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  #661  
Old 04-04-2018, 11:57 AM
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could make things VERY difficult for her
We CANNOT know the real state of the relationship betwixt these two Women, but I hope Queen [emeritus] Sofia understands that she 'has had her day', and that Queen Letizia IS the current Queen of Spain, and should be deferred to accordingly.
In addition, a Mothers instincts will ALWAYS trump a Grandmothers when it comes to HER Children.
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  #662  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
We CANNOT know the real state of the relationship betwixt these two Women, but I hope Queen [emeritus] Sofia understands that she 'has had her day', and that Queen Letizia IS the current Queen of Spain, and should be deferred to accordingly.
In addition, a Mothers instincts will ALWAYS trump a Grandmothers when it comes to HER Children.
I disagree. The late Queen Elizabeth, the late Queen Fabiola, Princess Beatrix, Queen Paola, they remain(ed) forefront figures and were (are) treated with all égards. This is not just a granny. This is Queen Sofía. This formidable lady has not endured Franco's dictatorship, the colonels in Greece, the military coup in Spain and her husband's eccentrics to get such a reaction in public, right aftet Easter Mass in the middle of Palma and in front of all and everyone.

The baffled reactions of Don Juan Carlos and Don Felipe said enough.
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  #663  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:20 PM
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I think that Letizia didn't want Sofia to be photographed solely with the girls, inside the church. Obviously she wanted the whole family to be photographed together. Maybe they had agreed for it. Maybe Letizia feels that Sophia takes advantage of the little girls in front of the cameras and she wants to draw a clear line as the new royal family away from the old one and its scandals.
The video is as Letizia yells out, away from my daughters.

As to MC, it is clearer than sun for me that this reaction is directed from Sofia herself. I doubt MC would have the courage to make such a ridiculous comment without having discussed it previously, and taking the necessary permission!! For me, MC 's comment is Sofia's revenge for the unlucky incident in the church against Letizia.
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  #664  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
I suppose prince Felipe needed less 'uplifting' than some other (former) heirs . I find the assumption that the wife is responsible for how the husband behaves rather archaic.
It's actually quite sexist x) The woman is always a mother. Even to her own husband
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  #665  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by dbarn67 View Post
Letizia is very upset about the incident according to her close friend.

https://www.semana.es/galeria/letizi...-inma-aguilar/
So the gist is that Letizia is just a mother who worries a lot about who approaches her daughters, who takes pictures of them, about their image, etc. She was reacting as a mother. Which I guess would be a reasonable reaction if a strange man had popped out of nowhere and was approaching one of the children. But what started this situation was a grandmother and a Queen of Spain agreeing to a request from apparently one of the photographers used by the royal house for a picture with her granddaughters, The Princess of Asturias and an Infanta of Spain. There is no reasonable explanation for Letizia refusing to let that happen. If Letizia’s concerns about her daughters and their image run that deep then, for her own sake but especially for the sake of her daughters, I hope she gets some help. Because the girls are rapidly approaching the age where all of this will be outside Letizia’s control entirely. In a few years she’ll wish her biggest problem was grandma trying to sneak a picture at Easter mass.

Letizia doesn’t seem to understand that her daughters don’t belong only to her. Leonor, especially, belongs to Spain as well. The couple and their daughters have no qualms about taking advantage of all the immense privileges this special status affords them. But when it’s time to give something back - like a nice picture of the girls with their grandmother at Easter, like a two word comment from Leonor about what she thought of a museum visit, like a photo session at Marivent that lasts longer than five minutes and doesn’t involve anyone looking surly and uptight - it’s just all too much.

BTW, it’s interesting that the friend gave this interview after speaking with Letizia since, as we’ve been assured multiple times on this very thread, Letizia doesn’t know how to play games or use the press to attempt to improve her image. Only Cristina and the evil people who care about Cristina engage in such low behaviour. And yet...
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  #666  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
Letizia, as on this occasion, is always criticized for every gesture she makes, there are always people willing to take everything out of context and to exaggerate it ... and against the members of the royal blood family ... she can never win. Sofia has many ugly gestures, wanting to impose a photo of her alone with the girls at a time that does not correspond... but she is forgiven. The members of blue blood can despise her without problems, but that she does not move.
Exactly what I saw. Sofia does not give up and it's very clear she wants very much to be photographed with Leonor. It's fascinating to me how differently these videos are interpreted when it seems to be very clear to me. Go figure. (BTW I went into this with absolutely no negative impressions regarding Sofia: I had no bias at the outset).

