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  #21  
Old 01-30-2018, 07:31 AM
Aristocracy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
She probably won't. Only the heir to the throne normally receives the Order of the Golden Fleece.

Sofia will probably get the Order of Carlos III as her mother did. Queen consorts BTW don't get the Golden Fleece either. The Spanish Court is still very conservative in certain matters.

I hope pretty soon, it's pretty annoying how many Infantes and Princes who weren't even related to the Spanish Royal Family were made Knights of the Order but the own daughters of the sovereign weren't.

Of course during the reign of Queen Isabella II, she revoked the orders from many Spanish and Portuguese Infantes and foreign princes who were against her rightful reign as Queen of Spain
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  #22  
Old 01-30-2018, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by principessa View Post
When will Sofia receive the order?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
She probably won't. Only the heir to the throne normally receives the Order of the Golden Fleece.
The Order of the Golden Fleece has been bestowed on nearly all male Infantes, but no female Infantas have received it, based on the listing given on this website:

Society of the Golden Fleece

Here is the decree bestowing the Golden Fleece on Infante José de Baviera y Borbón of Spain, a nephew of the King Alfonso XIII, in 1924.

http://boe.es/datos/pdfs/BOE//1924/198/A00376-00376.pdf
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  #23  
Old 01-30-2018, 08:01 AM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
The Order of the Golden Fleece has been bestowed on nearly all male Infantes, but no female Infantas have received it, based on the listing given on this website:

Society of the Golden Fleece

Here is the decree bestowing the Golden Fleece on Infante José de Baviera y Borbón of Spain, a nephew of the King Alfonso XIII, in 1924.

http://boe.es/datos/pdfs/BOE//1924/198/A00376-00376.pdf
I meant that only the heir to throne receives it now, but, since there has been no new male infante under King Juan Carlos or King Felipe VI, I guess we don't know what the future policy will be.
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  #24  
Old 01-30-2018, 09:11 AM
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I see what you mean now. I agree - the Spanish royal house might reserve the Golden Fleece for heirs to the throne in the future, much as it reserved succession to the HRH title for children of heirs to the throne in 1987.
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  #25  
Old 01-30-2018, 09:13 AM
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I believe all children, regardless of gender should be invested as knights of the Order excluding spouses (male or female)
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  #26  
Old 01-30-2018, 06:59 PM
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The last the order was bestowed was to Enrique V. Iglesias who was made a
Knight of the Order of the Golden Fleece in 2014.

There are now 18 living members with year order was bestowed.

King Felipe VI of Spain (1981)
King Juan Carlos I of Spain (1941)
King Constantine II of Greece (1964)
The King of Sweden (1983)
Grand Duke Jean of Luxembourg (1983)
The Emperor of Japan (1985)
Princess Beatrix of the Netherlands (1985)
The Queen of Denmark (1985)
Queen Elizabeth II (1989)
King Albert II of Belgium (1994)
The King of Norway (1995)
Tsar Simeon II of Bulgaria 2004
The Grand Duke of Luxembourg (2007)
Javier Solana (2010)
Víctor García de la Concha (2010)
Nicolas Sarkozy, (2011)
Enrique Valentín Iglesias García (2014)
The Princess of Asturias (2015)

Recent deceased members and year it was awarded

Don Adolfo , Duke of Suarez (2007)
The King Of Thailand (2006)
King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia (2007)
Don Carlos,Duke of Calabria (1964)
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  #27  
Old 01-19-2020, 03:07 PM
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With the passing of The Infanta Pilar of Spain there are now only 2 surviving Dames of the Royal Order of Queen Maria Luisa.

HRH The Infanta Margarita, Duchess of Hernani
H.M. Queen Sofia

At the start of King Felipe VI's reign there were 4 surviving dames but 2 have since passed away.

