Spanish Royal Family Summer Holidays 2017 - 2022


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Hmm, that incident doesn't sound well. However, it does confirm Letizia's controlling manners and Leonor will again no that she cannot put a foot wrong (a very different message than for example Willem-Alexander and Máxima are giving their daughters); Leonor could easily have answered that she is looking forward to university studies. Hopefully she has some say in what she can study but I'm afraid it is already fully programmed for her by her parents (and wonder about Sofía - not sure that she gets that much more freedom to choose her own path within some limits).

The Spanish throne is the most precarious one in Europe; the Dutch one is secure, and yet Maxima talked over Amalia recently, anyway.

Letizia may or may not be "controlling", but she of all people knows what the media will do to an off-guard remark by an inexperienced teenager. The family doesn't exactly need to feed the electronic circus anything else for free at the moment. I would say she is protective.

Unless looks deceive, Leonor is not in a hurry to grow up. We'll hear from her one day soon, but her parents (not just her mother) have always kept her and Sofia very sheltered. There's no reason for that to change at a time of crisis.
 
I also think that Letizia is protective of her daughters. But the press likes to make her the villain.
Letizia did well to answer for her daughter. The family does not need more embarrassing moments.
 
The Spanish throne is the most precarious one in Europe; the Dutch one is secure, and yet Maxima talked over Amalia recently, anyway.

I was mostly thinking about Willem-Alexander explicitly stating that his daughters were allowed (and supposed) to make mistakes - and that even though security goes with them everywhere; security is NOT supposed to tell them (as parents). I don't see Letizia approving such an approach.

I also think that Letizia is protective of her daughters. But the press likes to make her the villain.
Letizia did well to answer for her daughter. The family does not need more embarrassing moments.
However, this response that basically said 'it doesn't matter at all what Leonor likes or not, she just has to comply' - was probably not the best answer either.
 
I do think that Letizia could've let Leonor answer the question - the Duke of Cambridge was given the opportunity to say that he wanted to be an astronaut even though he knew at the time he would be the future king. I understand and appreciate that Letizia is protective of her girls, but Leonor is only a young girl and I highly doubt she would answer with anything that would be even a little bit close to damaging the SRF's reputation.
 
I was mostly thinking about Willem-Alexander explicitly stating that his daughters were allowed (and supposed) to make mistakes - and that even though security goes with them everywhere; security is NOT supposed to tell them (as parents). I don't see Letizia approving such an approach.


However, this response that basically said 'it doesn't matter at all what Leonor likes or not, she just has to comply' - was probably not the best answer either.

Not to get too far off-topic, but why is it that Alexia was either smoking or hanging out with people who do — but there's no evidence of that because it would have been unseemly? Seems to contradict W-A's stated philosophy.

L&S are spotless children not because their parents tell them they must be, but because their situation won't let them make any mistakes. It's not the Netherlands; it's an unfair pressure cooker. I'm sure Letizia is infinitely aware of this.
 
Not to get too far off-topic, but why is it that Alexia was either smoking or hanging out with people who do — but there's no evidence of that because it would have been unseemly? Seems to contradict W-A's stated philosophy.
He didn't say he wanted it to be in the media :D - they guard their daughters freedom to make mistakes among other things by guarding their privacy. It's not that they don't want to be told but are fine with the whole world to know. They want them to be able to do so within their personal/private lives without it being 'news' - they are supposed to be as normal teenagers as they can possibly be in their position.

L&S are spotless children not because their parents tell them they must be, but because their situation won't let them make any mistakes. It's not the Netherlands; it's an unfair pressure cooker. I'm sure Letizia is infinitely aware of this.
I'd say is both; it's not 'the situation' that thought them to be perfect; it's their parents that require that of them - apparently because they are afraid that anything else than that would endanger the monarch (which goes to show how fragile they think it is - a monarchy should be able to handle an innocent comment or mistake by a child or teenager).
 
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Not to get too far off-topic, but why is it that Alexia was either smoking or hanging out with people who do — but there's no evidence of that because it would have been unseemly? Seems to contradict W-A's stated philosophy.

