Relationships between Members of the Spanish Royal Family

[moby]

This is the last thing any RF needs, but more so the Spanish RF. Just extremely unfortunate all in all. I have always liked Queen Letizia, there's little difference between her and the other Spanish mothers I see everyday with their kids. (My impression of her only changed a bit when my boss' wife said that during a reception, she was disappointed in how the Queen shook her hand but didn't meet her in the eye while doing so, like she was distracted and displayed no warmth. But King Felipe apparently exuded warmth, looked you right in the eye and made you feel important. Also, she and my boss were both shocked how much stronger Letizia's handshake was compared to Felipe ) Anyway, despite this, I still dont understand how she is largely blamed for what happened.

I also was a fan of Queen Sofia until this incident. She let her ego get in the way, thus creating this horrible situation. Honestly, first few times I viewed the clips, I thought she looked drunk :/

And Marie-Chantal, geesh. Shut up. You're just Regina George all grown up.
(Has any of the Borbon girls ever worn anything from her clothing line?)

Agree with the poster who said Sofia the younger has been largely ignored in all this--a blessing in disguise for her and the adults need to lay off Leonor as everybody seems to have her in a literal and figurative chokehold. Nobody wants a rebellious teen as future queen and thats likely to happen with the controlling adults around her.

 

[M. Payton]

I disagree. The late Queen Elizabeth, the late Queen Fabiola, Princess Beatrix, Queen Paola, they remain(ed) forefront figures and were (are) treated with all égards. This is not just a granny. This is Queen Sofía. This formidable lady has not endured Franco's dictatorship, the colonels in Greece, the military coup in Spain and her husband's eccentrics to get such a reaction in public, right aftet Easter Mass in the middle of Palma and in front of all and everyone.

The baffled reactions of Don Juan Carlos and Don Felipe said enough.

Wrong DeP, Queen Sofia is first and foremost a *Grandmother* and last a *Former Queen of Spain*, she of all should know that the mother of any child comes first as she was a mother of young children once. I believe that Queen Sofia had her arm to tight around Lenore's neck and that is why Lenore pushed it away, this is a family spat which got out of control in the public eye.

Now one thing, just because someone is *Born with Blue Blood* so to speak does not make they right in all situations. Being royal does not make anyone better then their neighbor or family member, it is how you treat others that you gain respect from anyone, not a title or money or power or the so called Blue Blood that is suppose to be above all else in this world. Your I believe someone who knows history well those with Blue Blood sure have messed up lives and countries in the history of royals as we all can read in the books out there. ?

 

[Queen Claude]

This has been the interpretation put upon Letizia walking in front of the threesome back-and-forth. However, it is clear that Letizia walks back-and-forth for quite other reasons than Sofia being with the children. I'm not sure why it keeps getting repeated that Letizia was trying to stop the picture? Can anyone explain?

I'll try but of course it's based on interpretation. Queen Letizia was trying to get to Queen Sofia and her daughters. Her crossing over and half-heartedly shaking one hand was a smoke screen, she has already started turning her body towards Sofia and the girls while the parishioner still has her hand. If her intention was to shake hands with the parishioners on that side, she would have remained in that area, instead she quickly shakes one hand and then goes over and stands in front of Sofia and her daughters.

BTW I notice that a common action from the adults is to touch the hair of the girls. This may be a nervous gesture (like a woman touching her own hair), or it could be a way of getting the child's full attention when about to give them instructions, though it may also be a comforting gesture for the girls (they do seem to expect it and glow when so touched). I don't see it as controlling in the least, and both Sofia and Letizia (and I think Felipe) do this gesture.

In the past I have seen the hair touching and other tactile gestures as a form of control or as a ploy of some sort. I don't want to make it seem too nefarious, Letizia could be making sure her daughters are OK, giving them a word or encouragement, a compliment and whatnot. But it can also be a PR / image conscious way to communicate instructions or reinforce a directive. I think that you or someone else said that Sofia's response came out of nowhere, I actually think that Sofia was "standing her ground" to continue doing what she was trying to do which was get her picture taken with her granddaughters.

So it looks like to me that Letizia was trying to be controlling and Sofia was not having it. As someone else mentioned, I don't see why Letizia felt the need to control the situation, but at the same time Sofia was too forceful in her resistance to Letizia trying to re-direct things IMO.

