Imperial House of Habsburg 2: June 2007-

[Avalon]

Welcome to the Second Thread dedicated to one of the most famous dynasties in the world - the Habsburgs.

Part I can be found here.

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[flcty]

Does anyone know anything about the recent marriage of Archduke Carl Christian to Estelle de Saint Romain [judging by the surname, a noble lady ]. Is it 'equal'? Were there any hiccups? Any pictures avaliable of the guests and the wedding day in magazines or online photo agencies? A huge thanks in advance .

[BurberryBrit]

There are only a few pics available on the "Other Noble Weddings" thread. It seems like the Habsburgs have been quite open to marriages to commoners. Count Ferdinand is married to Mary Nyanut Macher, Count Phillipp is married to Mayasuni Health, Count Conrad married Ashmita Gomi and yet another married Tereza Joao. So, not only diversity in terms of ethnicity and culture, but also in terms of non-equal marriages.

I'm not sure is the former Estelle de Saint Romain was a commoner though.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by flctylu

Does anyone know anything about the recent marriage of Archduke Carl Christian to Estelle de Saint Romain [judging by the surname, a noble lady ]. Is it 'equal'? Were there any hiccups? Any pictures avaliable of the guests and the wedding day in magazines or online photo agencies? A huge thanks in advance .

The bride is from an french noble Family. The actual Point de Vue has a report about the wedding.

Point de Vue *.:.* Sommaire

[Jo of Palatine]

At the moment all Habsburg marriages are "equal" as Dr. Otto von Habsburg, the Head of the family, declares them so.

[Marengo]

The marriages to non-christians are equal too?

[BurberryBrit]

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

At the moment all Habsburg marriages are "equal" as Dr. Otto von Habsburg, the Head of the family, declares them so.

Dr. Otto must be a real forward thinking man who puts his family's happiness above protocol.

[Marengo]

not so much forward thinking as a realist. And of course he has some interest in this too, considering the marriage of his eldest son to Chessie Thyssen.

[BurberryBrit]

I don't know who Chessie Thyssen is?

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by BurberryBrit

I don't know who Chessie Thyssen is?

His daughter-in-law Francesca. Before she and Archduke Karl married only marriages highborn noble Ladies were approved. When Karl fell in love with Countess Caimilla Habsburg-Lothringen of a morganatic Tuscany branch the House Laws where changed and then marriages to all noble marriages where approved and only to commoners where morganatic.

[Sancia]

Originally Posted by BurberryBrit

There are only a few pics available on the "Other Noble Weddings" thread. It seems like the Habsburgs have been quite open to marriages to commoners. Count Ferdinand is married to Mary Nyanut Macher, Count Phillipp is married to Mayasuni Health, Count Conrad married Ashmita Gomi and yet another married Tereza Joao. So, not only diversity in terms of ethnicity and culture, but also in terms of non-equal marriages.

I'm not sure is the former Estelle de Saint Romain was a commoner though.

Mayasuni and Konrad are archdukes, not counts. Their mother is countess Ludmila von Galen, whose mother was a Kinsky von Wchinitz und Tettau.

[flcty]

I was just reading over on the Benelux board that the feud between the senior branch [Otto + decendants] + the junior branch [Lorenz] is still going on due to the fact that none of Otto's kids made an appearance. Can anyone shed any light on this. Do any of the other archdukes care anymore?

[Marengo]

What appaerance are you talking about? I never heard about this particular rift.
I do know that Otto had a disagreement with his brothers Karl-Ludwig and Felix about renouncing his rights to the Austrian throne (or something like that) in the 50-ties and about him allowing his son/other members to marry un-equally.

[flcty]

Originally Posted by Marengo

I do know that Otto had a disagreement with his brothers Karl-Ludwig and Felix about renouncing his rights to the Austrian throne (or something like that) in the 50-ties and about him allowing his son/other members to marry un-equally.

That's it, in the bold. Robert was really against the idea, guess, Lorenz is following suit. Funny to note that [read it somewhere] that Otto is the godfather of Lorenz.

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by flctylu

That's it, in the bold. Robert was really against the idea, guess, Lorenz is following suit. Funny to note that [read it somewhere] that Otto is the godfather of Lorenz.

Fact is that according to the House Laws of the Archducal House of Habsburg, the Head of the House is the absolutistic ruler of his family. Thus Otto can well do what he pleases - the others have no say in it. In the past the family has always been able to persuade potential Heads of the House to give their position to another member if they felt he was not up to scratch (think emperor Ferdinand and his brother Franz Karl, who gave up throne and inheritance rights in favour of Franz Karl's son Franz Joseph).

As Otto still is very much in charge, the others have to accept his decisions. As I said before in this thread: being of the high nobility in Germany was characterized through the potential right to marry into the Archducal House, to be considered equal. But that was when the empire still existed and people were not all considered to be equal. As a former German politician Dr. Otto von Habsburg subscribed to the constitution of Germany, stating that all people are equal. I'm sad that there are others who don't subscribe to this view.

[susan alicia]

Dracula's Castle*could become a Transylvanian resort - CNN.com

[flcty]

Hypothetical question. If Lorenz were to challenge Carl's headship after Otto dies; Would Lorenz first need to notify the Belgian govermant?

[Alison20]

Would there be any grounds to challenge Karl's succession? If you believe in the Archiducal House Rules, then Otto has the right to amend them. If you don't believe in these rules applying nowadays, then Karl can marry who he likes.

I think Otto is being very sensible in sanctioning marriages to members of noble families. At the very least, genetically, the intermarrying between a small number of families only would not lead to healthy stock.

[Benjamin]

I don't think there are any valid reasons to challenge Karl's succession. But I'm sure that the more traditional members of the family (such as the Estes) won't agree to his son Ferdinand Zvonimir succeeding to the Headship.

By the way, Archduke Otto has reportedly stepped down in favor of Karl (as of 1 Jan 2007). He sent a letter to the rest of the Habsburgs stating such (see here http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/ind...html#msg248461; the same information has been posted on Royaute 2).

[inigo]

The Archduke Gerhard (b. 1957), brother of Archdukes Lorenz, prince of Belgium, and Martin, is still unmarried. Has he been romantically connected with some lady of noble birth?