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  #1201  
Old 04-06-2018, 08:01 PM
M. Payton's Avatar
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Oh Lord....!!

I will ask again....where are her friends/defenders??!!!

ETA: Okay. I read the entire thing...not as negative as I thought it would be. But she's definitely pro-Sofia.
Moonmaiden, I hope that all of Letizia's defenders *never say a word* for when saying a word that gets on social media that can never be taken back ever. That right there shows Letizia just who her enemies are and who her friends are..........Let her enemies talk, shout, threaten, yell, scream and do whatever just do not come near her for then hell will break lose and they will be in deep pooooo doooooo. We have already seen who these enemies are, they are front and center.....let them for eventually it will come back to them in a big way.....mark my word that what goes around comes around....Letizia has had years of dealing with this crap, decades in fact......she has got resolve by the bus loads.....more power to her for as long as she keeps quiet no one can say she said anything about the Easter situation......and Felipe should take his family, the people he grew up with and when they come calling again, lock that door and do not answer that phone ever...backstabbers you do not need in your life ever!
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  #1202  
Old 04-06-2018, 08:22 PM
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I was SHOCKED to read in the New York Times that this story was in the top four stories viewed and commented on in their on-line version around the world. Why has this garnered so much interest? Because the royal masks slipped? Because two women fighting is the FAVORITE story line of any gossip show/tabloid? Because it reminds us of our own family squabbles?


Memories of my own bossy mil came to mind. Yes, I loved her, but her controlling bossy manner, and my deference to her because of her age, irritated me. Luckily nobody was taking videos of us.


I agree with Muhler that Felipe is to blame for the tension between the two women. Now he has to do something. Both women were wrong but in the videos I saw, Sofia appeared aggressive. I do believe her blind mother's love for Christina and anger in her ostracism has added rocket fuel to any normal family tensions.


I can attest to Q Sofia's quick, aggressive physicality because I almost literally ran into Queen Sofia in a NYC department store, Bonwit Tellers, God bless it, in the 1980s. It was an off time of day, in an uncrowded part of the store, handbags or scarves, and I was mesmerized by the goods on the counters. I felt a woman who was moving too quickly, darting about, talking, and looked up to almost touch the back of an elegantly dressed lady. She vigorously turned and I recognized her as I had just come back from living in Europe. I looked around and froze. The entire counter was surrounded by not very subtle bodyguards. I slowly made my retreat. But her strange quick movements, unlike her sister Irene who was there also, stayed with me.
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  #1203  
Old 04-06-2018, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
To me it all boils down to Letizia being too controlling of her daughters. This clip is an incident I talked about earlier, at the ceremony of abdication Letizia glared at the girls and told them how to set their hands to sit "properly". At the time I thought it was kinda charming Letizia wanted them to sit properly. But looking at it again, its another example of her being controlling of her girls and their image. When you look at the clip there is nothing wrong with the way either of the girls are sitting so why 'correct' them?
Same with the gif I posted earlier:

https://j.gifs.com/Oy2nwQ.gif

Leonor wasn't even 5 when that happened and look how Letizia manhandled her

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Yes, I remember this very well and that death glare stayed with me.

It wouldn't have bothered me nearly so much if it was countered with images of the Infantitas playing, laughing, giggling, throwing a tantrum romping with their pets(do those poor girls even have a pet??! )and being as spontaneous and charming as you often see the Royal children of Britain, Sweden, Belgium and Denmark.

But I don't remember ever seeing those images from Leo and Sofia. Every beautiful hair in place, impeccably dressed, and looking perfectly under control in every photograph.

Just like their mother.
That is exactly what I thought, yet another moment of Letizia being super controlling, like when she didn't allow Sofía to give anise candy to the girls because she's in "obsessed with their nutrition"

She is too much of a perfectionist when it comes to the girls, too controlling and that doesn't seem to be good for them long term, they are never shown enjoying a walk with their dogs or with their hair all over their faces after playing, it's all about calculated perfection.

