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  #861  
Old 04-05-2018, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by leidi View Post
It's a combination of factors, there's a lot going on in Spain politically speaking (tons of corruption cases, falsifying university degrees by politicians, the Catalan Procés, the Basques asking for more money, etc) and the monarchy should be the rock, the foundation of the country and if you can't even trust them not to "fight" in public, then people ask themselves: what do we have them for? what are we paying them for?
I feel bad for Felipe. He clearly loves his role and being King. He wants the monarchy to be strong and be there for Leonor. Sucks this has happened.
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  #862  
Old 04-05-2018, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by W.Y.CII View Post
Yes, everyone in this case can handle it better, it's quite weird to see Letizia is the only one who is being blamed.
There always has been incredible double standards. If the roles of Letizia and Sofia had been reversed that day, Letizia would still be the one to be blamed. Look at this woman, when the rest of her families were greeting the guests, she was standing at the center of the church grabbing her daughters and posing for the camera. After so many years, she still didn't know how to behave ! Her MIL tried to stop her, she dared to push her MIL's law's hand away, threw a tantrum, what a bitch blah blah blah :bang !

There were talks of Felipe usually taking the girls to Zarzuela to meet his parents Friday afternoon. There was no proof that Sofia almost had no chance of seeing the girls. Maybe Sofia herself hadn't been spending much time in Spain. Let's blame Letizia for that too.
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  #863  
Old 04-05-2018, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by leidi View Post
It's a combination of factors, there's a lot going on in Spain politically speaking (tons of corruption cases, falsifying university degrees by politicians, the Catalan Procés, the Basques asking for more money, etc) and the monarchy should be the rock, the foundation of the country and if you can't even trust them not to "fight" in public, then people ask themselves: what do we have them for? what are we paying them for?
That's why I'm shocked this even happened, Letizia should have just let it go. She made a spectacle, over what? I thought she was more professional than this.

I'm actually neutral on Letizia, I think she's hard working but I also think she's cold and brittle. I haven't had any real aversion to her until this incident.

But seeing her lose control like this makes me wonder what is going on behind closed doors, and how much it affects the business of government. Inter-family warfare like this can undermine the common person without the responsibilities Felipe carries, I have to imagine it's very disheartening. The look on his face during this episode
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  #864  
Old 04-05-2018, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Missy- View Post
That's why I'm shocked this even happened, Letizia should have just let it go. She made a spectacle, over what? I thought she was more professional than this.

I'm actually neutral on Letizia, I think she's hard working but I also think she's cold and brittle. I haven't had any real aversion to her until this incident.

But seeing her lose control like this makes me wonder what is going on behind closed doors, and how much it affects the business of government. Inter-family warfare like this can undermine the common person without the responsibilities Felipe carries, I have to imagine it's very disheartening. The look on his face during this episode
I truly felt bad for Felipe. This has undermined all the work he has done for the past 4 years.
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  #865  
Old 04-05-2018, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Missy- View Post
That's why I'm shocked this even happened, Letizia should have just let it go. She made a spectacle, over what? I thought she was more professional than this.

I'm actually neutral on Letizia, I think she's hard working but I also think she's cold and brittle. I haven't had any real aversion to her until this incident.

But seeing her lose control like this makes me wonder what is going on behind closed doors, and how much it affects the business of government. Inter-family warfare like this can undermine the common person without the responsibilities Felipe carries, I have to imagine it's very disheartening. The look on his face during this episode
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
I truly felt bad for Felipe. This has undermined all the work he has done for the past 4 years.
Exactly, things like these are all over Twitter:

https://twitter.com/Laenca00/status/981612134600728582

The sign says something like "Borbones to the elections. Head of State by ballot, not by cradle"
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  #866  
Old 04-05-2018, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Missy- View Post
[...]

But seeing her lose control like this makes me wonder what is going on behind closed doors, and how much it affects the business of government.

