Restoration of Monarchy in Austria

[Kit]

That goes for the former Ruling Family as well but only since less then two months.It was only this spring of 2011 that the Austrian Parliament abolished a Law prohibiting Members of the former Reigning House to participate in political elections.Now they are allowed,all Habsburgers could run for President of Austria.It was against EU Law to exclude them,and if Austria wants to have the benefits of being a EU member state,then they also have to live by its rules in respect to human rights....Nevertheless,it took them years...Never mind,it's done,and just in time for Archduke Otto to witness before his demise.
That's absolutely correct!

This was a part of the so called Habsburg-laws made in 1919 cause the Austrian politicans were scared that the Habsburgs would try to take over again and abolish the Republic.
Nowadays less than 2 per cent of the Austrian population want a monarchy or wouldn't mind to have one so the chances of the Habsburgs taking over again and restaurating the monarchy are pretty bad ;-) What's more they or to be more specific AD Karl as head of the house don't even want to take over so this discussion is really just hypothetical. And the Republic is by now strong enough to even have a member of the former Imperial family as President without any fears that the monarchy will be restaured again. It is by now nearly impossible to achieve a monarchy against the vote of the Austrian citizens and without consent of the Austrian Parliament. And IF it would be accomplished then it would be a totally totalitarian regime which nobody wants again and NOT a constitutional monarchy.

 

[Kit]

i Kasumi. I am sure Kit will clarify this better than me. But meanwhile what I know is that Austria does not recognize any official aristocracy, titles and so on. So as long as you are a citizen I don't think there is any problem to run for office.

yep that's correct!

The fact the Habsburgs are catholics does not mean in the case of Restoration the Vatican rules the country.

Couldn't agree more. I am sorry but just the thought of the Vatican taking over is hilarious, the funniest thing I have ever heard. And by the way the Catholic Church doesn't deal with Austrian Policy since 1938. Kardinal König made sure of that, we already had a Catholic Regime between 1934-38 and nobody wants this ever again.

 

[Cory]

In this moment the number of royalists in Austria is really tiny but a campaign of advocacy well prepared could bring to a real change in the next years.Archduke Karl is quite respected in Austria and the importance of the Habsburg is largely accepted.

 

[Johann Salvator]

No,not because of transparancy,but because the fool of the day at Downingstreet says so to gain votes and look popular,it's saving their behind,not HM savings...

...There people cough up for any guy leaving office every 4 or 8 years.Means,many guys and even more coughs,and in some states a lot of security staff for the rest of their lives as well as all the perks,whereas with a Monarchy our style,one wouldn't have these outrageous shows of selfimportance by induviduals not used nor born nor ever ment to be in the Offices of Heads of State...Could name a few of these republics if nessecary..but it doesn't take much to figur that one out .......

Simply brilliant! It was pleasure to read this

If I could humbly add that I don't think that when talking about institutions of the State money should be brought up as a reason to change.
If I propose a change from monarchy to republic or the other way around I shouldn't do it because is cheaper.

Finally, I believe that when there is transparency and a true sense of duty towards ones people, a constitutional monarchy can cost the same or even less than a republic. Presidents can fall into vain expenses just for their ego while doing very little for the image of their country. While a monarch will always be more recognizable and just by birth will not have the need/want to start a personality cult.
Will a British president and family expend less money in security (for the rest of their lives and adding)? Will a Spanish president live in a more humble palace than La Zarzuela? Will a Dutch president not host a state dinner at the Royal Palace of Amsterdam for a foreign visitor?

 

[Johann Salvator]

In a recession, one of the arguments for and against a monarchy concerns the financial cost. Is it cheaper to have a royal court, or to have a (sometimes a bit colourless) head of state ?

To avoid confussion. Royal courts don't exist anymore. We should even clarify that one thing is a Royal Family and another a Royal House. The latter receives financial support from the State, it constitutes very few people and they have to work for it.

 

[Kit]

Archduke Karl is quite respected in Austria and the importance of the Habsburg is largely accepted.

I am sorry but AD KARL is NOT well respected in Austria, neither by the population nor by the politicans. Many Austrians didn't even know his father till the funeral on Saturday. AD Karl has made several mistakes during his short-lived political career (World Vision scandal, etc.) and is generally seen as very conservative, illusional and snobbish and not half the man his father used to be.
If the name Habsburg and his glorious history is accepted, then because of Emperor FJ and Empress Elizabeth who are still worshipped especially in Bad Ischl where FJs birthday is celebrated every year. Really impressive by the way with a huge ball at the end of the day which also the Austrian Aristocracy attends.The descendants of Emperor Karl and especially AD Karl as head of the family are either ignored or heavily critisized, especially in case of AD Karl.