I have never seen a picture of them like THIS or THIS or THIS or even like THIS

Instead you see THIS or THIS or THIS or THIS
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  #1204  
Old 04-06-2018, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
Do not push me Sofía!
Disrespectful and aggressive. What was the point of that?
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  #1205  
Old 04-07-2018, 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted by leidi View Post
Same with the gif I posted earlier:

https://j.gifs.com/Oy2nwQ.gif

Leonor wasn't even 5 when that happened and look how Letizia manhandled her



That is exactly what I thought, yet another moment of Letizia being super controlling, like when she didn't allow Sofía to give anise candy to the girls because she's in "obsessed with their nutrition"

She is too much of a perfectionist when it comes to the girls, too controlling and that doesn't seem to be good for them long term, they are never shown enjoying a walk with their dogs or with their hair all over their faces after playing, it's all about calculated perfection.

I have never seen a picture of them like THIS or THIS or THIS or even like THIS

Instead you see THIS or THIS or THIS or THIS
Oh because that is a fair comparison right

On one hand you are posting 'private family pictures' though other then the mud puddle picture, they are highly staged and the kids look just as well groomed and well controlled as you accuse Leonor and Sofia of being.

And on the other hand photos of Leonor and Sofia at very formal events. What do you expect, them to be running around like little hooligans, flashing people and jumping in mud puddles at military parades???? Seriously.

I'd be more worried about her parenting if her 10 year old acted like a toddler and was running around like Estelle or Leonor of Sweden, at those events. They are old enough to know better.

As for candy and such, all we have is some bad press and rumors.


How horrible Letizia and FELIPE (last I looked she wasn't raising these kids alone) keep the private lives of their kids private. How many people are outraged when the privacy of the Cambridge kids are interrupted.

But even in public shows you still see the happy kids. If you bother to look, which I can see for you, might be hard.

Leonor doing a good interpretation of Leonor Sweden at baptisms
https://www.gettyimages.ca/event/bap...ure-id75424697

https://ca.hellomagazine.com/royalty...thday-facts/2/

https://www.google.ca/search?q=princ...Tce8x6uTo2O5M:

Or all the other photos you ignored from the photo shoot, where she is in red plaid dress, and picked only the one looking controlled. All the ones where they are smiling and laughing with dad. Behind the scenes of a shoot

The Royal Children: Spanish RF: Princess Leonor and Infanta Sofia on a new video for King Felipe's 50th birthday

But yes, they are clearly miserable children being controlled to within an inch of their life by their over bearing mother. And their father obviously is a deadbeat, as he seems to have no control over how they are raised.
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  #1206  
Old 04-07-2018, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Oh because that is a fair comparison right

On one hand you are posting 'private family pictures' though other then the mud puddle picture, they are highly staged and the kids look just as well groomed and well controlled as you accuse Leonor and Sofia of being.

And on the other hand photos of Leonor and Sofia at very formal events. What do you expect, them to be running around like little hooligans, flashing people and jumping in mud puddles at military parades???? Seriously.

I'd be more worried about her parenting if her 10 year old acted like a toddler and was running around like Estelle or Leonor of Sweden, at those events. They are old enough to know better.

As for candy and such, all we have is some bad press and rumors.


How horrible Letizia and FELIPE (last I looked she wasn't raising these kids alone) keep the private lives of their kids private. How many people are outraged when the privacy of the Cambridge kids are interrupted.

But even in public shows you still see the happy kids. If you bother to look, which I can see for you, might be hard.

Leonor doing a good interpretation of Leonor Sweden at baptisms
https://www.gettyimages.ca/event/bap...ure-id75424697

https://ca.hellomagazine.com/royalty...thday-facts/2/

https://www.google.ca/search?q=princ...Tce8x6uTo2O5M:

Or all the other photos you ignored from the photo shoot, where she is in red plaid dress, and picked only the one looking controlled. All the ones where they are smiling and laughing with dad. Behind the scenes of a shoot

The Royal Children: Spanish RF: Princess Leonor and Infanta Sofia on a new video for King Felipe's 50th birthday

But yes, they are clearly miserable children being controlled to within an inch of their life by their over bearing mother. And their father obviously is a deadbeat, as he seems to have no control over how they are raised.
I think you missed the point entirely.

We had all these "informal" pictures of Felipe and his sisters growing up, doing as normal as possible in the circumstances they were dealt.

