and I have lots of friends and family there. It's a wonderful country, with a wonderful people, culture and history.

Your comments (and the concierge's too) are totally nonsense.

 

[NGalitzine]

Perhaps he was wrong, although we saw plenty of evidence to the contrary on the beaches and in the nightclubs of Rio so no I do not feel that I am at all obtuse. Perhaps we just hung out with a younger more active crowd that you and Brazilian. I do however agree that it is a wonderful vibrant country and the people are quite friendly.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

Perhaps we just hung out with a younger more active crowd that you and Brazilian.

People of that ilk exists in all countries. It's up to you decide to hang with them.