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  #461  
Old 08-14-2020, 05:44 PM
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Indeed. I always believed that Leonor and Sofia had constant pressure, and this pressure will increase as they get older. It's unfortunate, but it is the reality.
Actually, I half-joke with myself that one or both of them are due for some crazy "rage against the system" rebellion time, and fairly soon. But maybe not, or maybe they will manage it discreetly. Is it symptomatic of something that they don't have their own general thread, or did I manage not to find it?

On this holiday, at least, they're still lovely children. It's political and social capital, not to be discounted lightly even when unfair.
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  #462  
Old 08-14-2020, 06:08 PM
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They're always going to have a lot of pressure on them, especially Leonor.
I believe they are already used to this pressure, but of course, in private, they should sometimes revolt and ask why they cannot do certain things. If you look, we've never seen pictures of them with friends on the street, for example. So far even the press has protected them, but this will one day be over. I believe that now Felipe and Letizia are preparing them for the next stage of their lives and that implies dealing with the press and people's curiosity. They will have to avoid making serious mistakes, but as human beings they will also make their mistakes and this is normal.
Inevitably in a while they will have to have more freedom and Felipe and Letizia have to be prepared for it.
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  #463  
Old 08-14-2020, 06:49 PM
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Hmm, that incident doesn't sound well. However, it does confirm Letizia's controlling manners and Leonor will again no that she cannot put a foot wrong (a very different message than for example Willem-Alexander and Máxima are giving their daughters); Leonor could easily have answered that she is looking forward to university studies. Hopefully she has some say in what she can study but I'm afraid it is already fully programmed for her by her parents (and wonder about Sofía - not sure that she gets that much more freedom to choose her own path within some limits).

Yes, it seems to me that the original intention of the question might have been precisely to ask what she planned to study or where she wanted to go to university.


I suppose a few things are planned for crown princes like having some form of military training and spending some time overseas (nowadays usually at an English-speaking university), but are plans so specific as to decide beforehand which universities they will attend or which degrees they will study?



Prince William, who is not an heir yet, but close to one, was given a certain degree of freedom to choose St Andrews for example and his major (starting with History of Art then switching to Geography). But the Brits do not appear to be so strict about the education of their princes as in the continent. A mix of law, foreign relations and perhaps economics courses seems to be mandatory for continental heirs and it will probably be the same for Leonor.
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  #464  
Old 08-14-2020, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ofkingsandqueens View Post
"On a visit to Son Roca in Mallorca earlier this week, Princess Leonor was asked by another teenager what she would like to do when she is older. The heir to the throne hadn’t answered before her mother intervened to say 'what she has to do, not what she wants to do.'” Here's the article.
Interesting find! Yeah, being of royalty certainly has it's dark sides! This is all to often forgotten and only the privileges of such a position are considered.

Interesting too, but perhaps not so surprising, that the Queen in her younger years - so it was claimed - was quite critical of the institution "Monarchy". And now, as she finds herself in the position of Queen and future Queen-mom - she turned into a super-monarchist.


PS Congrats to your first post, ofkingsandqueens!
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  #465  
Old 08-14-2020, 09:45 PM
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Yes, it seems to me that the original intention of the question might have been precisely to ask what she planned to study or where she wanted to go to university.


I suppose a few things are planned for crown princes like having some form of military training and spending some time overseas (nowadays usually at an English-speaking university), but are plans so specific as to decide beforehand which universities they will attend or which degrees they will study?



Prince William, who is not an heir yet, but close to one, was given a certain degree of freedom to choose St Andrews for example and his major (starting with History of Art then switching to Geography). But the Brits do not appear to be so strict about the education of their princes as in the continent. A mix of law, foreign relations and perhaps economics courses seems to be mandatory for continental heirs and it will probably be the same for Leonor.
And that makes sense.

University is meant to be preparing you for your future, your career. For Leonor and the other heirs, their career is to be monarch eventually. While not absolute monarchs or politicians, they still have a role. Having an education with a foundation in international relations, languages, or even economics is a great foundation for future work. While a degree in art history may be good for if you have a patronage with an art gallery, in the long run it really does little to prepare for a royal role. Geography either.

