General News, Information and Questions on the Spanish RF

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

The routine of just the king and queen at State Visits has become a tad stale and they should from time to time think outside the box and not always with the same act. Just as Old Juan Carlos should have given both of his sisters a bit of limelight from time to time.

Actrually i think JC gave his sisters a bit more of the limelight that Felipe now does it with Elena. For example they attended sveeral State Banquets wehn for example Queen Elizabveth II. visited. And they also severalt times represnted him at foreign royal Events like the Wedding of GD Henri in 1981 or the Inthronisation of Queen Beatrix.

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Actrually i think JC gave his sisters a bit more of the limelight that Felipe now does it with Elena. For example they attended sveeral State Banquets wehn for example Queen Elizabveth II. visited. And they also severalt times represnted him at foreign royal Events like the Wedding of GD Henri in 1981 or the Inthronisation of Queen Beatrix.

That's very true especially the late Infanta Pilar she did attend the Enthronement of Queen Beatrix, certain State Banquets and the Funeral of Diana ,Princess of Wales along with the Olympics,her own patronages and charities had kept up a presence.

[camelot23ca]

Originally Posted by Marengo

Their brother has sidelined them both completely so I don't see why they should worry about the effects of their behavior on him.

Yes, I would like someone to explain why Elena and Cristina are expected to consider their brother when making personal decisions given that there’s no evidence he’s ever done the same for them.

Can anyone give an example of a time when Felipe factored in what was best for his sisters when making a decision? Any evidence at all that he’s offered any sort of support to them or their children since becoming King, (or even well before that), or has put their interests before his own in even a small way? I realize none of us can know exactly what goes on in private but based on what information we do have Felipe’s not going to win any awards for being a great brother or uncle.

On the other hand, I can think of one big way Elena and Cristina have helped their brother and the Spanish monarchy. They’ve remained silent. They haven’t sat down with a major media personality to “speak their truth.” One quick read through the UK forum should be enough to show that there’s nothing stopping a disgruntled royal from lashing out publicly and causing mayhem; family loyalty isn’t a given. I think the Infantas have built lives for themselves away from the SRF and can’t imagine them “pulling a Harry.” But think of the stories they could tell.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

That's very true especially the late Infanta Pilar she did attend the Enthronement of Queen Beatrix, certain State Banquets and the Funeral of Diana ,Princess of Wales along with the Olympics,her own patronages and charities had kept up a presence.

I would add that the aforementioned "limelight" was given to them even though, unlike Elena and Cristina, neither Infanta Pilar nor Infanta Margarita were ever official members of the Royal Family (Familia Real) under the Royal Decree of 1981.


They had, however, the title of Infantas and the style of Royal Highness confirmed by the RD 1368/1987, which in turn also accorded them official precedence under the RD 2099/1983.

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

I would add that the aforementioned "limelight" was given to them even though, unlike Elena and Cristina, neither Infanta Pilar nor Infanta Margarita were ever official members of the Royal Family (Familia Real) under the Royal Decree of 1981.

And also unlike Elena and Cristina neither the late Pilar or her sister were in the line of succession having renounced them upon marriage.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Stefan

I still wonder why they call it Family. They are clearly still members of the Family. They should say they are not members of the Toyal House like the Netherlands and Norway.

Otherwisei agreewith waht mbruno said that it is not really fair to drow them out in the middle of their life.

In Spanish they mostly use 'Casa Real' and 'Familia del Rey'. So, they are indeed no longer part of the 'Royal House' but still 'Family of the king'.

I agree with others that this expectation of the siblings is very unfair; either you release them from building a life as a full-time royal; or you keep them on as royals for life (if they so wish) - instead of kicking them out once their sibling ascends the throne. Hopefully Sofía will be given the freedom to find a fulfilling way of life (which might include some part-time royal duties).

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by AnaC

Felipe didn't sideline his sister. He only applied the law that his father established (and signed) that the siblings of the Monarch are not members of the Royal Family.

Something that hardly came as a surprise to anyone, including Elena.