[...]
The business of government continues to run perfectly fine. King Felipe has only a ceremonial role, as all modern monarchs, and an overreacting Letizia really has zero influence on Government.
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  #867  
Old 04-05-2018, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The business of government continues to run perfectly fine. King Felipe has only a ceremonial role, as all modern monarchs, and an overreacting Letizia really has zero influence on Government.
It's actually a bit more complicated than that these days, because the only institution that is actually bringing (by Constitution) the country together is the Monarchy, if there's a call for a Constitutional reform to remove the monarchy, the country could actually break apart, it would open a huge can of worms most of us really don't need.

Any kind of instability in the Crown is utterly inconvenient at this time, couldn't have happened at a worst moment and people would take any silly thing to try to bring them down.
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  #868  
Old 04-05-2018, 02:06 AM
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It’s obvious that Leonor did...not...want...to...be...in...a..stranglehold...embrace...by...her...grandmother.

She was staring directly into Letizia’s eyes, pleading for help. My son didn’t want his dear granny doing that to him when he was 12, either. I see this as an ongoing problem, and it happens to grandparents of all sorts. I hope Sofia comes to understand this before her rapport with both girls is lost.
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  #869  
Old 04-05-2018, 02:14 AM
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It's like we are watching completely different thing as I don't see how “lose control” Letizia is.

What I see: Sofia wanted to take the girls for photography, at the same time Letizia passed by in front of them in order to greet the crowd > Letizia came back and touched Lenor's hair, at the same time Leonore pushed Sofia's hand away from her shoulder > Sofia and Letizia discussed/argued something and later Felipe joined in > Leonor pushed Sofia's hand again and Sofia tried to grab her back, but finally she let the girls go.

And Letizia is blamed for “fighting” with her MIL, blamed for Leonor's misbehaviors.

I said that before, all of them should be able to handle it better and Letizia shouldn't be the only one be blamed. Some people are like, “Letizia's inappropriate behavior is going to destroy the Bourbon”.
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  #870  
Old 04-05-2018, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by leidi View Post
It's actually a bit more complicated than that these days, because the only institution that is actually bringing (by Constitution) the country together is the Monarchy, if there's a call for a Constitutional reform to remove the monarchy, the country could actually break apart, it would open a huge can of worms most of us really don't need.

Any kind of instability in the Crown is utterly inconvenient at this time, couldn't have happened at a worst moment and people would take any silly thing to try to bring them down.
Yeah I like monarchies because like you said it keeps the country together. It was stupid for Letizia to act like that in front of the world to see.
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  #871  
Old 04-05-2018, 02:30 AM
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I am really shocked about the proportions this is getting, the image that the Queen is the most hated woman in Spain. Yes Sofia grabbed the kids to pose for a photo, the girls don't really look happy but what can you do, I am sure this situation is something they have experienced a million times before in the past 10 years with their grandmother, because this is what she does. The photographer is part of casareal and there is no harm in the situation other than the girls a bit annoyed.

I still don't understand Letizia's reaction, trying to block the photo or going up against her MIL in public with cameras everywhere, she could have put her on the spot at home.

Felipe is now probably the most pitied man in Spain, having to endure the women's quarrels at home. JC's face is priceless !!!
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  #872  
Old 04-05-2018, 02:45 AM
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https://twitter.com/elespanolcom/sta...83455141892101

"Sofía the eternal sufferer of the Royal House: the letdowns she's suffered at the hands of her husband, her daughter-in-law and her granddaughter"

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  #873  
Old 04-05-2018, 02:48 AM
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It is my firm belief that you should always take a step back and try to find a positive angle, no matter how cynical it may be.

The positive angle is that as long as this incident is the dominant topic all over Spain (and elsewhere) people don't focus that much on other issues. So I bet there are quite a few politicians who are leaning back in the chair and placing their feet on the table.

