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  #121  
Old 03-04-2021, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Since only about 25% population of UAE have been immunized, no. Though they are one of the leading countries in numbers vaccinated.

There have been many suggestions UAE has been offering 'vaccine tourism' especially Dubai. That people with enough money could pay to go there and get their vaccine ahead of others.

It definitely isn't a good image for the infantas to get a vaccine there.


They may not be working royals, but they are royals. And they know full well what kind of image this would give to the media. And shadow on their brother.
Their brother has sidelined them both completely so I don't see why they should worry about the effects of their behavior on him.

I wouldn't call a visit to a sick and aging father a 'vacation'. If they had allowed Juan Carlos to return this would never have happened in the first place. Instead they have forced an old man who saved his country from a military dictatorship to live in semi-exile without any of his family around.
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  #122  
Old 03-04-2021, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Since only about 25% population of UAE have been immunized, no. Though they are one of the leading countries in numbers vaccinated.

There have been many suggestions UAE has been offering 'vaccine tourism' especially Dubai. That people with enough money could pay to go there and get their vaccine ahead of others.

It definitely isn't a good image for the infantas to get a vaccine there.


They may not be working royals, but they are royals. And they know full well what kind of image this would give to the media. And shadow on their brother.
OT, but I wonder if that 25% is calculated considering only Emiratis or it also includes the millions of Asian immigrants.

Anyway it doesn't look good at all. It provides a prime example of privilege and, among other things, that's what Spanish republicans need to enhance their attacks. Now, considering Spain's political situation the monarchy is safe, but still.
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  #123  
Old 03-04-2021, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
Their brother has sidelined them both completely so I don't see why they should worry about the effects of their behavior on him.
Just as Juan Carlos did with both of sisters ,though neither of them were involved in a Corruption scandal to the best of my knowledge.

Cristina I have no sympathy towards but Elena yes she didn't deserve such treatment.
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  #124  
Old 03-04-2021, 07:04 AM
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Felipe didn't sideline his sister. He only applied the law that his father established (and signed) that the siblings of the Monarch are not members of the Royal Family.

Something that hardly came as a surprise to anyone, including Elena.
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  #125  
Old 03-04-2021, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
Their brother has sidelined them both completely so I don't see why they should worry about the effects of their behavior on him.

I wouldn't call a visit to a sick and aging father a 'vacation'. If they had allowed Juan Carlos to return this would never have happened in the first place. Instead they have forced an old man who saved his country from a military dictatorship to live in semi-exile without any of his family around.
he's the one who chose to get involved in dubious financial dealings, which forced him to abdicate... and He was the one who left Spain...
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  #126  
Old 03-04-2021, 09:04 AM
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I think the turning point in respect for king Juan Carlos was the disgusting elephant-hunting trip in Botswana at Easter 2012 and then the entire alleged antics with shameless Corinna and financial and corruption scandal.

If anyone has badly damaged his legacy its the old king himself.
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  #127  
Old 03-04-2021, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by AnaC View Post
Felipe didn't sideline his sister. He only applied the law that his father established (and signed) that the siblings of the Monarch are not members of the Royal Family.

Something that hardly came as a surprise to anyone, including Elena.

If you think about it, that Royal Decree you mention is quite unfair on the siblings though.

Infanta Cristina was already sidelined anyway because of Iñaki's scandal, but, if King Juan Carlos for some reason had not abdicated, Infanta Elena would still be a member of the Royal Family to this day and, presumably, still a working royal as she was before 2014.

As working royals, I assume the Infantas had fewer opportunities than ordinary citizens to pursue private careers (due to conflicts of interest). Yet, under the current rules, they could be in a position where, after having worked most of their adult lives for the RF, they would be suddenly out and having to build new careers in the private sector in their 50s or even older if Felipe for example had only become king after his father's demise.


Is it really reasonable to ask that from them or shouldn't they have been compensated for the opportunities they missed in life for having been in the Royal Family for such a long time?


BTW, leaving aside Elena and Cristina, a similar problem applies to Infanta Sofía. She is expected to be a full-time working royal for quite some time while D. Felipe is king and, yet, she also has to consider her future when her sister becomes queen and she is no longer a member of the RF.
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  #128  
Old 03-04-2021, 09:22 AM
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The Infanta Elena has performed several official duties since the her fathers abdication but they're limited to 2 or 3 per year ,very silly of casareal just have 3 working members for such a vast country like Spain. It will be years before either of the king's daughter performs any official solo duties and the kings mother will be in her late 80's /early 90's.
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  #129  
Old 03-04-2021, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by AnaC View Post
Felipe didn't sideline his sister. He only applied the law that his father established (and signed) that the siblings of the Monarch are not members of the Royal Family.

Something that hardly came as a surprise to anyone, including Elena.

I still wonder why they call it Family. They are clearly still members of the Family. They should say they are not members of the Toyal House like the Netherlands and Norway.

Otherwisei agreewith waht mbruno said that it is not really fair to drow them out in the middle of their life.
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  #130  
Old 03-04-2021, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
If you think about it, that Royal Decree you mention is quite unfair on the siblings though.

