Titles of the Royal Family

[lula]

Iñaki has been entitled to the use of the Excellence treatment since 2002, when he received the Grand Cross of the Royal Order of Sports Merit.

https://www.hola.com/casasreales/200...arin-grancruz/

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by lula

Iñaki has been entitled to the use of the Excellence treatment since 2002, when he received the Grand Cross of the Royal Order of Sports Merit.

https://www.hola.com/casasreales/200...arin-grancruz/

OK, that makes sense now. If he is a Grand Cross of a Spanish civil order, then he is entitled to the style of Excellency in his own right, and not by right of his wife.


Thanks, Lula !

[Prinsara]

Cute. I like what Infanta Sofia did with hers. She is becoming a young lady of character.

[Tatiana Maria]

Thank you to An Ard Ri and lula for the answers.

Originally Posted by Mbruno

It is true that Jaime de Marichalar and Iñaki Urdangarin were referred to as Duke of Lugo and Duke of Palma de Mallorca and were often cited by the prefix "Excelentísimo Señor" in Spain, even perhaps by the Royal Household itself.

However, as some legal scholars argued at the time, apparently to no avail, that was actually a misconception. When someone in Spain is given a Title of the Kingdom by royal decree, that title belongs to the grantee and can be transmitted hereditarily to his or her successors according to the terms of the concession and the Spanish nobiliary law currently in force. The use of the title also extends by courtesy to the legal spouse according to Spanish custom, which is why the husband of a Spanish duchess in her own right is addressed also as a duke.

The titles of nobility belonging to the Royal House, which are the object of the Art. 6 of the Royal Decree 1368/1987 are not, on the other hand, transferred to the grantee as an ordinary Title of the Kingdom. Instead, the King merely confers on the grantee, who must necessarily be a member of the King's family, a right to use the title, rather than the title itself. The concession of right is said in the RD to be "for life", but at the same time ex gratia, which is why the King can revoke it any time. The notion that it is the right to use the title which is being revoked, rather than the title itself, is made clear for example in the text of the RD 470/2015.

Another important aspect of Art. 6 is, furthermore, that the concession to members of the King's family of the right to use titles of nobility belonging to the Royal House is "personal", in addition to being "ex gratia" and "for life". That means, according to one interpretation, that the right of use of the title is strictly non-transferrable and does not extend, by courtesy, to the spouse, as it would be the case of an ordinary Title of the Kingdom.

Again, all that was ignored by the Spanish press (or maybe even the Royal Household) when they treated the dukedoms of Lugo and Palma as ordinary Spanish dukedoms to determine Jaime's and Iñaki's titulaire. Strictly speaking, however, if the King wanted to make sure that their sons-in-law had a title, the correct procedure would have been to bestow a hereditary peerage on each of them, which the King could have done, as the RD 1368/1987 says, under the powers granted to him by Art. 62(f) of the constitution. That would have required, however, another Royal Decree countersigned by the Prime Minister.

Could it have been the case that the Government was OK with the use for life of titles of nobility belonging to the Royal House by the Infantas Elena and Cristina, but did not agree to hereditary peerages for Jaime and Iñaki, which could then be transmitted to Felipe Froilán and Juan Valentin under the regular order of succession?

Very interesting! And yes, the Royal Household did refer to the Infantas' husbands as Excelentísimo Señor and Duke (citations in the following post).

On its face it does appear inconsistent with the stipulation in Article 6 that the usage of titles conferred in that manner is "personal". However, I think it could have been a consequence of the King's decision according to Article 3 of the Royal Decree 1368/1987, which states concerning the spouses of Infantas and Infantes:

Their spouses, whilst they continue being so or stay a widower or widow, shall be entitled to the form of address and honours The King, as a gracious decision, may grant them, pursuant to the powers vested upon Him by paragraph f) of Article 62 of the Constitution.

