Double-engagement in the House of Habsburg: Christoph & Adelaide; Imre & Kathleen


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maria-olivia said:
Archdukes Christian and Marie Astrid are living a real family life, I think they did not expect all this threads about Katie..
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If they didn't realize the public actions and the jobs of their future daughter-in-law would be a matter of discussion, they are a bit naive IMHO.
 
BurberryBrit said:
Are people still doing the dowry thing in 2011? Also, I would hope that if a dowry was expected, that was discussed before an engagement. :ohmy:
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To answer your question: in certain circles, yes. The subject typically comes up between the engagement and the marriage, and it is not necessarily discussed beforehand. Of course, in those circles the question of the dowry is known and expected, so it is not a surprise. Quite different from the United States, where it will likely come as a shock to Miss Walker's family.
 
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I would doubt very much that there would be any expectation of a dowry from katie's parents.The last time i heard of such a thing was when Marie Chantal married the crown prince of the greek royal house and even then it wasn't exactly a dowry.Her father gave her $250,00,000 dollars to set her up for married life and I have no doubt that the money is hers and would not be part of a settlement if they divorced.
 
Katie is not an archduchess yet ... the wedding has not taken place ... but she will be when she marries!

EmpressRouge said:
I actually know people who graduated from Northern Kentucky University. HI&H Archduchess Kathleen (nee Walker): sounds like something out of an Edith Wharton novel.
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I doubt that the family does doweries these days ... Katie, in one article, said she was born to a single mother, who later married Robert Walker (not sure if he is Katie's natural father.)

claypoint2 said:
I hear you, Ceallach (#20). We will have to wait and see. Marie-Christine, Rodolphe, and little Leopold returned to Belgium for Christmas, so I assumed that Imre and Christoph had done the same... and, since the engagements were just announced in Brussels, I thought that their fianc[FONT=&quot]ées were with them as well. But I admit that there are some assumptions here on my part.

Having said that, I would be surprised if Imre's parents were thrilled that he is marrying an American, no matter how Catholic or how spotless her reputation. In spite of sharing moral and religious values (which, I am sure, is the most important thing), there are enormous differences in culture and upbringing between them, and those are also significant. Not to mention that, in the social circle of ADs Carl-Christian and Marie-Astrid, parents have the perennial hope that their children will uphold the family lineage and history by "marrying well"... and by "marrying well" they do not mean marrying an American.

As someone else has said on another site, I hope that Katie really knows what she is doing, and that she is aware of the kind of world that she is marrying into. Just to mention one feature, the question of the dowry will be a very serious one, and this may come as a shock to the Walker family. Let's hope that they are willing and able to give a good sum that will help to "sweeten the pill" for the Habsburgs to accept her. In any event, Imre and Katie's relationship, which apparently is fairly new (approximately one year old by all accounts) will be tested before they marry.
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MarleneKoenig said:
Katie, in one article, said she was born to a single mother, who later married Robert Walker (not sure if he is Katie's natural father.)
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Ah. If this is true, then from a psychological standpoint the circumstances of her birth offer a possible explanation for the degree of her militancy against abortion. Of course we don't know what choices her mother did or didn't face, but it's easy to imagine that Katie feels - perhaps more than most people - grateful for the gift of life. (This is not to defend some of her extreme, exclusionary points of view, but rather to try to understand her human story... impossible as it is without knowing her).
 
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I am not too surprised to see Archduke Imre and Archduke Christoph downgrading the bloodline. Marriage for love is in vogue nowadays. It would be advisable for Ms. Walker to tone her personal stance on abortion down as her rumbustious tone is quite unpleasant.
 
Kataryn said:
Alas, no new Sternkreuzordens-Archduchesses for the House of Habsburg-Lothringen, as those ladies need to have 16 noble ancestors.... Seems modern times even come to the more "noble" branches of the family as well as they came to Otto and his ilk.
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While of course I want people to marry whome they love, I too am very disapointed in the choices
 
Katie

"Correcting your ninth grade English teacher, who was trying to tell the class that the Spanish Inquisition was one of the worst atrocities of the second millennium, now that, friends, will earn you a nickname like “Churchie”.
Not that I minded … much. My parents raised us with a certain awareness that the Church was going through rough times. If it was “abnormal” for us to kneel during consecration, eat fish on Fridays, pray Rosaries outside abortion mills, oppose sex-education and altar girls – so be it. We were abnormal."