L&S are spotless children not because their parents tell them they must be, but because their situation won't let them make any mistakes. It's not the Netherlands; it's an unfair pressure cooker. I'm sure Letizia is infinitely aware of this.
I do agree with you. No one should compare Spain with the Netherlands. The political instability in Spain is something that endangers the Monarchy as well. People are not happy, and many provinces want independence. If the members of the Royal House make one single mistake, it will haunt them forever.


The thing that happened between Leonor, Letizia and Queen Sofia at Easter Mass was something serious even though they never screamed at each other, nor said hurtful words. Just a couple of gestures and it exploded all over the place! I always avoided my grandmother's touch when I was a child because I didn't like it (but I do love my grandmother), nobody pointed a finger at me, but look at what happened with them...


They are public figures, living in unstable Spain, where the media is merciless and the people are unhappy with their government. No wonder that Letizia and Felipe are protective of their girls. Of course, they have their own opinions, but one wrong word and it could be a great disaster.
 
:previous: Which must be an enormous and unhealthy pressure to live under; especially for (young) teenagers.
 
:previous: Which must be an enormous and unhealthy pressure to live under; especially for (young) teenagers.
Indeed. I always believed that Leonor and Sofia had constant pressure, and this pressure will increase as they get older. It's unfortunate, but it is the reality.
 
Indeed. I always believed that Leonor and Sofia had constant pressure, and this pressure will increase as they get older. It's unfortunate, but it is the reality.

Actually, I half-joke with myself that one or both of them are due for some crazy "rage against the system" rebellion time, and fairly soon. :D But maybe not, or maybe they will manage it discreetly. Is it symptomatic of something that they don't have their own general thread, or did I manage not to find it?

On this holiday, at least, they're still lovely children. It's political and social capital, not to be discounted lightly even when unfair.
 
They're always going to have a lot of pressure on them, especially Leonor.
I believe they are already used to this pressure, but of course, in private, they should sometimes revolt and ask why they cannot do certain things. If you look, we've never seen pictures of them with friends on the street, for example. So far even the press has protected them, but this will one day be over. I believe that now Felipe and Letizia are preparing them for the next stage of their lives and that implies dealing with the press and people's curiosity. They will have to avoid making serious mistakes, but as human beings they will also make their mistakes and this is normal.
Inevitably in a while they will have to have more freedom and Felipe and Letizia have to be prepared for it.
 
Hmm, that incident doesn't sound well. However, it does confirm Letizia's controlling manners and Leonor will again no that she cannot put a foot wrong (a very different message than for example Willem-Alexander and Máxima are giving their daughters); Leonor could easily have answered that she is looking forward to university studies. Hopefully she has some say in what she can study but I'm afraid it is already fully programmed for her by her parents (and wonder about Sofía - not sure that she gets that much more freedom to choose her own path within some limits).


Yes, it seems to me that the original intention of the question might have been precisely to ask what she planned to study or where she wanted to go to university.


I suppose a few things are planned for crown princes like having some form of military training and spending some time overseas (nowadays usually at an English-speaking university), but are plans so specific as to decide beforehand which universities they will attend or which degrees they will study?



Prince William, who is not an heir yet, but close to one, was given a certain degree of freedom to choose St Andrews for example and his major (starting with History of Art then switching to Geography). But the Brits do not appear to be so strict about the education of their princes as in the continent. A mix of law, foreign relations and perhaps economics courses seems to be mandatory for continental heirs and it will probably be the same for Leonor.
 
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"On a visit to Son Roca in Mallorca earlier this week, Princess Leonor was asked by another teenager what she would like to do when she is older. The heir to the throne hadn’t answered before her mother intervened to say 'what she has to do, not what she wants to do.'” Here's the article.

Interesting find! Yeah, being of royalty certainly has it's dark sides! This is all to often forgotten and only the privileges of such a position are considered.

Interesting too, but perhaps not so surprising, that the Queen in her younger years - so it was claimed - was quite critical of the institution "Monarchy". And now, as she finds herself in the position of Queen and future Queen-mom - she turned into a super-monarchist.


PS Congrats to your first post, ofkingsandqueens!
 
Yes, it seems to me that the original intention of the question might have been precisely to ask what she planned to study or where she wanted to go to university.


I suppose a few things are planned for crown princes like having some form of military training and spending some time overseas (nowadays usually at an English-speaking university), but are plans so specific as to decide beforehand which universities they will attend or which degrees they will study?