Each time royals screw up there are loads of commentators and comments calling for a republic and questioning the monarchy. The approval ratings will drop for a while, a few years at worst, then climb up again.
At least this incident "humanize" the royals. I.e. they have their family quarrels like everybody else, which sometimes flare up.
The Spanish royal family has been through worse than this.

It's my observation that every royal family have the "good guys" whom the vast majority of the public look up to, admire and even worship. They are countered by the "villain". In Spanish RF that lot has fallen on Queen Letizia. Whether that is justified or not is besides the point. Queen Letizia is currently the villain and will remain so until someone better suited comes along...

So the main task as I see it, is to focus on good PR for Leonor in particular. Right now she is the daughter of an obviously very unpopular mother, and that can rub off. Because until King Felipe has established himself as a respected and hopefully popular man, that won't rub off to nearly the same extent. - The world can be cruel as you know.
So if Queen Sofia is the one who PR-wise have come out with most of the public sympathy on her side, she should be seen doting on her granddaughters. Showing in public how fond they are of each other, without making it too obvious. Since they seemingly are very fond of each other, that shouldn't be too difficult IMO.

If I were King Felipe and I learned that my eldest daughter got a part of the blame for this mess, I would be roaring for hours!
And if Marie Chantal merely express a sentiment shared by the rest of that branch of the extended family, I sincerely hope King Felipe will in no uncertain terms tell her to either stay quiet in the future - or stay away!
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  #874  
Old 04-05-2018, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leidi View Post
https://twitter.com/elespanolcom/sta...83455141892101

"Sofía the eternal sufferer of the Royal House: the letdowns she's suffered at the hands of her husband, her daughter-in-law and her granddaughter"

Someone sell that narrative to a telenovela screenwriter, pronto!
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  #875  
Old 04-05-2018, 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ANNIE_S View Post
Someone sell that narrative to a telenovela screenwriter, pronto!
I am surprised Peñafiel hasn't come out yet, this is what he's been waiting for years

I expect this to be a discussion in Sálvame or one of Teresa Campos shows for like WEEKS
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  #876  
Old 04-05-2018, 03:15 AM
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the lipreaders claim that JC waves his son to him and tells Felipe 'we have to discuss this' and Felipe responds 'now is not the time'.
before that, Felipe told both women to stop what they were doing.
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  #877  
Old 04-05-2018, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
Yeah I like monarchies because like you said it keeps the country together. It was stupid for Letizia to act like that in front of the world to see.
Royals are humans too.

There are clearly some deep unresolved issues here and for whatever reason something triggered this IMO irrational and not very sensible reaction from Queen Letizia.
It has happened to all of us.

But it's also because royals are humans that is the reason why we can relate to them.
Most of the time the royal try to live up to the high standards we expect from them, and succeed. But sometimes they slip and it is here we should be forgiving. - As long as they don't make a habit of it!

Okay, I don't follow the Spanish royal very much, but like everybody else, I have a "first impression" of the SRF members. Including Queen Letizia.(Admittedly I do find her a little cold.)
So permit me to play the devil's advocate here and turn things around. That's always healthy:

What if Queen Letizia is the one who is unfairly treated?

She has a husband, whom she feels does not support her enough.
She has a mother-in-law who is pushy, disrespectful, domineering, prone to humiliating her daughter-in-law. On top of that Queen Sofia and her family can't stand the sight of her.
A father-in-law, whom she felt did not support and help her, while he was reigning king.
The press and the public have been after her from day one. And that to the extent that she feels that even if she single-handed saved 10 children from a burning orphanage, she would be blamed for the fire...
And now she snapped in public.

