Relationships between Members of the Spanish Royal Family

[Menarue]

Although I agree with you Lucien up to a point, remember that there is a huge difference in attitude between some royal families and others. There was a time when it was not that certain that the Spanish royal family would regain their throne and they had to be careful who they married. Obviously Queen Sofia turned out to be a wonderful choice. I remember the controversy at the time that Prince Vittorio Emanuele married his commoner wife. Some royal families have always been more open to change than others.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by Menarue

Although I agree with you Lucien up to a point, remember that there is a huge difference in attitude between some royal families and others. There was a time when it was not that certain that the Spanish royal family would regain their throne and they had to be careful who they married. Obviously Queen Sofia turned out to be a wonderful choice. I remember the controversy at the time that Prince Vittorio Emanuele married his commoner wife. Some royal families have always been more open to change than others.

I believe I said the very same in different wordings.But we are talking Reigning Royal Houses,not pompous,degenerate & insignificant ones.
Allthough I have warm memories of the late Queen Marie-José,néé Princess of Belgium.

[Odette]

Originally Posted by lucien

Weak point,at this day and age,as well as 40 years ago,generations of Royals married outside their own inbreeded circles,a wise and refreshing decision.Think of the Sonja´s the Silvia´s Henrik´s,Claus´s...should I continue?Each RF has other demands/priorities so
each lives up to that.

It´s not much of an effort for HM Queen Sofia,she actually does like HRH Princess Letizia.A lot.

Lucien, 40years ago or more, King Olav was dead set against the marriage of P Harald with Sonja and he finally gave in after 10 years , K CG had no parents and he was the King at the time he was engaged to Silvia, GD Josephine Charlotte raised a lot of dust when P Henri brought over Maria Teresa. Q Ingrid was not exactlty ecstatic when Margrethe told her about Henrik....In total, they all accepted their children's choices, and at least in public they embraced the new comers. Letizia is no different and it is lovely that Q Sofia truly likes her a lot.
I am only commenting on what I see and read. I have no inside information and the last thing I mean to convey is that there is trouble.

[donnaK]

JC had also invovled with an Italian countess before Sofia. It was not like he had to give up his greatest love Princess Maria-Gabriel to marry the woman he didn't love Sofia, of course that was definitely a good story for the tabloids. The royal men of JC's generation have different views and limitations (since the law was set for them to marry equally) on marriages than the younger generation. Just because he had numerous affairs (nothing unusual for royal men of his generation), it doesn't mean he didn't (doesn't) love his wife.

[Menarue]

Originally Posted by lucien

I believe I said the very same in different wordings.But we are talking Reigning Royal Houses,not pompous,degenerate & insignificant ones.
Allthough I have warm memories of the late Queen Marie-José,néé Princess of Belgium.

Yes, I think we are saying the same thing. I can´t remember much about Queen Marie-José but I remember her younger daughters well, especially Beatriz, a lovely girl. I saw King Umberto a lot and the young Prince who was quite a handsome young man then and very attractive to the young ladies of Cascais.

[Guido]

Originally Posted by lula

The Princess of Asturias supports friendship before her wedding and has new friendship. The Princess has friends, journalists some of them, but these always have been very discreet ... it is not strange to read in the press that the Princess goes to the cinema or to having dinner with a friend. Also she has entered in touch with the friends of the Prince, there are many news of the Princes in dinners, birthdays or friends' weddings.

In general, the good friends of the Princes do not presume to be. The Princes are in the habit of being discreet in their exits, are not in the habit of coming to big parties or very crowded places.

Thank you, lula. Could you say some names of Letizia's friends ?

[PrincessofEurope]

Letizia and Elena at todays national day parade
Galerías de imágenes

[LadyFinn]

Letizia and Cristina today at the National Day Parade:
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Letizia and Elena
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Letizia and Queen Sofia
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[Zonk]

All the royal ladies look lovely, but Elena looks so serene and beautiful.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by madeleine victoria
That's really cute. He really made an effort to meet her. Now we know how their love begins...
Originally Posted by LadyFinn
El Comercio Digital/Algo sobre Letizia

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
The nice encounter mentioned in the article must have happened in the summer of 2003, when Felipe & Letizia were already a couple and probably even secretly engaged. I don't believe Felipe would have made his mother aware of Letizia in the summer of 2002 as they had not even been properly introduced back then, that only happened in October 2002. Felipe needed a careful strategy to get his parents involved and making his mother curious by watching boring TV news updates was a clever solution.