"College campuses are great places to start a revolution. Lenin and Hitler knew it. The countercultural revolutionaries of the 1960s knew it. And pro-life college students know it too: The campus-led pro-life revolution is in full swing. This one is countering the culture of death, ushered in by the counterculturalists of the 1960s. It is impassioned and ready to fire up fellow students to stand up for the most abandoned, and to be courageous and uncompromising pro-life leaders."

"A typical American college campus offers the following curriculum: Timeless prerequisites cheap beer, late-night parties, hapless academic advisors, expensive textbooks and leftist professors. Then there are the modern electives radical feminist militancy, homosexual activism and a contraceptive sex culture many find irresistible. Most campus health clinics are veritable marketing tools for Planned Parenthood. From dispensing the abortion chain’s condom lollipops in your choice of flashy colors and other sex products, to referring pregnant students to the nearest abortion business, they do it all"

"Currently, around 200 pro-life campus groups operate around the country. Most have a difficult mission: Educate the campus about abortion and other forms of murdering innocent human beings, such as euthanasia, infanticide, human embryonic stem cell research and human cloning, in order to foster respect for human beings at every stage of development."

birth control causes diesease and is an abortion
Katie Walker - YouTube

Wanting Notre Dame's status as a Catholic University to be removed for having President Obama at Commencement
Notre Dame Scandal on Fox News Sunday Morning - YouTube

Personhood
Katie Walker CPAC - YouTube

Katie Walker of American Life League at Values Voters Summit 2010 - YouTube
 
This gives more info on Adelaide and I think it makes her look good -well travelled and educated, speaks many languages. He father has also worked at the embassy in Saudi Arabia, and I suspect her and her family are more diplomatic. However, I think they should wait until she finishes University to marry.

Quote from #40 referenced article 's translation, but it does not translate very well.

L 'Archduke Christoph, 23, is the third child of famille.Né February 2, 1988, he completed his education in Geneva Institutes of Our Lady of the Lake and Florimont and the Lycée Saint-Bonnet de Galaure in France before graduating graduation to Bruxelles.C is in a year sabbatical Light Youth, a school founded by Father Daniel-Ange, whom he met Miss Adelaide Drape-Frisch.
Ils poursuivent tous deux leurs études à Philanthropos, Institut Européen d'Etudes Anthropologiques, à Fribourg (Suisse) où ils obtiennent leur certificat d'anthropologie.Christoph suit ensuite des études en Relations Internationales et en Travail Social.​
They both pursue their studies Philanthropos, European Institute of Anthropological Studies in Fribourg (Switzerland) where they get their certificate of Anthropology. Christoph then follows studies in International Relations and Social Work.
Il travaillera auprès de jeunes en situation familiale difficile, s'occupera pendant plusieurs mois de personnes handicapées dans la communauté de l'Arche fondée par Jean Vanier, et travaillera un an en tant qu'aide infirmier dans un Etablissement Médico-Social à Fribourg.​
He will work with young people in difficult family situation, take care for several months of disability in the community of L'Arche founded by Jean Vanier, and will work one year as an assistant nurse in a nursing home in Freiburg.
Il est actuellement engagé dans une entreprise financière afin d'accumuler l'expérience nécessaire pour ensuite entamer une formation de coaching.​
He is currently involved in a financial firm in order to accumulate the necessary experience and then start training in coaching.
Passionné par les relations humaines, son désir profond est de travailler à aider les autres à donner le meilleur d'eux-mêmes.Adélaïde Drapé-Frisch, de nationalité française, 22 ans, est née en région parisienne.​
Passionate about human relationships, his deep desire is to work to help others to the best of themselves. Adelaide Drape-Frisch, a French national, 22, was born in Paris.
L'aînée de 5 enfants, et fille de diplomate, elle est scolarisée à la maison par sa mère avec ses frères et sœurs jusqu'à l'âge de 10 ans.​
The eldest of five children, and daughter of a diplomat, she was educated at home by his mother with his siblings until the age of 10 years.
Monsieur Philippe Drapé-Frisch est ensuite nommé à Londres où la famille résidera 4 ans.​
Drape-Philippe Frisch was appointed in London where the family resides four years.
Son travail l'amène ensuite à Belgrade (Serbie) où la famille vivra également 4 années.​
His work led him then to Belgrade (Serbia) where the family also live four years.
Adélaïde y passe son Baccalauréat International à la « International School of Belgrade ».De retour en France, elle effectue une année à Jeunesse Lumière où elle rencontre l'Archiduc Christoph puis une deuxième à Philanthropos, avant de se lancer dans des études de Psychologie à Paris, où elle est en troisième année de Licence.​
Adelaide spends her International Baccalaureate at the "International School of Belgrade." Back in France, it performs a Youth Light year where she met the Archduke Christoph Philanthropos then a second, before embarking on studies in Psychology Paris, where she is in her third year of Licence.
Ayant bénéficié d'une éducation très internationale, elle parle Français, Allemand, Anglais et Serbe.A cette fête familiale assistaient notamment l'Archiduchesse Carl d'Autriche, née Princesse Yolande de Ligne (Grand-mère du fiancé) ainsi que la reine Fabiola de Belgique, tante de l'Archiduchesse Marie-Astrid ainsi que les princes Félix, Louis et Sébastien de Luxembourg et leur soeur la princesse Alexandra, enfants du couple grand-ducal, la princesse Margaretha de Liechtenstein (née princesse de Luxembourg)...​
Having enjoyed a very international education, she speaks French, German, English and Serbe.A family attended the celebration including Carl Archduchess of Austria, née Princess Yolande of Ligne (Grandmother of the groom) and Queen Fabiola Belgium, aunt of the Archduchess Marie-Astrid and the Princes Felix and Sebastian Louis of Luxembourg and their sister, Princess Alexandra, the children of Grand Duke and Duchess, Princess Margaretha of Liechtenstein (née Princess of Luxembourg) ...
 
