Crown Prince Rudolf of Austria (1858-1889) and Mayerling

[Whiskers]

Pragmatic Sanction of 1713

The Pragmatic Sanction of 1713 was an edict issued by Emperor Charles VI to ensure that the Austrian throne and Habsburg lands could be inherited by a daughter. Since their marriage in 1708, Charles and his wife Elizabeth Christine had not had a son, and since 1711 Charles had been the sole living male Habsburg. Moreover, Charles' elder brother Joseph I had died without male issue, making female succession a very plausible contingency. Because the Salic law tradition precluded female inheritance, Charles VI needed to take extraordinary measures to avoid a disputed succession. These precautions proved wise as Charles VI was ultimately succeeded by his elder daughter Maria Theresa (born 1717). Nevertheless, her accession was promptly met with the outbreak of the War of the Austrian Succession.

The above Is quoted from Wikipedia

 

[MAfan]

Some thought that it could be argued that it was valid in case the emperor himself had only female offspring. it was no problem with his daughters Gisela, who had married a Bavarian prince and Marie-Valerie as she had married an archduke but what if Erzi decided on an equal marriage with a House which might press for her to become empress? Thus the emperor allowed Erzi to marry below her position on giving up all her rights to the throne. In exchange she got a large dowry and a good inheritance from her grandfather.

Your post made me recall that all the Archduchesses were required to renounce to their succession rights when they married, regardless of who they were going to marry to; this was, of course, in order to avoid possible succession issues.
So both Gisela, Marie Valerie and Erzsi had to renounce to their right to the throne when they married respectively to Prince Leopold of Bavaria, Archduke Franz Salvator and Prince Otto zu Windisch-Grätz (who btw was member of a Mediatized House, so his marriage to Elisabeth was regarded as equal).

 

[Kataryn]

...Prince Otto zu Windisch-Grätz (who btw was member of a Mediatized House, so his marriage to Elisabeth was regarded as equal).

In his book Elisabeth, the red Archduchess, historian Friedrich Weissensteiner writes that the Windisch-Graetz were not on the list of Houses the Habsburgs regarded as equal. So she had to leave the House of Habsburg, which eg Marie-Valerie did not. She only formally left the House of Habsbugr after WWII to keep her possessions according to the Habsburg-laws. Its quite an interesting scene he describes and that the emperor allowed her to keep her personal title and style.

 

[Warren]

According to this list the Windisch-Graetz were on the list of "acceptable" Houses.

source: House Law of the Austrian Imperial Family at heraldica.org
.

 

[Midwestern Mom]

Wasn't it one of the royal family that ended up killing himself in a hunting lodge or country house?


MM

 

[Johann Salvator]

Yes that was Rudolf, the Crown Prince 1n 1889. huge controversy about that!

 

[Midwestern Mom]

Yes that was Rudolf, the Crown Prince 1n 1889. huge controversy about that!

Yes wasn't he rather hmmm, socialist or communist in his political views? Is he also the one that was involved with 'working women' and thought to have a disease? I'm not as well versed with the Austrian family, could be confusing my royals.


MM

 

[Kit]

yes MM you are absolutely right. He didn't get along with his father FJ because of his liberal political views and yes he was definitely involved with prostitutes and had the so called-syphilis.

 

[Midwestern Mom]

OK so he was the one that was married to (Sophie?) and she ended up being barren because of his sexual disease....so his line died out with himself, if I am thinking about the right one.


MM

 

[Kit]

he was married to Princess Stephanie of Belgium and they had ONE child a daughter named Elizabeth (Erzsi in Hungarian) after her grandmother Empress Elizabeth. She married twice: first Prince Windischgraetz - very, very noble family. They had 4 children and several still living grand and great-grandchildren. And then she got a divorce and married an Austrian Socialist. She led a very interesting life - there is a book about her in German "Die rote Erzherzogin" (The red Archduchess) Red stands for the political party of the Austrian Socialists.

 

[Kit]

Archduchess Elisabeth Marie of Austria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

this is a short summary in English about her.