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Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
It seemed innocent at first to me. Letizia clearly goes up to her daughter to caress her or tuck her hair behind her ear and Sofia went off for whatever reason.
Exactly. Letizia seems utterly clueless. Sofia's actions with the children are definitely aggressive. Watch how Sofia pulls the children around like dolls with no consideration for them.

Very interesting that a video that so very clearly shows a rather unpleasant Queen Sofia and the back of Letizia (so we cannot see what is going on with Letizia) is still seen as reflecting badly on Letizia. I call that bias.

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Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
Grandma's ain't always cute and just because she's old, doesn't mean she can't be shady.
I had to laugh. It's true. My opinion of Sofia has gone from neutral to negative.

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Originally Posted by Livia View Post
Letizia was doing her job, and that was say goodbye to people, she even didn't notice the photographer was behind her and what her mother in law was trying to do, opinions shouldn't be made in base a video with no sound and when you have around 20 people or more, too many people, too many things to do, you reach a point where you don't know where you are, how to pose, if you have to smile or not depending of the situation.... and above all trying not to be unpolite with all these people who are waiting to greeting them or say their goodbyes. And everything with the threat Mallorca's Nationalism to be there making noise so security this year was more strong.
Well said! You've summed it up well what it's like to be in such a situation. Letizia clearly did not know what Sofia was trying to do, and you are right about how confusing it can be for anyone (even experienced celebrities) to be fully cognizant of all the parts moving in such a public situation. (Which is why celebrities have handlers in such situations exercising tight control; there was none of that here).

It was fascinating to see how Sofia doubled down to get the picture she wanted with Leonor. That's one feisty mother-in-law! Yet it's all on Letizia! Ouch!
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  #667  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
Letizia doesn’t seem to understand that her daughters don’t belong only to her. Leonor, especially, belongs to Spain as well. The couple and their daughters have no qualms about taking advantage of all the immense privileges this special status affords them. But when it’s time to give something back - like a nice picture of the girls with their grandmother at Easter, like a two word comment from Leonor about what she thought of a museum visit, like a photo session at Marivent that lasts longer than five minutes and doesn’t involve anyone looking surly and uptight - it’s just all too much.
There was no need for queen Sofia to take the girls to pose with her inside the church. When she, like everyone else, even the photographers who waited outside the church, knew that the family would pose together also when they were leaving the Mass.
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  #668  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by emmeleia View Post
I think that Letizia didn't want Sofia to be photographed solely with the girls, inside the church. Obviously she wanted the whole family to be photographed together.
The video is as Letizia yells out, away from my daughters.
.
I agree that Letizia probably had a one group photo only expectation/plan , but that is unreasonable. There is a difference between protecting the privacy of her daughters against media intrusion and not letting them pose with their grandmother for a photo taken by an official royal photographer (if the latter information provided by forum members is true, it makes Letizia's reaction even more baffling).

Again, see how. for example, Princess Estelle of Sweden, who is only 6 years old, is completely at ease in public . and compare it to Letizia's daughters in similar situations. There is a point where Letizia has to start to let go a little bit.
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  #669  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:09 PM
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.

I saw an overly eager grandmother(Q.Sophia) wanting to have a picture only with her granddaughters-not taking into account that Princess Sophia was in the middle of a greeting-and then Queen Letizia stepping in like an overly caring mother to stop her mother-in-law taking too much control over her babies. Nothing shocking, just a bit awkward for the princesses.
For me the shock was Marie-Chantal's comment(if it was really her comment) on twitter. It was deliberately malicious towards Queen Letizia. Why make a comment like this on twitter?! Just shut up and don't mingle in the internal affairs of your husband's aunt's family!!! Disgraceful!
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  #670  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
I disagree. The late Queen Elizabeth, the late Queen Fabiola, Princess Beatrix, Queen Paola, they remain(ed) forefront figures and were (are) treated with all égards.
.
Respectfully disagree. Beatrix has very much stepped away from the spotlight to make way for her son and daughter-in-law.