 

[Cory]

Why do they critisize Archduke Karl?

 

[Kit]

Why do they critisize Archduke Karl?

There were or still are several reasons. First of all the great majority of the Austrian Population doesn't even know him or didn't know his father till the Funeral on Sunday. All the Habsburgs after Emperor FJ were pretty easily forgotten especially by the younger generation including Emperor Karl. Most Austrians still claim FJ was the last Emperor. (I also wonder about this myself - don't they sleep during history lessons in school ??? ;-) This is by the way one of the main reasons why there won't be a Restauration of the Monarchy in Austria. And as far as those who know who he is are concerned: most of the incidents happened when I was still a child so I don't remember exactly but he worked part-time as a showmaster on national TV station with a show "Who is who" which was a total flop. Then he started a short-lived political career for the Austrian ÖVP in the European Parliament but this wasn't very successful too. I think he got kicked out, afterwards he founded his own party but he didn't get enough votes to enter the European Parliament. I remember he began studying in 1986 but he still hasn't achieved his degree. Then I remember he wanted to bring a Tiara owned by Empress Zita over the Swiss frontier to Austria without paying customs. Needless to say he was caught and heavily criticised for trying this. And then there was a scandal about donations to the World Vision Foundation that were embezzled either by him personally or by people from his entourage. You should google it I can't remember exactly.
Then he seems to be nice and he certainly is a good father to his children but he is a snob in certain aspects, he has certain conservative views about himself and his position within the family. I would also add concering certain intellectual qualities he will never live up to his father's model.
Then there are the several branches within the family who don't like him, don't accept his marriage and certainly don't accept his position as head of the family. Especially the descendants of Emperor FJ are not on speaking-tearms with him. AD Karl has also made several remarks especially about CP Rudolph in the past which were just wrong.

 

[agogo]

Do Austrians desire that their monarchy return? Is this a popular sentiment in Austria today?

 

[Kit]

Do Austrians desire that their monarchy return? Is this a popular sentiment in Austria today?

No! Absolutely not. We are quite happy with our Republic. So no need to change that. The time for monarchy is definitely over in Austria.

 

[Cory]

Le's hope young Ferdinand will be more popular than his father.

 

[Warren]

The lengthy discussion which spun out from the topic of an Austrian restoration has been moved to a new thread in Members' Corner:
Austria, the Anschluss and WWII

 

[Cory]

No political party in Austria is in favour of Monarchy?Any royalist Associations?

 

[Benedict XVI]

Yes it's the biggest monarchist party in Austria it is called the SGA. I think since the death of the Crown prince the party has been able to get more attention and more popular with the people. There is something about seeing a monarchs funeral that people admire. Especially in a country like Austria where they have not had a monarchy since 1918.

 

[LordofPride]

I find it difficult that Austria would accept the Habsburgs as their Arch-ducal/Imperial/Royal Dynasty again. I'm not saying its impossible, they have greater chances than any of the French Claimants IMHO, but the first step would be to repeal the Habsburg Laws and return some of the Family's property before any serious debate would even occur in Austria about returning to the days of the Archduchy/Empire/Kingdom whatever its to be called.

The Problem with the repeal of the Habsburg Laws would be the decision of what exactly would be returned. Especially since the Austrian President resides in the Hofburg Palace and parts of it is used as a Convention Center and Museums. And by previous statements in this thread, the Habsburgs need some good PR.

 

[Kit]

The thing is the Austrian citizens are quite content with their Republic and there is no longer a connection to the Habsburgs as it was after 1918. With 1955 when the Austrian government achieved to get the "Staatsvertrag" (state contract which ended the occupation of Austria) the connection to the Habsburgs was lost. There were huge protests in the early 60ies after AD Otto was allowed to enter Austria again (he had by the time renounced his birthright) because many feared he would try to take regain the throne. Austrian history especially in the 20th century is a very complex matter and to explain the Austrian mentality to others is pretty difficult. But the moment Austria was declared free on 5/15/1955 the land and its citizens became a Republic and no longer a clandestine monarchy. The Austrian tourism industry still works with Austria's past a monarchy under Franz Joseph I. and Elisabeth but apart from that the majority of the Austrians don't have any connection at all to the Habsburgs. Most of them don't even know exactly who FJ and Elisabeth were not to mention the fact that the Habsburg family still exists and that AD Otto was the head of it and would have been Emperor.