[Tatiana Maria]

Casa de Su Majestad el Rey de España

Su Majestad el Rey Don Juan Carlos
Su Majestad la Reina Doña Sofía
Su Alteza Real el Príncipe de Asturias
Su Alteza Real la Princesa de Asturias
Su Alteza Real la Infanta Doña Elena
Su Alteza Real la Infanta Doña Cristina
Excmo. Señor Don Jaime de Marichalar
Excmo. Señor Don Iñaki Urdangarin
Árbol genealógico de la Familia Real
Bandera


Página oficial del enlace matrimonial de Su Alteza Real el Príncipe de Asturias con Doña Letizia Ortiz Rocasolano

- SS.AA.RR. el Infante Don Carlos y Doña Ana de Francia
- S.A.R. la Infanta Doña Margarita y el Duque de Soria
- S.A.R. la Infanta Doña Cristina y el Duque de Palma
- S.A.R. la Infanta Doña Elena y el Duque de Lugo
- S.M. el Rey y S.A.R. la Infanta Doña Pilar
- S.M. la Reina y S.A.R. el Príncipe de Asturias


Jaime de Marichalar

Jaime de Marichalar y Saenz de Tejada is the fourth of the six children of the Count of Ripalda, Amalio de Marichalar y Bruguera, who died in 1979, and Concepcion Saenz de Tejada y Fernandez de Bobadilla.
[...]
"After a number of years working in the international financial markets sector, in January 1998 he was appointed Managing Director's Senior Advisor for Credit Suisse First Boston in Madrid where the Duke and Duchess of Lugo have lived since then. He is also President of the Winterthur Foundation which promotes cultural activities.


Iñaki Urdangarin Liebaert

"Iñaki Urdangarin Liebaert is the sixth child of Juan Maria Urdangarin Berriochoa and Claire Liebaert Courtain.
"He was born in Zumárraga, Guipúzcoa, on 15 January 1968 and soon after his birth his family moved to Barcelona where he lived until the age of 16. He then moved to Vitoria where he lived for two years then returned to Barcelona, where the Duke and Duchess of Palma de Mallorca live today."

[Duc_et_Pair]

I think it is just a way to "upgrade" Jaime de Marichalar and Iñaki Urdangarín.

Let us say, in the same league as the late Duke of Parma creating his son's fiancée Condesa de Molina, so that his son's marriage would be dynastic.

[An Ard Ri]

2 Infanta's did marry into the nobility.

Jaime de Marichalar was the son of a Count and is the younger brother to the current one.
Also the late Infanta Pilar's husband was also a noble the 2nd Viscount de la Torre. Their son Don Juan Filiberto Nicolás Gómez-Acebo is the current 3rd Viscount.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

2 Infanta's did marry into the nobility.

Jaime de Marichalar was the son of a Count and is the younger brother to the current one.
Also the late Infanta Pilar's husband was also a noble the 2nd Viscount de la Torre. Their son Don Juan Filiberto Nicolás Gómez-Acebo is the current 3rd Viscount.

Infanta Luisa Teresa also married into the Spanish nobility with her marriage in 1847 to the Duke of Sessa.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by lula

In Spain, the children of the infantes are "Grande de España", which is the highest title of the nobility, the rank below infante and above duke. With the title, they have the treatment of Most Excellent Sir/Madam.

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

For an example eventual children of Froilán de Marichalar will not be a Grande but a plain Mr/Mrs/Ms.

I am not sure whether Felipe de Marichalar's children will have a distinctive style or be plain Ms/Mr. The heirs of nonroyal Grandees also have the treatment of Most Excellent, and other legitimate children have the treatment of Most Illustrious. But I am not knowledgeable enough to say if there is a difference for the children of non-hereditary Grandees. Moreover, there is disagreement over whether "having the consideration" of Grandees implies that the children of Infantas and Infantes are properly Grandees or only have the same privileges as Grandees.

https://www.boe.es/buscar/doc.php?id=BOE-A-1987-25284

And although there are many legitimate grandchildren of Infantas and Infantes who are living, their situation is not necessarily comparable to the hypothetical future children of Felipe de Marichalar as most of them have parents who use other titles and styles. The only exceptions are the grandchildren of Infanta Pilar through her daughter and younger sons, I think.