We don't get them from Leonor and Sofía and Letizia ALWAYS has to be there, I can't remember the last time I saw the girls out with only their father (I do remember tons of those of Felipe and his sisters with BOTH parents growing up).

Everything around these girls is so staged, so artificial and it's not their fault, I am sure they are lovely and that given the opportunity they would shine and breathe some life into the Spanish monarchy but so far they haven't.

What's the problem on seeing them doing some "normal" activities (playing, at school, coloring, at their hobbies) every once in a while?

They won't grow up traumatized because of that and people might actually start seeing them in a better light (like it happened for a lot of us with JC & Sofía's family growing up).

Leonor should definitely be seen more with her father (sans her mother) to drive home even further the purpose of the continuity of the monarchy, together they can be an asset for it and I hope the Casa Real PR can see that.
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  #1207  
Old 04-07-2018, 01:41 AM
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Are you within the household to actually see how they are being raised by their parents? I question the viciousness that I see directed at Queen Letizia all the time. All royal families have private lives and these events are Jobs that they do for the country, they are not on call to be walking robots all the time. I have seen pictures of the girls with both parents, so why the questions with their mother being there with them? Letizia for heaven's sake is *Their Mother* not a babysitter. I applaud any royal family in wanting their children to be just that.....*children* when growing up.

I sense that there is hostility here toward Letizia that is going out of bounds in the sense of decency. Who Felipe married is nobody's business but his own for after all he has to live with her.....so what are the problems with Letizia that has some here in such an uproar it is becoming questionable?
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  #1208  
Old 04-07-2018, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by M. Payton View Post

Are you within the household to actually see how they are being raised by their parents? I question the viciousness that I see directed at Queen Letizia all the time. All royal families have private lives and these events are Jobs that they do for the country, they are not on call to be walking robots all the time. I have seen pictures of the girls with both parents, so why the questions with their mother being there with them? Letizia for heaven's sake is *Their Mother* not a babysitter. I applaud any royal family in wanting their children to be just that.....*children* when growing up.

I sense that there is hostility here toward Letizia that is going out of bounds in the sense of decency. Who Felipe married is nobody's business but his own for after all he has to live with her.....so what are the problems with Letizia that has some here in such an uproar it is becoming questionable?
I am not talking about the fact that they are being/not being raised by their parents, I am no one to say yes or no to that question, it's their problem, not mine.

I'm talking about the public perception of the girls being TOO kept out of public eye and always in staged things, never in more natural settings where they are seen as children, we saw that with their father when he was growing up, why not with them? Is the Casa Real PR department really that inept?

And what I'm talking about is that you never see Felipe out alone with the girls, while we have seen Letizia doing so, it's under the Crown's interest for the monarch to be seen out and about with his children, specially since they are his direct heirs, Juan Carlos was always seen with his children out, sailing or doing other activities with them, without Sofía present. And the other way around as well.

In my opinion they are terribly advised, not gaining any friends with what happens and they don't weather storms well either, which impacts Felipe's image directly.
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  #1209  
Old 04-07-2018, 02:05 AM
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What storms haven't the girls with stood? I saw both weather Easter better then their mother and grandmother, so what event did they mess up I wonder?

Both girls from all the pictures over the years have been very well behaved in events and have shown that they are learning royal protocol. I have never seen them misbehave what so ever and if you have pictures of them doing such please pass them along to us here.

Some royal children have run around crying wanting things in an event where they should be quiet and more peaceful, not these girls. Both parents I believe are doing a fabulous job of raising them yet who here are we to say how that should be done for we are not part of the family of Felipe/Letizia.
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  #1210  
Old 04-07-2018, 02:08 AM
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Posts about the British royal family have been deleted, as announced in the mod. warning in post #1155.
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  #1211  
Old 04-07-2018, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by M. Payton View Post
What storms haven't the girls with stood? I saw both weather Easter better then their mother and grandmother, so what event did they mess up I wonder?

Both girls from all the pictures over the years have been very well behaved in events and have shown that they are learning royal protocol. I have never seen them misbehave what so ever and if you have pictures of them doing such please pass them along to us here.

Some royal children have run around crying wanting things in an event where they should be quiet and more peaceful, not these girls. Both parents I believe are doing a fabulous job of raising them yet who here are we to say how that should be done for we are not part of the family of Felipe/Letizia.
Once again, you're missing the point.

