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  #881  
Old 04-05-2018, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by leidi View Post
Yes.
I think she would have been happier staying as a TV anchor than becoming a Queen but ambition was stronger than anything else.
This we will probably never know. The idea I have for Letizia is that she is not deeply enjoying her position but she executes her tasks In a professional way. It is like when you don't like your job but since it is a well paid job you do it correctly, like a machine without soul.
In the opposite side I have Mette Marit who at any moment gives the impression hating her position and suffering constantly, trying to escape from obligations at any moment.
Not Letizia, she decided to "take the job" and she does it. She just doesn't deeply love it.
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  #882  
Old 04-05-2018, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by leidi View Post
It's actually a bit more complicated than that these days, because the only institution that is actually bringing (by Constitution) the country together is the Monarchy, if there's a call for a Constitutional reform to remove the monarchy, the country could actually break apart, it would open a huge can of worms most of us really don't need.

Any kind of instability in the Crown is utterly inconvenient at this time, couldn't have happened at a worst moment and people would take any silly thing to try to bring them down.
We are talking about Letizia reacting against Doña Sofía. Not about the head of state or about the functioning of King's Household. This is not even the slightest "crack" on this office of state. Come on. They have endured much worse and survived it all.
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  #883  
Old 04-05-2018, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
Do you really see the videos?... The real ones, not the ones that have the whole plane cut ...

There is only ONE photographer inside the church, who is in front of Sofia and with whom Sofia speaks. As there is only one camera operator.

Any real follower of the Royal Family knows that photographer perfectly and sees how he normally does his work. The press in the Cathedral of Palma is located outside on the side of the square, far away in the opposite angle to which Sofia is situated.

That photographer makes photos for the House and the Family, and it is the press department that selects the photos that hands out. A picture of Sofia alone with her granddaughters was for her.

The problem is not obviously that Sofia wants to take the picture, the problem is that it is not the place or the moment. Sofia's gesture to the people who are greeting the Royal Family, how she separates her granddaughter from a lady (who is whom Letizia greets later), it is for me the worst of the whole situation, because it does not affect what normal frictions between family members may be, it affects the treatment they give to citizens who spend their time going to see and greet them. Because that photographer can take the photo at any time and not at a time when they leave the people aside and the girls are already saturated.

I have commented many times, Sofia was also criticized without mercy, but then there was no Internet ... when Sofia got older, the criticisms went to Felipe's girlfriends, then to Marichalar and finally to Letizia ... and at some point the girls will start to be more interesting than her and the critics will go there. It is the Spanish essence amplified with social networks.

In the script of the press Queen Sofia, is now a poor victim, the sufferer of an unfaithful husband, who suffers the family's dramas. Obviously it is an exaggerated portrait, but that within history sells well. But make no mistake ... people do not forget her support for Urgangarin, her constant trips outside Spain when she was queen (still many people say that she lives in London) or her comments about homosexuals ...

This type of viral reactions respond to many things. Somehow this frivolous subject, has served to break a vicious circle related to the Catalan theme of which people were saturated, has given another topic to talk about.
I don't really follow the SRF but what is wrong for a grandmother to want to have a private picture that won't be published with her granddaughters, especially when it only takes 1 minute to do and do you think as a grandmother she should have asked to the mother ?
If it's the case, then it tells a lot about the relationship in the family...
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  #884  
Old 04-05-2018, 04:20 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
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Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
This we will probably never know. The idea I have for Letizia is that she is not deeply enjoying her position but she executes her tasks In a professional way. It is like when you don't like your job but since it is a well paid job you do it correctly, like a machine without soul.
In the opposite side I have Mette Marit who at any moment gives the impression hating her position and suffering constantly, trying to escape from obligations at any moment.
Not Letizia, she decided to "take the job" and she does it. She just doesn't deeply love it.
Agree 100%!!
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  #885  
Old 04-05-2018, 04:26 AM
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Duke, what is Letizia really doing? Everyone gives their version, but really NO ONE knows what she says to her mother-in-law.

Everyone criticizes Letizia's attitude, but in the images from both sides what is seen on her face is a smile ... while Sofia shows a much more tense face ... and Letizia is not exactly an expert in hiding her feelings.

