Titles of the Royal Family

[Tatiana Maria]

Read it a couple of times. You might be right; I guess it depends on how 'of equal dignity and style' is to be interpreted for at least the wife or husband of the Prince(ss) de Asturias. If we assume that all titles are inherently intertwined with the 'dignity'; the spouse would also hold those titles. If it only refers to 'Prince(ss) of Asturias' he/she wouldn't.

In the article of the Royal Decree pertaining to the heir(ess) and their spouse, it is "Prince or Princess of Asturias" which is designated as a "Dignidad", and it is "Royal Highness" which is designated as a "tratamiento".

The article then states that the spouse shares the Dignidad and tratamiento. In contrast, it does not state that the spouse shares "los demás titulos vinculados tradicionalmente al Sucesor de la Corona".

El heredero de la Corona tendrá desde su nacimiento o desde que se produzca el hecho que origine el llamamiento la Dignidad de Príncipe o Princesa de Asturias, así como los demás titulos vinculados tradicionalmente al Sucesor de la Corona y los honores que como tal le correspondan. Recibirá el tratamiento de Alteza Real. De igual Dignidad y tratamiento participara su consorte, recibiendo los honores que se establezcan en el ordenamiento jurídico.​

 

[Somebody]

In the article of the Royal Decree pertaining to the heir(ess) and their spouse, it is "Prince or Princess of Asturias" which is designated as a "Dignidad", and it is "Royal Highness" which is designated as a "tratamiento".

The article then states that the spouse shares the Dignidad and tratamiento. In contrast, it does not state that the spouse shares "los demás titulos vinculados tradicionalmente al Sucesor de la Corona".

El heredero de la Corona tendrá desde su nacimiento o desde que se produzca el hecho que origine el llamamiento la Dignidad de Príncipe o Princesa de Asturias, así como los demás titulos vinculados tradicionalmente al Sucesor de la Corona y los honores que como tal le correspondan. Recibirá el tratamiento de Alteza Real. De igual Dignidad y tratamiento participara su consorte, recibiendo los honores que se establezcan en el ordenamiento jurídico.​

I read it closely at least 5 times in Spanish before posting previously, so I understand where you are coming from. I am mainly trying to explore alternative options. The 'así como' could be interpreted as being an intrinsical part of the Dignidad of the Príncipe o Princesa de Asturias. Or, another way to look at it, is that the heir also has the other titles as 'dignity' (Leonor for example has the dignity of 'princess of Asturias and Girona'), so if their spouse participates in the same dignity, they automatically also have those other titles that are part of that dignity.

I do, however, wonder about the 'honors that are established in the juridical system; did they want more flexibility in regards to the honors the king/queen-consort and consort of the heir would receive; or are the honors that are traditionally bestowed upon the monarch and his/her heir also part of the same system? (but that makes less sense as different wording is used)

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I read it closely at least 5 times in Spanish before posting previously, so I understand where you are coming from. I am mainly trying to explore alternative options. The 'así como' could be interpreted as being an intrinsical part of the Dignidad of the Príncipe o Princesa de Asturias. Or, another way to look at it, is that the heir also has the other titles as 'dignity' (Leonor for example has the dignity of 'princess of Asturias and Girona'), so if their spouse participates in the same dignity, they automatically also have those other titles that are part of that dignity.

Thank you for clarifying; since I quoted from an English translation and did not explain my interpretation of the Spanish wording I was not sure if it was understandable.

I understand your alternative interpretation you propose now. Still, it seems to me that the interpretation that subsidiary titles are not to be shared with the spouse would be in the same spirit as the queen consort being "only" Queen whereas her husband is King "of Spain".

 

[lula]

I read it closely at least 5 times in Spanish before posting previously, so I understand where you are coming from. I am mainly trying to explore alternative options. The 'así como' could be interpreted as being an intrinsical part of the Dignidad of the Príncipe o Princesa de Asturias. Or, another way to look at it, is that the heir also has the other titles as 'dignity' (Leonor for example has the dignity of 'princess of Asturias and Girona'), so if their spouse participates in the same dignity, they automatically also have those other titles that are part of that dignity.

I do, however, wonder about the 'honors that are established in the juridical system; did they want more flexibility in regards to the honors the king/queen-consort and consort of the heir would receive; or are the honors that are traditionally bestowed upon the monarch and his/her heir also part of the same system? (but that makes less sense as different wording is used)

There are two Royal Decrees, "General Order of Precedence in the State" and "Military Honors". The first marks the positions in the State protocol, the second the military salutes (anthem, flag, cannon shots) that each member of the Royal Family receives at official events.

https://www.boe.es/buscar/doc.php?id=BOE-A-1983-21534
https://www.boe.es/buscar/act.php?id=BOE-A-2010-8188

 

[janelarn]

https://www.lainformacion.com/espan...do-sea-proclamado-rey_Xvgt0i3mOTXPwFHneF46j3/

