State Visit from Estonia to Spain: July 9-11, 2007

[lula]

Originally Posted by biboquinhas

IMO it was because of the importance of each visit. It was a private dinner although one or two photographers were there othwerwise we could't see those three photos!

The Royal Houses have their own photographers, who also do photos in private meetings .. that were those who did these photos

[LadyFinn]

I think that the dress of Mrs. Ilves was too low cut for this occasion. Anyway, she is a quite beautiful woman, and relatively young (born 1968, while President Ilves is born 1953).

[Elsa M.]

Originally Posted by lula

The Royal Houses have their own photographers, who also do photos in private meetings .. that were those who did these photos

And there was even a "diplomatic incident", at the time, since the Chinese cabinet shouldn't have published the photos, due to the private character of the event.

[lula]

Estonia's President Toomas Hendrik Ilves and his wife Evelin assist to a classical concert with the Spanish royal couple Spain's King Juan Carlos I and Spain's Queen Sofia at El Pardo Palace

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[planetcher]

Originally Posted by donnaK

Never mind. As long as it isn't Letizia, nobody cares the protocol is broken or not .

Ain't that the truth?

[Juanita]

Originally Posted by rchainho

it's my impression or the queen sofia likes to brake the protocol and in some occasional, like this one, to explain the king and other guests what they have to do and likes to be ahead/front of the king?

I read somewhere that the Queen actually brakes the protocol but the King doesn't mind with that at all.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by planetcher

Ain't that the truth?

I still don't get why the press is jumping on her and doesn't bother with the Queen or the Infantas, leave alone the King.

I never understood the harsh reaction regarding her engagement presentation and still don't understand today. It brought so much stiffness into her appearance. I don't think spanish people want to see their CP first and foremost as a slave to protocol.

[*SofiaM*]

Ok, this is how I see it.

In Spain their is a lot of admiration for The King and Queen, not because they are royalty, but because people recognise their work and determination for their country. They have earned their respect in that way and so when something like a breach in protocol occurs, very few people bother.

Now Letizia came along and was 'fresh meat' so to speak for the spanish press. She hasn't yet had the chance to really sell herself to the spanish people. What I mean by this is that we don't see her as much as perhaps we'd like to and when we do see her, she's usually with Felipe.
So the way I see it, the press pick up on the slightest slip up by Letizia because they don't generally have much else to go on.

Remember that is my own view on this subject. I'm not intending to start the debate on whether Letizia should make more appearences etc. I just think that she is relatively new to the job compared with The Kings and therefore the press and other people will complain about issues such as the engagement interview or when she was a little unsure of where to stand.

Oh and I also read that The King doesn't mind when The Queen breaks protocol, infact he often makes adjustments to it himself!

[lula]

I always say the same. The arrival of Letizia arrived in a certain moment in a sector of the Spanish press. A little while in that all is good, the controversy and the lie are present every day… whenever they give money,publicity or hearing. She is an interesting personage, and became a fundamental element for this type of press… but not because she looked for it, but because she became an essential personage for them. This type of press has little rigor, and they do not know the operation the Royal House. Continuously they criticize blaming to Letizia of certain things, that are things that the Royal Family has done during years, but as before they didn´t interested to the press…

In addition, as Sofía says, she was the just the arrival, the easy objective, and against her they could make things that cannot do against others.

Weeks ago I listened to a commentary that explains the situation well. Mari Angeles Alcazar, is a journalist who assumes serious. She has been working for many years following the information of the Royal House, for a serious nwespaper, La Vanguardia. For few years she has been participating in a program of television… a weeks ago, she commentd out of which as Princess Letizia did not appear in public she did not have anything of which to speak… as if the rest of the family and their daily activities did not interest…

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by lula

I always say the same. The arrival of Letizia arrived in a certain moment in a sector of the Spanish press. A little while in that all is good, the controversy and the lie are present every day… whenever they give money,publicity or hearing. She is an interesting personage, and became a fundamental element for this type of press… but not because she looked for it, but because she became an essential personage for them. This type of press has little rigor, and they do not know the operation the Royal House. Continuously they criticize blaming to Letizia of certain things, that are things that the Royal Family has done during years, but as before they didn´t interested to the press…

In addition, as Sofía says, she was the just the arrival, the easy objective, and against her they could make things that cannot do against others.

