Relationships between Members of the Spanish Royal Family


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I didn't see any photos of Letizia with her inlaws yesterday at the anniversary Mass for the late Count of Barcelona.
 
Muhler said:
For those of us who are Spanish-challenged and don't trust Google translate that much, could someone please give us a summary in English? ?
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the friend basically says the Letizia is worried about her daughters and their image and wants to protect them, hence her reaction as a mother.
she suffers from her gestures being analyzed ad nauseam and that she not given the same standard as Queen Sofia, who can do no wrong in the media.
 
Besides what has happened today , our those two royal ladies know to get on well together ?
 
Muhler said:
Forgive me for describing what everyone have already seen, it serves merely to explain how I perceived it in order to get to my point.

The way I saw the whole incident was:
Queen Sofia was getting ready to pose with her granddaughters, who seemingly had problems with that.
Queen Letizia stepped in front of them. Queen Sofia reacted by sidestepping with her granddaughters, that was countered by Queen Letizia.
Judging from the body language of King Felipe, he first directed his attention towards his wife, and later his mother.
Words must have been exchanged, because judging from King Juan Carlos body language he was focused on what went on.
At this point Queen Sofia for some reason tightened her grip around the children, leading Leonor to remove her hand - twice.
Then Queen Sofia backed down, until they went outside...

If that wasn't a row of some sort, you can start calling me Max von Schweinstein!

Clearly the family have some unresolved issues. The extended family in fact!
An episode like that just doesn't come out of the blue! Not for people who are so experienced, there has to be some unresolved tensions that surfaced here.
Have the Queens had episodes in the past where there was a visual tension between them?

Because this is bad!
This episode alone provides enough material for the gossip mags and online sites to discuss the "poor relation" between the two Queens for years!
I have seen comments about Queen Letizia and they shocked me. I thought Madeleine, Mary, Kate and now also Meghan and so on got some serious heat from time to time, but it's nothing compared to Queen Letizia IMO!
Even serious biographers will focus on this episode. It is after all rare you see senior royals have an argument in public.
So the Spanish RF cannot afford more episodes like this.

Having said all that, Marie-Chantal has disappointed me deeply.
As others have pointed out, even in a normal family, her comments online would be pretty noticeable to say the least!
Marie-Chantal IMO ought to be too professional and too experienced in royal etiquette to not immediately regret posting something like what she has tweeted. - Yet she hasn't...
And she wasn't even there and she wasn't personally involved!
And that leads me to conclude that the issues within the family go pretty deep. And keep in mind that Marie-Chantal married into the GRF, so I think it's safe to assume that her sentiment is at least shared with her husband.

So this is a bad day for the Spanish royals. No matter how much they smile in the years to come, even if their smiles are genuine, it will at best takes years before the public believe the two Queens are on good terms again.
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Pure wisdom exuding from our venerable Mr. Muhler! :flowers:
 
tommy100 said:
Well I've read all the comments and watched every video from every angle about a thousand times. My two cents:

Sofia notices the photographer (one of only a few allowed inside so likely the official photographer or one at least on good enough terms to be permitted so close)
He indicates through a look or gesture he wants to take a photo, maybe even just raising his camera ready to take a shot. Sofia, quite instinctively I imagine, pulls her granddaughters in close to her for the picture.
The girls and Sofia are all smiling and seem quite happy
Then Letizia steps in front of the photographer so the shot can not be taken. This does seem IMO quite accidental as first, its very busy at the back of the church so its understandable people are getting in the way of each other.
Sofia moves position with the girls to try and get a clear shot for the photo, she seems quite smily and happy, almost amused by it.
Felipe sees what is going on and tries to guide Letizia out of the way
HERE is where is goes wrong IMO. Letizia could of just moved out the way and allowed the photo.
Instead she stops the photo by staying in the way and trying to brush it off by playing with Leonor's hair as a way to look like she has a purpose to be standing right in front of the group to prevent a photo. Here, IMO, Letizia is in the wrong.
Sofia is having none of it and pulls the girls in closer while getting cross at Letizia as it has become clearer she doesn't want the picture to be taken. Here Sofia is in the wrong and could have just walked away but emotion gets the better of her.
Leonor pulls away, maybe just sick of the whole incident and possibly fed up of waiting for a photo that obviously now isn't going to happen.
Sofia seems really upset when she walks out the church and tried to pose again with the girls and Letizia is still there so she smiles and walks away.
They seem to be trying to look civilised before putting distance between themselves.