I am not asking for pictures of them doing a Froilán, they won't do that, praise the Lord they are too well behaved.

I am saying that there should be more pics of them doing "normal" things, everyday things, is that so wrong? We grew up seeing those from their father and his sisters, that's what people want.

How they raise them as people is not something I will judge or get into because that's absolutely private, what I am getting into is their PUBLIC IMAGE (or more specifically the Royal Family's public image), which I as a Spanish taxpayer have the right to give my opinion about.
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  #1212  
Old 04-07-2018, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by leidi View Post
And what I'm talking about is that you never see Felipe out alone with the girls, while we have seen Letizia doing so, it's under the Crown's interest for the monarch to be seen out and about with his children, specially since they are his direct heirs, Juan Carlos was always seen with his children out, sailing or doing other activities with them, without Sofía present. And the other way around as well.
King Felipe takes his daughter Princess Leonor to her first football game
Princess Sofia joins her dad King Felipe at Spanish football match
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  #1213  
Old 04-07-2018, 02:16 AM
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I did exaggerate with the "never" part (and I own up to what I say ) but this is basically what people want to see, the girls out and about doing normal stuff like going to a football match with their dad, it's great for both Felipe and them, for their image.

Don't keep them at the palace and let them out just for their first day of school, Palma masses and Pascua Militar, give more to the public, that's what the people want.

You see children from other monarchies doing normal kiddie stuff and no one gets traumatized by it, in fact it helps the kids settling more comfortably into their role, since they get used to be out and about most of the time.
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  #1214  
Old 04-07-2018, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by leidi View Post
Once again, you're missing the point.

I am not asking for pictures of them doing a Froilán, they won't do that, praise the Lord they are too well behaved.

I am saying that there should be more pics of them doing "normal" things, everyday things, is that so wrong? We grew up seeing those from their father and his sisters, that's what people want.

How they raise them as people is not something I will judge or get into because that's absolutely private, what I am getting into is their PUBLIC IMAGE (or more specifically the Royal Family's public image), which I as a Spanish taxpayer have the right to give my opinion about.
I am not missing your point for you keep distancing yourself from my comment. So what storm did the girls not whether from your previous post? These are beautiful girls because of the love and nurturing that their parents do. They are shown love by both parents when out at events for that is an sign of love and encouragement. Just because Letizia gives them a caress on the cheek or pats their hair does not mean that she in controlling them, that to me shows love and say ..*Hey sweetie mom is here if you have a problem* like mom has their back type of thing. Darn more mothers should be like that and fathers.........
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  #1215  
Old 04-07-2018, 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by M. Payton View Post
I am not missing your point for you keep distancing yourself from my comment. So what storm did the girls not whether from your previous post? These are beautiful girls because of the love and nurturing that their parents do. They are shown love by both parents when out at events for that is an sign of love and encouragement. Just because Letizia gives them a caress on the cheek or pats their hair does not mean that she in controlling them, that to me shows love and say ..*Hey sweetie mom is here if you have a problem* like mom has their back type of thing. Darn more mothers should be like that and fathers.........
The storm part is about Letizia, Sofía and the rest of the family, sorry if that part was unclear, never about the girls themselves, which are basically the only people left in the SRF core without any true drama attached to them

Our Royal Family is as problematic as our politicians as we didn't have enough drama with those...

And one thing is a caress in terms of endearment, a hand in the back, a nod of encouragement and another something like THIS or THIS (I can show you a LOT more where Letizia is basically glued to her daughters, touching them, "fixing" their hair, "making" them look a certain way, it's a nervous tic, really, super annoying to watch).
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  #1216  
Old 04-07-2018, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by leidi View Post
I did exaggerate with the "never" part (and I own up to what I say ) but this is basically what people want to see, the girls out and about doing normal stuff like going to a football match with their dad, it's great for both Felipe and them, for their image.

Don't keep them at the palace and let them out just for their first day of school, Palma masses and Pascua Militar, give more to the public, that's what the people want.