 

[Whiskers]

Kit, Let me ask you, Crown Prince Rudolf had many rumored liaisons with many lady's, before he was married to Princess Stephanie of Belgium even after.

But before he was married to Princess Stephanie of Belgium,
It was rumored that Rudolf had married Ferdinand IV's, the Grand Duke of Tuscany's oldest daughter by his first marriage Archduchess Maria Antonietta.

But Franz Joseph objected and had the marriage annulled, and Maria Antonietta was sent to a convent.

Do you believe this?

 

[NotAPretender]

I'd never heard this story - quite fascinating!

Rudolf's daughter, IIRC, became known as the "Red Archduchess" due to her devotion to radical causes. She was never in line to inherit. I read a biography of her and evidently she was quite the free spirit. She expertly rode a motorcycle that she nicknamed the "Silver Spirit."

Someone like her embodied why Austria would best be not a monarchy again. The randomness of birth doesn't confer an ability to rule. She might have been the perfect monarch for the country but was barred because of her sex.

 

[Johann Salvator]

Constitutional monarchs do not rule, they are Heads of State. For European and other nations with a history of monarchy there is no one better than the rightful monarch to represent the people.

 

[Kit]

...before he was married to Princess Stephanie of Belgium, it was rumored that Rudolf had married Ferdinand IV's, the Grand Duke of Tuscany's oldest daughter by his first marriage Archduchess Maria Antonietta.

No. First of all Rudolph didn't want to marry at all, not even Stephanie of Belgium but he had to marry because of this father's orders. And he wouldn't have been able to marry without his father's consent! No priest would have done this. Second if it would be true then FJ wouldn't have objected because the bride was also an Austrian AD and therefore absolutely fit to be one day Empress of Austria. And I highly doubt the pope would have annulled this marriage, he didn't even divorce Rudolph and Stephanie.
Third there is a very good biography about CP Rudolph by Brigitte Hamann. You should absolutely read it, it is one of the best biographies ever! Miss Hamann has investigated so many sources about CP Rudolph and till now I have never even heard about this possible marriage. She doesn't even mention this rumour

 

[Kataryn]

Third there is a very good biography about CP Rudolph by Brigitte Hamann. You should absolutely read it, it is one of the best biographies ever! Miss Hamann has investigated so many sources about CP Rudolph and till now I have never even heard about this possible marriage. She doesn't even mention this rumour

The rumour exists in fact and in certain genealogical sites it is even mentioned as a fact.
Like this one:
mandragore - GeneaNet

Dont's think there is truth in it, though.

 

[Kit]

Thanks Kataryn, I never heard about it before. But as I already said above I don't believe it. I could never have married without the consent of his father. It just wouldn't have been possible.

 

[Grandduchess24]

Princess Stephanie of Belgium, crown princess of Austria could have become empress of Austria but rudolf commited suicide with his mistress at mayerling. She then got married to a Hungarian count and proceeded despite the objections from her father. She did have a daughter with Rudolph but does anyone know if there are any biographies about her I mean I know that she wrote a memoir but it's in German. I wish to learn more about this princess who was to be empress of Austria.

 

[bilzei]

Crown Prince Rudolf Letters

I have many letters written to my great grandfather from Crown Prince Rudolf, they were very good friends. Do you know of anyone who would be interested? Thankyou...

 

[RobertvonLuxemborg]

I viewed the mini series The Crown Prince last night. I thought the film was mostly true to historical events. Kron Prinz Rudolf was, like his mother the Empress Elizabeth (Sissi), liberal in his view toward his people and open to progressive ideas in science, technology, education, land reform, and enfranchisement. What was glossed over was the manner of his death. The mini series implies a murder-suicide pact; Emperor Franz Joseph, the Imperial government, and the Vatican admit to suicide and one bullet; however, the police report states 5 shots from a revolver not owned by the Kron Prinz. Furthermore, it is reported that Lady Mary Vetsera died of blunt force trauma and was in rigor mortis while Kron Prinz Rudolf had defensive hand wounds and a single gunshot wound to the temple.