For the wedding of the Prince and Princess of Asturias in 2004, the Royal Household referred to some, but not all, grandchildren and grandchildren-in-law of Infantas and Infantes as Excellencies:

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

Grandchildren of Infantes/Infantas:

Excmo. Señor Don Luis Alfonso de Borbón y Martínez-Bordiú [grandson of Infante Jaime]

Excmo. Señor Don Alvaro Jaime de Orleans-Borbón y Parodi Delfino [grandson of Infante Alfonso de Orleans]

Señor Don Juan de Bagration y Ulloa [grandson of Infanta Mercedes]

Spouses of the grandchildren of Infantes/Infantas:

Excma. Señora Doña Giovanna San Martino d'Aglie di San Germano [granddaughter-in-law of Infante Alfonso de Orleans]

Señora Doña Floriane del Río y Thorn [granddaughter-in-law of Infanta Mercedes]

Source: http://www.casareal.es/ES/Documents/...osCatedral.pdf

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

Infanta Luisa Teresa also married into the Spanish nobility with her marriage in 1847 to the Duke of Sessa.

Queen Isabella granted special permission in this case to her cousin.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

I am not sure whether Felipe de Marichalar's children will have a distinctive style or be plain Ms/Mr. The heirs of nonroyal Grandees also have the treatment of Most Excellent, and other legitimate children have the treatment of Most Illustrious. But I am not knowledgeable enough to say if there is a difference for the children of non-hereditary Grandees. Moreover, there is disagreement over whether "having the consideration" of Grandees implies that the children of Infantas and Infantes are properly Grandees or only have the same privileges as Grandees.

https://www.boe.es/buscar/doc.php?id=BOE-A-1987-25284

And although there are many legitimate grandchildren of Infantas and Infantes who are living, their situation is not necessarily comparable to the hypothetical future children of Felipe de Marichalar as most of them have parents who use other titles and styles. The only exceptions are the grandchildren of Infanta Pilar through her daughter and younger sons, I think.

For the wedding of the Prince and Princess of Asturias in 2004, the Royal Household referred to some, but not all, grandchildren and grandchildren-in-law of Infantas and Infantes as Excellencies:

The difference seems to be between grandchild of infante vs infanta. Are the examples that are Excmo all fully male line?

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Somebody

Are the examples that are Excmo all fully male line?

No, Infante Alfonso de Orleans was the son of Infanta María Eulalia (the youngest daughter of Queen Isabel II) and Infante Antonio (the son of Infanta María Luisa Fernanda, the younger daughter of King Fernando VII). He was a great-grandson in male line of Louis-Philippe, King of the French.

The courtesy styles for children and grandchildren of nonroyal Grandees do not distinguish between male and female lines as far as I can tell.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Stefan

We don't know hoe the wife of a potential younger son os a spanish King would be styled as there hasn't been a younger son in the last generations and there is no one in the next generation. Could well have been that she would be made Infanta de gracias.

Yes, she could be made an infanta de gracia or something else entirely, but, according to present general rules, she would fall into the same category as husbands of Infantas, i.e. her title would be up to the King to decide and not automatic in any sense. In any case, an infanta de gracia would only be an HH, not an HRH.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Stefan

We don't know hoe the wife of a potential younger son os a spanish King would be styled as there hasn't been a younger son in the last generations and there is no one in the next generation. Could well have been that she would be made Infanta de gracias.

The current Spanish model was established by the royal decree of November 12, 1987. In past generations, a husband or wife who met the dynastic requirements was an Infante/Infanta of Spain, whereas a wife or husband who was a commoner or "unequal" nobility, or did not settle in Spain, did not become an Infanta/Infante.