:previous:
Ms.Drapé-Frisch's multilingualism is impressive. Her family seems to be accepted by European nobility.
Ceallach said:
"Correcting your ninth grade English teacher, who was trying to tell the class that the Spanish Inquisition was one of the worst atrocities of the second millennium, now that, friends, will earn you a nickname like “Churchie”. Not that I minded … much. My parents raised us with a certain awareness that the Church was going through rough times. If it was “abnormal” for us to kneel during consecration, eat fish on Fridays, pray Rosaries outside abortion mills, oppose sex-education and altar girls – so be it. We were abnormal." ... [snipped]
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So if the Spanish Inquisition means "the Church is going through rough times", what about today's allegations of sexual abuse? Ms. Walker's justification of misdeeds by Roman Catholic Church is indicative of dichotomous thinking. Such thinking may be viewed as immature.
 
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Katie Walker seems to me very extreme in her views, but if she's accepted by her fiances family what are we gonna do? I hope the wedding doesn't go through because she seems like one of those women who loves to shove her views down peoples throats and I'm sure the families will get tired of that attitude pretty soon.
 
Katie does not seem to be a person I would like to know. We would disagree on almost everything and she does not strike me as the type of person who could agree to disagree and then move on.
 
Regardless of whether or not one agrees with Miss Walker's points of view, the rigidity of her stance does not bode well for her psychological well-being or that of her family. Hers is a good example of black-and-white thinking, in which things and people are deemed "all good" (e.g., the Church and everything it does) or "all bad" (e.g., anyone who challenges or merely questions those positions). It's a form of dichotomous thinking, as Al Bina points out above.

The technical name in psychology is "splitting," and it is considered a primitive defense mechanism. Among other things, it suggests a limited capacity for compassion, given that compassion is based on an ability to entertain and try to understand - from the inside - the complexity and richness of human experience. Jesus Christ was a wonderful embodiment of compassion. By contrast, Miss Walker seems compelled to reduce many things to simple, rigid, black-and-white precepts that must followed blindly... otherwise, a person is to be condemned and excluded (by refusing them Holy Communion, for example).

Sadly, she reminds me of why people say that some elements in Roman Catholicism are essentially the Pharisees of Christianity. They think that it's all about rigid adherence to rules, but they lose the Spirit in the process.
 
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Sooooo, anyone else think there's a possibility this wedding (Imre and Katie) won't take place? :blink:

Although Imre seems like the kind to honor his promise and since they did a whole blessing ceremony and everything, is it possible he didn't quite know everything about Miss Walker and all this stuff coming out will make him think again?
 