Empress Zita was of the view that the Kron Prinz was murdered. The only question being by whom. I believe Prime Minister Count Taafe and the Chief of Police (Vienna) and agents used by them killed the Kron Prinz. As the only son of the Emperor, His Imperial Highness could be forgiven much by Franz Joseph. Kron Prinz Rudolf had thrice turned down the offer of the Hungarian crown offered by representatives of Hungary. His Highness turned them down out of loyalty to his father, and I submit as an acknowledgement of the Imperial dynasty to which he belonged. Therefore, if out of favor with the Emperor that would have been a fleeting instant within the Imperial family, that is, Imperials are lasting whereas Prime Ministers are not. To threaten the heir is to commit High Treason.

Thoughts on all or any part of the above please.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

In A Dark History: The Kings & Queens of Europe by Brenda Ralph Lewis, here is a description of Crown Prince Rudolf:

Rudolph, however, was not at all the dazzling Prince Charming he appeared to be.
He had inherited too much of his mother's melancholic nature and too little of his father's solidity.
​

It was at Laxenburg that Crown Princess Stephanie gave birth to a daughter on September 2, 1883.
​

 

[Ana Von Cleves]

Mayerling 1968 with Omar Shariff and Catherin Deneuve & Ava Gardner not to be missed.
Fall of Eagles 1970's mini series which deals with the whole lead up to WWI devotes an episode to this. Available on Youtube...I just watched it a couple of months ago.
I believe both tout the double suicide theory. But I believe they both think the poor girl was given poisoned tea. In fact in Fall of Eagles, the girls corpse shows no signs of violence at all.
Anyway, do check out Fall of Eagles.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Mayerling 1968 with Omar Shariff and Catherin Deneuve & Ava Gardner not to be missed.
Fall of Eagles 1970's mini series which deals with the whole lead up to WWI devotes an episode to this. Available on Youtube...I just watched it a couple of months ago.
I believe both tout the double suicide theory. But I believe they both think the poor girl was given poisoned tea. In fact in Fall of Eagles, the girls corpse shows no signs of violence at all.
Anyway, do check out Fall of Eagles.

I received "Fall Of Eagles" on DVD as a gift several years ago and believe it or not I have never gotten around to watching it. I would live to see "Mayerling" but I don't think it's available on DVD.

 

[Cory]

Who had the interest to see him dead?

 

[Ana Von Cleves]

My thoughts on Mayerling

According to what I have read of Rudolph and the investigation, I believe the following to be true, (I could be wrong on any or all points):
1. The authorities knew it was suicide right away, but there was an attempt to cover it up. A declared suicide cannot have a requiem mass or a burial in consecrated ground. Suicide was also thought to bring terrible shame on the family.
2. Various women in the Vienna area testified that Rudolph had been trying to find someone to enter a suicide pact with him for some time. A couple of years at least.
3. It is almost certain that the girl was murdered by Rudolph in that she did not die by her own hand. Whether she agreed to allow him to kill her or not, no one can say.
4. Zita may have been in denial, but his parents were not. I believe they both acknowledged the suicide for what it was. Rudolph left 3 suicide notes: one to his mother, one to his sister and I believe one to his valet.
5. The church judged suicide brought on by mental distress or instability and allowed his requiem mass and burial. Mental instability was probably true as he was a drug addict, suffering from syphilis.
6. Finally, I believe most respected historians accept that it was suicide.

Ana

 

[Blog Real]

Is there a movie about the story of Mayerling?

This story is very interesting.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Ana Von Cleves mentioned that Rudolph left a suicide note to his sister.
Which sister: Archduchess Gisela or Archduchess Marie Valerie?
​

 

[Ana Von Cleves]

Is there a movie about the story of Mayerling?

This story is very interesting.

Yes, please see my entry about 3 or 4 entries above this.

 

[Ana Von Cleves]

Ana Von Cleves mentioned that Rudolph left a suicide note to his sister.
Which sister: Archduchess Gisela or Archduchess Marie Valerie?
​

I believe Marie Valerie

 

[CyrilVladisla]

I believe Marie Valerie

In 1889 Archduchess Gisela was living with her husband, Prince Leopold of Bavaria.
In 1889 Archduchess Marie Valerie was not yet married.
​