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06-18-2014, 09:29 PM
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Gentry
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Our Town, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla
In 1889 Archduchess Gisela was living with her husband, Prince Leopold of Bavaria.
In 1889 Archduchess Marie Valerie was not yet married.
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Why would Marie Valerie's marital status influence whether her brother would send her a note??
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06-19-2014, 02:17 AM
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Heir Apparent
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Location: Heerlen, Netherlands
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I thought that he left several (8?) suicide notes, to all family members, with one notable exception: his father...?
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06-19-2014, 10:01 PM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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That's right Lee-Z, Rudolph left notes for everyone in his immediate family except his father the Emperor. 
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"Be who God intended you to be, and you will set the world on fire" St. Catherine of Siena
"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice". Martin Luther King Jr. 1929-1968
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06-19-2014, 10:09 PM
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Heir Apparent
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Join Date: Jan 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ana Von Cleves
Yes, please see my entry about 3 or 4 entries above this.
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I've seen. Thank you very much. 
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07-02-2014, 02:02 AM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ana Von Cleves
Mayerling 1968 with Omar Shariff and Catherin Deneuve & Ava Gardner not to be missed.
Fall of Eagles 1970's mini series which deals with the whole lead up to WWI devotes an episode to this. Available on Youtube...I just watched it a couple of months ago.
I believe both tout the double suicide theory. But I believe they both think the poor girl was given poisoned tea. In fact in Fall of Eagles, the girls corpse shows no signs of violence at all.
Anyway, do check out Fall of Eagles.
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Thank you, Ana, I've just watched the Mayerling episode and Episode #1 of this series, of which I had not heard before - it looks excellent.
I'll be watching the rest of the episodes, and I'm grateful you mentioned it.
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07-24-2014, 10:53 PM
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Heir Apparent
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07-24-2014, 11:47 PM
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Heir Apparent
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The Crown Prince Rudolph:
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08-25-2014, 09:18 PM
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Majesty
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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In A Dark History The Kings and Queens of Europe,
Brenda Ralph Lewis wrote:
Rudolph greatly enjoyed the theatre, social gatherings, salons, race meetings, concerts or riding in the Prater, the leisure complex of Vienna where the well-healed paraded for the purpose of seeing and being seen.
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07-31-2015, 03:52 PM
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Nobility
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08-01-2015, 05:41 AM
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Courtier
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I would not term it a romance, given her youth, the age difference, and the dreadful conclusion 
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08-04-2015, 02:36 AM
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Majesty
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I'm afraid poor Marie regarded it as a great love, and she was willing to accompany him into the great beyond. Rudolf just wanted and needed a companion in his death wish. Even then, he balked at killing himself. Apparently he spent several hours beside Vetsera's body, drinking, writing notes, trying to bring himself to perform that final act.
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08-04-2015, 03:00 AM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valerie Rose
I would not term it a romance, given her youth, the age difference, and the dreadful conclusion |
Nor would I. Rudolph had Maria Vetsera's own mother as his lover at one point.  Teenage Maria was besotted with Rudolph but I doubt the feeling was anywhere near mutual. She was simply a useful, fawning accomplice.
Far from being a romance, Mayerling was an historical tragedy featuring a mentally unstable debauched prince and his extremely immature teen girlfriend.
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"Be who God intended you to be, and you will set the world on fire" St. Catherine of Siena
"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice". Martin Luther King Jr. 1929-1968
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10-29-2015, 04:03 PM
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Newbie
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Join Date: Oct 2015
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I wonder if his problems started with the bad marriage of princess Stephanie or before. She was not pretty and not the wife he wanted. On official engagement photo she has short hair like a man. It must have been scandalous back then in 1881 to appear like that as a woman.
Obviously a weak character when he wasn't able to resist Franz Joseph's order to marry Stephanie. Franz Joseph himself married Elisabeth who was beautiful and he loved her. Rudolf could have always thrown this at him. Marie Vetsera was also beaufitul, perhaps even more than Elisabeth but sadly too late for him. Maybe Franz Joseph realized Elisabeth wasn't really fit to be a queen, she was too childish, they didn't even let her bring up her children since they were affraid what she would bring up. Maybe thats why he wanted his son to marry someone more similar to his mother in character.
With extra marital affairs, syphilis, liberal views different from his father, I doubt he would have ever become an emperor. Was there a way for his father to prevent the right of succession be passed at him? Maybe abdication before death in favor of other family member?
I doubt anybody would have murdered him like Zita belived. Definitely not French. The highest threat would be from inside from conservative circles but even they knew that Franz Joseph would not let him be an emperor.
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10-29-2015, 04:15 PM
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Serene Highness
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Rudolf and Stephanie were actually happy at the begin, but Rudolf was indeed too weak to cope with his life. That's not Stephanies fault!
Well Elisabeth was literally (yeah I know I view this from this time, but a child is a child) a child when she was married off to FJ and as much as I think she was too egocentric, you can't ignore that.
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06-20-2016, 11:49 PM
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Majesty
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12-17-2018, 08:54 PM
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Newbie
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what an interesting thread -- thank you :) !!
I have been fascinated by this story for years and years
I tend to think the official story seems sketchy but don't know what the actual "truth" might be, of course
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12-17-2018, 10:59 PM
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Majesty
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I've been fascinated by this saga for years as well. I read all I could about Rudolf, his Parents, romantic life, Vienna of the time, etc, obsessively at one stage, as I tend to do.
Considering that the cover-up began as soon as the Emperor learned that his son was dead and continued on for years, I don't think we are likely to learn anything new now. I do tend to think it was a straight forward murder-suicide though, largely because of Rudolf's depressive state at the time and the gullibility of Marie, his very young girlfriend.
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12-17-2018, 11:37 PM
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Newbie
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Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: HAMILTON, United States
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truly a fascinating story -- beauty, promise(s) unfulfilled, an unsolved mystery
a delicious feast . . . so sad for all of them
but, all these years later, such a marvelous speculation :) !!
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05-12-2019, 08:02 PM
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Majesty
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08-21-2019, 02:27 AM
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Serene Highness
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Join Date: May 2019
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Today in Royal History is the 161st birthday of Rudolf, Crown Prince of Austria son of Franz Joseph I of Austria and Duchess Elisabeth in Bavaria. He married Princess Stéphanie of Belgium and had one issue, Archduchess Elisabeth Marie of Austria. He was found dead age 30 together with her mistress Baroness Marie Vetsera as a result of an apparent joint suicide at Mayerling, a hunting lodge he bought three years prior and is situated in Lower Austria.
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