The article also mentions that there were no objections against Letizia. I don't believe a second that the Queen was charmed with the tought of a divorced woman on the Spanish throne from the very beginning. Not to forget, Queen Sofia is also a mother who relentlessly fought back another great love of her son, Eva Sannum, for 4 years, despite Felipe's desperate attempts to get her accepted by his family and the public, eg by leaking private holiday pics to the press or even taking her as his dinner partner to the wedding of CP Haakon and Mette-Marit. All in vain when the Kings finally disapproved and they had to split. In Letizia's case, Felipe was determined not to live through another desaster and let his parents spoil another relationship. There are lots of credible sources (eg the book "Tu seras mi Reina") that confirm that the Kings opposed to Letizia in the beginning but finally had to give in and let their son have his way. To say that there were never any objections is only a sugar-coated harmony version of the events.

From the day it was decided Queen Sofia transformed back into the Professional she is, doing her utmost to make her future daughter-in-law a success for the sake of the monarchy and a future monarch Philip VI.

Originally Posted by lula

Duke, this book is not a trustworthy source. The journalists who wrote it did it in one month, so a lot of time they did not dedicate. In addition, they are journalists, owners of an agency of gossip, and do not stand out for their ethics. It was written by persons who only worry for doing business, and that in numerous occasions have demonstrated their lack of ethics, professionalism, and their lack of scruples. They have sold persons of those who were saying to be friends, for the business, and have not had problems in paying to delinquents to damage to a woman that they do not like, using for it a girl.

So checks your sources of information, because you have chosen the worst.

I've moved the topic here, out of the current events topic.

I'm not insisting on the book lula, it just came to my mind as an example of many other - including so called "credible" - sources that confirmed it was not all well in the beginning - mentioned and discussed before in old threads on this forum. It actually makes sense that Queen Sofia was not happy about her precious son getting married to a divorcee instead of a royal or noble girl, at least in the beginning. And it also makes sense that Felipe was determined not to look like a fool again and fight for his choice this time after the sad end of the Eva Sannum saga. For example, as a consequence, he decided to extend his trip to New York (Letizia was there at the same time, as we learned later) instead of travelling back and attending the parade of National Day 2003 (his visit in NY officially ended on Oct 10th). The Royal House tried to downplay Felipe's absence but Sofia's face during the parade that day spoke volumes.

My point is that that Queen Sofia or the Kings were not too excited about Felipe's choice in the beginning, which is not only well documented in numerous sources but also makes perfectly sense when looking at the "big picture". No matter what Queen Sofia now dictates into Pilar Urbano's note pad, I am not buying the sugary version "all was well from the very beginning" for the sake of a harmonious legacy.

[Carminha Stalker]

I admire greatly Queen Sofia, not only because IMO she is a regal person, a true Queen. I also understand her task in trying to bring some equilibrium between the various members of her immediate family. The two Infantas (Elena and Cristina) used to be very close to Letizia. I don´t know what happened that nowadays they aren´t so close to Letizia. Once more, Queen Sofia, who is a loving grandmother, shares herself with all grandchildren equally. But it is strange, really that we don´t see Leonor and Irene interrracting, as they probably should, being of the same age, just like Froilán and Juan are best friends as well as cousins.

[Winnie]

Originally Posted by Carminha Stalker

I admire greatly Queen Sofia, not only because IMO she is a regal person, a true Queen. I also understand her task in trying to bring some equilibrium between the various members of her immediate family. The two Infantas (Elena and Cristina) used to be very close to Letizia. I don´t know what happened that nowadays they aren´t so close to Letizia. Once more, Queen Sofia, who is a loving grandmother, shares herself with all grandchildren equally. But it is strange, really that we don´t see Leonor and Irene interrracting, as they probably should, being of the same age, just like Froilán and Juan are best friends as well as cousins.

There is probably a lot of reasons -- Not living close or job commitments or just wanting to be alone after all the social obligations. My siblings and their children drifted apart for many years due to all of the above, but that didn't mean we did not like each other. In the photos I saw, it looked like Elena and Letizia were friendlier than Cristina -- but then Cristina is always with her husband and Elena is now alone -- so maybe the pictures are not giving the exact story -- you know how that can be.

[marmi]

Originally Posted by Winnie

There is probably a lot of reasons -- Not living close or job commitments or just wanting to be alone after all the social obligations. My siblings and their children drifted apart for many years due to all of the above, but that didn't mean we did not like each other. In the photos I saw, it looked like Elena and Letizia were friendlier than Cristina -- but then Cristina is always with her husband and Elena is now alone -- so maybe the pictures are not giving the exact story -- you know how that can be.