There is freedom beyond what the degree is in. And I am sure flexibility. In what electives they do. Organizations and sports involved in. If they choose to study abroad for their masters like many royals have done including Felipe and Frederick.


Sofia will certainly have far more flexibility in what she studies and where. She likely will have some restraints still as a senior royal. But not the kind her sister faces in the future. And that's the benefit of being the spare.

Leonor was asked what she wanted to do in the future..... not what she wanted to do that summer. That's the kind of question you ask a teenager about their future career hopes. How was she meant to answer that? That's a question you'd expect to ask someone like Sofia.


I get the sense that there are certain questions the girls have been told not to answer the press. And to allow their parents to do. With all the junk going on with JC right now, they have to watch anything the press hears.


And is Felipe a lazy father or just doesn't care? Because it seems that everyone thinks Letizia is a slave driver and Felipe has no part.
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  #466  
Old 08-14-2020, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
And that makes sense.

University is meant to be preparing you for your future, your career. For Leonor and the other heirs, their career is to be monarch eventually. While not absolute monarchs or politicians, they still have a role. Having an education with a foundation in international relations, languages, or even economics is a great foundation for future work. While a degree in art history may be good for if you have a patronage with an art gallery, in the long run it really does little to prepare for a royal role. Geography either.

There is freedom beyond what the degree is in. And I am sure flexibility. In what electives they do. Organizations and sports involved in. If they choose to study abroad for their masters like many royals have done including Felipe and Frederick.


Sofia will certainly have far more flexibility in what she studies and where. She likely will have some restraints still as a senior royal. But not the kind her sister faces in the future. And that's the benefit of being the spare.

Leonor was asked what she wanted to do in the future..... not what she wanted to do that summer. That's the kind of question you ask a teenager about their future career hopes. How was she meant to answer that? That's a question you'd expect to ask someone like Sofia.


I get the sense that there are certain questions the girls have been told not to answer the press. And to allow their parents to do. With all the junk going on with JC right now, they have to watch anything the press hears.


And is Felipe a lazy father or just doesn't care? Because it seems that everyone thinks Letizia is a slave driver and Felipe has no part.



Felipe, I assume, is a very busy king. He and Letizia are in practice the only adult working royals in Spain nowadays as Queen Sofia is increasingly inching towards retirement and JC is now in exile. And Spain is not exactly a small country like Denmark; it has a population of 47 million, which is bigger than Canada's population for example, not to mention the King of Spain's historic ties to the Latin American countries, which adds other international obligations too.


Furthermore, despite its impressive economic growth and modernization in the past decades (since it joined the EU in 1986), Spain is a country in turmoil with separatist movements in some of its major regions like Catalonia, an economic crisis, and a public opinion that is divided about the future of the monarchy (there is strong support for the monarchy in one section of the population, but also strong opposition thereto in another). We cannot and should not expect the Spanish Royal Family then to have the same carefree attitude of the Danish and Dutch RFs for example under those circumstances.


I think Felipe cares as much as Letizia about his daughters' and especially Leonor's upbringing. But maybe his necessary daily involvement with state affairs makes him interact less with the girls in public than Queen Letizia. That also conforms to the traditional Hispanic model of family where mothers are the primary caretakers. While Felipe and Letizia are a modern couple, I still think they cannot be separated from the broader culture of the country they live in.
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  #467  
Old 08-15-2020, 07:12 AM
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On Monday, Felipe and Letizia will visit Ibiza. Their schedule starts in the afternoon and they will carry two engagements. No info has been released if Leonor and Sofia will take part in the visit. I guess we'll have to see.


https://www.diariodeibiza.es/pitiuse...s/1161954.html


For some reason, I think Leonor and Sofia were supposed to take part in the Menorca visit. But, because of Sofia's injury, their schedule was changed. So perhaps they won't show up in the Ibiza visit.
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  #468  
Old 08-15-2020, 12:48 PM
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They're always going to have a lot of pressure on them, especially Leonor.
I believe they are already used to this pressure, but of course, in private, they should sometimes revolt and ask why they cannot do certain things. If you look, we've never seen pictures of them with friends on the street, for example. So far even the press has protected them, but this will one day be over. I believe that now Felipe and Letizia are preparing them for the next stage of their lives and that implies dealing with the press and people's curiosity. They will have to avoid making serious mistakes, but as human beings they will also make their mistakes and this is normal.
Inevitably in a while they will have to have more freedom and Felipe and Letizia have to be prepared for it.