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felipe_VI_de_España

The historical titles of the King of Spain are:
King of Spain.
King of Castile, Leon, Aragon, the Two Sicilies, Jerusalem, Navarra, Granada, Toledo, Valencia, Galicia, Mallorca, Seville, Sardinia, Cordoba, Corsica, Murcia , from Jaén, from the Algarves, from Algeciras, from Gibraltar, from the Canary Islands, from the East and West Indies and from the Islands and Tierra Firme del Mar Oceano (Referring to Spanish America and the Spanish Empire in Asia and Oceania. )
Archduke of Austria.
Duke of Burgundy and Brabant, Milan, Athens and Neopatria.
Marquis of Oristan.
Count of Habsburg, Flanders, Tyrol, Barcelona, ​​Roussillon, Cerdanya and Gocéano.
Lord of Vizcaya and Molina.

King of Hungary, Dalmatia and Croatia.
Duke of Limburg, Lotharingia, Luxembourg, Gelderland, Styria, Carniola, Carinthia and Württemberg.
Landgrave of Alsace.
Prince of Swabia.
Palatine Count of Burgundy.
Count of Artois, Hainaut, Namur, Gorizia, Ferrete and Kyburgo.
Margrave of the Holy Roman Empire and Burgau.
Lord of Salins, of Mechelen, of the Slovenian Brand, of Pordenone and of Tripoli.
He can also use the title of Catholic King.
As head of state, the Spanish Constitution confers on him the supreme command of the Armed Forces, holding the job of captain general, together with the high patronage of the Royal Academies. The king is a grand master of the military orders and other minor military orders or decorations of Spain. He is also the honorary president of the Organization of Ibero-American States.

 

[janelarn]

Remember that Felipe VI descends from Bermundo I of Asturias, in a direct line to this day and that he is related to all the European royal houses (practically) because the children of Juana I (children of Isabel and Fernando, the Catholic kings), Carlos I of Spain and V as emperor of the SIRG and his brother Fernando I also emperor of the SIRG, they married their own children between them and also, Fernando I had 15 children who were married both with the Spanish kings-princes-princess, as with the Germans and Portuguese or French. The origin of the different royal houses are the Catholic kings, Isabel I of Castile and Fernando II of Aragon.
Actually the surname Borbón, is a marriage pact between Spanish and French.
The first Bourbon, Henry IV, was the son of Queen Juana III of Navarre (nowadays, Eleanor will not give her offspring the surname of her husband, but rather "Bourbon", but at this time yes) and married to María de Medici that she was the granddaughter Ferdinand I emperor of the SIRG and great-granddaughter of Juana I "la loca" ; her son Luis XIII of France, second Bourbon, marries the Infanta of Spain and Portugal, Ana de Asutria daughter of Felipe III of Spain , and they had Louis XIV (The third Bourbon in France) who married the Spanish Infanta María Teresa; so the French Bourbons have almost more Spanish than French blood, since their wives were all either Spanish or descendants of the Catholic kings, Isabel and Fernando.
Hope it's understandable and not too messy. Thanks.

PD: another daughter of Juana I of Castile "La loca", Leonor, married Christian II of Denmark with whom she had among other children, Dorotea of Denmark (1520-1580), she married in 1534 with the Palatine Duke Federico II.
Cristina of Denmark (1521-1590) who married in 1534 with Count Francesco Sforza of Milan, and in 1541 with Count Francisco I of Lorraine.

 

[janelarn]

Sorry, it is not Leonor but Isabel who marries Christian II of Denmark. In fact, Isabella the daughter of the Danish princes herderos, is called this way by this queen and Spanish infanta

 

[Tatiana Maria]

It is a pity that Juana I of Spain could not leave her surname and therefore her dynasty, the Trastamara as it would have been logical.

While the name of Trastámara was retrospectively used by future historians, the royal family of Castile never adopted it as as their surname nor as the name of their dynasty.

I do agree that it was illogical for the descendants of Juana I to adopt her father-in-law's family name "of Austria". Neither she nor her husband ever ruled Austria, and their eldest son ceded his hereditary rights to Austria to his younger brother. It would have been a bit more logical if the Austrians had taken the surname "of Spain".

Actually the surname Borbón, is a marriage pact between Spanish and French.
The first Bourbon, Henry IV, was the son of Queen Juana III of Navarre

He was the first Bourbon king of France, but not the first Bourbon; the name of Bourbon traces back through his father to the tenth century.

https://www.lainformacion.com/espan...do-sea-proclamado-rey_Xvgt0i3mOTXPwFHneF46j3/

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felipe_VI_de_España

The historical titles of the King of Spain are:
King of Spain.
King of Castile, Leon, Aragon, the Two Sicilies, Jerusalem, Navarra, Granada, Toledo, Valencia, Galicia, Mallorca, Seville, Sardinia, Cordoba, Corsica, Murcia , from Jaén, from the Algarves, from Algeciras, from Gibraltar, from the Canary Islands, from the East and West Indies and from the Islands and Tierra Firme del Mar Oceano (Referring to Spanish America and the Spanish Empire in Asia and Oceania. )
Archduke of Austria.
Duke of Burgundy and Brabant, Milan, Athens and Neopatria.
Marquis of Oristan.
Count of Habsburg, Flanders, Tyrol, Barcelona, ​​Roussillon, Cerdanya and Gocéano.
Lord of Vizcaya and Molina.