I think you may have a point there. Yes E&L seem to get on better than with C, but need to look @ context etc - we dont hear what they're saying or know how they privately think, we just see...

[donnaK]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

My point is that that Queen Sofia or the Kings were not too excited about Felipe's choice in the beginning, which is not only well documented in numerous sources but also makes perfectly sense when looking at the "big picture". No matter what Queen Sofia now dictates into Pilar Urbano's note pad, I am not buying the sugary version "all was well from the very beginning" for the sake of a harmonious legacy.

Pilar Urbano had never said 'all was well from the very beginning' or 'the Kings were extremely excited from the very beginning'. Felipe was supposed to tell his mother that he wanted to marry Letizia, Queen asked him 'Marriage is for life ?', after Felipe acknowledged that Letizia was the woman he wanted to spent his life with, Queen told him to 'think about it' again. Anyway, Letizia was probably not Sofia's ideal wife candindate for Felipe, but she was also quite different from Felipe's famous exes. Other than her middle-class background or divorced (without a child), she has the qualities more close to the women Queen liked for her son, for example, Queen Beatrice's niece Maria-Carolina or LVMH Delphine Arnault, intelligent, hard-working, with solid academic education and career achievements.
Regarding Felipe's absence at the 2003 National day, at that time I heard there was a plane problem. I don't think Felipe was able to have the official plane staying in New York for an extra day because he had arguements with his parents. Tiempo magazine said that Letizia was not in New York with Felipe, she appeared on the Friday night evening news that week, that was also confirmed by Letizia's former boss in TVE.
When Felipe and Letizia visited Covadonga for his birthday in 2004, a woman brought 'that book' asking for Letizia's signature, Felipe was joking to the woman to bring a better book next time.

[PrincessofEurope]

Getty Images - Spanish Royals Attend Zarzuela Palace Letizia and Sofia 15Jan 09 they appear to have a warm and friendly relationship which is great

[Duke of Marmalade]

Once again King Juan Carlos ignoring his two youngest grandchildren - the pictures from the Easter mass show him standing around like a piece of wood, hands behind his back, not even looking at them. In the past he has proven that he can be a warm and affectionate grandfather towards his other grandchildren (at least Elena's kids and Cristina's boys) and his own children - but with Leonor and Sofia, even when there is the opportunity, he doesn't show the slightest affection.

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/85919895/WireImage
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http://picture.belga.be/belgapicture/picture/13395735.html

In JC's case it's not only about a grandfather ignoring his grandchildren but also about the King ignoring the children of his heir, including the future heiress presumptive. Unlike other monarch parents, who try to promote the heir and even the consort and give public support whenever there is a suitable opportunity, JC keeps quiet, especially when it comes down to Felipe's family, Letizia and the girls, the future SRF. The few family pictures that exist are those he could not avoid to do, like some summer photoshoots (even cancelled in the last 2 years) Leonor's and Sofia's christening or the Xmas card 2006, and his facial expression or body language speak volumes.

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/5659...49E290EC96DE79
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Getty Images - Baptism Of Princess Sofia Of Spain

Certainly JC will have his reasons for doing such meaningful gestures in public again and again, refusing to play happy grandfather, something that is even supposed to come natural. No, he chooses not to pull off an acting performance for the sake of the happy united family image, asking the public to have confidence in Felipe and his family as the future Head of State, because he, JC, does. JC's behaviour is strange and not helpful for everybody involved, not Felipe, not Letizia, not Leonor, not the Spanish monarchy. Looks like JC couldn't care less because if there is one thing for sure, it is that he won't be around to see how his son will be doing as King one day.

[LadyFinn]

King Juan Carlos gave a couple of glances to his granddaughters on Sunday:
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[julia garcia roch]

I think King Juan Carlos was aloof towards his grand daughters. It was a disappointment to see them together. The girls were just adorable and he looked like he did not want to be there with the family.

[Marengo]

I think we are readig too much into these pictures. Just that there are no photos of the king being 'involved' with his two grand daughters during this function, doesn't mean that we know how fond of them he is or is not.

[donnaK]

I think Juan Carlos was just uncomfortable that Letizia and the girls were getting so much media attention. He is very machista and old fashioned. He had the same attitude during the French visit. I don't think JC knew enough Carla to like or dislike her, it's the media circus that annoyed him.