You see children from other monarchies doing normal kiddie stuff and no one gets traumatized by it, in fact it helps the kids settling more comfortably into their role, since they get used to be out and about most of the time.
We have seen photos and reports of Felipe and Letizia having been with the girls often at the movies, they have been seen at the theatre, at an exhibition, at a classical concert. We have seen them skiing together. I think that the girls have been seen enough, although not all of us remember that now when this discussion is heated. Every parent has a different way of raising their children and we should not compare how Felipe and Letizia raise their children to other royals, because they all are totally different people, and their children are different.
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  #1217  
Old 04-07-2018, 02:50 AM
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I see *nothing* wrong with a mother *guiding* her children to stand in a certain area or place when at an event, that is teaching them.

This entire thread has been almost about the Easter situation, not the girls being seen out with their father. We all here that follow the SRF have seen the girls out with BOTH parents and with EACH parent, so that is not new here.

All this uproar has been about Letizia only and the backlash from the people of Spain and here is beyond being nasty to the point some are telling Felipe to divorce his wife....what nerve does anyone have to say that to another person is unbelievably cruel and hateful. I have followed Letizia from day 1 of her engagement and have read how she has been treated by the media, the trolls, her inlaws and her own family all because they thought she married a cash cow so to speak......Sofia has gotten a pass for her behavior, all because she is the *former queen* and has worked her entire life for Spain, if she had *waited* a few seconds till her granddaughter finished shaking that lady's hand and then motioned her over then I honestly believe nothing would of happened. Yet she had to have her way with them right then there for everyone to see, her image with her grandchildren was more important to her then her granddaughter being respectful to a member of the public.

I got a very different view of Spain and the people this week for sure and I have friends that live there for over a decade now......even they can't believe how this has turned out. In fact the world has seen the people of Spain at their worst this week........not good for business I would say.
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  #1218  
Old 04-07-2018, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ZaJa View Post
The amount of attention and anger over this is insane. Like... wow! LOL This woman must be the devil in designer clothing judging by the way everyone is on her. Jesus, priorities.
Oh, this will pass and soon people, also this forum, will direct their attentions towards something else. - For the time being...

In a way you can say it's a good thing this is getting so much attention, because it means people right now don't have worse things to be concerned about. Always look at the positive aspect.

However, judging from the massive attention this has had in especially Spain, this is a PR-crisis, that King Felipe needs to address once and for all and put a decisive end to it.
Because this will not be forgotten by people, and certainly not by the press! It was a PR-disaster for Queen Letizia in particular. I won't go into whether it is deserved or not, it's a fact. Queen Letizia cannot afford more disasters like this before her image is damaged beyond repair.
If Queen Letizia remains everyone's favorite villain in the SRF for the rest of her life, she's in for some long years! And I think there is a very real chance that she will break down under that strain. One way or another.

So King Felipe is doing no one a favor by trying to smooth things out, as I'm sure he has tried to do so far.
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  #1219  
Old 04-07-2018, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Oh, this will pass and soon people, also this forum, will direct their attentions towards something else. - For the time being...

In a way you can say it's a good thing this is getting so much attention, because it means people right now don't have worse things to be concerned about. Always look at the positive aspect.

However, judging from the massive attention this has had in especially Spain, this is a PR-crisis, that King Felipe needs to address once and for all and put a decisive end to it.
Because this will not be forgotten by people, and certainly not by the press! It was a PR-disaster for Queen Letizia in particular. I won't go into whether it is deserved or not, it's a fact. Queen Letizia cannot afford more disasters like this before her image is damaged beyond repair.
If Queen Letizia remains everyone's favorite villain in the SRF for the rest of her life, she's in for some long years! And I think there is a very real chance that she will break down under that strain. One way or another.

So King Felipe is doing no one a favor by trying to smooth things out, as I'm sure he has tried to do so far.
My mother is a staunch monarchist (we have a portrait of Juan Carlos and another of Felipe at the family home, believe it or not) and she has said basically the same thing, there's a need for a huge deal of damage control right now, otherwise Letizia's image will be even more deteriorated than it is now

Fun fact: she actually does not mind Letizia much but then again she likes everyone in the SRF except for Iñaki (for obvious reasons )
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  #1220  
Old 04-07-2018, 03:12 AM
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Thanks for your explanations, Leidi, I think they're very insightful!
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