 

[Diarist]

Thank you Kit, a very interesting explanation.

I do have another question for you: I was always taught that [now that Austria is a republic] the Austrian Constitution no longer recognises titles of nobility [although they appear to be used socially]. Is that so?

Thank you

Alex

 

[Kit]

It is indeed so. The nobility and their titles ceased to exist in Austria in 1919. So AD Otto was just Dr. Otto Habsburg-Lothringen in Austria and his son Karl is just Karl Habsburg-Lothringen. Nevertheless within certain circles titles are still used when people are adressing each other.

 

[NGalitzine]

Yes, the use of titles and even "Von" is not allowed in Austria. It was mentioned at the time of Ottos funeral how strict the Austrian media were in calling him Dr Otto Habsburg. Austria differs from Germany where titles are incorporated into peoples names.

 

[Blue_]

I thought the journalist said "Von Habsburg" one time during the funeral and had to make public excuses... That's so exaggerated!

 

[Kit]

Well that's the way it is ;-)

 

[maria-olivia]

Austria will remain a Republic.
One of the highlights of Archduke Otto’s Funerals was the Kaiser hymn when the President of the Republic attended.
It was an exceptionnel Event for a exceptional Man!

 

[Cory]

Only a prophet could know the future.

 

[Kit]

@Cory: maria-olivia is right. Austria will remain a Republic. I have already explained in my post above that there is no longer a connection to the Habsburgs as far as the Austrian citizens are concerned. They are simply not interested in them and the majority of the Austrian people doesn't even know that the monarchy didn't end with Franz Joseph who while he was alive was not even that popular with the people the movies would like to make us believe. And I really am somewhat astonished that several posters in this forum still can not believe and/or accept the fact that Austria is a Republic and there is no wish at all to change that by the Austrian people.

 

[Lady Daphne]

As an American who's interested in European Royalty, I went to Vienna with the expectation of visiting Mayerling. I told one of the maids in my hotel that I was going out to Mayerling that day, and she didn't know what I was talking about. I gave a brief explanation of the situation, and she just frowned and shrugged. She said she'd never heard anything like that. I recently read that Otto's successor Karl and his wife, Francesca von Tyssen have separated. What a shame.

 

[Diarist]

It is indeed so. The nobility and their titles ceased to exist in Austria in 1919. So AD Otto was just Dr. Otto Habsburg-Lothringen in Austria and his son Karl is just Karl Habsburg-Lothringen. Nevertheless within certain circles titles are still used when people are adressing each other.

Yes, the use of titles and even "Von" is not allowed in Austria. It was mentioned at the time of Ottos funeral how strict the Austrian media were in calling him Dr Otto Habsburg. Austria differs from Germany where titles are incorporated into peoples names.

That you so much Kit and NGalitzine. When I was working full time [in the Civil Service] we had a book [actually, it should more accurately be called an 'office manual'] which formed the basis of our training on 'correct form and modes of address etc' and this stated exactly what you and NGalitzine have said about Austrian and German titles respectively. I don't want to take this thread too off-topic, but it was why we were taught that Princess Michael of Kent had no legal basis in either Austria or Germany to call herself Baroness Marie-Christine von Reibnitz [ there was always some discussion as to whether hers was either an Austrian or a German title because of the way that Silesia had 'moved around' etc]

Anyway, thank you both again for your confirmation.

Alex

 

[Kataryn]

I don't want to take this thread too off-topic, but it was why we were taught that Princess Michael of Kent had no legal basis in either Austria or Germany to call herself Baroness Marie-Christine von Reibnitz [ there was always some discussion as to whether hers was either an Austrian or a German title because of the way that Silesia had 'moved around' etc]

Anyway, thank you both again for your confirmation.

Alex

It depends if Princess Michael had a German or Austrian passport. It is true that she wouldn't have been Baroness Marie-Christine von Reibnitz in any case, but as a German citizen she could have used the name Marie Christine Baronin von Reibnitz (female form of Baron is Baronin, no matter if the wife or the daughter of a baron).

A lot of families from Tyrolia who had possessions in Bavaria moved to Germany after 1918 and took on German citizenship in order to keep their title but relocated to Austria after WWII, keeping the German version of their name including the title...

 

[Benedict XVI]

Does anyone know of a statistic for people in favor in austria for a monarchy?

 

[Kit]

none that I am aware of. there isn't even the slightest interest for a pro-monarchy survey let alone a reinstallment of said monarchy.

 

[Cory]

Archduke Karl never speaks about a possible Restoration?