I agree with you Lady Nimue. I fail to see how this should reflect badly on Letizia when it's Sophia who practically has Leonor in a chokehold.
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  #671  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
There was no need for queen Sofia to take the girls to pose with her inside the church. When she, like everyone else, even the photographers who waited outside the church, knew that the family would pose together also when they were leaving the Mass.
Even if that’s true, does it justify Letizia refusing to let the picture be taken? Where was the potential harm? As long as the girls were safe - and they were - wouldn’t the best approach be to just let it go? Or, if it was something Letizia felt strongly about, for Felipe and Letizia to speak with Sofia later on in private?

Alternatively, absolutely, she could confront her mother in law in public and insist the photo not happen. And then deal with the public consequences.
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  #672  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
Respectfully disagree. Beatrix has very much stepped away from the spotlight to make way for her son and daughter-in-law.

I agree with you Lady Nimue. I fail to see how this should reflect badly on Letizia when it's Sophia who practically has Leonor in a chokehold.
With all due respect, Queen Sofia has stepped out of the spotlight far more than Priincess Beatrix IMHO. In fact, Queen Sofia has not attended any state banquet since the abdication, whereas Princess Beatrix attends most of them, even creating some embarassment to a guest like King Philippe of Belgium who, rather than proposing a toast to the health of King Willem-Alexander and Queen Maxima (as would be usual), was forced to include also Princess Beatrix in the toast, as if she were still some kind of "co-monarch".

The only negative thing I can say about Queen Sofia's attitude towards her daughter-in-law since the addication is that Sofia seems to be unwilliing to share her impressive tiaras like the Pearl and Diamond, the Cartier Loop, or the Mellerio Shell, but, again, maybe Letizia never actually asked to borrow them and is satisfied with wearing only the Floral and the big Fleur-de-Lys, which is reserved for the current queen only anyway.
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  #673  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
Respectfully disagree. Beatrix has very much stepped away from the spotlight to make way for her son and daughter-in-law.

I agree with you Lady Nimue. I fail to see how this should reflect badly on Letizia when it's Sophia who practically has Leonor in a chokehold.
Princess Beatrix is more out and about in public activities than Doña Sofía! Stepping away from the spotlight? Come on. Check the site of the Royal House.
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  #674  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:23 PM
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But Letizia is the Queen Consort to the current King. If Letizia did have a problem with it, Sofia should have known better to react so agressively in public, let alone in front of someone who outranks her.
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  #675  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
Even if that’s true, does it justify Letizia refusing to let the picture be taken?
This has been the interpretation put upon Letizia walking in front of the threesome back-and-forth. However, it is clear that Letizia walks back-and-forth for quite other reasons than Sofia being with the children. I'm not sure why it keeps getting repeated that Letizia was trying to stop the picture? Can anyone explain?

BTW I notice that a common action from the adults is to touch the hair of the girls. This may be a nervous gesture (like a woman touching her own hair), or it could be a way of getting the child's full attention when about to give them instructions, though it may also be a comforting gesture for the girls (they do seem to expect it and glow when so touched). I don't see it as controlling in the least, and both Sofia and Letizia (and I think Felipe) do this gesture.
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  #676  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:42 PM
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Well I've read all the comments and watched every video from every angle about a thousand times. My two cents:

Sofia notices the photographer (one of only a few allowed inside so likely the official photographer or one at least on good enough terms to be permitted so close)
He indicates through a look or gesture he wants to take a photo, maybe even just raising his camera ready to take a shot. Sofia, quite instinctively I imagine, pulls her granddaughters in close to her for the picture.
The girls and Sofia are all smiling and seem quite happy
Then Letizia steps in front of the photographer so the shot can not be taken. This does seem IMO quite accidental as first, its very busy at the back of the church so its understandable people are getting in the way of each other.
Sofia moves position with the girls to try and get a clear shot for the photo, she seems quite smily and happy, almost amused by it.
Felipe sees what is going on and tries to guide Letizia out of the way
HERE is where is goes wrong IMO. Letizia could of just moved out the way and allowed the photo.
Instead she stops the photo by staying in the way and trying to brush it off by playing with Leonor's hair as a way to look like she has a purpose to be standing right in front of the group to prevent a photo. Here, IMO, Letizia is in the wrong.
Sofia is having none of it and pulls the girls in closer while getting cross at Letizia as it has become clearer she doesn't want the picture to be taken. Here Sofia is in the wrong and could have just walked away but emotion gets the better of her.
Leonor pulls away, maybe just sick of the whole incident and possibly fed up of waiting for a photo that obviously now isn't going to happen.
Sofia seems really upset when she walks out the church and tried to pose again with the girls and Letizia is still there so she smiles and walks away.
They seem to be trying to look civilised before putting distance between themselves.

I appreciate everyone saying a mother is always right when it comes to her daughters but this isn't a stranger we are talking about, its their grandmother.
There is no good reason IMO not to allow the picture. They are about to walk out in public and could be photographed in all manner of combinations (Felipe, the girls, Sofia / Letizia, Juan Carlos, Felipe and on and on) by anyone who happens to be close enough. Why not just let this photographer who must be at least semi-official take a picture of the girls and their grandmother. If Letizia didn't want it made public after she could have, I am sure, prevented it from being released. Sofia obviously doesn't understand why the photo can't just be taken and I have to say neither do I. I get I am not privy to all the details of this royal family but out of anyone in the SRF Sofia seems to be most respectable and close to Felipe and his family. Yes, on reflection Sofia should have just let the whole thing drop and walked away but I think she truly dotes on her grandchildren so just wanted a photo and reacted with emotion, from the heart not her head.
I just don't see how a photo of her girls with Sofia could upset Letizia and that speaks IMO of a deeper issue. As for MC's comments it only adds to the feeling there is already tension there but really she should keep her nose out of it, very unusual for a royal, or any one with manners, to comment on twitter about a family matter.
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  #677  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:47 PM
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I am not a grandmother, but I have observed plenty of them.

When the grandkids are babies or toddlers, naturally they are embraced and snuggled quite a bit. But when the kids get older, most of them don’t want to be ‘handled’ and hugged quite so much. It may be that Leonor has expressed distaste at being touched so much. Not that there’s anything untoward or unwholesome going on, but children have the right to be free of being touched.
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  #678  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
. Maybe Sophia was trying to take advantage of a public situation to sneak in a photograph when she knows the parents wouldn’t approve.
Maybe, but Letizia could have been a bit more subtle in her protesting. Even Felipe looked in shock.
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  #679  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by emmeleia View Post
As to MC, it is clearer than sun for me that this reaction is directed from Sofia herself. I doubt MC would have the courage to make such a ridiculous comment without having discussed it previously, and taking the necessary permission!! For me, MC 's comment is Sofia's revenge for the unlucky incident in the church against Letizia.
I respectfully disagree. First, there was no need for that since the images (mostly) speak for themselves; secondly she has much more class than that.
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  #680  
Old 04-04-2018, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
Even if that’s true, does it justify Letizia refusing to let the picture be taken? Where was the potential harm? As long as the girls were safe - and they were - wouldn’t the best approach be to just let it go? Or, if it was something Letizia felt strongly about, for Felipe and Letizia to speak with Sofia later on in private?

Alternatively, absolutely, she could confront her mother in law in public and insist the photo not happen. And then deal with the public consequences.
I absolutely agree. Things of this nature should be dealt in private and in any case probably by Felipe, not Letizia. At the next occasion, they should arrange things differently.
Both women risked upsetting the girls enormously. Luckily, I must say, they reacted with great poise and dignity (Leonor's gesture toward her grandmother was purely instinctive).
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