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  #761  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by moby View Post
Ugh, that would be terrible. If true, no wonder Letizia is tense. Imagine having that kind of relationship with extended family, your MIL talking about you behind your back, being blamed for how your husband treated your errant SIL, etc. The isolation must be intense, and her daughters and husband her only allies. I hope that regardless of what Sofia shares with her side of the family, that she calls out Marie Chantal for her public comments.

After all this, ironically, it is Letizia's commoner, immediate family that comes out classiest.
Like her "republican" aunt who has bashed her and the royal house or the cousin who has gone to TV to tell all about the stuff Letizia did before being queen?
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  #762  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
A very offensive looking picture. And that to lady who is daughter of a King, sister to a King, wife to a King, mother of a King, sister-in-law to a Queen and who is Queen herself for 43 years!
this is one of the famous fotos to suggest a rift between the women but its out of context.

this is another one:
http://i41.tinypic.com/1z5k6xe.jpg

and some more that usually come up to prove a marriage crisis:
https://media.giphy.com/media/7YQvQiWqDfJkY/giphy.gif
https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/mark...403715_600.jpg
https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/mark...403619_600.jpg
https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/mark...403413_300.jpg
https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/mark...401663_600.jpg
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  #763  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by moby View Post
Letizia is generally getting the blame. A lot of commenters are saying Leonor was disrespectful to her grandmother, and that her mother must have not taught her well (that tone, of varying permutation of different words).
It is interesting that some American (and, to a lesser extent, British) posters here seem to side with Letizia based on the prenise that the "mother always knows best" and has "precedence over the grandmother", or that Queen Sofia was being "abusive". I won't go into the merits of those arguments, but it suffices to say that they match some American cultural perceptions about family. In the Spanish culture, however, I see that most people take it as the mother and the child being disrespectful to a family elder/matriarch. Are we seeing a clash of cultures here ?
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  #764  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by moby View Post
Ugh, that would be terrible. If true, no wonder Letizia is tense. Imagine having that kind of relationship with extended family, your MIL talking about you behind your back, being blamed for how your husband treated your errant SIL, etc. The isolation must be intense, and her daughters and husband her only allies. I hope that regardless of what Sofia shares with her side of the family, that she calls out Marie Chantal for her public comments.
I think many people can relate!!
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  #765  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by moby View Post
After all this, ironically, it is Letizia's commoner, immediate family that comes out classiest.

Her family all appear to be nice all except her dreadful aunt Henar!

Its a wonder she has not been tweeting her opinions.
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  #766  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by leidi View Post
Like her "republican" aunt who has bashed her and the royal house or the cousin who wrote a book about all the stuff Letizia did before being queen?
I said immediate. The comments come after seeing how her mother and sister handled the press hounding them today. And I absolutely liked how unassuming they looked. They look like anybody you meet at the autobus and the streets.
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  #767  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Queen Sofía stood by her son and supported him fully in his choice for Letizia Ortiz. So Doña Sofía was Letizia's ally in the palace.
Yes she was an ally in public but behind the scenes it was probably more like 'you want it you get it'.
Following the 'priceless example of the Queen', as Letizia said on her engagement day, has probably been a more than difficult task.
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  #768  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Not at all. Royal Houses are no box of cereals or a brand of electronics. All this will wave aside and calm down again.
Believe me, Royal Houses do have PR firms working for them...and with all the turbulence that the SRF has gone through these past few years, I'm sure they have made good use of a few professionals. But you may be right: this will certainly calm down again but it will be dug up over and over again at "convenient" times.
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  #769  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:42 PM
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It was just on Euronews

Spain stunned by video of tense scene between Queens Letizia and Sofia

Spain stunned by video of tense scene between Queens Letizia and Sofia | Euronews

Hello are running with it

https://www.hellomagazine.com/royalt...o-queen-sofia/
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  #770  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by moby View Post
Ugh, that would be terrible. If true, no wonder Letizia is tense. Imagine having that kind of relationship with extended family, your MIL talking about you behind your back, being blamed for how your husband treated your errant SIL, etc. The isolation must be intense, and her daughters and husband her only allies. I hope that regardless of what Sofia shares with her side of the family, that she calls out Marie Chantal for her public comments.

After all this, ironically, it is Letizia's commoner, immediate family that comes out classiest.
What a nonsense. We have heard nothing from the Spanish royal family. Only from the "classy" commoner Marie-Chantal who blabbed her opinion in a tweet.

Queen Sofía is her husband's aunt. It is very well possible Marie-Chantal had witnessed in very own person how Letizia really is behind the doors. Your blame thay Queen Sofía has talked about Letizia et al is pure speculation on your behalf.

Note that Queen Sofía is known as a Sphinx. She sees all, hears all and her lips are sealed. She once said: Queens have no friends. The only one she is completely open to is her sister Princess Irene, the only person who understands what it is to have lived a life like that of Doña Sofía.
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  #771  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:54 PM
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her lips are sealed
MDR.. 'would that 'Saint Sofia's' lips WERE sealed'...MORE than once she has alienated a proportion of her compatriots...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-587673.html
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  #772  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
It is interesting that some American (and, to a lesser extent, British) posters here seem to side with Letizia based on the prenise that the "mother always knows best" and has "precedence over the grandmother", or that Queen Sofia was being "abusive". I won't go into the merits of those arguments, but it suffices to say that they match some American cultural perceptions about family. In the Spanish culture, however, I see that most people take it as the mother and the child being disrespectful to a family elder/matriarch. Are we seeing a clash of cultures here ?
Perhaps.

