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  #1461  
Old 04-15-2018, 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by leidi View Post
Exactly.
That's why she comes off as bored, stiff, stressed out in acts.
People pick that right off the bat and don't like it.
She never learned that in PUBLIC, having bad days all the time is not something she was allowed to.
In PRIVATE, she can do whatever she wants but when she's representing the Crown, she has to be willing and she doesn't appear that way a lot of times.
And if she had like one or two days of "meh" in her public appareances (she's human after all and no one can be perfect all the time) it would be fine but it's like 9/10 times she seemingly doesn't want to do what she has to do/wants to be at X place for her role
I know you don't like Letizia, but this statement is quite an exaggeration IMO. She didn't appear to be a jolly at every event, but neither did she not want to do what she has to do.
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  #1462  
Old 04-15-2018, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by donnaK View Post
I know you don't like Letizia, but this statement is quite an exaggeration IMO. She didn't appear to be a jolly at every event, but neither did she not want to do what she has to do.
I see her so stressed out, so stiff most of the time, I don't really see her relaxed like you see her counterparts in other countries and people pick on that, after all Sofa always looked perfectly at ease at her acts during the years she was the "reigining" Queen and Spaniards got used to that.

Felipe is less "jolly" than his father (and I prefer his style tbh, Juan Carlos was a bit too much for me at times) but he always seems relaxed and easy-going in his role, only looks a bit tense when he sees how stressed out she is at times.

And yes, I'm familiar with the fact that she didn't grow up in a royal family but neither did some of her counterparts and you see them seamlessly fitting into their roles without showing that tenseness, that stress, that stiffness she portrays at certain times-

(My favorite male royal, King Philippe of the Belgians is not exactly the most jolly of men, but Mathilde's presence in his life has given him a lot of confidence and actually lifts him up, helps with his popularity and has helped him shown a side of himself that people rarely see before).

I agree with someone up in the thread, I think she would have been happier if she continued being a journo or if she married another known man (a la Sara Carbonero or Pilar Rubio) where expectations weren't as high.
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  #1463  
Old 04-15-2018, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
if she married another known man
The exigencies of Love haven't allowed that in her case.. she and Don Felipe fell in Love, and the consequent marriage ended her old life, and made this new one, as Queen of Spain.
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  #1464  
Old 04-15-2018, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
The exigencies of Love haven't allowed that in her case.. she and Don Felipe fell in Love, and the consequent marriage ended her old life, and made this new one, as Queen of Spain.
If love was always enough, no one would ever get divorced
And royals have to make a love/brain match situation if possible.
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  #1465  
Old 04-15-2018, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by leidi View Post
I see her so stressed out, so stiff most of the time, I don't really see her relaxed like you see her counterparts in other countries and people pick on that, after all Sofa always looked perfectly at ease at her acts during the years she was the "reigining" Queen and Spaniards got used to that.

Felipe is less "jolly" than his father (and I prefer his style tbh, Juan Carlos was a bit too much for me at times) but he always seems relaxed and easy-going in his role, only looks a bit tense when he sees how stressed out she is at times.

And yes, I'm familiar with the fact that she didn't grow up in a royal family but neither did some of her counterparts and you see them seamlessly fitting into their roles without showing that tenseness, that stress, that stiffness she portrays at certain times-

(My favorite male royal, King Philippe of the Belgians is not exactly the most jolly of men, but Mathilde's presence in his life has given him a lot of confidence and actually lifts him up, helps with his popularity and has helped him shown a side of himself that people rarely see before).