Exactly, the time will come when Leonor is 18 and swears allegiance to the constitution, her mother or parents will stop answering questions for her and she has to face whatever is out there for her, that includes making mistakes, the question is how she deals with making mistakes and how relentless the media will dwell on such occasions.

I always thought that the monarch or heir gets a better pass than the consort or those who don't really have a state function, Felipe and Queen Sofia have certainly made mistakes and nobody cared about them, only the mistakes of Letizia were mentioned ad nauseam. So I guess Sofia jr. won't have the easier life after all.
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  #469  
Old 08-15-2020, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I always thought that the monarch or heir gets a better pass than the consort or those who don't really have a state function, Felipe and Queen Sofia have certainly made mistakes and nobody cared about them, only the mistakes of Letizia were mentioned ad nauseam. So I guess Sofia jr. won't have the easier life after all.
Or perhaps the media and people target the members who are more popular (or known). Letizia is definately followed by many, and many hate her and love her to great extremes. That's why she is the scapegoat. And...She sells. Queen Sofia doesn't sell. So Letizia will always be the center of it all, unless Leonor or Sofia become more popular than her.
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  #470  
Old 08-16-2020, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by kathia_sophia View Post
On Monday, Felipe and Letizia will visit Ibiza. Their schedule starts in the afternoon and they will carry two engagements. No info has been released if Leonor and Sofia will take part in the visit. I guess we'll have to see.


https://www.diariodeibiza.es/pitiuse...s/1161954.html

Looking forward to the visit to Ibiza!
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  #471  
Old 08-17-2020, 11:47 AM
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King Felipe VI and Queen Letizia visit Ibiza:
https://www.hola.com/realeza/casa_es...-visita-ibiza/

https://www.semana.es/casas-reales/f...817-002237295/

https://www.diezminutos.es/familia-r...-visita-ibiza/

Videos of the visit to Ibiza:



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  #472  
Old 08-17-2020, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post

There is freedom beyond what the degree is in. And I am sure flexibility. In what electives they do. Organizations and sports involved in. If they choose to study abroad for their masters like many royals have done including Felipe and Frederick.


Leonor was asked what she wanted to do in the future..... not what she wanted to do that summer. That's the kind of question you ask a teenager about their future career hopes. How was she meant to answer that? That's a question you'd expect to ask someone like Sofia.


I get the sense that there are certain questions the girls have been told not to answer the press. And to allow their parents to do. With all the junk going on with JC right now, they have to watch anything the press hears..
I’ve heard various translations of the question the girl asked but some variation of “do you know what you want to do/study in the future?” should be fairly easy for a girl going on 15 to answer, even a girl in Leonor’s position, (actually, especially a girl in Leonor’s position). “Well, there are certain things I have to study as time goes on but right now I’m really interested in Math, how about you?” Or, “I’m not sure but my favourite subject in school this past year was Biology.. how about you?” Or, “I know I’d like to spend some time studying History, how about you?”

The media made it out like Letizia didn’t let Leonor answer but when I watched the clip it looked like Letizia saw that Leonor was just shaking her head and maybe said one word, realized the lack of an answer was about to get awkward, and therefore jumped in to take over. I actually get where Letizia was coming from here - every parent is familiar with the dilemma of “do I fix this for them or let them work it out?” and I think many parents in this situation would come down on the side of fixing it.

To me the first problem was that Leonor couldn’t answer the question. We’ve been assured how well educated and vigorously trained Leonor has been virtually from the time she was born but it’s all been behind closed doors. Some variation of this sort of polite, superficial conversation is going to make up a big portion of Leonor’s job in the future and she should be able to give simple polite answers to friendly questions.

The second problem was how Letizia responded to the girl. She could have lightly tapped Leonor on the shoulder and jokingly said, “a lot of things to think about over the next while, right?” And then asked the other girl what she thought she’d like to do. Instead she gave an answer that turned the episode into A Thing and also made it seem like she had no confidence in Leonor’s ability to give an answer. She may have saved Leonor a moment of awkwardness but she also likely embarrassed her and put a dent in her self confidence.