 

[Kitty1224]

This is the last thing any RF needs, but more so the Spanish RF. Just extremely unfortunate all in all. I have always liked Queen Letizia, there's little difference between her and the other Spanish mothers I see everyday with their kids. (My impression of her only changed a bit when my boss' wife said that during a reception, she was disappointed in how the Queen shook her hand but didn't meet her in the eye while doing so, like she was distracted and displayed no warmth. But King Felipe apparently exuded warmth, looked you right in the eye and made you feel important. Also, she and my boss were both shocked how much stronger Letizia's handshake was compared to Felipe ) Anyway, despite this, I still dont understand how she is largely blamed for what happened.

I also was a fan of Queen Sofia until this incident. She let her ego get in the way, thus creating this horrible situation. Honestly, first few times I viewed the clips, I thought she looked drunk :/

And Marie-Chantal, geesh. Shut up. You're just Regina George all grown up.
(Has any of the Borbon girls ever worn anything from her clothing line?)

Agree with the poster who said Sofia the younger has been largely ignored in all this--a blessing in disguise for her and the adults need to lay off Leonor as everybody seems to have her in a literal and figurative chokehold. Nobody wants a rebellious teen as future queen and thats likely to happen with the controlling adults around her.

I always hated when the British royals puts more favor to the heirs. Its not right. But I do not think Leonor will become rebellious. She seems more mature for her age.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The photographs outside the cathedral after Mass did not portray what elements of the media were reporting,the photos I have seen did not look like the aftermath of some heated incident but in fact looked warm and friendly.

 

[M. Payton]

Respectfully disagree. Beatrix has very much stepped away from the spotlight to make way for her son and daughter-in-law.

I agree with you Lady Nimue. I fail to see how this should reflect badly on Letizia when it's Sophia who practically has Leonor in a chokehold.

I very much agree with you and Lady Nimue for Queen Sofia did have Lenore in a *choke-hold* and it was probably getting very uncomfortable for her. Maybe Queen Sofia did not realize just how tight she was holding Lenore by putting her arm around the neck for after all Lenore is still a child, not a young adult yet. I saw Queen Sofia pulling her around with her arm around her neck like a rag doll....no wonder Lenore pushed her arm away and then Queen Letizia went over to check on her daughter which in turn made Queen Sofia put her arm around Lenore's neck even tighter.......family spat and stop the blame game on Letizia for after all she is the MOTHER of these girls, not Sofia or anyone else. Sofia needs to learn her place in this family, she is not the mother, just a grandmother who is acting like she is the one in control of the family.

 

[Juliette2]

Are you sure? They weren't just guiding him to walk backwards, they seemed to be tugging on him to get him away.

It's impossible that he was anything other than an "invited" or official video/photographer. Otherwise, the rest of the press would have done absolutely the same and got closer. Security is just keeping distance.

 

[Juliette2]

Yes, it is, and IIRIC Letizia was pointing where to place the purses.

Phew...?
Also, the *eye rolling" is unnecessary, thank you. We're all entitled to our opinions. I asked a question, and you answered.

 

[Juliette2]

Yes, he who took these photos (which are at the website of Casa Real) only a moment before queen Sofia decided that she wanted to pose with her granddaughters.
http://www.casareal.es/sitios/Lista...A-ES-197754/reyes_misa_pascua_20180401_06.jpg
http://www.casareal.es/sitios/Lista...A-ES-197754/reyes_misa_pascua_20180401_07.jpg

Interesting!

 

[Juliette2]

Which adds to the nonsense of the sitution. Why wouldn't Letizia want him to take a picture that they decide if can or not be published?

The whole thing is surreal.

Because she doesn't want her mother-in-law to upstage her, grab all the attention and monopolize her daughters?

 

[TLLK]

Yes, it is, and IIRIC Letizia was pointing where to place the purses.

*She writes as she rolls her eyes to the back of her head for the fifth time today*

Yes I recall seeing the video in which Letizia was clearly asking Sofia where to place her purse.

 

[Kitty1224]

Because she doesn't want her mother-in-law to upstage her, grab all the attention and monopolize her daughters?

At the end of the day they are all at fault and this has put a damper on the Spanish Monarchy image. They should have known better esp with how the monarchy is which is not strong at all.

 

[Juliette2]

Yes I recall seeing the video in which Letizia was clearly asking Sofia where to place her purse.

That's why videos are so much better than pictures!! ?