I agree with someone up in the thread, I think she would have been happier if she continued being a journo or if she married another known man (a la Sara Carbonero or Pilar Rubio) where expectations weren't as high.
Of course you see what you want to see, from what I saw, she had normal events last week, the week before, two weeks before, don't see anything wrong with it. Maybe after the Palma incident, she had a bit stress, but it didn't affect the events. Letizia also helped Felipe improve his speech, his communication skills that are all essential for his kingship. Of course if some people don't want to see the improvement of Felipe, it's OK too.
Behind Mathilde's smile, I saw a very stressed person. I still remember at the time of her engagement, how young and lively she was, now she often dressed/looked like a 60-year-old.
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  #1466  
Old 04-15-2018, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donnaK View Post
Of course you see what you want to see, from what I saw, she had normal events last week, the week before, two weeks before, don't see anything wrong with it. Maybe after the Palma incident, she had a bit stress, but it didn't affect the events. Letizia also helped Felipe improve his speech, his communication skills that are all essential for his kingship. Of course if some people don't want to see the improvement of Felipe, it's OK too.
Behind Mathilde's smile, I saw a very stressed person. I still remember at the time of her engagement, how young and lively she was, now she often dressed/looked like a 60-year-old.
I don't think Letizia actually improved Felipe at all (in his role as Prince/King, I do think he's far much more grown since he got married, as a person), I've known him my entire life (literally speaking since I'm just a year younger than he is and I grew up in Spain) and he was always ready to be King, had a kind of "gravitas" since he was very young, always very aware of his role, always ready for whatever was thrown his way, he has always been great with people, specially with children, tend to put everyone at ease.

And by the stressed out part, I don't mean after the Palma incidents, I think at the beginning she was first (understandably) nervous, taking on a role that was completely new for her, that's a given and an "acclimatization" period was something everyone expected to happen.

Thing is, she's been stressed/stiff for 14 years now, doesn't really look comfortable and sometimes she can come off as "arrogant" because she tries to put out a veneer of confidence that doesn't seem to come from within.

And for Mathilde, I think it's deliberate on her part, Philippe has gone gray and the age difference is starting to show for real now, so she tries to look older (YUCK to the helmet hair tho ) to match him better, I like to see her make-up less in her holidays, she looked beautiful in the latest pictures we saw of her in Spain, enjoying life with her husband and children, I like that she's never out of place anywhere or doesn't look utterly stressed out when she has to go out and perform her role.
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  #1467  
Old 04-15-2018, 05:43 AM
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Leidi, we have to agree to disagree here since I don't want to run into circles. I didn't say Felipe need a big 'lift' from his wife like some other royal men, he surely didn't, but from what I saw, he did improve his speech a great deal, now he is able to make very good speeches, has a better communication skill.

I like Letizia's career woman energy (maybe at times she looked more like an official in some people's eyes, but I like it) over traditional wife mellowness, of course each to their own.
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  #1468  
Old 04-15-2018, 07:11 AM
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Although Letizia is usually fully prepared, you can seen that there are events where it shows that she is really happy to be there, usually her own causes, that she - I believe - approaches with a career woman attitude, while she more or less goes through the motion with the rest. I agree with Lady Finn, huge mistake to not let her have her own role in the beginning like other CPs but reduced her to Felipe’s accessory.
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  #1469  
Old 04-15-2018, 10:44 AM
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Didnt it take a long time for Queen Sofia to be embraced by the Spaniards? Wasnt it mentioned, even by her that her natural expression looked dour to most, something she shared with Queen Elizabeth and was off putting for some? Didnt it take nearly 30 years to become endeared to the Spanish public? The same with Queen Victoria Eugenia. If this is true, then Queen Letizia has time. Spain seems tough on its Queen Consorts.
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  #1470  
Old 04-15-2018, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by DMR412 View Post
Didnt it take a long time for Queen Sofia to be embraced by the Spaniards? Wasnt it mentioned, even by her that her natural expression looked dour to most, something she shared with Queen Elizabeth and was off putting for some? Didnt it take nearly 30 years to become endeared to the Spanish public? The same with Queen Victoria Eugenia. If this is true, then Queen Letizia has time. Spain seems tough on its Queen Consorts.
Good points. Especially the off putting 'dour expression'. So much of the Letizia dislike seems to be based on similar physical mannerisms, though tbh whenever I see Letizia in pictures she looks fine to me, always with a pleasant smile or facial expression, which is why this critique puzzles me.
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  #1471  
Old 04-15-2018, 01:07 PM
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A marriage...