On the other hand, Sofía does the first ugly gesture, and Letizia corrects it by reaching out to shake the lady's hand. I do not know if Letizia saw the gesture or not, but if I had been a mother and I had seen it, I would have made the girl go back to greet the woman before leaving.
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  #886  
Old 04-05-2018, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Royals are humans too.

There are clearly some deep unresolved issues here and for whatever reason something triggered this IMO irrational and not very sensible reaction from Queen Letizia.
It has happened to all of us.

But it's also because royals are humans that is the reason why we can relate to them.
Most of the time the royal try to live up to the high standards we expect from them, and succeed. But sometimes they slip and it is here we should be forgiving. - As long as they don't make a habit of it!

Okay, I don't follow the Spanish royal very much, but like everybody else, I have a "first impression" of the SRF members. Including Queen Letizia.(Admittedly I do find her a little cold.)
So permit me to play the devil's advocate here and turn things around. That's always healthy:

What if Queen Letizia is the one who is unfairly treated?

She has a husband, whom she feels does not support her enough.
She has a mother-in-law who is pushy, disrespectful, domineering, prone to humiliating her daughter-in-law. On top of that Queen Sofia and her family can't stand the sight of her.
A father-in-law, whom she felt did not support and help her, while he was reigning king.
The press and the public have been after her from day one. And that to the extent that she feels that even if she single-handed saved 10 children from a burning orphanage, she would be blamed for the fire...
And now she snapped in public.

So my questions to you are:
Have you tried look at it from Queen Letizia's point of view? No matter how much you dislike her.
Could there be a degree of truth in this?
I ask you because I don't know the SRF well enough to form a qualified opinion.
Agree, it is possible to find her cold, unable to connect to the public, etc. while also acknowledging she likely doesn't have support from people around her and to empathize with her situation. Just as it is possible to acknowledge all the good Sofia has done for Spain and the monarchy and believing that she is unable to retreat 100% from her former role, possibly made comments behind her DIL's back to other family members or at least made known how she feels about Letizia. None of these women are perfect.

What I don't understand is the overemphasis on "Who does Letizia think she is, she likes her position so much but did nothing to earn it" "She'd be an obscure person now if it weren't for etc etc." I mean, even if Felipe were a mildly successful professional, he'd still be a catch, and so was Letizia. I've always seen the trappings of his position as baggage more than perks. If I wanted to be a Princess, the last thing I'd want is to be a Spanish one, no offense to Spain which I love dearly. If my current job causes me so much anxiety I had to rush to the hospital because of extreme acid in my stomach, I can't imagine what it's like having married into the Spanish RF, the in-laws, the press, the public, and worse, thinking of subjecting my kids to the same thing... how could people think this is a good life?

What i also don't understand is people being able to defend Marie Chantal, who jumped into the melee! Why in the world would you comment like that? How does it help your extended family? How does she think this makes her look? What did she mean by saying grandmother instead of MIL? Was she attacking both Leonor and Letizia? And no it is not true she doesn't get affected by what the press and people say. About that extravagant and well-documented party, she did say she regretted the kind of coverage it got and how they were portrayed. These people, of course, care what people think. Her comments were disloyal, though she may think otherwise. You don't create further problems for people you care about, period. Was neutral about her, now, ugh.
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  #887  
Old 04-05-2018, 04:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post
Duke, what is Letizia really doing? Everyone gives their version, but really NO ONE knows what she says to her mother-in-law.

Everyone criticizes Letizia's attitude, but in the images from both sides what is seen on her face is a smile ... while Sofia shows a much more tense face ... and Letizia is not exactly an expert in hiding her feelings.

On the other hand, Sofía does the first ugly gesture, and Letizia corrects it by reaching out to shake the lady's hand. I do not know if Letizia saw the gesture or not, but if I had been a mother and I had seen it, I would have made the girl go back to greet the woman before leaving.
We don't see Letizia's face at all when facing Sofia so we don' t know if she smiles or not, or what she said, from Sofia's face we can see that she said something Sofia didn't agree with because her face becomes tense, we can see JC's astonished face and we can see that Felipe felt the need to step in, speaking to both women.
And we can see Letizia first greeting the lady and then moving back and forth blocking Sofia's view to the photographer, obviously deliberately because she can see what Sofia's intention is. Moving out of the way for 15 seconds and we have a non issue here.
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  #888  
Old 04-05-2018, 04:56 AM
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Fandesacs2003, I would say there are two parts of the work.