King of Hungary, Dalmatia and Croatia.
Duke of Limburg, Lotharingia, Luxembourg, Gelderland, Styria, Carniola, Carinthia and Württemberg.
Landgrave of Alsace.
Prince of Swabia.
Palatine Count of Burgundy.
Count of Artois, Hainaut, Namur, Gorizia, Ferrete and Kyburgo.
Margrave of the Holy Roman Empire and Burgau.
Lord of Salins, of Mechelen, of the Slovenian Brand, of Pordenone and of Tripoli.
He can also use the title of Catholic King.
As head of state, the Spanish Constitution confers on him the supreme command of the Armed Forces, holding the job of captain general, together with the high patronage of the Royal Academies. The king is a grand master of the military orders and other minor military orders or decorations of Spain. He is also the honorary president of the Organization of Ibero-American States.

I am doubtful that the second list is correct. Neither article gives a citation for it and I have only seen the first list in use by Spanish monarchs, without "Marquis of Oristan".

 

[An Ard Ri]

He was the first Bourbon king of France, but not the first Bourbon; the name of Bourbon traces back through his father to the tenth century.

The Bourbons can trace their royal line back to the marriage of Robert, Comte de Clermont a younger son of Saint/King Louis IX of France who married Béatrice de Bourgogne ,Dame de Bourbon in 1272.

The actual title Sire or Lord of Bourbon goes further back.

 

[janelarn]

For Tatiana María

"Already the Catholic Monarchs, Isabel and Fernando, possessed the title of Marquis of Oristán and Gocíano. Due to the crossing of dynastic inheritances, King Felipe VI of Spain currently holds the title of Marquis of Oristán."

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oristán


"The first Bourbon" king "was from Navarre, not from France.
The Bourbons, like any family, can trace their origins very far, but as a secondary branch of the Capetian dynasty; until Antonio de Borbón marries Juana III of Navarra, there is no Bourbon king. Thus they arrive at France, the son of both Enrique IV "

"As for the Trastamara dynasty, Fernando and Isabel, both were very aware of their origin, but the kings then did not have a surname, they did not need it, but Isabel, specifically, knows perfectly well that her dynasty is Trastamara and so she writes it, just as she knows of his inheritance "Avis" or "Lancaster"




"As for "Austria or Habsburg", it is logical that Fernando continued using "Habsburg" since he was sent away from Spain and in Spain "Austria"( Carlos I-Felipe II) was used because it is a Spanishization of the surname, since it was impossible to remove the father's surname (Philip "the beautiful one" from Hasburg), although many would have liked it to be so.
The problem is that being Juana queen, she could not remove the surname of her husband from her children, in addition, for the same reason they inherited an empire in Europe.
It is very normal to have city names as surnames, so to differentiate themselves from the "German" cousins, they changed the Habsburg to "Austria".
Today there will no longer be changes of dynasties when Eleanor has children because the law allows to put the first surname of her mother in the first place
(Elizabeth II had to marry her cousin Bourbon hers, so as not to change the dynasty ... and for many other reasons that do not enter into the current topic)"

 

[An Ard Ri]

Interesting that Felipe II never referred to Jeanne d'Albret as a queen and always referred to Jeanne as 'Madame de Vendôme' (wife of the Duc de Vendôme).

This slight caused grave offence and Jeanne would complain to Catherine de Médicis who found it most amusing.

 

[janelarn]

Interesting that Felipe II never referred to Jeanne d'Albret as a queen and always referred to Jeanne as 'Madame de Vendôme' (wife of the Duc de Vendôme).

This slight caused grave offence and Jeanne would complain to Catherine de Médicis who found it most amusing.

I suppose that Felipe II, who was Felipe IV of Navarre (since Navarra joined Castile but not the kingdom, preserving its differentiated numerals), did not recognize Navarre as a kingdom of the French territories.
Navarra was divided between "Alta Navarra", the Spanish and "Baja Navarra", in French territory that in the end was annexed by France.

"In 1512 Ferdinand the Catholic with the excuse of supporting the Navarrese side of Beamontés in the Civil War of Navarre, he invaded said kingdom and took the title of king, uniting it to that of Aragon. In 1513 the Cortes of Navarre, which only Beamonteses attended They named Ferdinand the Catholic King. Later, the Cortes of Castile in Burgos decided to join the Kingdom of Castile in 1515, without any Navarrese attending the assembly. In this way, the Navarrese royal title became linked to the Castilian Crown. join the two crowns in Carlos I, the title remained linked to the Spanish royal titles "
"In 1548, Juana de Albret, queen of Navarre, married the Duke of Vendôme Antonio de Borbón, from whose marriage Henry III of Navarre, heir to this kingdom, was born. In 1589 he acceded to the throne of France as Henry IV of France , carrying on his head the crown of both kingdoms and initiating the Bourbon dynasty.