HRH The Infanta Alicia, Dowager Duchess of Calabria (died 2017)
HRH The Infanta Pilar, Duchess of Badajoz,dowager Viscountess de la Torre (Died 2020)
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  #28  
Old 07-01-2020, 09:32 AM
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Orders of the Spanish Royal Family:

The Order of the Toisón de Oro.
https://monarquiaespanhola.blogs.sap...n-de-oro-28779

Royal Order of Noble Ladies of Queen Maria Luisa.
https://monarquiaespanhola.blogs.sap...la-reina-34869

Royal Order of Carlos III.
https://monarquiaespanhola.blogs.sap...rlos-iii-28144

Order of Isabel La Católica.
https://monarquiaespanhola.blogs.sap...catolica-27694
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  #29  
Old 07-01-2020, 12:58 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blog Real View Post
Orders of the Spanish Royal Family:

The Order of the Toisón de Oro.
https://monarquiaespanhola.blogs.sap...n-de-oro-28779

Royal Order of Noble Ladies of Queen Maria Luisa.
https://monarquiaespanhola.blogs.sap...la-reina-34869

Royal Order of Carlos III.
https://monarquiaespanhola.blogs.sap...rlos-iii-28144

Order of Isabel La Católica.
https://monarquiaespanhola.blogs.sap...catolica-27694


Yes, those are the historic orders that were established before the 20th century and are still considered the highest and most prestigious Spanish honors. I would also add the Royal and Military Order of San Fernando to the list, although it is not a civil order, but a military one.

However, there is also a long list of other civil orders created in the 20th and 21st centuries which are classified as "royal orders" too and whose higher grades are awarded by Royal Decree (lower grades are normally awarded by ministerial order only). For example: the order of Civil Merit, the order of Alfonso X the Wise, the order of San Raimundo de Peñafort, the order of Agrarian Merit (Translation ?), etc.

There is a complete list in the page of "Protocolo y Ceremonial" in the Official State Gazette (B.O.E.). You can also find links in that page to all acts of Parliament and royal decrees regulating titles and membership of the Royal Family, order of precedence, awarding of and succession to Grandeeships of Spain and Titles of the Realm (legally recognized titles of nobility), as well as the statutes of all royal orders, except the Golden Fleece, which officially is still considered a dynastic order, I guess, even though it is awarded by Royal Decree countersigned by the the prime minister and published in the B.O.E. , as any other civil State order



https://boe.es/legislacion/codigos/c...2&nota=0&tab=2
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  #30  
Old 07-01-2020, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blog Real View Post
Orders of the Spanish Royal Family:


Royal Order of Noble Ladies of Queen Maria Luisa.
https://monarquiaespanhola.blogs.sap...la-reina-34869
I'm not sure I'd call this a current Order.

There are only 2 current Dames still alive ,it was never awarded during the reign of King Juan Carlos and so far not during the reign of the King Felipe VI.

Queen Sofia
The Infanta Margarita,Duchess of Soria y Hernani .
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  #31  
Old 07-01-2020, 02:40 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
I'm not sure I'd call this a current Order.

There are only 2 current Dames still alive ,it was never awarded during the reign of King Juan Carlos and so far not during the reign of the King Felipe VI.

Queen Sofia
The Infanta Margarita,Duchess of Soria y Hernani .

Technically it is a "dormant" order, i.e. it is no longer awarded, but it has not been officially abolished either. Queen Sofía wore the insignia of the Noble Dames of Queen Maria Luisa at her husband's proclamation ceremony in 1975. I don't know if she ever wore them again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalJewelish View Post
I believe all children, regardless of gender should be invested as knights of the Order (of the Golden Fleece) excluding spouses (male or female)

That is a tricky issue. Spanish constitutional law still discriminates against women in the sense that, unlike in other European kingdoms, male preference primogeniture is still observed in the succession to the Crown. In fact, that is rather inconsistent considering that, since 2006, succession to ordinary titles of nobility, regardless of their original Letters Patent (Real Carta), must follow equal primogeniture.



In any case, I don't see a future King awarding the Golden Fleece to his sons, but not to his daughters, and getting away with it without stirring major political controversy. Personally, I think they will follow JC's and Felipe's practice and limit it only to the heir. Under male preference primogeniture, assuming it is kept, that would mean daughters being automatically excluded when they have a brother, but, at least, if the King had more than one son, the younger sons wouldn't get it either so it wouldn't look stricly like gender discrimination,
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  #32  
Old 03-30-2021, 05:20 PM
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The Order of the Golden Fleece: a Burgundian, Spanish, or Habsburg order?