I appreciate everyone saying a mother is always right when it comes to her daughters but this isn't a stranger we are talking about, its their grandmother.
There is no good reason IMO not to allow the picture. They are about to walk out in public and could be photographed in all manner of combinations (Felipe, the girls, Sofia / Letizia, Juan Carlos, Felipe and on and on) by anyone who happens to be close enough. Why not just let this photographer who must be at least semi-official take a picture of the girls and their grandmother. If Letizia didn't want it made public after she could have, I am sure, prevented it from being released. Sofia obviously doesn't understand why the photo can't just be taken and I have to say neither do I. I get I am not privy to all the details of this royal family but out of anyone in the SRF Sofia seems to be most respectable and close to Felipe and his family. Yes, on reflection Sofia should have just let the whole thing drop and walked away but I think she truly dotes on her grandchildren so just wanted a photo and reacted with emotion, from the heart not her head.
I just don't see how a photo of her girls with Sofia could upset Letizia and that speaks IMO of a deeper issue. As for MC's comments it only adds to the feeling there is already tension there but really she should keep her nose out of it, very unusual for a royal, or any one with manners, to comment on twitter about a family matter.
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I agree. I watched the video a few times and have seen several screenshots of the incident and it does seem that Letizia tries to downplay the situation by playing with Leonor's hair, acting like she almost accidentally bumped into Sofia though her body language indicates that Letizia didn't wish for the photo to be taken. I have always thought of Sofia as a dedicated grandmother who adores her grandchildren, and as you have pointed out, she reacted more emotionally than practically (perhaps indicating the screenshot where Letizia is pointing at Sofia and Sofia reacts with a rather irritated expression - I think it wasn't best for Letizia to react to Sofia in this way publicly).

If there are tensions between Sofia and Letizia, I also agree with those who have said that it is best not to display them publicly - and also not a good idea to involve Leonor and Sofia jr. who aren't involved in such tensions apart from the fact that they're Letizia's children.
Marie Chantal's comments were totally uncalled for though and make it seem like she just wanted to add more fuel to the fire. The "happy grandparents" post was particularly malicious IMO.
 
wyevale said:
Sadly this 'regrettable incident' will ensure that EVERY future appearance of Queens Letizia and Sofia together are pored over in the minutest detail for the tiniest signs of discord between them..
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Unless they will do a quick joint appearance and make a few jokes about it together I fear the same. Very much like what happened with the two Grand Duchesses of Luxembourg a while ago.

From a different angle:


-
Some on twitter are having fun with the topic; the Infanta & the queens:

https://twitter.com/x/status/981439678162358274
 
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Duke, the friends of Letizia never speak ... I have seen some of them interrogated indirectly by their television companions and give neutral answers, even though many times they could say many things.

Letizia is already very much assuming the attacks on her, but in this case Leonor is being attacked very cruelly, and the queen's only preoccupation will be how this affects her daughter.
 
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An Ard Ri said:
I didn't see any photos of Letizia with her inlaws yesterday at the anniversary Mass for the late Count of Barcelona.
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Because they where seated next to the Main Altar. Juan Carlos and Sofia where seated down the steps before the Altar which i found a bit strange given that the Mass was in Honor of King Juan Carlos's father.
 
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Duke of Marmalade said:
the friend basically says the Letizia is worried about her daughters and their image and wants to protect them, hence her reaction as a mother.
she suffers from her gestures being analyzed ad nauseam and that she not given the same standard as Queen Sofia, who can do no wrong in the media.
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Thanks. :flowers:

I sincerely hope the two Queen don't begin to fight by proxy!
I.e. Marie-Chantal and her allies on one side and Queen Letizia's friends on the other. Because then King Felipe is forced to step in and step in hard, even to the point of alienating himself with parts of his family. - And without having to look into a crystal ball he will side with his wife, regardless. He simply has to. He can't distance himself from his Queen.

Remember Charles and Diana, who also fought by proxy, using the media? I took I don't know how many years for the BRF to recover from that. Despite QEII's personal popularity and her not being directly involved herself.
King Felipe and Queen Letizia don't have that advantage.
 
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lula said:
Duke, the friends of Letizia never speak ... I have seen some of them interrogated indirectly by their television companions and give neutral answers, even though many times they could say many things.

Letizia is already very much assuming the attacks on her, but in this case Leonor is being attacked very cruelly, and the queen's only preoccupation will be how this affects her daughter.
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Thanks - did you see this in the Spanish media because all coverage I have seen is focussing on the narrative of the Queens not getting along, Letizia being a control freak and not on Leonor, with all speculation it's quite obvious that there is an overstrained teenager in the middle of a situation.
 
What disgusts me even more about MC's completely absurd tweet and Insta post is that she pretens to care about the grandparents, but totally bypasses the fact that there are two little girls there who now have to deal with tension between their mother and grandmother and have it heavily reported on. Completely and utterly distasteful. Letizia and Sofia are grown women, they can deal with this. Those girls are still developing. :nonono:
 
Social media has been absolutely vicious, calling poor Leonor "maleducada." People are horrible.
 