 

[mariazil]

I don't comment very often, though I do read and follow Royal Families here in this forum...what perplexes me is how on earth a woman who has worked as a journalist in the public media can expect to control the uncontrollable: she married a Prince who eventually became a King, which makes her a Queen, therefore a public figure. Their children are public figures, too, she knew it would be so. OK, she wants people to respect the privacy of her family life. This is easy, they live in a palace/villa whatever you call it in the suburbs. So, their private life is protected 24/7. When they appear in ceremonies and official duty appearances, every Tom, Dick and Harry (or rather Jose, Juan y Jorge) just take their smartphones and get as many snapshots as they like, videos, too. Because they are public figures, performing in public. This is also obvious in this video, as you can see the smartphone screens capturing the "happy" incident... So, what is this all about? This is not about the girls not being photographed, this is about the girls not being photographed with their Royal Grandmother; personal, family tensions should not interfere with the work; this is bad for their image, bad for the girls' education, bad for her own persona... King Felipe's look towards Letizia in the car, after everything was over, speaks a thousand words; he was there and he heard the conversation we can't hear. Very unfortunate incident, very bad behaviour, unacceptable by the mother of a future Queen...If Queen Sofia was mistaken in her attitude, well, she can be forgiven for a mistake in the 57 years she has served Spain in such an impeccable way and she deserves a favour for being an 80-year-old lady and a grandma. I hope when Letizia reaches that age, she has accomplished 1/10 of what Sofia has, so she can earn the respect of the Spaniards.
PS. MC's comment totally unacceptable too. I would never think that Queen Sofia would ever approve this, either.

 

[TLLK]

That's why videos are so much better than pictures!! ?

Indeed they are.

 

[Juliette2]

Footage shows 'tense scene' between Letizia of Spain and Queen Sofia during their Easter service | Daily Mail Online

wow! definitely is something going on! the video wonder what the heck was going on there?

There's a whole discussion going on here http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...panish-royal-family-13487-36.html#post2089080

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Has Marie-Chantal's tweet been removed? I just checked her account.

no, its still there. MC made a comment to a tweet from somebody else, she did not start the topic herself.

https://twitter.com/x/status/981199198493306883

The topic is such a hot trend now, videos up everywhere in slow motion and what not.

to me, Letizia is clearly blocking the picture for whatever reason and there is an unpleasant exchange with Sofia, it can be seen in her face. Felipe clearly tries to intervene/moderate, Leonor being overwhelmed with the situation.

The SRF know more than well that every second will be filmed from every angle therefore to have such an encounter in public is news, usually they all act for harmony and perfection.

King Felipe's look towards Letizia in the car, after everything was over, speaks a thousand words; he was there and he heard the conversation we can't hear.

THIS! The look is in the video too, speaks volumes!!!

 

[Juliette2]

At the end of the day they are all at fault and this has put a damper on the Spanish Monarchy image. They should have known better esp with how the monarchy is which is not strong at all.

Absolutely. I completely agree. Not to mention Marie-Chantal's Twitter comment...Despicable behavior all around.

 

[Kitty1224]

?

I don't comment very often, though I do read and follow Royal Families here in this forum...what perplexes me is how on earth a woman who has worked as a journalist in the public media can expect to control the uncontrollable: she married a Prince who wventually became a King, which makes he a Queen, therefore a public figure. Their children are public figures, too, she knew it would be so. OK, she wants people to respect the privacy of her family life. This is easy, they live in a palace/villa whatever you call it in the suburbs. So, their private life is protected 24/7. When they appear in ceremonies and official duty appearances, every Tom, Dick and Harry (or rather Jose, Juan y Jorge) just take their smartphones and get as many snapshots as they like, videos, too. Because they are public figures, performing in public. This is also obvious in this video, as you can see the smartphone screens capturing the "happy" incident... So, what is this all about? This is not about the girls not being photographed, this is about the girls not being photographed with their Royal Grandmother; personal, family tensions should not interfere with the work; this is bad for their image, bad for the girls' education, bad for her own persona... King Felipe's look towards Letizia in the car, after everything was over, speaks a thousand words; he was there and he heard the conversation we can't hear. Very unfortunate incident, very bad behaviour, unacceptable by the mother of a future Queen...If Queen Sofia was mistaken in her attitude, well, she can be forgiven for a mistake in the 57 years she has served Spain in an impeccable way and she deserves a favour for being an 80-year-old lady and a grandma. I hope when Letizia reaches that age, she has accomplished 1/10 of what Sofia has, so she can earn the respect of the Spaniards.
PS. MC's comment totally unacceptable too. I would never think that Queen Sofia would ever approve this, either.

