Relationships between Members of the Spanish Royal Family

[Duc_et_Pair]

That article 'says it all'..

The supine and compliant ways of the emeritus Queen, in no way reflect a 'modern woman', nor serve the requirements of a Monarch's wife in the 21st century...

The 21st C should not have any person who is head of state by deduction of a womb anyway. So "modern" will never ever fit in "monarchy".

 

[wyevale]

The 21st C should not have any person who is head of state by deduction of a womb anyway.

Surely THAT is to be decided upon by the populace of the Nation concerned ?

 

[lula]

Equality between men and women is not a question of modernity, it is a matter of common sense. The same attitude can not be condemned in one, and attacked in another.

In the Monarchy the protocol gives a place to each one in the framework of the institutional role, but that does not mean that in human relations one is above another, they must be equal beings and with the same rights.

 

[Marengo]

Posts about how these awful commoners are ruining Europe's royal families have been removed. Replies to deleted posts have been removed as well.

As all regular posters are well aware, the discussion of commoners in royal families can be discussed in this thread: http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f164/marriage-to-commoners-vs-royals-nobles-5585.html

Judging from the high amount of complaints we have received over the years, few of our members are interested in hearing the same argument by the same poster for the zillionth time at each and every opportunity available.

Those who are interested in discussing the topic further can do so in the thread that I linked.

 

[dbarn67]

Felipe is the one who should be the voice of reason between his mother and his wife. It seems he hasn't told his mother to respect his wife and his mother to respect his wife and her place beside him. From the comments on some the videos of the incident I've seen Leonor is getting some backlash. Its not the she pushed her grandmother's away its the force with which she did it. She was reacting on instinct to being crowded and tugged. The whole thing is unfortunate. I can see culpability AND the reasons for everyone's behavior. Regardless of the PR I hope that some peace can be achieved in this family. So sad.

 

[Emmily]

They are doing something to address the horrible situation. And that means they have listened to the criticism.
Good!

It may also be an indication that King Felipe (about time) has put his foot down and told his two Queens in no uncertain terms to behave while in public. - As they should under any circumstances!

You can say it's over the top and that it fools no one or that it humiliates one or the other, perhaps it is, I don't care. To me it's the intention that matters.
And the SRF have today at least shown that they intend to correct the PR-blunder and that I find positive.

Finally, I do not buy the argument that Leonor should in any way have been responsible!
Leonor had no problems with her grandmother before the incident, she had no problems afterwards and she seemingly have no problems today.
It was only when her mother and grandmother pressed their noses together right in front of her that she objected.

I'm sure Leonor will throw the odd tantrum from time to time and slam the odd door. (Or she will in the future...) But she didn't at the cathedral.

Very much agree with you, particularly regarding Leonor.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Normally nothing royal related makes the papers here unless its to do with the British RF or Monaco's Princely Family,I think the last time a Spanish royal was mentioned was in 2014 when King Juan Carlos abdicated.

https://www.independent.ie/style/ce...tense-video-of-the-pair-emerged-36786173.html

 

[PetticoatLane]

I rather take issue with the idea that being a "modern, independent, 21st Century woman" somehow includes deliberately humiliating your rather elderly mother-in-law and former queen in front of the world.

News to me as a 21st Century woman!

 

[tommy100]

I would have thought a modern 21st century woman would want to be above arguing with their mother in law in public.

Honestly, to me the two most interesting things to come out of this are :
a) how differently people can see and interpret the same incident

b) how the Spanish monarchy has, like many others in Europe, seemingly become an ongoing family drama for the press to comment upon rather than a respected important state institution (that isn't a dig at the new King & Queen at all - we saw the change begin and perhaps even take a key role in Juan Carlos abdicating)

 

[wyevale]

Juan Carlos and Sofia did PLENTY to bring the throne into disrepute during the last years of his reign- he by his adultery and other misdemeanours and she for her notorious [and misplaced] sympathy for the Infanta Cristina and her criminal of a husband..

 

[Florestane]

Juan Carlos and Sofia did PLENTY to bring the throne into disrepute during the last years of his reign- he by his adultery and other misdemeanours and she for her notorious [and misplaced] sympathy for the Infanta Cristina and her criminal of a husband..

I think that's a little unfair to Queen Sofia - Cristina is her daughter after all. A little more discretion maybe but I think it's a bit much to expect her to completely turn her back on her daughter and grandchildren.

 

[wyevale]

expect her to completely turn her back on her daughter and grandchildren.

I wasn't and wouldn't expect that of any parent, but as you say greater discretion is necessary, and any attempt to wheedle the Infanta back into the public spotlight is unacceptable..

 

[Marengo]

Posters are requested to stop referring to "the King's spouse" or "the previous King's spouse".