That slow motion video speaks volumes. Clearly, I was wrong that Letizia was upset with the camera guy, she was upset with Sofia. As she should be! Sofia had a very tight grip on the girls, pulling them so tight to her that they were having a little trouble standing straight. That's not ok. A mother has to protect her daughters, yes, even from a well-meaning but harmful grandmother.
 
Marengo said:
Unless they will do a quick joint appearance and make a few jokes about it together I fear the same. Very much like what happened with the two Grand Duchesses of Luxembourg a while ago.

From a different angle:


-
Some on twitter are having fun with the topic; the Infanta & the queens:

https://twitter.com/x/status/981439678162358274
Click to expand...

Thanks, Marengo. :flowers:

Queen Sofia seemed pretty insistent about not letting go of her granddaughters. She only backed down when King Felipe seeming told her to.
Well, we all know that once the anger is boiling, you can get pretty stubborn! So IMO that's not a conclusive proof of who was at fault here.
 
moby said:
Social media has been absolutely vicious, calling poor Leonor "maleducada." People are horrible.
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What was the poor girl supposed to do? Caught as she was in a row between her mother and grandmother.
 
Empress Merel said:
What disgusts me even more about MC's completely absurd tweet and Insta post is that she pretens to care about the grandparents, but totally bypasses the fact that there are two little girls there who now have to deal with tension between their mother and grandmother and have it heavily reported on. Completely and utterly distasteful. Letizia and Sofia are grown women, they can deal with this. Those girls are still developing. :nonono:
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Precisely - Marie Chantal's comments were already malicious enough but the fact that she has not considered the wellbeing of two young girls who aren't involved in the tensions makes them even more so. I've never been a huge fan of Marie Chantal and this whole situation has only confirmed my feelings for her. How would she react if it were one of her children in Leonor's position?
 
in this case Leonor is being attacked very cruelly
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HOW [in God's name] could anyone attack a child over this ? At worst she she shook off an unwanted embrace by an adult, and who amongst us hasn't done the same [when a child] ?
Only the adults ,one or both [depending on ones viewpoint] here, are at fault. The Infanta is utterly blameless.
 
Even the more serious Spanish newspapers are printing stories

elpais
The deteriorated relationship between Queens Letizia and Sofía.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/04/04/gente/1522832682_434515.html

Translation
https://translate.google.com/transl...nte/1522832682_434515.html&edit-text=&act=url


ElMundo


The unpopularity of Letizia

La impopularidad de Letizia | El blog de la Reina Letizia

Letizia will I fear come out worse in it all and will do nothing for her image ,its cruel seeing as Leonor is being ridiculed on social media.
 
moby said:
Social media has been absolutely vicious, calling poor Leonor "maleducada." People are horrible.
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That is very unfortunate. Also, when I read Marie-Chantal's twitter the first time on various articles I thought she was talking about Leonor! "No grandmother deserves that type of treatment! " Maybe she should have said "mother-on-law"...
 
What's the word on the street in Spain? Who is getting the blame?

I assume commentators are out in force as well; what is their take?

I cannot fathom why anyone would have a go at Leonor. Even if she was misbehaving (for once! she's not in the habit of misbehaving AFAIK) a twelve year old child should be forgiven, and especially be forgiven if someone violates her personal space.
It can't be people with children of their own who post that sort of, pardon me, crap.
 
Muhler said:
Thanks, Marengo. :flowers:

Queen Sofia seemed pretty insistent about not letting go of her granddaughters. She only backed down when King Felipe seeming told her to.
Well, we all know that once the anger is boiling, you can get pretty stubborn! So IMO that's not a conclusive proof of who was at fault here.
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We should really interview the older ladies sitting in the last pews... Ok, I'm just joking!! :lol:

I feel awful for Leonor and Sofia jr.
 
sm1939 said:
Besides what has happened today , our those two royal ladies know to get on well together ?
Click to expand...

Queen Sofía stood by her son and supported him fully in his choice for Letizia Ortiz. So Doña Sofía was Letizia's ally in the palace.
 
Leonor and Sofia Jr are absolute innocents in all of this, people who blame them are heartless tbh, they are children for god's sake, it's not their fault how the adults in their lives choose to behave :bang:

Letizia's image was bad before, but with this? Man, she's being slaughtered in social networks and in the media, a PR campaign of massive proportions is going to be needed to save her face, people often say that when someone says "Queen of Spain" they think of Sofía, never of Letizia, so the sides are pretty much taken at this point of the game.
 
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