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  #1221  
Old 04-07-2018, 03:17 AM
lula's Avatar
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Queen Letizia loves her daughters and it is evident that the girls have a great complicity and affection with their mother, repeat a thousand times with bad intentions random images with a bad gesture ... it only says something about who does it and not about Letizia.

When Felipe was a child, in Spain there was one television, Spain just got out of Francoism and the press was still quite controlled... the two situations can not be more opposite. Felipe has expressed more than once to journalists, that he does not want for his daughters, the exposed childhood that he had. And more than once it has been said, that he is even more than Letizia who wants to protect his daughters.

A few years ago the persecution of the children of politicians and celebrities became so worrying that the then Prime Minister, Zapatero, to protect his own daughters supported a law so that at least 18 years the press had to cover the face of children. This rule was never applied to the children of the Royal Family.

Imagine how desperate this was for the press, that now when those children who had a pixilated face turn 18, they discount the days and on the day they turn 18, the press publish the whole collection of photos from childhood showing their faces. It is very scary.

Felipe Marichalar is the example of what happens when parents and grandparents do not control the public exhibitions of a child ... that the press makes it the object of attacks and ridicule. I do not call him Froilán because it is known that he hates it.

The tantrums of the child not corrected in public and always picked up by the media, were followed by ridicule at school ... and in the end the child increasingly rebelled and the press each time attacked more. The boy was a bad student and the press was in no hurry to say that he suspended all the subjects. Since the boy turned 18 years, he is the subject of constant persecution of the press, eager to capture each of his mistakes... and he will continue to be rebellious with the press, because since childhood he has learned to fear and hate it.

Felipe and Letizia have always known what the situation was with the Spanish press, and that they had to protect their daughters until they had a certain age and maturity to understand things, because they were going to have to live with it all their lives and hate it from childhood, it would not do them any favors.

Leonor turned 12 in October, and with her first official photo her parents took the step to show that it was time for her to begin to have more prominence, and this happened in January with the delivery of the Golden Fleece. Probably, if what happened and the attacks that the girl is receiving does not mean that the parents regret, this year we will see Leonor practicing as a Princess in Asturias.

In any case, what happened at the Mass had nothing to do with protecting them from the press, because the photographer was private. That the Spanish press turns it into that, is a sample of the extent to which the Spanish press is obsessed with the issue, and that despite the law, the issue of protecting children does not interest them.

Obviously these situations would never happen in the Netherlands, and if they happened in Norway it would take two seconds to make a complaint public.
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  #1222  
Old 04-07-2018, 03:42 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
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I thought she looked nervous and no one knows what happens behind closed doors. Hope it blows over soon
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  #1223  
Old 04-07-2018, 03:49 AM
HighnessN's Avatar
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4I have seen a number of suggestions about Leonor being seen more to help with PR.

I have mixed feelings about this.
1. I do not think its fair on the Princess to be the one used to improve PR after this mess. Although it might help the monarchy, dont think it would help the 2 Queens.
I believe the best PR for this mess should be the main people involved working on their images, especially Queen Letizia (as she is the one getting the blunt of the negativity).

2. As future queen however, Leonor does need to be seen in public but thats for her parents to decide how to go about this. As a lot of people have pointed out, from events after her 12th birthday, it seems like thats the plan. I got the feeling that she is being groomed and the speech Felipe gave to her was about her taking her first steps into her future role.

I have always been a firm believer of placing the needs of royal children first and allowing their parents to raise them the best way that they can. I know the balance is difficult to find or even define. We have had numerous debates on here about access to children. Its either we complain some royal kids are too hidden or others are over expossed. So clearly, its a difficult, undefined balance.
The most important thing is that the children grow up to be emotionally stable adults
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  #1224  
Old 04-07-2018, 04:03 AM
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Thank you, Lula.

Why don't the Spanish readers tell the press to back off? I cannot imagine any parent accepting their own children getting such a treatment.

The only thing the press fear are their reader's purses.