Although the term is correct, it is clear that the posters are playing games & are trolling this thread. The intent is to show disdain to either Queen Letizia or Queen Sofia.

Posters interested in petty games are requested to alter their behavior or see their posting privileges revoked.

 

[M. Payton]

Neither Letizia or Sofia is in the right here, both made mistakes as it take 2 to tangle/have a disagreement. So your saying that if someone has a disagreement with an in law the marriage is cracking..........good grief there must be tons of new divorces hitting the courts around the world today ....as humans *We are all FLAWED*, and have disagreements, some quiet, some loud and out there, so what, apologize and go about life and move on....

 

[leidi]

Nowadays people like Felipe more than they like Juan Carlos but they like Letizia FAR less than they like Sofía.

That's how it is and the girls are pretty much unknown to the greater public, unlike their father and his sisters at the same age.

They do need to hire a good PR team that can make things turn around tbh, their efforts to "fix things" so far have looked clumsy and fake.

 

[DMR412]

What was the relationship between Queen Sofia and her mother-in-law, Countess of Barcelona like? Also, in the early days what type of relationship did Queen Sofia have with her sisters-in-law, Infantas Pilar and Margarita? I’ve read that Queen Victoria-Eugenia had issues with her mother-in-law, Queen Maria Cristina.

 

[camelot23ca]

I rather take issue with the idea that being a "modern, independent, 21st Century woman" somehow includes deliberately humiliating your rather elderly mother-in-law and former queen in front of the world.

News to me as a 21st Century woman!

I very much take issue with the idea, as well. I also don’t see any evidence that Letizia is especially modern or independent, or especially hard working or professional.

Any truly modern, professional woman who has achieved even a modest degree of success or prominence in her career knows she has to control her behaviour at all times on the job. First, because that’s what professionals do and second because she knows all eyes are on her and if she does behave inappropriately it WILL be blown out of proportion, people won’t forget and they certainly won’t forgive in the same way they would a man who did the exact same thing. Messing up even once, especially in a role where she is representing an organization in public, can be catastrophic to her career advancement, messing up multiple times could very well end it. That’s the reality for the majority of professional, modern women in the 21st century.

Up until now Letizia has had no problem dressing in ways she knew would be considered inappropriate by many. If she didn’t want to spend much time greeting a friendly crowd, she didn’t. If she didn’t want to be gracious, or even polite, to the press, she wasn’t. If she was in a bad mood, you knew it. And now the incident in Palma. Letizia should thank God she’s actually NOT a professional, that she’s part of an institution that is anything but modern and that she’s not in any way independent of her husband’s role because any actual professional who caused such a massive amount of negative publicity for the organization they worked for would be fired immediately.

 

[leidi]

What was the relationship between Queen Sofia and her mother-in-law, Countess of Barcelona like? Also, in the early days what type of relationship did Queen Sofia have with her sisters-in-law, Infantas Pilar and Margarita? I’ve read that Queen Victoria-Eugenia had issues with her mother-in-law, Queen Maria Cristina.

I think Sofía and Pilar have never truly seen eye to eye because they are both quite headstrong women but they get along just enough, both JC & Sofía have always had a soft spot for Margarita, probably because of her disability but she's definitely the favorite one between JC's sisters.

Sofía and María de las Mercedes got along well enough, they didn't share as much time together due to the rift between Don Juan and JC but MdM ended up spending a lot of time with Sofía in the latest years of her life, I remember Sofía holding her hand at Don Juan's funeral.

I very much take issue with the idea, as well. I also don’t see any evidence that Letizia is especially modern or independent, or especially hard working or professional.

Any truly modern, professional woman who has achieved even a modest degree of success or prominence in her career knows she has to control her behaviour at all times on the job. First, because that’s what professionals do and second because she knows all eyes are on her and if she does behave inappropriately it WILL be blown out of proportion, people won’t forget and they certainly won’t forgive in the same way they would a man who did the exact same thing. Messing up even once, especially in a role where she is representing an organization in public, can be catastrophic to her career advancement, messing up multiple times could very well end it. That’s the reality for the majority of professional, modern women in the 21st century.

Up until now Letizia has had no problem dressing in ways she knew would be considered inappropriate by many. If she didn’t want to spend much time greeting a friendly crowd, she didn’t. If she didn’t want to be gracious, or even polite, to the press, she wasn’t. If she was in a bad mood, you knew it. And now the incident in Palma. Letizia should thank God she’s actually NOT a professional, that she’s part of an institution that is anything but modern and that she’s not in any way independent of her husband’s role because any actual professional who caused such a massive amount of negative publicity for the organization they worked for would be fired immediately.

THIS.
That's why people call her a 8-5 Queen, she takes this like an "office" job, where she can switch off and on whenever she likes and no, this is a life committment and I do believe she's never understood that (or never wanted to learn how to deal with it).