However, just as protective and loving parents can be in regards to their children, we should not discount the very strong feelings many, if not most, grandparents (fortunately) have for their grandchildren.
Don't get between a child and its parent, but in many cases don't get between a child and its grandparents either!

My wife and I will fight for our children, but my in-laws will happily go to jail for their grandchildren as well.
There is no reason IMO to suggest that Queen Sofia doesn't have very strong feelings for her granddaughters either. In fact it's my immediate impression that she is very fond of them.
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  #773  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
Are you sure? They weren't just guiding him to walk backwards, they seemed to be tugging on him to get him away.
The one with the video camera (maybe he was recording the incident) was 'removed'. The guy with the photocamera was walking around freely in the church but gave up as he saw that no picture was to be taken and left the church just after the one with the video camera.
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  #774  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
What a nonsense. We have heard nothing from the Spanish royal family. Only from the "classy" commoner Marie-Chantal who blabbed her opinion in a tweet.

Queen Sofía is her husband's aunt. It is very well possible Marie-Chantal had witnessed in very own person how Letizia really is behind the doors. Your blame thay Queen Sofía has talked about Letizia et al is pure speculation on your behalf.

Note that Queen Sofía is known as a Sphinx. She sees all, hears all and her lips are sealed. She once said: Queens have no friends. The only one she is completely open to is her sister Princess Irene, the only person who understands what it is to have lived a life like that of Doña Sofía.
Umm, wasn't this the same person who voiced out her opinions on Roman Catholics, abortion, euthanasia, same sex marriage that caused a scandal some years back?

And when quoting me, pls include the speculation I was reacting to so there's some context, thanks!
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  #775  
Old 04-04-2018, 05:00 PM
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People don't dislike Letizia because she's a commoner, they actually hated Marichalar far much more at one point, the issue here is that she comes out as terribly forceful (and not in a good way), as a domineering personality that doesn't add to the Crown.

So let's not start with the "oh poor victim" thing because that's not true.

Letizia simply hasn't earned respect or being liked, not enough to make sure that things aren't always blamed on her.
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  #776  
Old 04-04-2018, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
I always hated when the British royals puts more favor to the heirs. Its not right. But I do not think Leonor will become rebellious. She seems more mature for her age.
What maturity do you recognize in her? I mainly see a very docile child.
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  #777  
Old 04-04-2018, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by leidi View Post
People don't dislike Letizia because she's a commoner, they actually hated Marichalar far much more at one point, the issue here is that she comes out as terribly forceful (and not in a good way), as a domineering personality that doesn't add to the Crown.

So let's not start with the "oh poor victim" thing because that's not true.

Letizia simply hasn't earned respect or being liked, not enough to make sure that things aren't always blamed on her.
So she should adhere to stereotypical qualities of womanhood in order to qualify as likeable in Spain?
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  #778  
Old 04-04-2018, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by M. Payton View Post
I very much agree with you and Lady Nimue for Queen Sofia did have Lenore in a *choke-hold* and it was probably getting very uncomfortable for her. Maybe Queen Sofia did not realize just how tight she was holding Lenore by putting her arm around the neck for after all Lenore is still a child, not a young adult yet. I saw Queen Sofia pulling her around with her arm around her neck like a rag doll....no wonder Lenore pushed her arm away and then Queen Letizia went over to check on her daughter which in turn made Queen Sofia put her arm around Lenore's neck even tighter.......family spat and stop the blame game on Letizia for after all she is the MOTHER of these girls, not Sofia or anyone else. Sofia needs to learn her place in this family, she is not the mother, just a grandmother who is acting like she is the one in control of the family.
Sophia only puts her hand up closer to Leonor's neck to pull her towards her (which she probably shouldn't have done) AFTER Letizia's interference. Before Leonor was fine as her grandmother's hands were at a very logical position: upper arm/shoulder. So, had Letizia not interfered Leonor would have been perfectly fine and no scene had been created.
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  #779  
Old 04-04-2018, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
So she should adhere to stereotypical qualities of womanhood in order to qualify as likeable in Spain?
No, one thing is to be a strong independent woman and another to be a domineering... well you know the word.

She comes across as terribly possessive of her daughters for example, often using them as shields in acts, keeps touching their hair, their faces, etc.
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  #780  
Old 04-04-2018, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Sadly this 'regrettable incident' will ensure that EVERY future appearance of Queens Letizia and Sofia together are pored over in the minutest detail for the tiniest signs of discord between them..
The children will 'cope', it is the King and the institution itself I most sorry for .
[Oh to be 'a fly on the Wall' at the Zarzuela when they all got home !]
They were all staying at Marivent; so couldn't even go to their separate homes
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