In this day and age it only takes a couple of days to start a boycott of a specific magazine that has crossed the line, or to subject the same magazine to a, pardon me, sh*tstorm. It happens all the time online.
In extreme cases go for the editors and magazine owners themselves, the second the editors leave their homes they risk having a photo of them online a few seconds later 24/7. That's hell on earth! But they are public figures, so surely they can't object?

In short: The Spaniards have the gutter-press they deserve. So it's up to you to change that, because the press won't!
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  #1225  
Old 04-07-2018, 04:12 AM
Muhler's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighnessN View Post
4I have seen a number of suggestions about Leonor being seen more to help with PR.

I have mixed feelings about this.
1. I do not think its fair on the Princess to be the one used to improve PR after this mess. Although it might help the monarchy, dont think it would help the 2 Queens.
I believe the best PR for this mess should be the main people involved working on their images, especially Queen Letizia (as she is the one getting the blunt of the negativity).

2. As future queen however, Leonor does need to be seen in public but thats for her parents to decide how to go about this. As a lot of people have pointed out, from events after her 12th birthday, it seems like thats the plan. I got the feeling that she is being groomed and the speech Felipe gave to her was about her taking her first steps into her future role.

I have always been a firm believer of placing the needs of royal children first and allowing their parents to raise them the best way that they can. I know the balance is difficult to find or even define. We have had numerous debates on here about access to children. Its either we complain some royal kids are too hidden or others are over expossed. So clearly, its a difficult, undefined balance.
The most important thing is that the children grow up to be emotionally stable adults
It's not fair at all!
But the SRF are running out of PR-cards to play.
And even worse, Leonor (a child!!) is getting some real heat here as well!

I don't care about Queens Sofia (Not Sonia. Darned auto function!) and Letizia, they are adults, but Leonor is about to begin one of the most difficult phases of her life, while on top of that also genuinely starting to being prepared for a life as a working royal.
Starting out being unpopular among considerable segments of the population is in no way a good start!
So sorry, Leonor don't have that luxury anymore. The adults closest to her have just ensured her sheltered life has ended.
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  #1226  
Old 04-07-2018, 04:27 AM
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From all that has come about over this Easter situation I honestly think Lenore is the one that will bear the brunt of it all. I just feel so sorry for this child and there is no way I would ever want any child to go through their entire life like this all because of the media and the hate that is out there. If I was Felipe there is no way she would be heir, with this why would anyone want their child to suffer at the hands of the media and the trolls day in and day out..........Felipe even though he is devoted to Spain, either find someone else to be heir or just pick up and leave the country with your family for good......who needs this in their life?

In today's world the media has the influence to create so much good and it does just the opposite, they manipulate the public all in the name of money and greed.
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  #1227  
Old 04-07-2018, 04:33 AM
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For most Spaniards this does not make sense, and they take it totally as a joke.

But there is a Spanish sector in social networks, and in general on the Internet that is brutal, which uses them to deposit all their hatred and frustrations. It is also a sign of the degeneration that has dragged the Spanish press for years.

This has come at a time of very close emotions, when people are oversaturated with the Catalan problem and this has been an escape route.

The television that prompted the controversy is a Catalan television, its owners are Mediaset which produces the most yellowish and gossip programs in Spain and a powerful Catalan group that has supported the independence ... the worst mix.
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  #1228  
Old 04-07-2018, 05:11 AM
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I dunno if this video is already up here:

https://www.elespanol.com/corazon/ca...7721053_0.html

Felipe is trying to remove Letizia from the frame there.
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  #1229  
Old 04-07-2018, 05:14 AM
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Question for you and as we all know here your strong dislike of Letizia, why did you put this up? To show what? Just a bit curious why someone, anyone still wants to burn Letizia at the stake.....
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  #1230  
Old 04-07-2018, 05:19 AM
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It is definitely not a good situation, but obviously, I don't see quite what others are seeing since Infanta Leonor is getting bad PR and the Queens are ill-mannered.

I would ask any normal person to look at their 12-year-old daughter and think to themselves what they saw. Me, I saw a young girl sick and tired of being manhandled like a puppet. It was almost a "for the love of God, stop grabbing me".