After accessing the House of Bourbon, who held the title of King of Navarre (like the Spanish kings), to the throne of France, the effective government as seneschal of the lands that had belonged to the House of Albret, Lower Navarre, Bearn, the Viscounty of Sola, the lands of Labort, the mayoralty of Bayonne (practically the entirety of what today constitutes the French department of the Pyrenees-Atlantiques), fell under the Agramont dynasty (Gramont, in French), a historical allied family of the Kings of Navarra, based in the Principality of Bidache.

In 1610 France and Lower Navarre were unified, although successive French kings continued to hold both titles separately. As the Spanish kings did not renounce their title of Kings of Navarre, it was the case that both of them called themselves Kings of Navarre.

In October 1620 - by means of an edict - Louis XIII annexed the kingdom of Navarre to the French Crown along with the territories of Béarn, Andorra and Donnezan."

(But what annexed France was "la Baja Navarra", since the Spanish kings continued to be titled as kings of Navarre and carried their historical titles, as princess of Viana, which corresponds to Leonor princess of Girona , Asturias and Viana)

 

[An Ard Ri]

I think its safe to say there was no love loss between Felipe II and Jeanne d'Albret

 

[Mbruno]

I suppose that Felipe II, who was Felipe IV of Navarre (since Navarra joined Castile but not the kingdom, preserving its differentiated numerals), did not recognize Navarre as a kingdom of the French territories.
Navarra was divided between "Alta Navarra", the Spanish and "Baja Navarra", in French territory that in the end was annexed by France.

"In 1512 Ferdinand the Catholic with the excuse of supporting the Navarrese side of Beamontés in the Civil War of Navarre, he invaded said kingdom and took the title of king, uniting it to that of Aragon. In 1513 the Cortes of Navarre, which only Beamonteses attended They named Ferdinand the Catholic King. Later, the Cortes of Castile in Burgos decided to join the Kingdom of Castile in 1515, without any Navarrese attending the assembly. In this way, the Navarrese royal title became linked to the Castilian Crown. join the two crowns in Carlos I, the title remained linked to the Spanish royal titles "
"In 1548, Juana de Albret, queen of Navarre, married the Duke of Vendôme Antonio de Borbón, from whose marriage Henry III of Navarre, heir to this kingdom, was born. In 1589 he acceded to the throne of France as Henry IV of France , carrying on his head the crown of both kingdoms and initiating the Bourbon dynasty.

After accessing the House of Bourbon, who held the title of King of Navarre (like the Spanish kings), to the throne of France, the effective government as seneschal of the lands that had belonged to the House of Albret, Lower Navarre, Bearn, the Viscounty of Sola, the lands of Labort, the mayoralty of Bayonne (practically the entirety of what today constitutes the French department of the Pyrenees-Atlantiques), fell under the Agramont dynasty (Gramont, in French), a historical allied family of the Kings of Navarra, based in the Principality of Bidache.

In 1610 France and Lower Navarre were unified, although successive French kings continued to hold both titles separately. As the Spanish kings did not renounce their title of Kings of Navarre, it was the case that both of them called themselves Kings of Navarre.

In October 1620 - by means of an edict - Louis XIII annexed the kingdom of Navarre to the French Crown along with the territories of Béarn, Andorra and Donnezan."

(But what annexed France was "la Baja Navarra", since the Spanish kings continued to be titled as kings of Navarre and carried their historical titles, as princess of Viana, which corresponds to Leonor princess of Girona , Asturias and Viana)

The Bourbon Kings of France continued to use the title of "King of France and Navarre" up to Charles X and their royal coat of arms included the Navarrese arms, which are also featured in the coat of arms of the current King of Spain and his heir.


I believe the Spanish legitimist pretender to the French throne, Luis Alfonso de Borbón y Martínez-Bordiú, also makes a claim to the title of King of Navarre. Can you confirm that?

 

[An Ard Ri]

Jeanne d'Albret and Antoine de Bourbon-Vendôme also held vast estates within the kingdom of France and was like a mini feudal state which she ruled with an iron rod.

Jeanne d'Albret was in her own right after her fathers death

Duchess of Albret (1555–1572)
Countess of Limoges (1555–1572)
Countess of Foix (1555–1572)
Countess of Armagnac (1555–1572)
Countess of Bigorre (1555–1572)
Countess of Périgord (1555–1572)
Princess of Andorra (1555–1572)

By marriage to the Duc de Vendôme

Duchess of Vendôme (1550–1562)
Duchess of Beaumont (1550–1562)
Countess of Marle (1548–1562)
Countess of La Fère (1548–1562)
Countess of Soissons (1550–1562)

 

[Tatiana Maria]

"Already the Catholic Monarchs, Isabel and Fernando, possessed the title of Marquis of Oristán and Gocíano. Due to the crossing of dynastic inheritances, King Felipe VI of Spain currently holds the title of Marquis of Oristán."