Prince William, who is not an heir yet, but close to one, was given a certain degree of freedom to choose St Andrews for example and his major (starting with History of Art then switching to Geography). But the Brits do not appear to be so strict about the education of their princes as in the continent. A mix of law, foreign relations and perhaps economics courses seems to be mandatory for continental heirs and it will probably be the same for Leonor.

And that makes sense. :flowers:

University is meant to be preparing you for your future, your career. For Leonor and the other heirs, their career is to be monarch eventually. While not absolute monarchs or politicians, they still have a role. Having an education with a foundation in international relations, languages, or even economics is a great foundation for future work. While a degree in art history may be good for if you have a patronage with an art gallery, in the long run it really does little to prepare for a royal role. Geography either.

There is freedom beyond what the degree is in. And I am sure flexibility. In what electives they do. Organizations and sports involved in. If they choose to study abroad for their masters like many royals have done including Felipe and Frederick.


Sofia will certainly have far more flexibility in what she studies and where. She likely will have some restraints still as a senior royal. But not the kind her sister faces in the future. And that's the benefit of being the spare.

Leonor was asked what she wanted to do in the future..... not what she wanted to do that summer. That's the kind of question you ask a teenager about their future career hopes. How was she meant to answer that? That's a question you'd expect to ask someone like Sofia.


I get the sense that there are certain questions the girls have been told not to answer the press. And to allow their parents to do. With all the junk going on with JC right now, they have to watch anything the press hears.


And is Felipe a lazy father or just doesn't care? Because it seems that everyone thinks Letizia is a slave driver and Felipe has no part.
 
And that makes sense. :flowers:

University is meant to be preparing you for your future, your career. For Leonor and the other heirs, their career is to be monarch eventually. While not absolute monarchs or politicians, they still have a role. Having an education with a foundation in international relations, languages, or even economics is a great foundation for future work. While a degree in art history may be good for if you have a patronage with an art gallery, in the long run it really does little to prepare for a royal role. Geography either.

There is freedom beyond what the degree is in. And I am sure flexibility. In what electives they do. Organizations and sports involved in. If they choose to study abroad for their masters like many royals have done including Felipe and Frederick.


Sofia will certainly have far more flexibility in what she studies and where. She likely will have some restraints still as a senior royal. But not the kind her sister faces in the future. And that's the benefit of being the spare.

Leonor was asked what she wanted to do in the future..... not what she wanted to do that summer. That's the kind of question you ask a teenager about their future career hopes. How was she meant to answer that? That's a question you'd expect to ask someone like Sofia.


I get the sense that there are certain questions the girls have been told not to answer the press. And to allow their parents to do. With all the junk going on with JC right now, they have to watch anything the press hears.


And is Felipe a lazy father or just doesn't care? Because it seems that everyone thinks Letizia is a slave driver and Felipe has no part.




Felipe, I assume, is a very busy king. He and Letizia are in practice the only adult working royals in Spain nowadays as Queen Sofia is increasingly inching towards retirement and JC is now in exile. And Spain is not exactly a small country like Denmark; it has a population of 47 million, which is bigger than Canada's population for example, not to mention the King of Spain's historic ties to the Latin American countries, which adds other international obligations too.


Furthermore, despite its impressive economic growth and modernization in the past decades (since it joined the EU in 1986), Spain is a country in turmoil with separatist movements in some of its major regions like Catalonia, an economic crisis, and a public opinion that is divided about the future of the monarchy (there is strong support for the monarchy in one section of the population, but also strong opposition thereto in another). We cannot and should not expect the Spanish Royal Family then to have the same carefree attitude of the Danish and Dutch RFs for example under those circumstances.


I think Felipe cares as much as Letizia about his daughters' and especially Leonor's upbringing. But maybe his necessary daily involvement with state affairs makes him interact less with the girls in public than Queen Letizia. That also conforms to the traditional Hispanic model of family where mothers are the primary caretakers. While Felipe and Letizia are a modern couple, I still think they cannot be separated from the broader culture of the country they live in.
 
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On Monday, Felipe and Letizia will visit Ibiza. Their schedule starts in the afternoon and they will carry two engagements. No info has been released if Leonor and Sofia will take part in the visit. I guess we'll have to see.


https://www.diariodeibiza.es/pitius...llegaran-ibiza-lunes-programados/1161954.html


For some reason, I think Leonor and Sofia were supposed to take part in the Menorca visit. But, because of Sofia's injury, their schedule was changed. So perhaps they won't show up in the Ibiza visit.
 
