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  #1061  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:03 AM
leidi's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Could we please have a brief summary in English of the five incidents mentioned in this article, kindly posted by leidi:
https://www.elespanol.com/corazon/ca...6971251_0.html

Google is IMO crap when it comes to translating from Spanish into English.
1. Letizia didn't look at her mother-in-law
Last summer, at the traditional reception for authorities at the Palacio de la Almudaina, Sofía was waiting at the entrance for F&L to enter, Letizia went past her, didn't greet her, didn't look at her, as if Sofía wasn't there.

2. Anise Candy
Sofía is very fond of those and always carry them in her purse, likes to give them to her grandchildren, Letizia was against it because she's obsessed (the press word, not mine and RED FLAG ) with her daughters' nutrition, one time at the Club Náutico, Sofía gave the candy to Leonor and Sofía Jr and Letizia threw a tantrum that was "heard all over Palma". It never happened again.

3. At the stable horses
It is known that Sofía is not allowed to see the Infantas without Letizia's explcit permission/presence, one time they were having riding classes in Zarzuela, one of the stable boys alerted Sofía of that and she came down to see the girls, once Letizia knew, she threatened to fire him if that happened again.

4. Anniversary Mass for Don Juan de Borbón
No one knows when their relationship went sour but Sofía has tried to be a peacemaker between Cristina and her brother, trying to convince Felipe to at least allow her back into the family life, Letizia disagrees and that's why at said funeral (which Cristina attended, the family welcoming with open arms except for F&L) the two Queens didn't talk or even look at each other at all.

5. The Palma Incident of this year.

The only one I give Letizia the point is the Cristina situation, apart from that it's just yet another demonstration of how controlling and obsessive she is with her daughters.
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  #1062  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:03 AM
moby's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post
So ... Sofia takes the granddaughter and leaves a lady with her hand hanging and nothing happens ... Sofia tries to push Letizia away with her hand ... and nothing happens ... Letizia makes a comment to her mother-in-law for her rude gestures ... and she is the devil...

Sofia can do what she wants, no matter how rude and out of place she is ... she is always apologetic. Queen Letizia whatever she does, she never does anything right.
There's a lesson to be learned here for Letizia that a lot of Asian kids learn early on in their childhoods...always respect your elder, even when you're correct you're never right.
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  #1063  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leidi View Post

Maybe Sofía didn't choose the best moment for a pic but it was definitely Letizia the one who escalated this, if she would have stayed away, let the picture be taken and then talk discreetely to Sofía about the issue, things would have not gone to this point.

The issue is getting messier and messier.
Maybe Sofia has been spoken to privately and discreetly previously but she ignores it and does what she wants anyway? In which case, it is Sofia that caused a problem.
Just playing devil's advocate here, I really have no opinion one way or another as it cannot be determined what actually happened. Lots of different interpretations here of the same event.
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  #1064  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moby View Post
There's a lesson to be learned here for Letizia that a lot of Asian kids learn early on in their childhoods...always respect your elder, even when you're correct you're never right.
Letizia was NEITHER correct Nor right.
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  #1065  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:13 AM
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https://www.elespanol.com/corazon/ca...7220932_0.html

Juan Carlos to Felipe: "Come a moment, we have to talk". Felipe to Juan Carlos: "Not now"
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  #1066  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:23 AM
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It seems like Cristina and inanki are really a big underlying issue here-they keep appearing in the narrative.

Of course Sofia wants her daughter welcome in the family, maybe she could convince Felipe against his better judgement. But if Letizia is firmly against it and giving Felipe the support to keep away from his sister and the problems she is bringing to the royal family, good for her.

This is a no win situation, but Inaki caused the original problem. It is affecting everything.
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  #1067  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
Maybe Sofia has been spoken to privately and discreetly previously but she ignores it and does what she wants anyway?
Sofia was having a picture with her granddaughters by a court photographer. What is there to be spoken about. There's no way in the world this could be stirred in Letizia's favor. However hard some people would try.
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  #1068  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:44 AM
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People have choices ... create thoughts for themselves, according to what they see ... or swallow everything the yellow press tells them without reflecting ... this is the reason for the fake news's triumph.

The Spanish press can continue to make noise attacking the weak link ... I do not even know if Sofia will have been happy because she has come out winning the show ... but Felipe, Letizia and their daughters know exactly what happened ...