I agree with you. I think some royals need to understand that they are public servants and there to serve the people. The lifestyle they have and privileges they should not complain and get on with it. Same with William and Kate as well.

 

[wyevale]

Sadly this 'regrettable incident' will ensure that EVERY future appearance of Queens Letizia and Sofia together are pored over in the minutest detail for the tiniest signs of discord between them..
The children will 'cope', it is the King and the institution itself I most sorry for .
[Oh to be 'a fly on the Wall' at the Zarzuela when they all got home !]

 

[Juliette2]

I don't comment very often, though I do read and follow Royal Families here in this forum...what perplexes me is how on earth a woman who has worked as a journalist in the public media can expect to control the uncontrollable: she married a Prince who wventually became a King, which makes he a Queen, therefore a public figure. Their children are public figures, too, she knew it would be so. OK, she wants people to respect the privacy of her family life. This is easy, they live in a palace/villa whatever you call it in the suburbs. So, their private life is protected 24/7. When they appear in ceremonies and official duty appearances, every Tom, Dick and Harry (or rather Jose, Juan y Jorge) just take their smartphones and get as many snapshots as they like, videos, too. Because they are public figures, performing in public. This is also obvious in this video, as you can see the smartphone screens capturing the "happy" incident... So, what is this all about? This is not about the girls not being photographed, this is about the girls not being photographed with their Royal Grandmother; personal, family tensions should not interfere with the work; this is bad for their image, bad for the girls' education, bad for her own persona... King Felipe's look towards Letizia in the car, after everything was over, speaks a thousand words; he was there and he heard the conversation we can't hear. Very unfortunate incident, very bad behaviour, unacceptable by the mother of a future Queen...If Queen Sofia was mistaken in her attitude, well, she can be forgiven for a mistake in the 57 years she has served Spain in an impeccable way and she deserves a favour for being an 80-year-old lady and a grandma. I hope when Letizia reaches that age, she has accomplished 1/10 of what Sofia has, so she can earn the respect of the Spaniards.
PS. MC's comment totally unacceptable too. I would never think that Queen Sofia would ever approve this, either.

Very well stated mariazil.

 

[Kitty1224]

Absolutely. I completely agree. Not to mention Marie-Chantal's Twitter comment...Despicable behavior all around.

I agree. Her comment was not necessary. This incident really put a bad image on the monarchy. Sucks.

 

[Juliette2]

In the video, when Felipe touches Letizia on the arm his look seems to say "Calm down..."

 

[Kitty1224]

Sadly this 'regrettable incident' will ensure that EVERY future appearance of Queens Letizia and Sofia together are pored over in the minutest detail for the tiniest signs of discord between them..
The children will 'cope', it is the King and the institution itself I most sorry for .
[Oh to be 'a fly on the Wall' at the Zarzuela when they all got home !]

Why do you feel bad for The King and the institution?

 

[Muhler]

Forgive me for describing what everyone have already seen, it serves merely to explain how I perceived it in order to get to my point.

The way I saw the whole incident was:
Queen Sofia was getting ready to pose with her granddaughters, who seemingly had no problems with that.
Queen Letizia stepped in front of them. Queen Sofia reacted by sidestepping with her granddaughters, that was countered by Queen Letizia.
Judging from the body language of King Felipe, he first directed his attention towards his wife, and later his mother.
Words must have been exchanged, because judging from King Juan Carlos body language he was focused on what went on.
At this point Queen Sofia for some reason tightened her grip around the children, leading Leonor to remove her hand - twice.
Then Queen Sofia backed down, until they went outside...

If that wasn't a row of some sort, you can start calling me Max von Schweinstein!

Clearly the family have some unresolved issues. The extended family in fact!
An episode like that just doesn't come out of the blue! Not for people who are so experienced, there has to be some unresolved tensions that surfaced here.
Have the Queens had episodes in the past where there was a visual tension between them?

Because this is bad!
This episode alone provides enough material for the gossip mags and online sites to discuss the "poor relation" between the two Queens for years!
I have seen comments about Queen Letizia and they shocked me. I thought Madeleine, Mary, Kate and now also Meghan and so on got some serious heat from time to time, but it's nothing compared to Queen Letizia IMO!
Even serious biographers will focus on this episode. It is after all rare you see senior royals have an argument in public.
So the Spanish RF cannot afford more episodes like this.

