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  #901  
Old 04-05-2018, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
Leonor is supposed to become a queen one day, she should have already learned the appearance rules. Her behavior is impolite and unfriendly towards a grandmother, even non royal, a grandmother feels miserable when she is rejected while trying to cuddle her grandaughter, unless this grandaughter is raised without live for the grandma. So something wrong with girls education.
I completely disagree. Leonor found herself in a VERY uncomfortable situation. The videos show that she gestured against both her mother and grandmother who were making such a fuss (to use a light term). Yet, she kept smiling and remained very poised.
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  #902  
Old 04-05-2018, 09:31 AM
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Two more things worth noticing even after these video have been dissected for the past 48 hours.

- It is telling that Leonor, when they finally exited the Church reached for her father. Between the two squabbling women she chose comfort in the hand of his father (who, unfortunately, was distracted by his father and didn't notice) the only healthy adult in the situation.
- Secondly, QS's kiss outside the Church seemed to say: "Sorry about what happened, sweetheart, everything's fine, but I now must leave you in the hand of your mother."
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  #903  
Old 04-05-2018, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by eya View Post
According by a friend and former co-worker Imma Aguilar of Queen Letizia the Queen is "hurt and worried" about this video and the only she want is to protect the two Princesses from the "overly intrusive media"

Queen Letizia worried and hurt by the Easter mass video – Royal Central
Yet, when the incident occurred, the entire congregation was snapping pictures of their phones...It it not a convincing explanation and again does not justify the aggressive and controlling reaction.
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  #904  
Old 04-05-2018, 09:39 AM
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I don't see how Letizia gets the blame for escalating in this situation. She tried to be subtle, walking across and playing it off as simple conversation. It's Sofia who doubled down and made things obvious for everyone to see.

But that's Sofia in a nutshell to me. Passive aggressive, playing the act of the docile mother/grandmother while actually stirring the pot and making things worse. Look at the way she's denigrated people (homosexuals), put up the screen for her criminal son-in-law, etc. over the years. She's trouble, always has been. The admiration for her is utterly nonsensical.

Letizia may not be warm and cuddly, but someone's got to right the ship from the messes that Sofia, Juan Carlos and their daughter made.
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  #905  
Old 04-05-2018, 09:39 AM
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To be fair towards Letizia: I can not see much over-protection of Doña Leonor. Compared with her invisible Dutch "colleague" Princess Catharina-Amalia, Doña Leonor is very visible.
Perhaps this is true but the Spanish audience and the media care about Leonor and how they see her. I hate to point out also that part of that image of Leonor being sheltered is how she looks. To be clear I'm not critiquing her looks, she is a beautiful child. She looks younger than her age though, and it could change, but for now she seems so delicate. Personality-wise, she seems super well-behaved, reserved. Sometimes I see photos of her in magazines on the stands in Madrid, side by side with photos of Rajoy and Puigdemont and think, geesh, this delicate, very innoncent-looking little girl will have such a massive responsibility.
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  #906  
Old 04-05-2018, 09:40 AM
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Its made the NY Times I reckon a lot of readers probably didn't know that Spain was a kingdom and has 2 kings/queens.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/05/w...een-sofia.html


Also on the BBC News -Spanish royals in awkward moment


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43649668
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  #907  
Old 04-05-2018, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
To be fair towards Letizia: I can not see much over-protection of Doña Leonor. Compared with her Dutch "colleague" Princess Amalia, Doña Leonor is very visible for public and media...

The difference maybe is that when these princesses are visible, the one accompanying mother looks like carefree, relaxed, confident and enjoying it all. This while the other accompanying mother looks tense, unsecure and under pressure.

It is more the non-verbal communication than the "over protection" thing, I think.
I agree with your assessment. I don't think that they are overly shielded. I feel like we see a lot of them, given that they're children. What I've always found, however, is that when they are shown in public (sorry, it's a bad way of putting it, I know) their appearances are always excessively "choreographed" or maybe, I should say, overly "styled." There's never a picture of them in jeans playing on a swing with their hair flying out of a ponytail or making cookies with mum with flour on their shirts! Their hair is always perfectly braided, the outfits coordinated, etc. I think their mother is putting too much emphasis on "appearance."

While I don't like the "they're just like us!" narrative and I actually appreciate that RFs leaad different lives from that of the people they represent, there should be a balance nowadays given the fragile status of monarchies.

Even Prince George (from the very uptight BRF!) had some official, natural pictures playing with the dog and eating an ice-cream. I think the Danish royal family is a good example. The children are very well put together for official functions but also appear to be fun-loving normal children. Same thing for the Dutch, Belgian and Swedish RFs. Even the recent "family" video where the family was shown at home eating and driving to school felt awkward and cold except for Felipe. (even the house looked terribly cold!).