The decree itself does not however regulate which family members are to have an official role, and so I'm uncertain when the rule that only members of the Royal Family are eligible to be working royals was created.

https://www.boe.es/buscar/doc.php?id=BOE-A-1981-28756

Originally Posted by AnaC

Honestly, nothing has ever been said officially (she's still too young). But when Felipe became King he issued a series of regulations and directives, ranging from Royal Family gifts regulation to Casa Real employees code of conduct to hiring practices etc.. and included some rules on the Royal Family and their activities (also on the possible events undertaken by the King's Family at the King's or the government's request). Those rules state that members of the RF may only take part in institutional activities, so at the time the press, royal watchers and experts all spoke of the future choices of Infanta Sofía, royal working life or private career as a member of the King's Family who could undertake puntual royal and state events without public funding.

I'm not clear on in what way she will be given a choice: She is a member of the Royal Family during the reign of her father and members of the Royal Family, if I understand correctly, are not permitted to have private careers under Felipe VI's new regulations.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

The decree itself does not however regulate which family members are to have an official role, and so I'm uncertain when the rule that only members of the Royal Family are eligible to be working royals was created.

https://www.boe.es/buscar/doc.php?id=BOE-A-1981-28756




I'm not clear on in what way she will be given a choice: She is a member of the Royal Family during the reign of her father and members of the Royal Family, if I understand correctly, are not permitted to have private careers under Felipe VI's new regulations.

Cant she choose to walk out of it? If she gives up being a member of the RF, and says she wants a career of her own? The Spanish RF seem to manage OK doing thier duties with a small number of people.. so if Sofia does not want to be a working princess it seems unfair to force her.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by Denville

Cant she choose to walk out of it? If she gives up being a member of the RF, and says she wants a career of her own? The Spanish RF seem to manage OK doing thier duties with a small number of people.. so if Sofia does not want to be a working princess it seems unfair to force her.

Until Leonor is married and has children of her own Sofia will be needed as spare, therefore she can't just walk out. When Leonor becomes Queen, Sofia, like Infantas Elena and Cristina, can do as she pleases. It will be possibly a difficult life for her - difficult in a different way than her sisters life - because nobody knows at what stage of her life Sofia will leave the RF. She is restricted in building a life for herself and then all of a sudden she has to have one that pays the bills and is beyond critizism.

[Prinsara]

If I recall correctly, Felipe has said more than once that Sofia's job will be "to help her sister". Either officially and as a permanent role, or not, but they're not just going to kick her out the day she gets displaced as heir. If Sofia herself doesn't want to do it for the rest of her life, that's another story, but she seems to have a part to play if she does.

I would imagine they'd let her get as much education as possible, so she can either use it for Leonor's benefit or for her own, privately.

[janelarn]

Anyone, princess or not, has their own destiny in their hands.
Perhaps Leonor will discover one day that she does not want to be queen, and she is her choice. No one will force her to do anything.
If Sofía wants to continue working for Casa Real, she has an exemplary behavior as "infanta", she will continue even when she is older and no one is going to expel her if she decides that she wants to continue contributing her work alongside her sister .
If she does not want to continue, she will have a job in a private company as Elena and Cristina have done.
Being two sisters, I think Sofía will stay by her sister's side to help her, but time will tell.
As for Felipe being a good or bad brother, there would be much to say because neither Elena nor Cristina have been a support for Felipe. Felipe defends the CROWN, they his own interests.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Prinsara

If I recall correctly, Felipe has said more than once that Sofia's job will be "to help her sister". Either officially and as a permanent role, or not, but they're not just going to kick her out the day she gets displaced as heir. If Sofia herself doesn't want to do it for the rest of her life, that's another story, but she seems to have a part to play if she does.

I would imagine they'd let her get as much education as possible, so she can either use it for Leonor's benefit or for her own, privately.

Sofía will be kicked out of the Casa Real the moment Leonor ascends the throne, just like her aunts were reduced from being members of the Casa Real to being members of the Familia del Rey. While Leonor might handle differently than her father in asking her sister to continue taking up a high number of events, it is a little weird to kick her out of the 'core family' but still expect her to behave as if she is still part of it (but it is equally weird to dispose of her as they did with Elena (and Cristina - although that process had already started earlier due to other reasons)).

[janelarn]

Cristina became a problem because she was convicted, as was her husband (although the infanta was only sentenced to a fine and her husband to jail) and Elena has always been closer to Felipe, but she has also brought many problems to the royal house .
Just look up: Carlos García-Revenga and you can understand better.
Felipe has always been a good son, husband, father and brother.
And he is a wonderful king.
His sisters wanted to have a life of luxury that they could not achieve and that is why Felipe has had to make the rule in which the person of the royal family does not work for the Crown, he must have a job in a private company, so that there is no possibility of influence peddling and that with that, crimes can be committed. It is very logical.
All royal families are doomed to dispense with the "second" or "third", and that there is only one leading royal family. This is the monarchy. It is not a Spanish invention.
The second children, go to the background, because it is their destiny, as the first child has his destiny marked to be king or queen.