The 1987 decree stipulates in Article 3 that Infantas/Infantes by grace are to be created only in "exceptional circumstances". While it does not define "exceptional circumstances", I don't think merely being the wife of a younger son would qualify.

https://www.boe.es/buscar/doc.php?id=BOE-A-1987-25284

[Tatiana Maria]

Moving this post from the Danish forum:


In Spain under the Bourbon dynasty (until 1987), it was the custom to title both female-line grandchildren and male-line grandchildren of the Sovereign as HRH Infanta/Infante of Spain, provided that they were born from a marriage wherein

1) the spouse was of "equal" birth, and
2) the spouse married into the Spanish royal family and not the other way around.

If the spouse was of "unequal" rank, or the monarch's grandchildren were being brought up outside of Spain as members of a foreign royal family, then the children were not given royal titles, regardless of whether their parent was a Bourbon prince or a Bourbon princess.


Thus:

- the female-line grandchildren of King Alfonso XII by his daughters Princess María de las Mercedes and Infanta María Teresa,
- the female-line grandchildren of Queen Isabel II by her daughter Infanta María Eulalia,
- the female-line grandchildren of King Fernando VII by his daughter Infanta María Luisa Fernanda,
- and the female-line grandchildren of King Carlos IV by his daughter Infanta María Luisa,

were all HRH Infantas and Infantes of Spain.

The royal decrees creating them (as well as the royal decrees creating male-line grandchildren) Infantas and Infantes can be read here:

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/roy...es.htm#decrees


The custom was breached by King Juan Carlos I's Royal Decree of November 12, 1987, which ruled that going forward, both male-line and female-line grandchildren of the King or Queen of Spain (other than the children of the heir) will be "only" Excellencies.

https://www.boe.es/buscar/doc.php?id=BOE-A-1987-25284

Again, there is still no inequality between male-line and female-line grandchildren.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

Moving this post from the Danish forum:


In Spain under the Bourbon dynasty (until 1987), it was the custom to title both female-line grandchildren and male-line grandchildren of the Sovereign as HRH Infanta/Infante of Spain, provided that they were born from a marriage wherein

1) the spouse was of "equal" birth, and
2) the spouse married into the Spanish royal family and not the other way around.

If the spouse was of "unequal" rank, or the monarch's grandchildren were being brought up outside of Spain as members of a foreign royal family, then the children were not given royal titles, regardless of whether their parent was a Bourbon prince or a Bourbon princess.


Thus:

- the female-line grandchildren of King Alfonso XII by his daughters Princess María de las Mercedes and Infanta María Teresa,
- the female-line grandchildren of Queen Isabel II by her daughter Infanta María Eugenia,
- the female-line grandchildren of King Fernando VII by his daughter Infanta María Luisa Fernanda,
- and the female-line grandchildren of King Carlos IV by his daughter Infanta María Luisa,

were all HRH Infantas and Infantes of Spain.

The children of Infanta María Luisa (daughter of King Carlos IV) were not raised in Spain. In fact her son, despite having been born in Spain, later ruled as Duke of Parma and Duke of Lucca (and briefly, as a minor, as King of Etruria, under a regency by her mother). I believe he was not yet 4 years old when he moved to Italy.

I am also confused about your reference to the Infanta María Eugenia. Could it be perhaps the Infanta María Eulalia instead?

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

Moving this post from the Danish forum:


In Spain under the Bourbon dynasty (until 1987), it was the custom to title both female-line grandchildren and male-line grandchildren of the Sovereign as HRH Infanta/Infante of Spain, provided that they were born from a marriage wherein

1) the spouse was of "equal" birth, and
2) the spouse married into the Spanish royal family and not the other way around.

If the spouse was of "unequal" rank, or the monarch's grandchildren were being brought up outside of Spain as members of a foreign royal family, then the children were not given royal titles, regardless of whether their parent was a Bourbon prince or a Bourbon princess.