I hope the two Infantas will not suffer from this in the future (alas, Muhler's comparison to Princess Victoria sadly makes me think of her eating disorders). Felipe's strength and presence will be instrumental in this.
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  #908  
Old 04-05-2018, 10:00 AM
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I think both Queens made mistakes. Queen Sofia should not have continued to cling to the girls after Letizia blocked them from view by standing in front of them. Letizia should not have intervened at all imo. This was one of the rare public appearances by the Infantas so the hovering protection should be completely off. Trust that their grandmother would not do anything to "hurt their image" with a pose for photo. I'm still disturbed by Queen Sofia giving a loving caress goodbye to Leonor while ignoring little Sofia completely at the end.That is more damning of Queen Sofia than the other behavior. Blatant favoritism of the "heiress" over the spare changes my impression of the emeritus Queen.
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  #909  
Old 04-05-2018, 10:13 AM
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Letizia is a disgrace. I'd rather have the Spanish monarchy abolished than let that woman taint the legacy of blue-blooded Queens Victoria Eugenia and Sofia any further.
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  #910  
Old 04-05-2018, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
I don't see how Letizia gets the blame for escalating in this situation. She tried to be subtle, walking across and playing it off as simple conversation. It's Sofia who doubled down and made things obvious for everyone to see.

But that's Sofia in a nutshell to me. Passive aggressive, playing the act of the docile mother/grandmother while actually stirring the pot and making things worse. Look at the way she's denigrated people (homosexuals), put up the screen for her criminal son-in-law, etc. over the years. She's trouble, always has been. The admiration for her is utterly nonsensical.

Letizia may not be warm and cuddly, but someone's got to right the ship from the messes that Sofia, Juan Carlos and their daughter made.
Couldn't agree more. It's Sofia here who snapped like a caged dog here, not Letizia.
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  #911  
Old 04-05-2018, 10:19 AM
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Letizia, abucheada al grito de "fuera" a la salida de su primer acto tras el rifirrafe con Sofía | Casa Real

Letizia was booed and people were screaming "Fuera" (OUT) outside of the building where she had an act today.

And many people are asking Felipe outright to divorce her on Twitter.

"Loyalist" media like Hola will start a campaign soon but people will have to be appeased a LOT to let go of this.
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  #912  
Old 04-05-2018, 10:20 AM
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The underlying problem is how things are in Spain and with the Spanish press.

The fury that people sometimes show on social networks with children of the Royal Family, children of politicians or famous people is brutal. The press discounted the days for the children of the celebrities to turn 18 years old and so let them be bound by law to cover their faces.

There are people near the Royal House who say that it is Felipe who is even more worried about his daughters, and who does not want for them the excesses that he suffered in his childhood.

Queen Sofia has always wanted to pose very often with her grandchildren, any birthday, out to the zoo or to a Disney show, was preceded by a call from Sofia to the press. In Mallorca, children were photographed daily. And that was very positive for the public image of Sofia, and for the press a big business.

The question is whether that was good for the children. Froilan, a mischievous child who lived in a family situation complicated by his father's illness, became the subject of constant exposure because he hated the photos ... and instead of protecting him more, they continued to expose him to the press.

The press was used to showing children without a filter, and when problems arose, such as Elena's divorce and the Urdangarín scandal, the children were victims. Despite that, Queen Sofia did not change her policy of exposing them to the media and showing the perfect family and the loving grandmother.

Since the birth of Leonor, Felipe and Letizia saw that overexposure could not be the way. They wanted their daughters to live a normal childhood, and little by little to participate in public life.

In October Leonor celebrated her 12th birthday, and the Royal House published her first official photograph ... and somehow that made everyone suppose that her official life began ... something that was confirmed with the delivery of the Golden Fleece. Every journalist minimally informed knows that the expectations that this year Leonor visits Asturias officially for the first time are very high.
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  #913  
Old 04-05-2018, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
I don't see how Letizia gets the blame for escalating in this situation. She tried to be subtle, walking across and playing it off as simple conversation. [...]
"Subtle"?

She effectively sabotaged the official (!) photographer of the Royal House to picture Doña Sofía with her granddaughters.
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  #914  
Old 04-05-2018, 10:29 AM
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https://www.instagram.com/p/BhKbzkxg...by=natyabascal

Naty Abascal, Hola's stylist and mother of the Duke of Feria

"Doña Sofía will always be our Queen. God save Doña Sofía. The trade (profession) is not always learnt properly"

Well, that's one hell of a message if you ask me, basically saying that Letizia hasn't learnt in 14 years what it means to be a Queen.
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  #915  
Old 04-05-2018, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by leidi View Post
https://www.instagram.com/p/BhKbzkxg...by=natyabascal

Naty Abascal, Hola's stylist and mother of the Duke of Feria

"Doña Sofía will always be our Queen. God save Doña Sofía. The trade (profession) is not always learnt properly"

Well, that's one hell of a message if you ask me, basically saying that Letizia hasn't learnt in 14 years what it means to be a Queen.
My sentiments exactly.
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  #916  
Old 04-05-2018, 10:33 AM
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Not to be rude but abdicated monarchs and their spouses should retire from public life. Not make any appearances. It leads to divided loyalties with the public.