They're always going to have a lot of pressure on them, especially Leonor.
I believe they are already used to this pressure, but of course, in private, they should sometimes revolt and ask why they cannot do certain things. If you look, we've never seen pictures of them with friends on the street, for example. So far even the press has protected them, but this will one day be over. I believe that now Felipe and Letizia are preparing them for the next stage of their lives and that implies dealing with the press and people's curiosity. They will have to avoid making serious mistakes, but as human beings they will also make their mistakes and this is normal.
Inevitably in a while they will have to have more freedom and Felipe and Letizia have to be prepared for it.


Exactly, the time will come when Leonor is 18 and swears allegiance to the constitution, her mother or parents will stop answering questions for her and she has to face whatever is out there for her, that includes making mistakes, the question is how she deals with making mistakes and how relentless the media will dwell on such occasions.

I always thought that the monarch or heir gets a better pass than the consort or those who don't really have a state function, Felipe and Queen Sofia have certainly made mistakes and nobody cared about them, only the mistakes of Letizia were mentioned ad nauseam. So I guess Sofia jr. won't have the easier life after all.
 
I always thought that the monarch or heir gets a better pass than the consort or those who don't really have a state function, Felipe and Queen Sofia have certainly made mistakes and nobody cared about them, only the mistakes of Letizia were mentioned ad nauseam. So I guess Sofia jr. won't have the easier life after all.
Or perhaps the media and people target the members who are more popular (or known). Letizia is definately followed by many, and many hate her and love her to great extremes. That's why she is the scapegoat. And...She sells. Queen Sofia doesn't sell. So Letizia will always be the center of it all, unless Leonor or Sofia become more popular than her.
 
There is freedom beyond what the degree is in. And I am sure flexibility. In what electives they do. Organizations and sports involved in. If they choose to study abroad for their masters like many royals have done including Felipe and Frederick.


Leonor was asked what she wanted to do in the future..... not what she wanted to do that summer. That's the kind of question you ask a teenager about their future career hopes. How was she meant to answer that? That's a question you'd expect to ask someone like Sofia.


I get the sense that there are certain questions the girls have been told not to answer the press. And to allow their parents to do. With all the junk going on with JC right now, they have to watch anything the press hears..

I’ve heard various translations of the question the girl asked but some variation of “do you know what you want to do/study in the future?” should be fairly easy for a girl going on 15 to answer, even a girl in Leonor’s position, (actually, especially a girl in Leonor’s position). “Well, there are certain things I have to study as time goes on but right now I’m really interested in Math, how about you?” Or, “I’m not sure but my favourite subject in school this past year was Biology.. how about you?” Or, “I know I’d like to spend some time studying History, how about you?”

The media made it out like Letizia didn’t let Leonor answer but when I watched the clip it looked like Letizia saw that Leonor was just shaking her head and maybe said one word, realized the lack of an answer was about to get awkward, and therefore jumped in to take over. I actually get where Letizia was coming from here - every parent is familiar with the dilemma of “do I fix this for them or let them work it out?” and I think many parents in this situation would come down on the side of fixing it.

To me the first problem was that Leonor couldn’t answer the question. We’ve been assured how well educated and vigorously trained Leonor has been virtually from the time she was born but it’s all been behind closed doors. Some variation of this sort of polite, superficial conversation is going to make up a big portion of Leonor’s job in the future and she should be able to give simple polite answers to friendly questions.

The second problem was how Letizia responded to the girl. She could have lightly tapped Leonor on the shoulder and jokingly said, “a lot of things to think about over the next while, right?” And then asked the other girl what she thought she’d like to do. Instead she gave an answer that turned the episode into A Thing and also made it seem like she had no confidence in Leonor’s ability to give an answer. She may have saved Leonor a moment of awkwardness but she also likely embarrassed her and put a dent in her self confidence.