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oristán

Thank you, but there is no source given in the wiki article. Apparently, Don Fernando did use the title Marquis of Oristán in a document of 1481, but this does not appear to have been repeated by his successors.

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/royalty/royalstyle.htm#spain

It is not included in the recital of titles on the official website of the Royal House.

https://www.casareal.es/EN/MonarquiaHistoria/Paginas/historia-monarquia.aspx

"The first Bourbon" king "was from Navarre, not from France.
The Bourbons, like any family, can trace their origins very far, but as a secondary branch of the Capetian dynasty; until Antonio de Borbón marries Juana III of Navarra, there is no Bourbon king. Thus they arrive at France, the son of both Enrique IV "

As An Ard Ri mentioned, the Bourbons can trace their origins even further back. The noble family of Bourbon appears in the historical record centuries before Béatrix of Bourbon married the son of the French king in 1272.

"As for the Trastamara dynasty, Fernando and Isabel, both were very aware of their origin, but the kings then did not have a surname, they did not need it, but Isabel, specifically, knows perfectly well that her dynasty is Trastamara and so she writes it, just as she knows of his inheritance "Avis" or "Lancaster"

Could you give the source for Doña Isabel writing that the Count of Trastámara started a new Trastámara dynasty when he overthrew his half-brother? My understanding is that she deemed herself and her ancestors to be legitimate heirs, not usurpers.

"As for "Austria or Habsburg", it is logical that Fernando continued using "Habsburg" since he was sent away from Spain and in Spain "Austria"( Carlos I-Felipe II) was used because it is a Spanishization of the surname, since it was impossible to remove the father's surname (Philip "the beautiful one" from Hasburg), although many would have liked it to be so.

[...] It is very normal to have city names as surnames, so to differentiate themselves from the "German" cousins, they changed the Habsburg to "Austria".

The name of House of Austria was employed by both the Spanish and German branches of the house.

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/royalty/ps1713.htm

The problem is that being Juana queen, she could not remove the surname of her husband from her children, in addition, for the same reason they inherited an empire in Europe.

The passing of surnames to children was not regulated by Spanish law until the 19th century, and in earlier times there was no legal requirement that children had to bear their father's surname. And strictly speaking, the royals in Doña Juana's time did not use a surname, only the name of a house.

 

[An Ard Ri]

King Felipe/Philip II was also king of both England and Ireland by his marriage to Mary I from 1554-1558.

 

[janelarn]

The Bourbon Kings of France continued to use the title of "King of France and Navarre" up to Charles X and their royal coat of arms included the Navarrese arms, which are also featured in the coat of arms of the current King of Spain and his heir.


I believe the Spanish legitimist pretender to the French throne, Luis Alfonso de Borbón y Martínez-Bordiú, also makes a claim to the title of King of Navarre. Can you confirm that?

I'm sorry I can't help you, but I suppose it will be so ... for "French" Navarre. In fact, the title of inheritance of the kingdom of Navarre has only been used by the Spanish royal house, although I am not an expert in the French royal house because sometimes, when there are royal houses in exile, they pretend to get the moon and it does not matter.
The "prince-princess of Viana" is used for the heirs-heirs of the Spanish royal house
As a curiosity, some time ago, it was proposed to create a "principality of Jaén" for Princess Leonor, since there is a king of Jaén, but we do not know if one day the royal house will accept this or simply continue with the historical titles.
Anyway, I'll investigate it ahead of time and tell you what I find.
A clear example is the "Carlistas" since their branch is extinct, and it returned to Alfonso XIII but there is out there, "someone" who assumed without right, this "stupid claim", and uses, without validity in Spain, titles that do not correspond to them.
It is a pleasure for me.: flores:

 

[janelarn]

King Felipe/Philip II was also king of both England and Ireland by his marriage to Mary I from 1554-1558.

And King of Portugal, I do not know if we have commented on it.
Many Portuguese think that Felipe II is "Portuguese", but of course, each one thinks what he wants:jajaja:

For Tatiana María:

"Spain's royal lineage, which has its roots in the royal families of the ancient Hispanic Christian kingdoms of the High Middle Ages, was attached in each period of history to different family dynasties, each one with a specific family name used to designate the Royal Family. Hence, although convention accepts for classification and history writing purposes that since the unification of Spain, the country has been reigned by the Houses of Trastámara, Austria and Borbón, in actual fact there is a continuity of dynasty and lineage which genealogically speaking links the current holder of the Spanish Crown, H.M. King Felipe VI, with the general body of Spanish monarchs from the Modern and Contemporary Ages and with the most remote monarchs of the medieval kingdoms on the Iberian Peninsula."

https://www.casareal.es/EN/MonarquiaHistoria/Paginas/historia-monarquia.aspx

Fernando II is also Trastámara, whose connection is Juan I of Castilla, whose children inherit Aragon (Fernando de Antequera) and Castilla (Enrique III), so they are fully Trastámaras

https://www.thinglink.com/scene/609334899538657281?buttonSource=viewLimits

The clearly, secondary Capet line of the Bourbons

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Family_tree_of_French_monarchs_509–1870.svg

And of course the main title of the father was respected in the first place, since they hardly used surnames, that is why the children of the Catholic Monarchs were "Infantes de Aragón y Castilla" ... another thing is the kingdoms, since in Aragon a reigning queen was not so easily allowed, and in Castile there were no problems.