In public arena's such as Easter Mass, the area was so well secured there was no need for anyone to manhandle either child. They could have walked out behind their parents and smiled and waved to the people. Instead, it's always a photo op and you stand and you smile the way you have been told.

Most royal children, within the security bubble, move around freely but these Infantas looked like stars at the Oscar's . . . stand there with Mother, smile, turn and smile again . . . to the private photographer. Their mother always seems to have one of both by the arm, manoeuvring, positioning them. Not holding her lovely daughter's hand but moving the set piece. And those set pieces are still dressed so as to think they are the same age, like bookends!

Hell, if I was Leonor I would be tempted to stand and scream "I am a real person, I am Infanta Leonor, Princess of the Asturias and I'm too old to have to dress like my little sister and to have to have my mother hold my hand all the time".

Really, those squabbling Queens and gutless Kings in the face of those Queens, are not a good look for the Spanish royal family. King Felipe needs to control his wife and his mother, and allow the people of Spain to see their heir, to find what makes her smile, to see her as she is, The Princess of the Asturias and cheer for her.

The Princess of the Asturias had the official ceremonial presentation of the Order of the Golden Fleece, in private. Why is she not allowed to stand and wave to the people on her own?
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  #1231  
Old 04-07-2018, 05:25 AM
lula's Avatar
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  #1232  
Old 04-07-2018, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M. Payton View Post

Question for you and as we all know here your strong dislike of Letizia, why did you put this up? To show what? Just a bit curious why someone, anyone still wants to burn Letizia at the stake.....
There are A LOT of people here who seemingly love her and I don't see you complaining about that when they post things that defend her

Always two sides in each discussion I believe, there are people who defend her and there are people who will not do so.

Each part has the right to be heard, don't you think? Then everyone in the forum can make their own opinion on the subject.

When Felipe introduced Letizia to the public, I was pretty much ok with her but it is her attitude through the years that has put me off her more and more and more, I was not against her from the beginning but opinions change.

For example: I used to like Juan Carlos quite a bit but the last few years really put me off him when I finally researched and learned about everything he's done, I was actually relieved when he abdicated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
It is definitely not a good situation, but obviously, I don't see quite what others are seeing since Infanta Leonor is getting bad PR and the Queens are ill-mannered.

I would ask any normal person to look at their 12-year-old daughter and think to themselves what they saw. Me, I saw a young girl sick and tired of being manhandled like a puppet. It was almost a "for the love of God, stop grabbing me".

In public arena's such as Easter Mass, the area was so well secured there was no need for anyone to manhandle either child. They could have walked out behind their parents and smiled and waved to the people. Instead, it's always a photo op and you stand and you smile the way you have been told.

Most royal children, within the security bubble, move around freely but these Infantas looked like stars at the Oscar's . . . stand there with Mother, smile, turn and smile again . . . to the private photographer. Their mother always seems to have one of both by the arm, manoeuvring, positioning them. Not holding her lovely daughter's hand but moving the set piece. And those set pieces are still dressed so as to think they are the same age, like bookends!

Hell, if I was Leonor I would be tempted to stand and scream "I am a real person, I am Infanta Leonor, Princess of the Asturias and I'm too old to have to dress like my little sister and to have to have my mother hold my hand all the time".

Really, those squabbling Queens and gutless Kings in the face of those Queens, are not a good look for the Spanish royal family. King Felipe needs to control his wife and his mother, and allow the people of Spain to see their heir, to find what makes her smile, to see her as she is, The Princess of the Asturias and cheer for her.


The Princess of the Asturias had the official ceremonial presentation of the Order of the Golden Fleece, in private. Why is she not allowed to stand and wave to the people on her own?
THIS!
They have to start showing Leonor as the next link in the monarchy, JC & Sofía did that excellently with Felipe, at an even younger age than Leonor is now, it's time for the people to get to know her a little more, she still needs her space and to grow up in relative peace but being a great unknown to the people will do her more harm than good in the long run, it's better that she learns that all the privileges she enjoys come with a price.
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  #1233  
Old 04-07-2018, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M. Payton View Post
If I was Felipe there is no way she would be heir, with this why would anyone want their child to suffer at the hands of the media and the trolls day in and day out..........Felipe even though he is devoted to Spain, either find someone else to be heir or just pick up and leave the country with your family for good......who needs this in their life?