The third problem is, frankly, Felipe, who seems to see no problem with episodes like this one, along with the ongoing public poking, prodding, arm pulling, gesturing, hair fixing and more that Letizia does to Leonor in public. Does anyone here think for a minute he’d allow a son to be treated that way while he was acting in his official capacity as Prince of Asturias? No, he’d insist that even the most fragile and timid fourteen year old boy be treated with dignity and he’d make sure the boy knew how to act with composure in public, even if it meant letting him struggle on a couple of occasions like this one. But I guess his standard for Leonor is that she knows how to smile, her dress looks pretty and her hair is curled just right.
 
At 14 it’s worrisome if a heir or heiress is not more articulate and outgoing when answering very basic personal questions. Mama is not going to make speeches giving interviews and visit members of the public For her. Or save from awkward situations either. Being a Royal is hard, being a monarch is harder and the media/ public can be harsh And judgmental to Females in very public positions. It can and will take a spine of steel Esp. in a country like Spain.
 
At 14 it’s worrisome if a heir or heiress is not more articulate and outgoing when answering very basic personal questions. Mama is not going to make speeches giving interviews and visit members of the public For her. Or save from awkward situations either. Being a Royal is hard, being a monarch is harder and the media/ public can be harsh And judgmental to Females in very public positions. It can and will take a spine of steel Esp. in a country like Spain.


Have you seen Leonor speaking in Catalan by videoconference at the Princess of Girona event? She looked articulate enough to me and far more articulate than an average 14 year old TBH. And very confident too, not just like someone who is reading from a prepared speech. Please give the girl a break !
 
Leonor is shy, at least in public — and she seems to use her more confident sister as a support and shield. (See the handholding.). She wasn't expecting the question and perhaps very aware of the media and consequences, she simply got stressed about the "right" answer to give.

She speaks and reads perfectly well and gives off an air of being intelligent and serious. We know she and Sofia have plenty of interaction with their friends and peers we don't know about. I think when she gets a little older and does more in public, she'll be fine. (They're going to have to get her used to doing it all alone, though. That may be hard.)
 
I’ve heard various translations of the question the girl asked but some variation of “do you know what you want to do/study in the future?” should be fairly easy for a girl going on 15 to answer, even a girl in Leonor’s position, (actually, especially a girl in Leonor’s position). “Well, there are certain things I have to study as time goes on but right now I’m really interested in Math, how about you?” Or, “I’m not sure but my favourite subject in school this past year was Biology.. how about you?” Or, “I know I’d like to spend some time studying History, how about you?”

The media made it out like Letizia didn’t let Leonor answer but when I watched the clip it looked like Letizia saw that Leonor was just shaking her head and maybe said one word, realized the lack of an answer was about to get awkward, and therefore jumped in to take over. I actually get where Letizia was coming from here - every parent is familiar with the dilemma of “do I fix this for them or let them work it out?” and I think many parents in this situation would come down on the side of fixing it.
Do you have a link to the clip? I'd like to watch it as well.

To me the first problem was that Leonor couldn’t answer the question. We’ve been assured how well educated and vigorously trained Leonor has been virtually from the time she was born but it’s all been behind closed doors. Some variation of this sort of polite, superficial conversation is going to make up a big portion of Leonor’s job in the future and she should be able to give simple polite answers to friendly questions.
So far, her public engagements have been thoroughly rehearsed speeches with no interaction with the public, so, in that she does well (always looking for confirmation from her parents afterwards).

The second problem was how Letizia responded to the girl. She could have lightly tapped Leonor on the shoulder and jokingly said, “a lot of things to think about over the next while, right?” And then asked the other girl what she thought she’d like to do. Instead she gave an answer that turned the episode into A Thing and also made it seem like she had no confidence in Leonor’s ability to give an answer. She may have saved Leonor a moment of awkwardness but she also likely embarrassed her and put a dent in her self confidence.
I agree there were a multitude of other options available for Letizia if she felt she needed to step in.

The third problem is, frankly, Felipe, who seems to see no problem with episodes like this one, along with the ongoing public poking, prodding, arm pulling, gesturing, hair fixing and more that Letizia does to Leonor in public. Does anyone here think for a minute he’d allow a son to be treated that way while he was acting in his official capacity as Prince of Asturias? No, he’d insist that even the most fragile and timid fourteen year old boy be treated with dignity and he’d make sure the boy knew how to act with composure in public, even if it meant letting him struggle on a couple of occasions like this one. But I guess his standard for Leonor is that she knows how to smile, her dress looks pretty and her hair is curled just right.
Never thought about it that way but yes, I do think you are right that Felipe might have expected different behavior from his son than from his daughter even though they are in the same position as heirs to the throne. However, I wasn't really impressed by Felipe's oath on the constitution when he turned 18... So, it seems he might be preparing his daughter somewhat similar as he himself was prepared.
 