Another thing: in Spain, AUSTRIA is used for the Spanish line, by Carlos I even though they are Habsburgs, and Habsburgos, for the German line(his brother Fernando I) (especially to differentiate them). In fact, María Cristina and the German-Austrian line continue to use Habsburgs .... and we ourselves have a marriage of Alfonso XII with María Cristina de Habsburgo_Lorena, which was the last marriage with Habsburgs in Spain.
In fact, almost all the Spanish queens of the family, when they arrived in Spain, were already "From Austria" and not Habsburgs, but María Cristina was. They were already other times.
PS: I mean the sons of Carlos and Fernando because they both used the "Habsburg", especially to claim the paternal inheritance that was important in Europe, and an empire. Their children are already considered "Austrias" or "Habsburgs" and this is how we differentiate them in Spain.

Normally the titles of the crown are usually reduced, to name the main ones and leave an etc. The constitution says that the historical titles linked to the crown can be used and if Fernando used the one of Marquis of Oristán, the successors of him also. And Fernando's successor today is Felipe VI.
I am very sorry that I do not have time, because I have never doubted Spanish and complicated titles, but it is logical that by "inheritance", and being Felipe VI the current king, he has that title that no one has claimed.
When you have time, you may look for it, because it doesn't matter anymore. Greetings.

https://www.casareal.es/ES/Paginas/preguntas-frecuentes.aspx

According to article 1.1 of the aforementioned Royal Decree, “The holder of the Crown will be called King or Queen of Spain and may use the other titles that correspond to the Crown, as well as the other noble dignities that belong to the Royal House. She will receive the treatment of Majesty. "

https://www.lainformacion.com/espan...do-sea-proclamado-rey_Xvgt0i3mOTXPwFHneF46j3/

https://www.ordenrealestercios.com/reales-tercios-orden-reales-tercios-de-espana-la-corona/

https://rebelion.org/espana-edicto-real/

https://elordenmundial.com/mapas/titulos-rey-espana/

http://www.monarquiaespanola.es/pagina/titulos.htm



On each page about the royal titles of the King of Spain, they name the one of Marquis of Oristán.
Since it is a title inherited from Fernando "The Catholic", could you give me a reason why his heirs could not use it? Thanks

 

[janelarn]

Please, I would like to leave this in a separate post, to clarify some concepts, and I take the opportunity to explain why in Spain, the queen is not "queen consort" but queen, since it is established by law.

"Its article 1.2 establishes that "The consort of the King of Spain, while she is one or remains a widow, will receive the name of Queen and the treatment of Majesty, as well as the honors corresponding to her dignity that are established in the legal system."
https://www.casareal.es/ES/Paginas/preguntas-frecuentes.aspx
(In this legal context consort is the most cultured term and that is why he uses this word and not "wife". That confuses many people who do not understand a legal text)

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The situation the other European kingdoms is the same as in Spain: The legal title of the queen consort does not include the word Consort, but nonetheless there is a clear difference in constitutional function between a queen regnant and a queen consort.

For Tatiana María:

"Spain's royal lineage, which has its roots in the royal families of the ancient Hispanic Christian kingdoms of the High Middle Ages, was attached in each period of history to different family dynasties, each one with a specific family name used to designate the Royal Family. Hence, although convention accepts for classification and history writing purposes that since the unification of Spain, the country has been reigned by the Houses of Trastámara, Austria and Borbón, in actual fact there is a continuity of dynasty and lineage which genealogically speaking links the current holder of the Spanish Crown, H.M. King Felipe VI, with the general body of Spanish monarchs from the Modern and Contemporary Ages and with the most remote monarchs of the medieval kingdoms on the Iberian Peninsula."

https://www.casareal.es/EN/MonarquiaHistoria/Paginas/historia-monarquia.aspx

Fernando II is also Trastámara, whose connection is Juan I of Castilla, whose children inherit Aragon (Fernando de Antequera) and Castilla (Enrique III), so they are fully Trastámaras

https://www.thinglink.com/scene/609334899538657281?buttonSource=viewLimits

The clearly, secondary Capet line of the Bourbons

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Family_tree_of_French_monarchs_509–1870.svg

I have read the article on the official website of the Casa Real (and cited it in the comment to which you replied ). The article refers to (modern) conventions for the purposes of historical writing and classification, which cannot be extrapolated retrospectively to historical times.