Imo, Letizia was as subtle as the situation allowed. Sofía was determined to get a pic whether the girls and their mother wanted it or not.

I don’t know much about the SRF but I admire Letizia as a mother.
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  #917  
Old 04-05-2018, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
"Subtle"?

She effectively sabotaged the official (!) photographer of the Royal House to picture Doña Sofía with her granddaughters.
Exactly, would ONE picture have killed the girls? Let Sofía take it and then do whatever you want, it's not that difficult to see.
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  #918  
Old 04-05-2018, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by donnaK View Post
There always has been incredible double standards. If the roles of Letizia and Sofia had been reversed that day, Letizia would still be the one to be blamed. Look at this woman, when the rest of her families were greeting the guests, she was standing at the center of the church grabbing her daughters and posing for the camera. After so many years, she still didn't know how to behave ! Her MIL tried to stop her, she dared to push her MIL's law's hand away, threw a tantrum, what a bitch blah blah blah :bang !

There were talks of Felipe usually taking the girls to Zarzuela to meet his parents Friday afternoon. There was no proof that Sofia almost had no chance of seeing the girls. Maybe Sofia herself hadn't been spending much time in Spain. Let's blame Letizia for that too.
You are so right with this. If Letizia would have done what queen Sofia did after the Mass, she would have been blamed for wanting all the attention to herself, and at a church, of all places! How could she!

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Originally Posted by leidi View Post
Exactly, would ONE picture have killed the girls? Let Sofía take it and then do whatever you want, it's not that difficult to see.
Why an earth queen Sofia wanted a photo taken at a church? There are better places for taking a photo with her grandchildren, how about at home or in Marivent? But then no one would have seen the loving grandmother with her grandchildren.
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  #919  
Old 04-05-2018, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Wait, if the photo was meant to be for Queen Siofia’s private album as some posters have claimed, why was Letizia concerned at all ? There was no underlying threat of public exposure of her daughters’ image. Maybe there was some misunderstanding on Letizia’s part. Otherwise, there is no way to interpret it other than Letizia being plainly mean to her mother-in-law.
exactly. if the photo was actually for her private album, all the more reason to queen sofia, as this wouldn't have been a public picture anyway.

even so, why care so much about the girls taking a picture with sofia if they were ALL pictured at the entrance to the church and out, and during their whole lives! it is not as if we never saw a picture of queen sofia and leonor and sofia!

my guess is that at some point letizia and sofia had a good relationship. proof is that letizia referred to her during her engagement interviews, and she also named her second kid after it. i also recall pictures of them both on board of a yatch during summer holidays spending time together. so their relationship has changed at some point, possibly when sofia decided to support cristina and inaki.

what has remained altered is letizia's wish to control the media and boicot anything she doesn't deem good. as a former journalist, she knows the tricks of the trade and will work against them as required. this article summarises the many occasions she has done just that:

A Letizia le encanta controlar | Baleares Home | EL MUNDO

in particular, it speaks about how during the first summer she spent in palma as princess of asturias she wore the same clothes both days as she knew that magazines would not pay twice for the exact same pictures even if taken on different dates, and thus ensuring her privacy. they also mention the many times she breaks the composition of a picture at the perfect moment for photographers so that pictures sell for less than they should....

Quote:
Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
I don't see how Letizia gets the blame for escalating in this situation. She tried to be subtle, walking across and playing it off as simple conversation. It's Sofia who doubled down and made things obvious for everyone to see.

But that's Sofia in a nutshell to me. Passive aggressive, playing the act of the docile mother/grandmother while actually stirring the pot and making things worse. Look at the way she's denigrated people (homosexuals), put up the screen for her criminal son-in-law, etc. over the years. She's trouble, always has been. The admiration for her is utterly nonsensical.

Letizia may not be warm and cuddly, but someone's got to right the ship from the messes that Sofia, Juan Carlos and their daughter made.
there's always many sides to a story. however, i don't see what letizia did as subtle. it was childish, and she acted as a spoilt brat over a very small thing.

sofia, on the other hand, has won the trust and the recognition of the spaniards through hard work, being a loyal spouse despite the many errors juan carlos did, and being a doting mother and grandmother, and always keeping her composure even during times of chaos for the RF. letizia, on the other hand, has the reputation of being cold and manipulative and i don't think many can say the same of her.
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  #920  
Old 04-05-2018, 10:54 AM
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The problem is not the photo, the problem is that when they are still inside the temple and when they are saying goodbye to the citizens who want some attention, it is not the time to take a personal photo (and less when that same photographer is working in your house every day)... because it is disrespectful to the place where they are and to the people who are there.
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