... is ideally between two people who love and are in love. Surely it is better for Spain and its people to have a stable couple at the top of the Monarchy, after all those years of a marriage in name only.
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  #1472  
Old 04-16-2018, 02:02 PM
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This thread has been cleaned up & is now reopened.
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  #1473  
Old 06-03-2018, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by donnaK View Post
(...) but this statement is quite an exaggeration IMO. She didn't appear to be a jolly at every event, but neither did she not want to do what she has to do.
I think with Letizia it's easy to find pictures that can be misused for a certain context because in general she has serious/expressive gestures. Of course those pictures can be found of any royal but the 'fun' that is made of them is probably not as much attached to an agenda as with Letizia, simply because the SRF never complains or sues the press. When the press moaned about Letizia looking too serious, first her face started to transform (the nasolabial lines disappeard), later on, these days or especially since when she became Queen, she just smiles all the time (like the MIL) but very often it is obvious that the smile is just a mask to be perfect what looks fake.

IMO the mess at Easter Mass is a result of never reigning in the press and not giving Letizia the role she deserved as future Queen, from the very beginning.

I am wondering what Felipe's role is in all of this, there might be the argument that at the beginning he did not have the power to prevent his parents from denying Letizia a role/throwing her under the bus but now that he is King (or has been since 2014) I still don't see much improvement of Letizia's role or giving it more importance. The girls have grown, she could do much more for her image or fields of interests.

Even worse, after the mass event, Felipe publicly sided with his mother, Letizia had to walk to Canossa so to say, open the car door for her MIL who took center stage in front of the hospital and got the take her granddaughters by their hands and pose with them (what Letizia possibly wanted to deny her in church), I found this painful to watch.

Felipe is King now, he could have played out this more subtle or differently but he chose not to, gave his mother 100% compensation for (obviously) being wronged at church, now even the last person will have to believe that Letizia was the only culprit in the situation (and Leonor who had to pose again properly).

IMO this was a great disservice from Felipe with regard to the image of his wife and Queen.
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  #1474  
Old 06-03-2018, 02:01 PM
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Totally agree with you DOM, IMHO King Felipe has dropped to almost zero, he has shown little support for his wife and the mother of his children. To me now he appears as a weak minded mamma's boy.
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  #1475  
Old 06-03-2018, 03:58 PM
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Unfortunately, Sofia has the absolute favor of the press whatever she does... they have created the stereotype of the poor victim of the unfaithful husband and the evil daughter-in-law ... and it is being very profitable for the press and very beneficial for her.

Queen Sofa could have said something to a friendly journalist to reduce the polemic, just as she has friends in the press to be photographed in her private outings or when she wants to defend Cristina. King Felipe is being subjected to a lot of pressure by his family, especially Queen Sofia, because they know that it is possible that Urdangarin will enter prison soon and the effort to wash the image of Cristina is constant, and they even use friendly press to do it.

Queen Letizia has no chance to win ... I also think that what happened in the hospital was an error, they thought that this way they could stop the earthquake... but the only thing they did was make things worse (Zarzuela's team should definitely land in the 21st century). King Felipe allowed Letizia to be exposed, but also the girls who are old enough to notice things. Unfortunately for him this must be normal, because it is what his family has taught him to do all his life.

But at this point, Letizia knows she must win her battles... so I just hope that she has gained something of all this.
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  #1476  
Old 06-03-2018, 05:10 PM
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I don't see the drama in opening the car door for your 79 y/o mother-in-law TBH.

Queen Sofia reduced the polemic by appearing with the family at the hospital and later with the female members of the family and Letizia's mother at a musical.

IMHO babbling to the press is something that is best avoided for all royals, including Queen Sofia.

I am quite sure that the court is well aware that the hospital theatre play would receive a backlash. But what other options did they have? Pictures say more than words. If they consistently keep this message up -of both Queens appearing side by side in a harmonious way- some of it will trickle down over time.
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  #1477  
Old 06-03-2018, 05:40 PM
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The Spanish monarchy, although relatively secure under the present constitution, is nonetheless walking on shaky grounds. Close to 40 % of the population now say that a republic would make the country better and a new PM who is openly republican and relies on the support of republican parties has just been sworn in. Although Pedro Sanchez has said that a powerless constitutional monarch is a good compromise between the monarchist and the republican positions, he also said he wants to promote constitutional reform and that, in the process of reforming the constitution, no issues will be off the table, including the system of government.