"[...] although convention accepts for classification and history writing purposes that since the unification of Spain, the country has been reigned by the Houses of Trastámara, Austria and Borbón, in actual fact there is a continuity of dynasty and lineage [...]"​

So, whereas works on history written in modern times classify the Catholic Monarchs as Trastámara, they did not name themselves as Trastámara, or any other family name, during their own reigns. Likewise, the French kings who are classified in modern times as Capets did not use Capet as their family name during their own reigns.

And I am not disputing that modern Spanish writing uses the name Habsburgo, but during the reign of the "Habsburgos" they were better known as the house of Austria, and the recognized illegitimate sons of the kings of the Habsburg line employed the family name "of Austria".

Normally the titles of the crown are usually reduced, to name the main ones and leave an etc. The constitution says that the historical titles linked to the crown can be used and if Fernando used the one of Marquis of Oristán, the successors of him also. And Fernando's successor today is Felipe VI.
I am very sorry that I do not have time, because I have never doubted Spanish and complicated titles, but it is logical that by "inheritance", and being Felipe VI the current king, he has that title that no one has claimed.
When you have time, you may look for it, because it doesn't matter anymore. Greetings.

https://www.casareal.es/ES/Paginas/preguntas-frecuentes.aspx

According to article 1.1 of the aforementioned Royal Decree, “The holder of the Crown will be called King or Queen of Spain and may use the other titles that correspond to the Crown, as well as the other noble dignities that belong to the Royal House. She will receive the treatment of Majesty. "

I thought that the subject of discussion was the titles that past kings of Spain used historically, not titles which they could hypothetically assume in the present day.

https://www.lainformacion.com/espan...do-sea-proclamado-rey_Xvgt0i3mOTXPwFHneF46j3/

https://www.ordenrealestercios.com/reales-tercios-orden-reales-tercios-de-espana-la-corona/

https://rebelion.org/espana-edicto-real/

https://elordenmundial.com/mapas/titulos-rey-espana/

TITULOS DEL REY DE ESPAÑA - ARBOL DINÁSTICO MONARQUIA ESPAÑOLA

On each page about the royal titles of the King of Spain, they name the one of Marquis of Oristán.
Since it is a title inherited from Fernando "The Catholic", could you give me a reason why his heirs could not use it? Thanks

Thank you for the links - I see that many people believe the king is entitled to use the title (though one of them is a satirical article, so I suspect accuracy was not its author's priority...). However, none of them cite any documented usage of the title, and on that subject I prefer to consult quotations from historical documents, such as those found in the article to which I linked in the last post, which indicate that the long title used by historical kings in their documents did not include it.

If you were discussing hypothetical possibilities, then I agree there would probably be no objections if Felipe VI chose to begin using the title.

 

[Mbruno]

You know when I read Princess Irene, my mind immediately went to their cousin, Infanta Cristina's daughter - Irene.

Under current royal title rules, children of infantes or infantas have the consideration only of Grandees of Spain with the style of Excellency. Therefore, Infanta Cristina's daughter is not a princess.


Children of the Prince or Princess of Asturias, however, are infantes or infantas of Spain with the style of Royal Highness.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Children of the Prince or Princess of Asturias, however, are infantes or infantas of Spain with the style of Royal Highness.

As well as the children of the monarch who are styled Infante/Infanta de España except in the case of the heir who is ofcourse styled Prince or Princess of Asturias.

The Children of Infante/Infantas are styled 'His or Her Excellency Don/Doña X , grande de España'

 

[Tatiana Maria]

And I am not disputing that modern Spanish writing uses the name Habsburgo, but during the reign of the "Habsburgos" they were better known as the house of Austria, and the recognized illegitimate sons of the kings of the Habsburg line employed the family name "of Austria".

Further to my last response, Queen María Cristina too used "of Austria", rather than "of Habsburg", as her surname in Spain. See for instance the marriage act of her son.

Today there will no longer be changes of dynasties when Eleanor has children because the law allows to put the first surname of her mother in the first place
(Elizabeth II had to marry her cousin Bourbon hers, so as not to change the dynasty ... and for many other reasons that do not enter into the current topic)"

There was serious contemplation of a proposal to wed Queen Isabel II to a son of the King of the French, whose family name was Orléans. It would be interesting to learn which family names would have been used by her descendants in that event. The requirement to put the paternal surname first had not been introduced into the Civil Code. (Even after its introduction, special legislation could have exempted the monarch's children from the Civil Code, as was done in regards to the children of the Queens of the Netherlands.)

While I would expect the dynasty to keep its name if and when a child of Leonor ascends the throne, I don't think there has been any confirmation of that intention.

 

[Mbruno]

Further to my last response, Queen María Cristina too used "of Austria", rather than "of Habsburg", as her surname in Spain. See for instance the marriage act of her son.