So my questions to you are:
Have you tried look at it from Queen Letizia's point of view? No matter how much you dislike her.
Could there be a degree of truth in this?
I ask you because I don't know the SRF well enough to form a qualified opinion.
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  #878  
Old 04-05-2018, 03:46 AM
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Hello. The video has been over the TV worldwide. I don't understand why Letizia made such a mess, unless she did it on purpose, in order to show to the entire world this SHE is the master and no-one else.
Practically speaking: where was the issue ?
A royal princess born and Queen for almost 40 years, tried to do one of the actions all royal families do on front of people and press:a family photo. She did not violented a baby, nor put them in a difficult and uncomfortable situation. Leonor is supposed to become a queen one day, she should have already learned the appearance rules. Her behavior is impolite and unfriendly towards a grandmother, even non royal, a grandmother feels miserable when she is rejected while trying to cuddle her grandaughter, unless this grandaughter is raised without live for the grandma. So something wrong with girls education.
Now, as mother, even when seing something wrong in her daughter's behaviour, she should interfere with calm, to solve situation and not make it worst.
He body move in the video was pathetic, moving like an hysterical automate machine, make stupid actions like arranging her daughter's hair and impeaching the photos. What does she think she is?
Even if she has some painful moments related to the family's behaviour towards her, it was not the moment and place to solve it.
And she should never forget the main point. She is there, where she is now, thanks to King Juan Carlos who managed to keep the throne despite all instability in Spain for decades and who gave the throne to his son. And also thanks to Queen Sofia who supported her son to marry Letizia against all.
Otherwise she should be still a vague unknown journalist to a local channel.
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  #879  
Old 04-05-2018, 03:57 AM
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Do you really see the videos?... The real ones, not the ones that have the whole plane cut ...

There is only ONE photographer inside the church, who is in front of Sofia and with whom Sofia speaks. As there is only one camera operator.

Any real follower of the Royal Family knows that photographer perfectly and sees how he normally does his work. The press in the Cathedral of Palma is located outside on the side of the square, far away in the opposite angle to which Sofia is situated.

That photographer makes photos for the House and the Family, and it is the press department that selects the photos that hands out. A picture of Sofia alone with her granddaughters was for her.

The problem is not obviously that Sofia wants to take the picture, the problem is that it is not the place or the moment. Sofia's gesture to the people who are greeting the Royal Family, how she separates her granddaughter from a lady (who is whom Letizia greets later), it is for me the worst of the whole situation, because it does not affect what normal frictions between family members may be, it affects the treatment they give to citizens who spend their time going to see and greet them. Because that photographer can take the photo at any time and not at a time when they leave the people aside and the girls are already saturated.

I have commented many times, Sofia was also criticized without mercy, but then there was no Internet ... when Sofia got older, the criticisms went to Felipe's girlfriends, then to Marichalar and finally to Letizia ... and at some point the girls will start to be more interesting than her and the critics will go there. It is the Spanish essence amplified with social networks.

In the script of the press Queen Sofia, is now a poor victim, the sufferer of an unfaithful husband, who suffers the family's dramas. Obviously it is an exaggerated portrait, but that within history sells well. But make no mistake ... people do not forget her support for Urgangarin, her constant trips outside Spain when she was queen (still many people say that she lives in London) or her comments about homosexuals ...

This type of viral reactions respond to many things. Somehow this frivolous subject, has served to break a vicious circle related to the Catalan theme of which people were saturated, has given another topic to talk about.
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  #880  
Old 04-05-2018, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
The problem is not obviously that Sofia wants to take the picture, the problem is that it is not the place or the moment. Sofia's gesture to the people who are greeting the Royal Family, how she separates her granddaughter from a lady (who is whom Letizia greets later), it is for me the worst of the whole situation, because it does not affect what normal frictions between family members may be, it affects the treatment they give to citizens who spend their time going to see and greet them. Because that photographer can take the photo at any time and not at a time when they leave the people aside and the girls are already saturated.
Even if you are right, this situation will not have occurred for the first time, what about Letizia's reaction? Why does she feel the need to do what she does in front everybody, press is filming into the church, people have smartphones, move out of the way and let her take that picture and tell her afterwards ... I am not saying that what Sofia did was right but she did what she usually does, posing with her granddaughters when she gets the chance, but Letizia's reaction to it was equally wrong, she should have known better.
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