I think that Letizia feels comfortable when she can deal directly with people, when she can be active in something and can do something effective. She is a very involved person, with a lot of interest in things and people. But generally that part is more private.

Then there are the very formal things, or the eternal posed photos ... where as from the beginning she knows that they are waiting for her to make the least mistake, her attitude is much more tense. I also think that she feels very frustrated because that part, the photo, becomes the protagonist and often the content is forgotten.

It is something that the Royal House has not yet solved, Letizia should have ways to communicate what she does and help others that is what she wants, without having to mediate a press that focuses only on her wardrobe or in a wrong gesture.
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  #889  
Old 04-05-2018, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by M. Payton View Post
I saw QS arm pulling Lenore tight, did anyone think that perhaps that QS did not realize she was gripping to tight on her....not one person here thought or mentioned that that I am aware of. I think it is something that QS reacted badly to as did QL react badly to......all because Lenore pushed her grandmother's hand away........hell you put your arm around my throat I will bit you big time if it hurts and the heck who is around............
I'm not sure I follow your argument completely , but in regard to QS's pulling Leonor too tight many, many posters here, me included, have reacted negatively to it.
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  #890  
Old 04-05-2018, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by peanutbutterfly View Post
It’s the propensity people have for blaming the commoners
I really don't think so. It has nothing to do with being a commoner.
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  #891  
Old 04-05-2018, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by eya View Post
According by a friend and former co-worker Imma Aguilar of Queen Letizia the Queen is "hurt and worried" about this video and the only she want is to protect the two Princesses from the "overly intrusive media"

Queen Letizia worried and hurt by the Easter mass video – Royal Central
One more friend who is talking?!? With friends like that, who needs enemies...
The argument about protecting the daughters from being photographed can be shot down in a second.

A) It was the royal photographer.
B) Her very experienced mother-in-law, posed with the girls and we must presume she has a pretty good idea what she's doing.
C) The press corps was waiting right outside the cathedral.
D) There were lots of people inside the cathedral taking photos, some of them now doubt from within an arm reach, since the girls walked around greeting people.
E) It was a high profile public event.

- That "friend" has done more harm than good.
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  #892  
Old 04-05-2018, 08:15 AM
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https://blogs.elconfidencial.com/esp...-rosa_1544980/
https://translate.google.com/transla...osa_1544980%2F

The King has, since last Tuesday, one more problem and, according to people close to him, "it is not minor."

The incident uncovers the overprotection of Queen Letizia to her daughters, to the point of not knowing that the Princess Leonor is the heiress of the Crown and has the toll of a strong public exposure, whether her mother likes it or not.

"The Queen needs to be more empathic, less hieratic, more natural and less controlling, " the consulted sources reiterate. "The Crown is a family institution that must act publicly as such and project a climate of compromise and good understanding among its members."
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  #893  
Old 04-05-2018, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
I always thought Letizia was a hardworking Queen from the many articles I have read on the Daily Mail. Am I wrong? Also, why is she distant and doesn't represent a lovable Queen/royalty? Does she just likes the title and perks of her position?


According to Daily Mail, a hard working royal is a royals who is stylish, smiles and waves and receives flowers graciously. Even when Letizia does all of this, I can not think or feel that she is really enjoying it.