When was the practice of adding the prefix "Serenísimo Señor / Serenísima Señora" before the dignity of Infante/ Infanta discontinued? I noticed that the prefix is used in the marriage act linked above, but is no longer used today. For example, Infanta Elena is cited now simply as S.A.R. la Infanta Doña Elena, Duquesa de Lugo, rather than S.A.R. la Serma. Sra. Infanta Da. Elena, Duquesa de Lugo.

There was serious contemplation of a proposal to wed Queen Isabel II to a son of the King of the French, whose family name was Orléans. It would be interesting to learn which family names would have been used by her descendants in that event. The requirement to put the paternal surname first had not been introduced into the Civil Code. (Even after its introduction, special legislation could have exempted the monarch's children from the Civil Code, as was done in regards to the children of the Queens of the Netherlands.)

It is impossible to tell for sure, but I assume her children in that case and, by extension the dynasty, would take the name Orléans following the Spanish custom. The dynasty kept the name Bourbon simply because the King Consort of Isabel II was also a Bourbon himself.

While I would expect the dynasty to keep its name if and when a child of Leonor ascends the throne, I don't think there has been any confirmation of that intention.

If Leonor marries a commoner as her father did, I don't see her husband's family name becoming the name of the dynasty. She might marry, however, another Bourbon, e.g. one of her distant cousins, in which case the problem is solved. If she marries another non-Bourbon royal, e.g. a Habsburg, a Wittelsbach, a Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, or an Orléans (technically, also Bourbons in the latter case, but using a different family name), I guess the dynasty's name may simply change to the patrilineal name, or they may use some hyphenated name as in Habsburg-Lorraine for example.

In any case, I don't think Spaniards are ideologically opposed to changing dynasty designations based on patrilineal naming nor do I think they see keeping the dynasty name unchanged as mandatory.

 

[AnaC]

In Spain children bear both parents surnames (Letizia Ortiz Rocasolano, Ortiz for her father, Rocasolano for her mother; Felipe de Borbón Grecia, Leonor de Borbón Ortiz...) and parents must choose whose surname goes first and becomes the surname the children will pass on to their own children some day. There is no doubt in my mind that no matter who Leonor marries her surname will go first

 

[Mbruno]

In Spain children bear both parents surnames (Letizia Ortiz Rocasolano, Ortiz for her father, Rocasolano for her mother; Felipe de Borbón Grecia, Leonor de Borbón Ortiz...) and parents must choose whose surname goes first and becomes the surname the children will pass on to their own children some day. There is no doubt in my mind that no matter who Leonor marries her surname will go first

I don't see a reason why "there should be no doubt". Infanta Elena's and Infanta Cristina's children use their fathers' surnames first and their mothers are Bourbons just like Leonor. In fact, using your father's name first is the default in Spain, meaning that Leonor's children using their mother's name first would be an exception.

As I see it, in traditionalist Spain, the only situation where I think there would be a call for an exception would be if Leonor married someone with an undistinguished name. If she marries another royal or even someone from the Spanish nobility, it is likely that their family names would be at least added to the dynasty's name in a hyphenated form, or would replace the previous name altogether.

 

[An Ard Ri]

There is no doubt in my mind that no matter who Leonor marries her surname will go first

Absolutely it will be the continuity of the Royal House of Borbón /Bourbon.

 

[AnaC]

I don't see a reason why "there should be no doubt". Infanta Elena's and Infanta Cristina's children use their fathers' surnames first and their mothers are Bourbons just like Leonor. In fact, using your father's name first is the default in Spain, meaning that Leonor's children using their mother's name first would be an exception.

As I see it, in traditionalist Spain, the only situation where I think there would be a call for an exception would be if Leonor married someone with an undistinguished name. If she marries another royal or even someone from the Spanish nobility, it is likely that their family names would be at least added to the dynasty's name in a hyphenated form, or would replace the previous name altogether.

There's no comparison between Leonor's (hypothetical) children and Elena's and Cristina's, who are dynastically irrelevant.
Choosing the mother's surname first is not an exception, years ago the father's surname was the default and parents had to petition if they wanted the mother's surname first. Now parents must choose the surname order, there's no default. The law contemplates the option of a hyphenated surname but under conditions that I don't think would be met in this case.


I wouldn't be surprised if Sofia's children bear their father's surname first but Leonor's, no matter the father, will be Borbón first.

 

[Stefan]

There's no comparison between Leonor's (hypothetical) children and Elena's and Cristina's, who are dynastically irrelevant.
Choosing the mother's surname first is not an exception, years ago the father's surname was the default and parents had to petition if they wanted the mother's surname first. Now parents must choose the surname order, there's no default. The law contemplates the option of a hyphenated surname but under conditions that I don't think would be met in this case.


I wouldn't be surprised if Sofia's children bear their father's surname first but Leonor's, no matter the father, will be Borbón first.

The mothers surname first was also done for the present duke of Alba and i beleive one of his brothers. And i agree the for Leonor's children the mother' forename will come first except if she marries another Bourbon but the it would twice Bourbon