Never thought about it that way but yes, I do think you are right that Felipe might have expected different behavior from his son than from his daughter even though they are in the same position as heirs to the throne. However, I wasn't really impressed by Felipe's oath on the constitution when he turned 18... So, it seems he might be preparing his daughter somewhat similar as he himself was prepared.
I think Leonor's oath will be somewhat similar but at the same time it won't. Summing up, Leonor's first speech at Princess of Asturias Awards was different from Felipe's first speech. He lacked emotion, never looked properly to the audience, and it was boring. Leonor's speech was a great improvement from her father's speech. Likewise, I think Leonor's oath will be more "lively" and with more "emotion", at least, let's hope so.


I do think Leonor is better prepared than her father was when he was her age. He was more bored with it all. Felipe has improved a lot over the years, and so will Leonor. I believe she will be a great crown princess and eventually queen.
 
At 14 it’s worrisome if a heir or heiress is not more articulate and outgoing when answering very basic personal questions. Mama is not going to make speeches giving interviews and visit members of the public For her. Or save from awkward situations either. Being a Royal is hard, being a monarch is harder and the media/ public can be harsh And judgmental to Females in very public positions. It can and will take a spine of steel Esp. in a country like Spain.

She is 14. Any teenager is going to get caught off by a question once in a while. Especially when not doing an interview or press conference. Asking the future queen what she wants to do for a career in the future is the most bizarre question I have ever heard. Was probably simply taken off guard by the question which seems redundant. What are you going to do in the future? Be queen???

We have seen her do speeches and planned events. She has shown to be well spoken and articulated. There are grown adults who get nervous while at public events, fiddling with their hair and making weird responses. So I don't see how we can hold a 14 year to higher standards.


I’ve heard various translations of the question the girl asked but some variation of “do you know what you want to do/study in the future?” should be fairly easy for a girl going on 15 to answer, even a girl in Leonor’s position, (actually, especially a girl in Leonor’s position). “Well, there are certain things I have to study as time goes on but right now I’m really interested in Math, how about you?” Or, “I’m not sure but my favourite subject in school this past year was Biology.. how about you?” Or, “I know I’d like to spend some time studying History, how about you?”

Translated as what do you want to do.

The fact it can be interpreted other ways like you just did with 'what do you wish to study' is exactly the issue she faced. It was a very broad confusing question, and Leonor was caught off guard. I am sure if she had been asked something as simple as what is your favorite subject as you seem to interpret it as, she could have found some class to mention.
 
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For what it is worth, I believe that Letizia diligently prepares the Princess and Infanta prior to public appearances, and I think this has backfired unintentionally at times.

I was raised with and taught Cubano Spanish which is a little different, but when I read the articles I wondered if Letizia & Leonor were both expecting possible questions these next few weeks similar to "How would you be a better Queen than your Grandfather? or similar. If anything, I think they were confused by the question, then panicked, and then Letizia assumed the worst, so she jumped in to 'take the hit' so to speak. Rather than what will do you do when you are older- more "What are you going to do?" (and assumed it was meant in comparison to less savory coverage of the Royal family recently).

(Incidently, I thought part of the Easter 'tiff was also from overpreparation- I believe, having watched the Easter coverage for many years, that the Princess & Infanta are coached to not pose for group pictures inside the church, and to keep the greetings speedy and light while exiting. When Queen Sofia pulled Leonor in (for what looked like) a posed picture, I really do think Leonor was reacting out of instinct over her instructions (don't take pictures, keep it moving), more than any issue with her Grandmother. They all certainly seemed fine just seconds later outside posing for pictures. I come from a loud, loving Cuban family, and we have had very public blowups over far less that ended in screaming and yelling.)

Personally, I think the most important part of raising a future monarch is to instill them with the correct values and morals, along with a sense of humility and duty to their country. If Leonor's interview skills need growth, I think there is still an abundant amount of time and opportunity to develop them. I also believe it is important to expose future monarchs to public speaking as the grow up so they can learn and improve.
 
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