 

[Kronprinz]

Neither Letizia or Sofia is in the right here, both made mistakes as it take 2 to tangle/have a disagreement. So your saying that if someone has a disagreement with an in law the marriage is cracking..........good grief there must be tons of new divorces hitting the courts around the world today ....as humans *We are all FLAWED*, and have disagreements, some quiet, some loud and out there, so what, apologize and go about life and move on....

The big difference is that this family is not like any other normal family...it was not just this scene. The fact that Letizia apparently keeps Sofia away from her daughters plus my own thoughts that she's also showing signs of being fed up with royal life make me believe this.

When I see Letizia, I see someone who feels absolutely suffocated by the royal bubble. Keeping up appearances all the time, shaking hands with thousands of people you're never going to see again, having your whole life checked and re-checked by the press every single day...all of that would take a toll on someone who was not born a royal.

 

[lula]

Queen Letizia organizes her life like any other European princess or queen of her generation. She has official occupations, and a time that she dedicates to her family, her friends or her hobbies.

The problem is that Spain was used to Queen Sofia, a woman who lived in the palace and only left for official events recorded by cameras. A woman who barely had a normal life in Madrid, and when she wanted to go shopping she went to London. A woman who had no real friends in Spain.

Queen Sofia was not queen 24 hours a day, the problem was that people only saw her being queen, but that her private life was developing far from the Spanish.

Letizia has family and friends who live in Madrid, she goes to restaurants, to cinemas, to concerts ... she has a normal and healthy life, and to live it she does not need to do it outside of Spain.

 

[Kitty1224]

I think Sofía and Pilar have never truly seen eye to eye because they are both quite headstrong women but they get along just enough, both JC & Sofía have always had a soft spot for Margarita, probably because of her disability but she's definitely the favorite one between JC's sisters.

Sofía and María de las Mercedes got along well enough, they didn't share as much time together due to the rift between Don Juan and JC but MdM ended up spending a lot of time with Sofía in the latest years of her life, I remember Sofía holding her hand at Don Juan's funeral.



THIS.
That's why people call her a 8-5 Queen, she takes this like an "office" job, where she can switch off and on whenever she likes and no, this is a life committment and I do believe she's never understood that (or never wanted to learn how to deal with it).

I agree. Being Queen is for life. 24/7. You can't have an on and off button.

 

[MARG]

I pity the children being treated like mannequins at their mother's behest. She does not behave as a Queen should and is giving the children a false idea of what royalty is. The other thing I saw was that in the video Leonor was quite happy to be with her grandmother but her reaction to Letizia's arrival was odd, almost as if she was doing something wrong by allowing her grandmother to hold her.

 

[M. Payton]

Perhaps its the view that some here that Letizia being queen consort and not born royal should have her entire life dictated by the wishes of Sofia, thr trolls, the media or the government and be a puppet on a string to push and pull in whatever direction is deemed acceptable for the flavor of the day.

Given that with all the crap that she has had to put up with from day 1 by her in/laws, the trolls, the media, members of her own family I think any person would by now have a d**n fit or whatever.

Just as the younger generation should show respect to their elders (mind not all elders are *of sound and reasonable nature* for they can have an attitude of self importance since they are elders) but because they are elders, well then those *elders* should show that same respect to the younger generation for that is how they learn. It has to WORK both ways in life, you get what you sow and again why this is a problem for some that BOTH LADIES were at fault as one is an *elder* and one is an *younger*. NO one can have any type of good relationship if BOTH parties do not work at it, this is not rocket science here. So open the guns and fire away..........?

 

[M. Payton]

Strangest thing I saw on TV last night, an silly entertainment show, some fashion show in NYC and of all things here come Catherine Zeta Jones walking down the red carpet and guess what she was doing, holding hands with *drum roll please*...her daughter who was *14* years old. Was CZJ in the wrong to hold hands with her daughter I ask? I see Letizia holding hands with her girls, what are they 10 to 12, is wrong I ask? I would like to think that perhaps *both mothers* are guiding and showing love to their girls for after all they are MOTHERS first in this world.

Not everybody can have a mother or father that loves them in this world and I think that both of the girls are blessed and lucky to have parents that love them, care for them, nurture them, guide them and have their backs to to speak. Not a darn thing wrong with that for there are millions of kids out there desperate for just that.

 

[Gawin]

What do critics of Letizia suggest she do to improve her image or earn their respect? I'm not being snarky, I know very little about her and genuinely would like to know.

 

[Kitty1224]

What do critics of Letizia suggest she do to improve her image or earn their respect? I'm not being snarky, I know very little about her and genuinely would like to know.

Because she represents a country and the people.