I am sorry if I am being a hard critic of Letizia. Monarchy ‘s role has obviously changed in the past decades. We don’t need someone who is a good politician, or a royal who can control a country or whatever. You just have to be likable, and smile, and try to keep the monarchy popular. Unfortunately now these are the standards for those who don’t really care about royalty and monarchy itself ( the majority of the people).
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  #894  
Old 04-05-2018, 08:32 AM
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I have always heard that the previous Letizia, before meeting Felipe was a completely different person. Warm, overactive, talkative and with a strong personality. The now Letizia is different. She has been pressing herself in order to fit to the role, or at least to how she thought she would be, and the result is this distant and cold person. Maybe sometimes this constant pressure makes her explode and lose control, and behave like she did.
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  #895  
Old 04-05-2018, 08:36 AM
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As part of PR going forward, for the institution and the family, Letizia has to seem that she is ceding control over her daughters, especially Leonor. It will do them both some good, the mother will be seen as non-controlling, and that she understands Leonor belongs to Spain, and the daughter will stop seeming so overprotected and sheltered and very fragile. She is very young but unfortunately also heir, not heir to their heir, she is next in line. That it appears as if she is getting ready for her role must be highlighted. It is just most practical for her to start with appropriate engagements, perhaps alone with her father. She has to go abroad with school groups, do things with peers, visit other parts of Spain with adult supervision but not with her parents, take part in Spanish festivals, be seen taking part in talleres in carefully selected Spanish institutions, etc etc. Something's gotta give in that household.
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  #896  
Old 04-05-2018, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by moby View Post
As part of PR going forward, for the institution and the family, Letizia has to seem that she is ceding control over her daughters, especially Leonor. It will do them both some good, the mother will be seen as non-controlling, and that she understands Leonor belongs to Spain, and the daughter will stop seeming so overprotected and sheltered and very fragile. She is very young but unfortunately also heir, not heir to their heir, she is next in line. That it appears as if she is getting ready for her role must be highlighted. It is just most practical for her to start with appropriate engagements, perhaps alone with her father. She has to go abroad with school groups, do things with peers, visit other parts of Spain with adult supervision but not with her parents, take part in Spanish festivals, be seen taking part in talleres in carefully selected Spanish institutions, etc etc. Something's gotta give in that household.
Congratulations on your first 1.000 posts, moby.

I agree. The focus should now be on Leonor in particular.
She, sadly, needs to be distanced from her mother and grandmother to a larger degree.
It's some burden to put on a child, but for her own good, she needs to be seen as the future (a hopefully distant future) - and that the future is something to look forward to. That she is an interesting, likable and approachable person. A bit akin to Victoria in Sweden when she was a late teen.

Some outings with her father and grandfather might do much more to restore the image of the SRF than any silly utterings from "friends" on both sides.

ADDED:

Daily Mail today: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar....html#comments

And for once I read the comments which in general I found more telling than the articles.
It provides an idea of the international view on this episode, as it is seen by people who are at best half-informed about the SRF.
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  #897  
Old 04-05-2018, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
One more friend who is talking?!? With friends like that, who needs enemies...
The argument about protecting the daughters from being photographed can be shot down in a second.

A) It was the royal photographer.
B) Her very experienced mother-in-law, posed with the girls and we must presume she has a pretty good idea what she's doing.
C) The press corps was waiting right outside the cathedral.
D) There were lots of people inside the cathedral taking photos, some of them now doubt from within an arm reach, since the girls walked around greeting people.
E) It was a high profile public event.

- That "friend" has done more harm than good.
Very well stated. Essentially the friend is saying Letizia wanted to "protect" her daughters from their grandmother's wish to be photographed with them, but as you point out they were in public with cameras all around. To me it still seems disrespectful to Sofia, not to mention overly controlling on Letizia's part.
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  #898  
Old 04-05-2018, 09:07 AM
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What I see in the videos and is very questionable for me is that I see Queen Sofia kiss Leonor’s head and then what I perceive is that Letizia runs her hand over the place where Sofía kissed. Why?

The girls are completely lost when someone else is not with them.
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  #899  
Old 04-05-2018, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by moby View Post
As part of PR going forward, for the institution and the family, Letizia has to seem that she is ceding control over her daughters, especially Leonor. It will do them both some good, the mother will be seen as non-controlling, and that she understands Leonor belongs to Spain, and the daughter will stop seeming so overprotected and sheltered and very fragile.[...]
To be fair towards Letizia: I can not see much over-protection of Doña Leonor. Compared with her Dutch "colleague" Princess Amalia, Doña Leonor is very visible for public and media...

The difference maybe is that when these princesses are visible, the one accompanying mother looks like carefree, relaxed, confident and enjoying it all. This while the other accompanying mother looks tense, unsecure and under pressure.

It is more the non-verbal communication than the "over protection" thing, I think.
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  #900  
Old 04-05-2018, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Princess Xenia View Post
What I see in the videos and is very questionable for me is that I see Queen Sofia kiss Leonor’s head and then what I perceive is that Letizia runs her hand over the place where Sofía kissed. Why?
To wipe out any remnants of lipstick ?
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