Thus:

- the female-line grandchildren of King Alfonso XII by his daughters Princess María de las Mercedes and Infanta María Teresa,
- the female-line grandchildren of Queen Isabel II by her daughter Infanta María Eulalia,
- the female-line grandchildren of King Fernando VII by his daughter Infanta María Luisa Fernanda,
- and the female-line grandchildren of King Carlos IV by his daughter Infanta María Luisa,

were all HRH Infantas and Infantes of Spain.

The royal decrees creating them (as well as the royal decrees creating male-line grandchildren) Infantas and Infantes can be read here:

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/roy...es.htm#decrees


The custom was breached by King Juan Carlos I's Royal Decree of November 12, 1987, which ruled that going forward, both male-line and female-line grandchildren of the King or Queen of Spain (other than the children of the heir) will be "only" Excellencies.

https://www.boe.es/buscar/doc.php?id=BOE-A-1987-25284

Again, there is still no inequality between male-line and female-line grandchildren.

The main inequality between male-line and female-line grandchildren is of course that male-line grandchildren are more likely to be children of the heir and therefore infante/infantas of Spain than female-line grandchildren as the eldest SON is the heir and not the eldest CHILD. If not, Felipe's daughters would have been excellencies and Elena's son and daughter would have been Infante/Infanta of Spain (with Elena is queen).

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

The children of Infanta María Luisa (daughter of King Carlos IV) were not raised in Spain.

In fact her son, despite having been born in Spain, later ruled as Duke of Parma and Duke of Lucca (and briefly, as a minor, as King of Etruria, under a regency by her mother). I believe he was not yet 4 years old when he moved to Italy.

Yes, all that is true. But at the time of his parents' marriage, when the king ordained that his son-in-law and the couple's potential children would be Infante/Infanta of Spain, the couple had settled in Spain and, as you said, their son was raised there during his earliest years.

He and his sister never lost the title of Infante/Infanta of Spain even after their parents relocated with them to Italy. See for example the declaration of of court mourning at the Spanish court on the occasion of his death in 1883, where he is referred to as ""S. A. R. el Infante de España D. Carlos Luis de Borbón, Duque reinante que fué de Parma".

https://boe.es/datos/pdfs/BOE//1883/...0175-00175.pdf


My post was directed at the popular but false claim that Spanish royal titles only descended in male line. As many people have cited various Infantas whose children did not carry Spanish royal titles as "evidence", the point was that these cases were not due to being female-line but because those children were born from unequal marriages, or marriages into foreign royal families, or marriages contracted after the 1987 royal decree limiting royal titles to the direct line (and that male-line descendants were subjected to these same requirements).

Originally Posted by Mbruno

I am also confused about your reference to the Infanta María Eugenia. Could it be perhaps the Infanta María Eulalia instead?

Yes, indeed, I meant to write Eulalia. Thank you for spotting it in time for me to make the correction.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Prinsara

They call him the Prince of Asturias. Was that retroactive?

Much like other dethroned ruling families of Europe, the Spanish Bourbons continued to lay claim to their former throne and titles even after they had been stripped from them. (However, like many other European pretenders from former kingdoms, Juan Carlos's father did eschew using the title of King and was instead known as Count of Barcelona - one of the subsidiary titles of the kings of Spain - once he succeeded his father Alfonso XIII as pretender to the Spanish throne.)

So, in the eyes of the Bourbon family, Juan Carlos was indeed Prince of Asturias from the moment of that his grandfather, the dethroned King Alfonso XIII, passed away. He was, however, not recognized as such by General Franco.

If you are asking whether the title was given retroactive legal recognition after his accession to the Spanish throne, the 1987 royal decree on the titles of the royal family could support that reading, although it is not specifically mentioned.

https://www.boe.es/buscar/doc.php?id=BOE-A-1987-25284

[CyrilVladisla]

Infante Sebastian of Spain (1811-1875) was a grandson of King Charles III of Spain and a grandson of Queen Maria I of Portugal.
He was granted the title of Infante of Portugal by alvara of December 9, 1811.
Please define by alvara.