 

[Princess Larisa]

Because she represents a country and the people.

The question was what, not why.

 

[donnaK]

Calling Letizia a 9-5 royal just shows how ruthless a certain sector of the press is in Spain. Nobody is a 7-24 royal on duties, everyone needs a break. Madrid airport's gossip has always said Sofia was usually the first one at the airport when Friday came, that was long before Felipe got married. Nobody knew how JC spent his weekends or holidays most of the times. If JC didn't break his hip, anyone would know he was hunting elephants with his mistress in Africa ? There was another big event back in 90s, when the government needed JC to sign in the new foreign minister, nobody knew where he was, at the end he was in Switzerland with another mistress.
Letizia went to lots of events with Felipe, Felipe has been seen calling shots mostly. if once in a blue moon she didn't want to repeat greeting the press, or she told Felipe they needed to leave for whatever reasons, she was immediately being mocked as ungrateful to the press, didn't want to greet the well wishers. I have never seen any other royal being put in this type of scrutiny as her, being attacked by so many trivial non-issues she did or didn't do.

 

[Lady Nimue]

Calling Letizia a 9-5 royal just shows how ruthless a certain sector of the press is in Spain. Nobody is a 7-24 royal on duties, everyone needs a break. Madrid airport's gossip has always said Sofia was usually the first one at the airport when Friday came, that was long before Felipe got married. Nobody knew how JC spent his weekends or holidays most of the times. If JC didn't break his hip, anyone would know he was hunting elephants with his mistress in Africa ? There was another big event back in 90s, when the government needed JC to sign in the new foreign minister, nobody knew where he was, at the end he was in Switzerland with another mistress.

Letizia went to lots of events with Felipe, Felipe has been seen calling shots mostly. if once in a blue moon she didn't want to repeat greeting the press, or she told Felipe they needed to leave for whatever reasons, she was immediately being mocked as ungrateful to the press, didn't want to greet the well wishers. I have never seen any other royal being put in this type of scrutiny as her, being attacked by so many trivial non-issues she did or didn't do.

Thank you, donnaK, for the invaluable context for those of us not so well versed in the history of Juan Carlos and Sofia as monarchs. It makes what is getting directed at Letizia all the more puzzling (to the outsider looking in).

 

[leidi]

Calling Letizia a 9-5 royal just shows how ruthless a certain sector of the press is in Spain. Nobody is a 7-24 royal on duties, everyone needs a break. Madrid airport's gossip has always said Sofia was usually the first one at the airport when Friday came, that was long before Felipe got married. Nobody knew how JC spent his weekends or holidays most of the times. If JC didn't break his hip, anyone would know he was hunting elephants with his mistress in Africa ? There was another big event back in 90s, when the government needed JC to sign in the new foreign minister, nobody knew where he was, at the end he was in Switzerland with another mistress.
Letizia went to lots of events with Felipe, Felipe has been seen calling shots mostly. if once in a blue moon she didn't want to repeat greeting the press, or she told Felipe they needed to leave for whatever reasons, she was immediately being mocked as ungrateful to the press, didn't want to greet the well wishers. I have never seen any other royal being put in this type of scrutiny as her, being attacked by so many trivial non-issues she did or didn't do.

Actually, JC's escapades were pretty well known by all Spaniards, I can almost give you a chronological list of his mistresses, we all know who they are, there are even pictures of him with them.

Hell, we even saw him naked in a boat once

For Sofía, she's always been terribly reserved in her "personal" life but we also know she has like 3 friends because she understood how important it was to keep the Crown safe (like QEII has done), yet we see pics of her in London with her sister, in Greece with Tino & Co, in Geneva visiting Cristina & Co, we always saw pictures of her visiting her children when they were studying abroad, etc.

With F&L and their children, a LOT of the time we don't know where they spend their holidays outside of Spain, they have a perfectly great place in Marivent to promote tourism and spend their holidays, they don't even have to go out every day, the place is pretty private and they can sunbath and whatnot there; if they want to leave, at least let people know where they are, because after all we're paying for that and if we're paying for the keeping of a huge complex in Mallorca, do we also have to pay for their "foreign" holidays?

Would it kill them to be like the Belgians for example, from whom we always know if they are in France, in Spain, in Italy, hell, we knew they were in India at one point. A couple of pictures and the paps will leave them alone the rest of the way. (And they don't have a Marivent or a Balmoral, a place where they always spend their holidays).

It's basic PR.

And what do we mean with the 9-5 comment? Not that you NEVER have a break but that if you're in public, you keep yourself together unless it's like a funeral or something, you don't throw tantrums, touch your children endlessly to the point of making everyone desperate, slap hands away or kick car doors open because you're mad at something.

We all have to behave in our day jobs, why can't she do the same? Specially since her job is basically PR and image.