In today's world the media has the influence to create so much good and it does just the opposite, they manipulate the public all in the name of money and greed.
why would he want anyone but his daughter to be the heir? that's the whole point of hereditary monarcy, to provide a stable family background for the leader of the country, and to provide an orderly and secure succession.
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  #1234  
Old 04-07-2018, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M. Payton View Post
Both women made mistakes, both are to be held accountable for their behavior and yet only Sofia is getting a pass for her bad and rude behavior.e.
Queen Sofia was neither rude or bad. Not just in that incident, but never. That cannot be said for the spouse of the current monarch.
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  #1235  
Old 04-07-2018, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by M. Payton View Post

All this uproar has been about Letizia only and the backlash from the people of Spain and here is beyond being nasty to the point some are telling Felipe to divorce his wife....what nerve does anyone have to say that to another person is unbelievably cruel and hateful. I have followed Letizia from day 1 of her engagement and have read how she has been treated by the media, the trolls, her inlaws and her own family all because they thought she married a cash cow so to speak......Sofia has gotten a pass for her behavior, all because she is the *former queen* and has worked her entire life for Spain, if she had *waited* a few seconds till her granddaughter finished shaking that lady's hand and then motioned her over then I honestly believe nothing would have happened.
Letizia's reaction had nothing to do with a concern that Sofia was preventing the girls from greeting other people or that taking a picture inside the church (which BTW wouldn't take more than a minute) would be inappropriate. When they had already left the church and were standing alone at the door, Sofia tried a second time to get a picture with the girls and Letizia once again blocked it. So, it's clear to me that Letizia's problem was with a 79-year-old grandmother taking a picture for private use only with her two granddaughters, whom she rarely seems, on a special family occasion. I don't see how anyone can defend that attitude as "reasonable".

The Spanish people is not biased; they are just being sensible.
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  #1236  
Old 04-07-2018, 07:13 AM
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In terms of the reactions, overall I conclude that, fairly or unfairly, Letizia is unpopular and Sofia is popular, and, rightly or wrongly, most are siding with Sofia over the Easter incident. Beyond that I am reluctant to put too much stock in specific comments that harshly criticize Leonore, or calls for Felipe and Letizia to divorce.

I know often that Brits weigh in and caution us against judging the British people, their values and opinions, based on comments made in the Daily Mail, and I suspect that the same may apply here when it comes to the Spanish people. I am sure that the Spanish royal house has pollsters, and yeah if long-term research shows that Leonor is disliked (which I doubt), or that the disapproval of the monarchy is at an unacceptable level, and that disapproval is tied to certain members not being well thought of, then corrective action is needed.

If it turns out that some kind of initiative is needed to buck up the Spanish monarchy, I actually think that Sofia is the one who needs to be the cornerstone of that effort in the immediate future, with Leonor being gradually integrated in. It looks like Leonor becoming a more visible member of the royal family was already in the works.
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  #1237  
Old 04-07-2018, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
Queen Sofia was neither rude or bad. Not just in that incident, but never. That cannot be said for the spouse of the current monarch.
What NEVER? She never does anything rude or bad? that seems to make her perfect which I doubt.
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  #1238  
Old 04-07-2018, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
What NEVER? She never does anything rude or bad? that seems to make her perfect which I doubt.
I am sure that you are very well aware, that I was referring to the public sphere.

But alas, I have yet to read a single viable argument in favor of the current monarch's spouse.
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  #1239  
Old 04-07-2018, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
a single viable argument
She is his LEGAL wife, and therefore the Queen of Spain. You may not approve of her, but undeniably she is THE Queen. That is her 'viability'...
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  #1240  
Old 04-07-2018, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post

i was annoyed by little Princess gesture before i saw that now i understand she had enough of all the touchy gestures of the adults and above all fighting over her head not nice scence at all again the adults should now better.
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