The order of the Golden Fleece was founded in Bruges by Philip the Good, Duke of Burgundy, in 1430. When the House of Valois-Burgundy became extinct in male line, the Grand Mastership of the order passed to the husband of Mary of Burgundy, Maximilian of Habsburg (later Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor), and subsequently was inherited successively by Maximilian's senior agnatic descendants in the House of Habsburg, who, from 1516 to 1700, also happened to be Kings of Spain. When the Crown of Spain passed to the Bourbons, King Philip V claimed the Grand Mastership of the Golden Fleece based on the fact that Charles II of Spain, in his will, had ceded to him all his dynastic rights, which presumably included the Grand Mastership of the order. However, the Holy Roman Emperor, Charles VI, who was then the most senior living agnatic descendant of Maximilian I, claimed that, under the order statutes, the Grand Mastership could not pass to a descendant in maternal line from Maximilian I until all agnatic lines had been extinct. Accordingly, from 1711 onwards, Charles VI started awarding the Austrian Golden Fleece independently of the Spanish order.

Regardless of the validity of Charles VI's claim, when he died without male issue and the Grand Mastership of the Austrian Golden Fleece passed to Francis, Duke of Lorraine, it appears to me that, even invoking the original statutes, the Grand Mastership should have fallen upon the most senior cognatic line descending from Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor, and, excluding the successors to the French throne who did not claim the Golden Fleece, that would be the Spanish Bourbon line descending from King Philip V (Philippe d'Anjou, great-grandson of Philip IV of Spain). In any case, the Bourbon dynastic claim to the order would be stronger at that point than the claim of the House of Habsburg-Lorraine.

A different point of view, however, is to argue that the Grand Mastership of the Order of the Golden Fleece is not tied to a particular dynasty or dynastic inheritance, but rather to the titular Duke of Burgundy. From that perspective, neither house had a strong claim since the Duchy of Burgundy properly was absorbed into the French Crown Lands in the 15th century and was not held since, either by the Kings of Spain or by the Austrian branch of the House of Habsburg. However, following the War of Spanish Succession, the former Burgundian territories in the Low Countries where the Order of the Golden Fleece was founded in 1430 (the previous "Spanish Netherlands") fell under Austrian rule and, as such, the Austrian Habsburgs came into possession of the treasure and the archives of the order, which were kept in Brussels and were later transferred to Vienna, where they are still kept today, following the French occupation of the Low Countries.

The Bourbon Kings of Spain continued to claim the title of Duke of Burgundy up to the proclamation of the Second Republic in 1931 and continued to award the Spanish Golden Fleece in the condition of Ducs de Bourgogne (with letters of appoinment to the order in French), even though, since the reign of Isabella II, the Spanish branch of the order had increasingly taken up the character of a Spanish national order. Following the restoration of the Spanish monarchy in 1975, King Juan Carlos and King Felipe VI dropped that pretense and, taking for example Princess Leonor's letter of appointment to the order, we can see that it is written in Spanish, rather than French, and issued in the name of Felipe VI, Rey de España, rather than the Duke of Burgundy. The Spanish Fleece is also currently awarded by royal decree published in the Official State Gazette (Boletín Oficial del Estado) and countersigned by the Spanish Prime Minister, underscoring its character as a national Spanish order. However, it still differs from the regular civil orders of Spain like the Order of Carlos III or the Order of Isabella the Catholic because the latter are awarded by proposal of a Spanish minister and awards must be pre-approved in a meeting of the Council of Ministers, whereas appointments to the Order of the Golden Fleece are made on personal nomination from the King of Spain only, consulting, however, the cabinet .

The Austrian branch of the order, on the other hand, lost the backing of a sovereign state authority after the Austro-Hungarian Empire fell in 1918 and is awarded today as a truly dynastic order associated with the titular head of the House of Habsburg-Lorraine. To underscore, however, the Habsburg-Lorraine claim to being the legitimate successors to the Burgundian order, traditionalists point out that the Austrian branch has remained faithful to the original statutes, limiting appointments of knights to male Catholic nobility or royalty, while the Spanish branch has admitted Protestant and even non-Christian knights, as well as women and "common" men, with characteristics that are reminiscent of the modern orders of merit.

The Spanish Fleece, however, remains to this day one of the most exclusive orders in Europe (more so even than the Order of the Garter). In fact, excluding the three members of the order who belong to the Spanish Royal Family (King Felipe VI as Grand Master, King Juan Carlos as former Grand Master, and the Princess of Asturias), there are only 14 living knights of the Spanish Golden Fleece, of whom only four are not foreign royals.
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