Spaniards adore gossip, criticize the plebeian is easy and fun ... but in the end it is still a very subjective criticism ... and people know it. Many voices, especially the youngest ones, think that she is criticized because she is plebeian or because they want to cover other more relevant issues.

There are many more serious topics, and they are those that people do not forget. Cristina will never return to official life, first because by law she is no longer a member of the Royal Family ... second, because her husband has been a swindler with public money, and people in Spain will not forgive him.

It is not a personal question of Felipe or an opinion of Letizia, it is that for the generality of Spanish public opinion. The Royal Family must know that one thing is the Institution and another the family, and that who does not comply with the institution, can not enjoy the privileges that carries.

Spaniards may find it great that Juan Carlos and Sofía want to support their daughter, but they must do so from the private sphere and their extensive financial resources. I do not know if, apart from that support, there is a pretense to look for "alternative" ways to free Iñaki from prison ... but if that is what they want, it means that they do not know this country.
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  #1069  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post
People have choices ... create thoughts for themselves, according to what they see ... or swallow everything the yellow press tells them without reflecting ... this is the reason for the fake news's triumph..
People saw exactly what happened. They had no need to rely on the tabloids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post
The Spanish press can continue to make noise attacking the weak link ... I do not even know if Sofia will have been happy because she has come out winning the show ... but Felipe, Letizia and their daughters know exactly what happened ...
Yes, they know that Letizia has behaved in a disccussting manner, humiliated her most gracious mother-in-law and embarrassed the monarchy. But maybe they're used to it, as it's not Letizia's first time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post
spaniards adore gossip, criticize the plebeian is easy and fun ... but in the end it is still a very subjective criticism ... and people know it. Many voices, especially the youngest ones, think that she is criticized because she is plebeian or because they want to cover other more relevant issues.
.
Spaniards are intelligent people with good sense. That's how they know who is at fault, even if some people try, desperately to portray it otherwise.
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  #1070  
Old 04-06-2018, 05:05 AM
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^ Altho' NONE of the 'adults' involved come out of this 'looking good', the worst casualty [in the court of 'World opinion'] is the Spanish general public, whose reaction has been beyond VICIOUS. Along with the nations notorious corruption and 'perceived' violence by the Guardia Civil against civilians in Catalonia NONE of this reflects well on Spain..
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  #1071  
Old 04-06-2018, 05:24 AM
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And lets not forget that Inaki will soon be in jail for stealing money from charities that should of gone to the poor people....and he is the son -in- law of the former king and queen no less......wonder if Letizia will be blamed and hung from the highest tree for what he did.

So the media and the trolls of the social media all dance with glee over this situation which shows their very intelligent minds at work, the type of people that they are and this is the Spanish people..... well not all Spanish people are like this for my friends aren't vicious at all.
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  #1072  
Old 04-06-2018, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
People saw exactly what happened. They had no need to rely on the tabloids.



Yes, they know that Letizia has behaved in a disccussting manner, humiliated her most gracious mother-in-law and embarrassed the monarchy. But maybe they're used to it, as it's not Letizia's first time.



Spaniards are intelligent people with good sense. That's how they know who is at fault, even if some people try, desperately to portray it otherwise.
One thing's for sure, individual biases become clearest in situations like these. Fans and haters of each Queen speak for or against them.

I would think that the "intelligent" Spaniards know there is more to this than meets the eye, give both women the benefit of doubt, wish BOTH women acted more graciously, and that most of all, there are more pressing matters that should be debated.

The ones viciously and loudly attacking Letizia and Leonor might be the loudest but it is no surprise, everybody knows Letizia has not been the most popular member of the Spanish RF. Loudest doesn't mean smartest though, so I doubt they're representative of "intelligent Spaniards with good sense" that you were referring to.
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  #1073  
Old 04-06-2018, 05:48 AM
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Shame on those reporters heckling the Infanta Margarita ho looks very frail ,its a wonder her older sister did not tell them off|!
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  #1074  
Old 04-06-2018, 06:12 AM
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The reaction of the Spanish on the street, on social media and on seemingly serious newspapers is disgraceful. Maybe the country deserves squabbling Queens, corrupted brothers-in-laws and tabloid-like media. De Maistre's quote "Every country has the government it deserves" might easily be modified in "Every country has the Royal Family it deserves."