Weeks ago I listened to a commentary that explains the situation well. Mari Angeles Alcazar, is a journalist who assumes serious. She has been working for many years following the information of the Royal House, for a serious nwespaper, La Vanguardia. For few years she has been participating in a program of television… a weeks ago, she commentd out of which as Princess Letizia did not appear in public she did not have anything of which to speak… as if the rest of the family and their daily activities did not interest…

Thank you both, makes me wonder how the press existed and what they wrote about before Letizias arrival if the royal family is so boring without her
Critizism in general is ok but not for silly issues like putting her hair behind her ears or speaking a lot with her hands - that's human behaviour! And if wearing spanish designerwear for her engagement was so important Zarzuela's protocol staff could have made her aware in advance. Other members of the SRF show the same behaviour or wear foreign designer and no one mentions. Letizia never did anything shocking after all Sad she had no chance but responding to it but it took away so much from her fresh character.

[*SofiaM*]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Critizism in general is ok but not for silly issues like putting her hair behind her ears or speaking a lot with her hands - that's human behaviour!

It's so very true! They always pick on these things and to me it's so stupid (not just with Letizia but with any royal).
Everybody has their traits, some things we do because we are nervous. For example Queen Sofia 'plays' with her rings when she is standing still or waiting for something. Do the press pick up on that and criticize her for it? No they don't.

I hope you know what I mean here but, they criticize Letizia because she is Letizia.

[Ferrara]

Does anyone ever call out these tabloid 'journalists' for the blatant errors that they make, the lies that they spread or the commentaries that they make that seem to be based on nothing but recycled gossip and someone's imagination? Call me old-fashioned in this age of uncontrolled celebrity gossip but I think it is ethically wrong for them to do what they do when it is someone's life they have maliciously slandered. Even if there isn't a proper governmental body or commission that oversees them, are there Spaniards who want to do something to stem the flow of this tide?

It is horribly ironic that Letizia, who was awarded the Lara Award for best journalist under 30, must now face this barrage of what can only be considered very poor 'journalism' or such a regular basis.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by ...sOfIa....

I hope you know what I mean here but, they criticize Letizia because she is Letizia.

Exactly. There a plenty of examples of royal habits or types of behaviour but usually the press thinks it's charming or praise the person for being a character. Time to move on, after all!

[donnaK]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Thank you both, makes me wonder how the press existed and what they wrote about before Letizias arrival if the royal family is so boring without her

There were more rumors about Elena's husband, Jaime M, back then since Elena was closer to the throne, also all the women linked to Felipe.

[chuchu]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

I still don't get why the press is jumping on her and doesn't bother with the Queen or the Infantas, leave alone the King.

I read that Princess Letizia is the first commoner in line to be queen in Spanish history. Is this one of the reasons she is more scrutinized and she is expected to be twice as good as others who were born royal? I think she is doing a great job and is asset to Spain.

[Duke of Marmalade]

I wonder if the press would have been as harsh on Eva if Felipe had married her because she's a foreigner and a no name in Spain.
I find it even more irritating that the press jumps on Letizia's personal charcteristics because she's a former colleague as if they wanted to teach her a lesson. They know exactly what they are doing to her and at some point I am sure Letizia couldn't believe what rubbish they were writing. I expected her to be more respected for the fact she's a journalist. Letizia is not the only royal who is critizised for her role or her styling, that's normal in fact, but aiming at personal features is a different story which I find at least unusual.

Sorry to cause a discussion that doesn't belong in this thread

[donnaK]

In general, Letizia is well respected by the press. She was asked to be the honor president of TV Academy and Journalists Association, two very powerful organizations in the Spanish press. There are few journalists (mainly Jaime P and Paloma B.) from the yellow press who like to comment on every move she makes. It started out only Jaime Penafiel, it turned out to be such a good business for him, so others followed. Letizia is from the serious press, she usually verified the news until the last minute, at the beginning she simply couldn't believe a veteran journalist like Penafiel was writing so much rubbishes, thus at the city hall, she jokingly told Penafiel to call Zarzuela to verify the rumors first before putting them in writing. Anyway, I think she is used to it right now. All she needs to do is to hold her head up. The reputation of Penafiel is pretty much to the ground these days.
Chuchu is right, it had a lot to do with Letizia being a commoner. If Felipe had married a royal, maybe she wouldn't have been so scrutinized. Sometimes I doubt if those journalists even know what are exactly those so called protocols out there.

[lula]

If the Princess of Asturias had been a "royal" they would have criticized her the same or different, for other reasons ... she would be foreign, of another religion, they would judge her studies, to her family... Always there would be a reason of critique, because and she is the Princess of Asturias, and she occupies a place of power that provokes envy and criticizes.

The Queen Sofia was a Princess, and it did not avoid it that they were finding reasons to criticize her.