BurberryBrit said:
Sooooo, anyone else think there's a possibility this wedding (Imre and Katie) won't take place? :blink:

Although Imre seems like the kind to honor his promise and since they did a whole blessing ceremony and everything, is it possible he didn't quite know everything about Miss Walker and all this stuff coming out will make him think again?
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I think that is wishful thinking on part of those who (like me) dislike Kathleen’s extremist, ultra conservative opinion and the way she pushes her convictions forward. Kathleen has not been exactly secretive about her work for her ideals. So there is no reason to think that she kept her opions from AD Imre. We have to face the thougth that Imre shares her opinions and appreciates her publicity work. How else could he have fallen in love with her? Actually, I think that they will get married very quickly. Let’s not forget that Kathleen is very outspoken against pre-marital sex. Usually those people with long courtships/engagement periods are more liberal and modern in their view.
 
Ms. Kathleen Walker is certainly an interesting choice for a bride. It should be great fun watching her over the years.;)
I don't agree with her political views and I'm pro-choice, but I think as long as her protests are peaceful she is within her rights to do so.
There is a group of fundamentalists that protest outside of the abortion clinic in town where I live. They aren't allowed on the property but protest on the public sidewalk in front of the building.
I have a neighbour who is a nurse at the clinic, and she says the group is peaceful and that most people don't pay any attention to them.
I 100% agree that the women should not be harrassed. Still I also believe that peaceful assembly and protest are an important part of human rights, and I can't deny that to someone even I don't agree with their beliefs.
 
I think you are right Tilia, I think Imre knows full well what she believes in and probably agrees with it.She would never marry someone who didn't believe what she does.She seems very rigid in her beliefs and I don't think she would put up with a partner who had dissenting views.What this really makes me wonder about Imre
 
Tilia C. said:
We have to face the thougth that Imre shares her opinions and appreciates her publicity work. How else could he have fallen in love with her?
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marlene said:
I think you are right Tilia, I think Imre knows full well what she believes in and probably agrees with it.She would never marry someone who didn't believe what she does.She seems very rigid in her beliefs and I don't think she would put up with a partner who had dissenting views.What this really makes me wonder about Imre
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I agree with both you you, Tilia and Marlene. For my part, it is a disappointment to learn that this segment of the Habsburg family -- whom I have respected and admired for its discretion and quiet upholding of historical traditions -- might support such rigidity and closed-mindedness. It is one thing to be a faithful Catholic who advocates peacefully against abortion, but it is quite another to defend the Spanish Inquisition and to actively urge bishops to deny Holy Communion to politicians whose legal responsibility, after all, is to represent diverse constituencies.
 
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Tilia C. said:
I think that is wishful thinking on part of those who (like me) dislike Kathleen’s extremist, ultra conservative opinion and the way she pushes her convictions forward. Kathleen has not been exactly secretive about her work for her ideals. So there is no reason to think that she kept her opions from AD Imre. We have to face the thougth that Imre shares her opinions and appreciates her publicity work. ... [snipped].
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Most certainly Archduke Imre supports Ms. Walker's views. Furthermore Archduke Imre's strong pro-life opinion is not surprising. His uncle, Grand Duke Henri of Luxembourg, is known to hold the same views.
 
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:previous: Yes, Al Bina. But I doubt very much that Grand Duke Henri defends the Spanish Inquisition or actively advocates denying the Sacrament to anyone. Miss Walker's positions suffer from a sense of moral certainty and superiority, whereas Grand Duke Henri and his wife, Maria Teresa, strike me as people who try to live as faithful Catholics with humility and compassion for others.
 
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:previous:
Thanks for the photos, Stefanie!
Adelaide has gorgeous eyes. And toddler Leopold is such a cutie.:flowers:
 
I think Adelaide will be a wonderful addition to the family.She is multilingual, well travelled and well educated.Being the daughter of a diplomat I am sure she also has a keen understanding of the importance of discretion.
 
I went to the website for Jeunesse Lumiere (Youth Light) and it appears to be a program set up for young people between the ages of 18-30 where you do a sabbatical year studying Catholism ,praying and expanding your relationship with Jesus.I think on the whole this family is very, very devoutly Catholic.
 
I agree! Little Léopold is adorable, and his parents and grandparents look very well. Thank you, Stefanie.

I was especially glad to see the photo of the entire family, including the young fiancées, and I must say that they all look very happy... even Archduchess Yolande (née princesse de Ligne), who perhaps has only a small glint of something else in her eye.

I hope that both of these marriages prove healthy, happy, and long-lasting, although Miss Walker's (and perhaps also Archduke Imre's) rigidity does not bode well for their life as a couple and family.
 
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