I'd like to know who on earth wakes up in the morning and has nothing better to do with their day than go stand for a few hours in front of an event to boo their Queen and then demand on social media that the King divorces her because she had a spat with her mother-in-law. Seriously, this is silly. I think most sane people are ready to move on.
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  #1075  
Old 04-06-2018, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
^ Altho' NONE of the 'adults' involved come out of this 'looking good', the worst casualty [in the court of 'World opinion'] is the Spanish general public, whose reaction has been beyond VICIOUS. Along with the nations notorious corruption and 'perceived' violence by the Guardia Civil against civilians in Catalonia NONE of this reflects well on Spain..
Agreed. From an international standpoint, it was a minor family squabble. Everyone can understand the difficulty with in-laws sometimes. However, the true embarrassment isn’t Letizia here, it’s the way the Spanish public basically went on a figurative public flogging of a Queen over something so minor.
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  #1076  
Old 04-06-2018, 06:19 AM
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Seeing the reaction of 'his subjects', if I were Felipe Vl i'd seriously consider packing my, and my families bags [and lining up each and every Borbón in line for the throne before an abdication document, having everyone sign it] before leaving Spain for a more reasonable, and rational life ELSEWHERE.
Why would a father wish to see a beloved daughter inherit so POISON a chalice ?

And leave the Spaniards at the mercy of their DETESTED politicians..
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  #1077  
Old 04-06-2018, 06:32 AM
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I don't know where these nasty Spaniards come from, it boggles the mind. 99% of the people I encounter everyday are absolutely wonderful. Polite but brutally frank, honest, fair...it is not good that this nastiness is the image people abroad have of the country since it is simply not true. I suppose the Spain I encounter everyday is the Spain any monarch would proudly fight for.

Sorry, just felt the need to remind people that this hatefulness is not Spain.
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  #1078  
Old 04-06-2018, 06:34 AM
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The Spanish Media have reported that Letizia has not a single friend in the Royal and extended family .There have been lots of stories about her poor relationship with king Juan Carlos,the Infanta Cristina situation speaks for itself and I don't blame her there either. Queen Letizia did not attend the 80th birthday for Felipe's aunt Pilar in 2016 ,which was noted by many.I don't think Letizia and Pilar were ever close .Last year the Spanish media reported that the once 'good' relationship between the Infanta Elena and queen Letizia had also soured.Now we have the War of The Queens.

If there are bad or poor relations then I say its both parties are guilty and it cannot be all one sided.



There's an old saying that it takes two to tango!
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  #1079  
Old 04-06-2018, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M. Payton View Post
HighnessN
I find it extremely sad how the people of Spain and some here are crucifying Letizia over this, what next can they blame her for......oh, the fact that Inaki is going to prison for stealing is what, now her fault also.

It has gotten ridiculous that some are so mean spirited and hateful to her over what, caring for her daughter. If anyone would ever put their arm around the neck of a daughter of mine that looked uncomfortable to her, you better believe I would have my say. Queen Sofia over the years now has always done this and just maybe Queen Letizia got fed up with her behavior. You can always take pictures anywhere, in your home, in the garden, at a school event, yet this had to be done in public for everyone to see how great a grandmother she is, all about her as a Queen not about the children, all about her image and nothing else.
You keep pretending that Letizia only intervened when Sophia was putting an arm around Leonor's neck. This was not the case at all. Sophia did so in direct response to Letizia's behavior purposefully frustrating a picture of a grandmother with her children.

Was Sophia in the wrong? Yes, as well, as her response to Letizia's very irritating behavior should have been to give in for the benefit of the girls. But had Letizia allowed the official photographer take a picture, it would have been over in a few seconds and no scene had been caused. It was Letizia who caused this very uneasy and tense situation for her daughters; so, I am sure she cares about her daughters but it didn't show in this situation, she was using them to establish her status/position over her mother-in-law's.
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  #1080  
Old 04-06-2018, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Note the caption: Letizia humiliates Queen Sofía.
That fits in the general tendence I see: Letizia is Letizia. Doña Sofía is still La Reina.
Most reports and articles I've seen discuss 'Queen Letizia and Doña Sofia'.
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