The third problem is, frankly, Felipe, who seems to see no problem with episodes like this one, along with the ongoing public poking, prodding, arm pulling, gesturing, hair fixing and more that Letizia does to Leonor in public. Does anyone here think for a minute he’d allow a son to be treated that way while he was acting in his official capacity as Prince of Asturias? No, he’d insist that even the most fragile and timid fourteen year old boy be treated with dignity and he’d make sure the boy knew how to act with composure in public, even if it meant letting him struggle on a couple of occasions like this one. But I guess his standard for Leonor is that she knows how to smile, her dress looks pretty and her hair is curled just right.
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  #473  
Old 08-17-2020, 02:31 PM
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King Felipe and Queen Letizia visiting Ibiza today, August 17:



** josepgegundez.photoshelter gallery **


** casareal photos 1 ** casareal photos 2 ** casareal **


** gettyimages gallery: ESP: Spanish Royals Visit Ibiza ** rex gallery ** gtres news gallery **
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  #474  
Old 08-17-2020, 02:35 PM
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At 14 it’s worrisome if a heir or heiress is not more articulate and outgoing when answering very basic personal questions. Mama is not going to make speeches giving interviews and visit members of the public For her. Or save from awkward situations either. Being a Royal is hard, being a monarch is harder and the media/ public can be harsh And judgmental to Females in very public positions. It can and will take a spine of steel Esp. in a country like Spain.
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  #475  
Old 08-17-2020, 02:47 PM
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At 14 it’s worrisome if a heir or heiress is not more articulate and outgoing when answering very basic personal questions. Mama is not going to make speeches giving interviews and visit members of the public For her. Or save from awkward situations either. Being a Royal is hard, being a monarch is harder and the media/ public can be harsh And judgmental to Females in very public positions. It can and will take a spine of steel Esp. in a country like Spain.

Have you seen Leonor speaking in Catalan by videoconference at the Princess of Girona event? She looked articulate enough to me and far more articulate than an average 14 year old TBH. And very confident too, not just like someone who is reading from a prepared speech. Please give the girl a break !
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  #476  
Old 08-17-2020, 02:54 PM
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Leonor is shy, at least in public — and she seems to use her more confident sister as a support and shield. (See the handholding.). She wasn't expecting the question and perhaps very aware of the media and consequences, she simply got stressed about the "right" answer to give.

She speaks and reads perfectly well and gives off an air of being intelligent and serious. We know she and Sofia have plenty of interaction with their friends and peers we don't know about. I think when she gets a little older and does more in public, she'll be fine. (They're going to have to get her used to doing it all alone, though. That may be hard.)
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Old 08-17-2020, 04:45 PM
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The visit by the king and queen to Ibiza earlier today.

https://www.ppe-agency.com/show.php?...8-2020%20Ibiza
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  #478  
Old 08-17-2020, 05:28 PM
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I’ve heard various translations of the question the girl asked but some variation of “do you know what you want to do/study in the future?” should be fairly easy for a girl going on 15 to answer, even a girl in Leonor’s position, (actually, especially a girl in Leonor’s position). “Well, there are certain things I have to study as time goes on but right now I’m really interested in Math, how about you?” Or, “I’m not sure but my favourite subject in school this past year was Biology.. how about you?” Or, “I know I’d like to spend some time studying History, how about you?”

The media made it out like Letizia didn’t let Leonor answer but when I watched the clip it looked like Letizia saw that Leonor was just shaking her head and maybe said one word, realized the lack of an answer was about to get awkward, and therefore jumped in to take over. I actually get where Letizia was coming from here - every parent is familiar with the dilemma of “do I fix this for them or let them work it out?” and I think many parents in this situation would come down on the side of fixing it.
Do you have a link to the clip? I'd like to watch it as well.

Quote:
To me the first problem was that Leonor couldn’t answer the question. We’ve been assured how well educated and vigorously trained Leonor has been virtually from the time she was born but it’s all been behind closed doors. Some variation of this sort of polite, superficial conversation is going to make up a big portion of Leonor’s job in the future and she should be able to give simple polite answers to friendly questions.
So far, her public engagements have been thoroughly rehearsed speeches with no interaction with the public, so, in that she does well (always looking for confirmation from her parents afterwards).