[Blog Real]

I always thought Elena and Cristina liked working for Royal House. I remember that there was a time between 2012 and 2014, even before Juan Carlos abdicated, when Elena had a very busy schedule and participated in many events representing Royal House.
I think Elena could still be a good asset for the Royal House, which currently only has five elements to work (King Felipe VI, Queen Letizia, Princess Leonor, Infanta Sofia and Reina Sofia), and Leonor and Sofia are still very young and they only participate in a few events, although they are already very prominent.

I think that Infanta Sofia will always be a support for Leonor, and will not be expelled from the Royal House when Leonor inherits the throne.

[An Ard Ri]

They could have kept the Infanta Elena on until at least the kings daughters were old to assume public duties on a semi official basis.Of the kings 2 sisters Elena is in a different league to Cristina who with Inaki did serious damage to the Crown.

They all come with baggage look at Letizia's loudmouth attention seeking aunt.

For the next 5+ years it will be God willing just the King,Queen and Queen Sofia.

[janelarn]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

They could have kept the Infanta Elena on until at least the kings daughters were old to assume public duties on a semi official basis.Of the kings 2 sisters Elena is in a different league to Cristina who with Inaki did serious damage to the Crown.

They all come with baggage look at Letizia's loudmouth attention seeking aunt.

For the next 5+ years it will be God willing just the King,Queen and Queen Sofia.

Carlos García Revenga (1955) was personal secretary to the infantas Elena and Cristina. He worked in La Zarzuela since 1993, in the time of Fernando Almansa, although his relationship with the infantas began years before at the Santa María del Camino school, where they both studied and he was a teacher.
Elena took him to Zarzuela and has had a rather negative influence on the "House" and on the infantas, especially Elena, of whom he is a personal friend.
Carlos García-Revega was treasurer in Noos, and attended the trial against Iñaki as a witness. I will never understand why this man was not implicated.
I don't remember exactly the year, because I wasn't following my royal family so much at that time, Carlos García-Revenga tried to make a profit-making economic partnership with Elena, but Casa Real, after Noos, cut it off in the bud. This man was a simple teacher who, thanks to the infantas, entered a world unthinkable for him. He rubbed shoulders with the highest society. He lived beyond his means. He has joined his name to many "gossip" and news that came out of the environment of Zarzuela always harming the then Princes of Asturias.
Iñaki and he, along with Cristina, sent many offensive messages that were about the princess, Jaime de Marichalar or even Queen Sofía herself.
When Felipe was proclaimed king, the secretariat of the infantas was disbanded, and García-Revenga was fired. This man sued Casa Real for unfair dismissal and threatened in many media about "talking about the royal family" ... and despite everything, Elena has been photographed with him on lunch outings or with friends.
Who thinks that Felipe VI can trust these two sisters? No one in their right mind.
García Revenga, it is said, has a strange influence on the Infanta Elena, which has made her side with this man and not with his brother and his king. It was Elena who took this man to the Secretariat of the Infantas.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by janelarn

Cristina became a problem because she was convicted, as was her husband (although the infanta was only sentenced to a fine and her husband to jail) and Elena has always been closer to Felipe, but she has also brought many problems to the royal house .
Just look up: Carlos García-Revenga and you can understand better.
Felipe has always been a good son, husband, father and brother.
And he is a wonderful king.
His sisters wanted to have a life of luxury that they could not achieve and that is why Felipe has had to make the rule in which the person of the royal family does not work for the Crown, he must have a job in a private company, so that there is no possibility of influence peddling and that with that, crimes can be committed. It is very logical.
All royal families are doomed to dispense with the "second" or "third", and that there is only one leading royal family. This is the monarchy. It is not a Spanish invention.
The second children, go to the background, because it is their destiny, as the first child has his destiny marked to be king or queen.

Of course the king cannot make a rule that his sibling need to have a job in a private company. Is he going to force someone to accept his siblings as employee?