Letizia is a relatively unpopular Queen consort and, in the Mallorca incident specifically, public opinion seems to have sided with Queen Sofia to the point that people were openly calling for Felipe to divorce Letizia and she was being heckled at public events. With the monarchy under threat, and given the current circumstances, it is hardly surprising to me that Felipe would side with Queen Sofia too and more or less force Letizia to do what she did in public outside the hospital.

It doesn’t help either that Letizia hides her daughters, especially Princess Leonor, from the public, thus preventing them from establishing a connection with the people in the way for example the Swedish, Danish and even Belgian royal children do in their respective countries.
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  #1478  
Old 06-03-2018, 05:47 PM
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Letizia has been much wronged since the beginning of her marriage. She is certainly not the best person in the world and she has also made her mistakes. But it was not well received by the royal family at first and was even sometimes humiliated by members of the royal family.
Besides, most Spaniards do not like her and are against her, and Letizia knows that. She was never popular.
All this made Letizia more defensive and becomes colder in public. Letizia's only support is her husband, her daughters, her parents, and her small group of friends. She has never had an easy life since she married and always had many people against her.
What happened at the Easter mass is certainly due to the immense pressure that Letizia has on her. I think Sofia and Letizia have always tried to have a good relationship, but they were never really friends. And at that moment something failed and they broke, but it was not just Letizia's fault ...
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  #1479  
Old 06-03-2018, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The Spanish monarchy, although relatively secure under the present constitution, is nonetheless walking on shaky grounds. Close to 40 % of the population now say that a republic would make the country better and a new PM who is openly republican and relies on the support of republican parties has just been sworn in. Although Pedro Sanchez has said that a powerless constitutional monarch is a good compromise between the monarchist and the republican positions, he also said he wants to promote constitutional reform and that, in the process of reforming the constitution, no issues will be off the table, including the system of government.

Letizia is a relatively unpopular Queen consort and, in the Mallorca incident specifically, public opinion seems to have sided with Queen Sofia to the point that people were openly calling for Felipe to divorce Letizia and she was being heckled at public events. With the monarchy under threat, and given the current circumstances, it is hardly surprising to me that Felipe would side with Queen Sofia too and more or less force Letizia to do what she did in public outside the hospital.

It doesnt help either that Letizia hides her daughters, especially Princess Leonor, from the public, thus preventing them from establishing a connection with the people in the way for example the Swedish, Danish and even Belgian royal children do in their respective countries.


Why is it assumed that Queen Letizia is hiding the Princess and Infanta? King Felipe is the girls parent too. Im sure the decision to limit the girls public exposure was made jointly. Once again, Letizia is blamed for something that is probably not her fault.
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  #1480  
Old 06-03-2018, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The Spanish monarchy, although relatively secure under the present constitution, is nonetheless walking on shaky grounds. Close to 40 % of the population now say that a republic would make the country better and a new PM who is openly republican and relies on the support of republican parties has just been sworn in. Although Pedro Sanchez has said that a powerless constitutional monarch is a good compromise between the monarchist and the republican positions, he also said he wants to promote constitutional reform and that, in the process of reforming the constitution, no issues will be off the table, including the system of government.

Letizia is a relatively unpopular Queen consort and, in the Mallorca incident specifically, public opinion seems to have sided with Queen Sofia to the point that people were openly calling for Felipe to divorce Letizia and she was being heckled at public events. With the monarchy under threat, and given the current circumstances, it is hardly surprising to me that Felipe would side with Queen Sofia too and more or less force Letizia to do what she did in public outside the hospital.

It doesnt help either that Letizia hides her daughters, especially Princess Leonor, from the public, thus preventing them from establishing a connection with the people in the way for example the Swedish, Danish and even Belgian royal children do in their respective countries.
The Spanish monarchy is quite safe. The new PM may want to make a constitutional reform but this will hardly affect the monarchy. The majority of the parliament supports the present constitution and the monarchy and the majority of the Spaniards also supports the monarchy even those that are not monarchical.
King Philip VI is also very popular.
In the Spanish press never spoke much of a possible divorce of the current Kings of Spain, the international press is that it spoke much of it. But it will hardly happen.
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