Having said all that, Marie-Chantal has disappointed me deeply.
As others have pointed out, even in a normal family, her comments online would be pretty noticeable to say the least!
Marie-Chantal IMO ought to be too professional and too experienced in royal etiquette to not immediately regret posting something like what she has tweeted. - Yet she hasn't...
And she wasn't even there and she wasn't personally involved!
And that leads me to conclude that the issues within the family go pretty deep. And keep in mind that Marie-Chantal married into the GRF, so I think it's safe to assume that her sentiment is at least shared with her husband.

So this is a bad day for the Spanish royals. No matter how much they smile in the years to come, even if their smiles are genuine, it will at best takes years before the public believe the two Queens are on good terms again.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

So the gist is that Letizia is just a mother who worries a lot about who approaches her daughters, who takes pictures of them, about their image, etc. She was reacting as a mother. Which I guess would be a reasonable reaction if a strange man had popped out of nowhere and was approaching one of the children. But what started this situation was a grandmother and a Queen of Spain agreeing to a request from apparently one of the photographers used by the royal house for a picture with her granddaughters, The Princess of Asturias and an Infanta of Spain. There is no reasonable explanation for Letizia refusing to let that happen. If Letizia’s concerns about her daughters and their image run that deep then, for her own sake but especially for the sake of her daughters, I hope she gets some help. Because the girls are rapidly approaching the age where all of this will be outside Letizia’s control entirely. In a few years she’ll wish her biggest problem was grandma trying to sneak a picture at Easter mass.

Letizia doesn’t seem to understand that her daughters don’t belong only to her. Leonor, especially, belongs to Spain as well. The couple and their daughters have no qualms about taking advantage of all the immense privileges this special status affords them. But when it’s time to give something back - like a nice picture of the girls with their grandmother at Easter, like a two word comment from Leonor about what she thought of a museum visit, like a photo session at Marivent that lasts longer than five minutes and doesn’t involve anyone looking surly and uptight - it’s just all too much.

BTW, it’s interesting that the friend gave this interview after speaking with Letizia since, as we’ve been assured multiple times on this very thread, Letizia doesn’t know how to play games or use the press to attempt to improve her image. Only Cristina and the evil people who care about Cristina engage in such low behaviour. And yet...

Exactly. I totally understand that they must have a million worries about their daughters, but in this situation ... it was only a picture with the grandmother, even if Sofia can be quite insisting, this is bread and butter and no harmful situation.

I wonder if this friend was 'instructed' to speak for Letizia.
https://as.com/tikitakas/2018/04/04/portada/1522852801_367803.html

 

[Juliette2]

Sadly this 'regrettable incident' will ensure that EVERY future appearance of Queens Letizia and Sofia together are pored over in the minutest detail for the tiniest signs of discord between them..
The children will 'cope', it is the King and the institution itself I most sorry for .
[Oh to be 'a fly on the Wall' at the Zarzuela when they all got home !]

Very true.

[Oh yes...].

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Why do you feel bad for The King and the institution?

there have been many situations when he seemed to be walking on eggshells since 2004, torn between his family and his wife. Letizia has been thrown under the bus many, many times unable to defend herself with the public watching.
I think that Letizia had to put up with a lot and Felipe has never publicly defended her with regard to the tabloid gossip or family pressure, that must have been difficult on the marriage.

 

[leidi]

My conclusion is that Queen Letizia initiated the "tense scene" by trying to obstruct Queen Sofia from getting pictures taken with her granddaughters, Sofia then escalated the matter by doubling down, and her doubling down was basically her tightening her grip on Leonor which resulted in Leonor, not once but twice, removing Sofia's hand. Note that Leonor did not resist her grandmother when her grandmother initially corralled her, but she did start resisting Sofia after Letizia became part of the scene, exchanged words with Sofia and Sofia tightened her grip on Leonor. It did not look like Leonor had hard feelings towards her grandmother and she approached / stayed close to her grandmother after the incident.

This

 

[Muhler]

I wonder if this friend was 'instructed' to speak for Letizia.
https://as.com/tikitakas/2018/04/04/portada/1522852801_367803.html

For those of us who are Spanish-challenged and don't trust Google translate that much, could someone please give us a summary in English? ?