Quote:
The second problem was how Letizia responded to the girl. She could have lightly tapped Leonor on the shoulder and jokingly said, “a lot of things to think about over the next while, right?” And then asked the other girl what she thought she’d like to do. Instead she gave an answer that turned the episode into A Thing and also made it seem like she had no confidence in Leonor’s ability to give an answer. She may have saved Leonor a moment of awkwardness but she also likely embarrassed her and put a dent in her self confidence.
I agree there were a multitude of other options available for Letizia if she felt she needed to step in.

Quote:
The third problem is, frankly, Felipe, who seems to see no problem with episodes like this one, along with the ongoing public poking, prodding, arm pulling, gesturing, hair fixing and more that Letizia does to Leonor in public. Does anyone here think for a minute he’d allow a son to be treated that way while he was acting in his official capacity as Prince of Asturias? No, he’d insist that even the most fragile and timid fourteen year old boy be treated with dignity and he’d make sure the boy knew how to act with composure in public, even if it meant letting him struggle on a couple of occasions like this one. But I guess his standard for Leonor is that she knows how to smile, her dress looks pretty and her hair is curled just right.
Never thought about it that way but yes, I do think you are right that Felipe might have expected different behavior from his son than from his daughter even though they are in the same position as heirs to the throne. However, I wasn't really impressed by Felipe's oath on the constitution when he turned 18... So, it seems he might be preparing his daughter somewhat similar as he himself was prepared.
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  #479  
Old 08-17-2020, 07:32 PM
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Never thought about it that way but yes, I do think you are right that Felipe might have expected different behavior from his son than from his daughter even though they are in the same position as heirs to the throne. However, I wasn't really impressed by Felipe's oath on the constitution when he turned 18... So, it seems he might be preparing his daughter somewhat similar as he himself was prepared.
I think Leonor's oath will be somewhat similar but at the same time it won't. Summing up, Leonor's first speech at Princess of Asturias Awards was different from Felipe's first speech. He lacked emotion, never looked properly to the audience, and it was boring. Leonor's speech was a great improvement from her father's speech. Likewise, I think Leonor's oath will be more "lively" and with more "emotion", at least, let's hope so.


I do think Leonor is better prepared than her father was when he was her age. He was more bored with it all. Felipe has improved a lot over the years, and so will Leonor. I believe she will be a great crown princess and eventually queen.
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Old 08-17-2020, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by amaryllus View Post
At 14 it’s worrisome if a heir or heiress is not more articulate and outgoing when answering very basic personal questions. Mama is not going to make speeches giving interviews and visit members of the public For her. Or save from awkward situations either. Being a Royal is hard, being a monarch is harder and the media/ public can be harsh And judgmental to Females in very public positions. It can and will take a spine of steel Esp. in a country like Spain.
She is 14. Any teenager is going to get caught off by a question once in a while. Especially when not doing an interview or press conference. Asking the future queen what she wants to do for a career in the future is the most bizarre question I have ever heard. Was probably simply taken off guard by the question which seems redundant. What are you going to do in the future? Be queen???

We have seen her do speeches and planned events. She has shown to be well spoken and articulated. There are grown adults who get nervous while at public events, fiddling with their hair and making weird responses. So I don't see how we can hold a 14 year to higher standards.


Quote:
I’ve heard various translations of the question the girl asked but some variation of “do you know what you want to do/study in the future?” should be fairly easy for a girl going on 15 to answer, even a girl in Leonor’s position, (actually, especially a girl in Leonor’s position). “Well, there are certain things I have to study as time goes on but right now I’m really interested in Math, how about you?” Or, “I’m not sure but my favourite subject in school this past year was Biology.. how about you?” Or, “I know I’d like to spend some time studying History, how about you?”
Translated as what do you want to do.

The fact it can be interpreted other ways like you just did with 'what do you wish to study' is exactly the issue she faced. It was a very broad confusing question, and Leonor was caught off guard. I am sure if she had been asked something as simple as what is your favorite subject as you seem to interpret it as, she could have found some class to mention.
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