The rule that was instituted (wasn't it done by Juan Carlos instead of Felipe) was that they are no longer official members of the royal house and therefore don't do (regular) royal engagements. So yes, they are LEFT to fend for themselves but not ORDERED to take a job. What is he going to do if they decide they have enough money to live on? Or if they have a spouse who earns sufficient money, so they prefer to take up charity work? He cannot put them in jail for disobeying their brother...

Many people here have argued that if a royal family wants to dispense (as you put it) of the future monarch's siblings, they should do it straight away and NOT require that sibling to first take up royal duties until they are middle-aged and then suddenly kick them out. Unfortunately, that is what the Spanish royal house seems to be doing: the message to Sofía is 'you have to support your sister' but that is only valid until they no longer need her. That is problematic - as we can for example currently see with Joachim of Denmark who has a really hard time adjusting to a different life as this is slowly happening to him (at least not as drastic as in the case of the Spanish royals but it is clear as day that he is unhappy about it).

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by janelarn

García Revenga, it is said, has a strange influence on the Infanta Elena, which has made her side with this man and not with his brother and his king. It was Elena who took this man to the Secretariat of the Infantas.

I always thought it was king Juan Carlos who introduced Carlos García Revenga to the Royal House in the 1990's and the King appointed him Secretary to the Infantas?

He was a very shady individual and the king did his older sister a huge favour and besides they no longer needed a secretary post JC.
I read awhile ago he was dating a cousin of the kings, though not sure how credible that was.

[janelarn]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

I always thought it was king Juan Carlos who introduced Carlos García Revenga to the Royal House in the 1990's and the King appointed him Secretary to the Infantas?

He was a very shady individual and the king did his older sister a huge favour and besides they no longer needed a secretary post JC.
I read awhile ago he was dating a cousin of the kings, though not sure how credible that was.

It was the Infanta Elena who brought that man to the Secretary, and therefore to Zarzuela.
And I know that he was dating an aristocrat, Mencía Morales and Borbón Dos Sicilias (daughter of Inés de Borbón-Dos Sicilias, Duchess of Siracusa and first cousin of King Juan Carlos).
It is said that García Revenga was choosing Elena's friends, even excluding childhood friends and accepting her most flattering friends into the circle. Quite a dismal character

PD: I have found something for you:

"Carlos García Revenga became part of the Royal Household service in 1993, the very King Juan Carlos I asked him to do so twice. Until then, his professional career had been in teaching, specifically at the Santa María del Camino school. , but at the request of the king in 1993 he became personal secretary to his daughters, Infanta Elena and Infanta Cristina. "

Of course it is the king who asks him, but he was already the guardian(Tutor) of the Infanta Elena, and she is the one who asks her father to hire him.

[janelarn]

Originally Posted by Somebody

Of course the king cannot make a rule that his sibling need to have a job in a private company. Is he going to force someone to accept his siblings as employee?
Many people here have argued that if a royal family wants to dispense (as you put it) of the future monarch's siblings, they should do it straight away and NOT require that sibling to first take up royal duties until they are middle-aged and then suddenly kick them out. Unfortunately, that is what the Spanish royal house seems to be doing: the message to Sofía is 'you have to support your sister' but that is only valid until they no longer need her. That is problematic - as we can for example currently see with Joachim of Denmark who has a really hard time adjusting to a different life as this is slowly happening to him (at least not as drastic as in the case of the Spanish royals but it is clear as day that he is unhappy about it).

Like I said, everyone is free to choose their path as Harry has.
Infantas, Spanish infants, are educated so that the Crown is the first thing in their life and their loyalty to the king, until the end of her life.
If you knew the story of many Spanish infantas and infantes, so exciting and loyal to their king-queen, it would be wonderful because you would better understand what the Spanish royal house asks of its sons-daughters.
No one can force anyone to do something they don't want to, don't twist my words, because what I'm telling you is that everyone has the freedom to choose.
Simply, a person, man or woman, is supposed to WANT to work, right? We are in the 21st century and work honors.
You are simply given the ability to work either indoors or out, but not in both places at the same time. It is very logical and understandable.
If Sofia does not want to work and marries a billionaire, it will be her decision.
If Sofia does not want to help her sister, no one will be able to force her.
But ALL second or third siblings of royal families work for the crown as long as they are active members and their parents live or reign. Then they go into the background, but it's in ALL royal families.
It's very difficult to understand? I do not think so. Simply Felipe VI, gives the option: you work within the royal family or you work outside, but not both at the same time.