Infanta Cristina was already sidelined anyway because of Iñaki's scandal, but, if King Juan Carlos for some reason had not abdicated, Infanta Elena would still be a member of the Royal Family to this day and, presumably, still a working royal as she was before 2014.

As working royals, I assume the Infantas had fewer opportunities than ordinary citizens to pursue private careers (due to conflicts of interest). Yet, under the current rules, they could be in a position where, after having worked most of their adult lives for the RF, they would be suddenly out and having to build new careers in the private sector in their 50s or even older if Felipe for example had only become king after his father's demise.


Is it really reasonable to ask that from them or shouldn't they have been compensated for the opportunities they missed in life for having been in the Royal Family for such a long time?


BTW, leaving aside Elena and Cristina, a similar problem applies to Infanta Sofía. She is expected to be a full-time working royal for quite some time while D. Felipe is king and, yet, she also has to consider her future when her sister becomes queen and she is no longer a member of the RF.

When JC was King both Elena and Cristina held lucrative jobs. When Elena and Jaime split and she lost the income that he brought she started working as a director in the foundation of a insurance company. She's had that job since 2008.

Elena wasn't a full time working royal many, many years before the abdication. She didn't have many engagements or attend important Royal events like Pascua Militar, the Diplomatic Reception or State Visits.

Sofía is not expected to be a full time Royal during her father's reign, she's expected to choose between being a working royal or pursuing a private career. If she chooses the Royal path she won't have any trouble finding a job in the private sector when the time comes (like any senior Royal can in any country) or depending on the circunstances her sister and the government at the time may choose to change the rule and let her maintain her working royal status.(of course this last scenario is nothing more than speculation on my part)
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  #131  
Old 03-04-2021, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
I still wonder why they call it Family. They are clearly still members of the Family. They should say they are not members of the Toyal House like the Netherlands and Norway.

Otherwisei agreewith waht mbruno said that it is not really fair to drow them out in the middle of their life.
In Spain there's the Royal Family and the Family of the King.
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  #132  
Old 03-04-2021, 10:06 AM
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Elena wasn't a full time working royal many, many years before the abdication. She didn't have many engagements or attend important Royal events like Pascua Militar, the Diplomatic Reception or State Visits.

For quiet some times after their marriages both Elena and Cristina still attended State Banquets. I think Elena even more probablyshe lived in Madrid. and the same for the diplomatic reception.

And i think even if she is no member of the official Royal Family they could still invite her for State Banquets etc like it is done inm Norway where Princess Astrid is present for most State Banquets even if she is no member of the Royal House. Wouldn't i be a help for the King and Queen when there are so many guests present?
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  #133  
Old 03-04-2021, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
For quiet some times after their marriages both Elena and Cristina still attended State Banquets. I think Elena even more probablyshe lived in Madrid. and the same for the diplomatic reception.

And i think even if she is no member of the official Royal Family they could still invite her for State Banquets etc like it is done inm Norway where Princess Astrid is present for most State Banquets even if she is no member of the Royal House. Wouldn't i be a help for the King and Queen when there are so many guests present?
By the time JC abdicated in 2014, Elena hadn't attended a State Visit since at least 2007, that's at least 7 years, it was obviously her choice. We don't know if she's still invited to State dinners (and why not, she's been invited to other state and royal events since 2014) but it seems very unlikely she would attend if she didn't when she was a member of the Royal Family.
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  #134  
Old 03-04-2021, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by AnaC View Post
When JC was King both Elena and Cristina held lucrative jobs. When Elena and Jaime split and she lost the income that he brought she started working as a director in the foundation of a insurance company. She's had that job since 2008.

Elena wasn't a full time working royal many, many years before the abdication. She didn't have many engagements or attend important Royal events like Pascua Militar, the Diplomatic Reception or State Visits.

Sofía is not expected to be a full time Royal during her father's reign, she's expected to choose between being a working royal or pursuing a private career. If she chooses the Royal path she won't have any trouble finding a job in the private sector when the time comes (like any senior Royal can in any country) or depending on the circunstances her sister and the government at the time may choose to change the rule and let her maintain her working royal status.(of course this last scenario is nothing more than speculation on my part)



Thanks for clarifying that the Spanish Royal House was actually flexible about Elena and Cristina having private jobs even when they were still officially members of the Royal Family who received public funding.

I didn't know either that Infanta Sofía had been given a choice by her parents to be a full-time working royal or to have a private life, but, in that case, I think it won't be too hard on her when she officially leaves the RF.

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I still wonder why they call it Family. They are clearly still members of the Family. They should say they are not members of the Toyal House like the Netherlands and Norway.

As AnaC explained, the Spaniards distinguish the Royal Family (Familia Real) from the King's Family (Familia del Rey). So Infanta Elena is no longer a member of the Royal Family, but she is still a member of the King's Family.

It is a confusing terminology, but, making a rough comparison (as the membership rules are not the same) the Royal Family for them is what would be called e.g. the Royal House in Sweden (Kungahuset), whereas the King's Family is what would be called the Royal Family in Sweden (Kungafamiljen).
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  #135  
Old 03-04-2021, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post




As AnaC explained, the Spaniards distinguish the Royal Family (Familia Real) from the King's Family (Familia del Rey). So Infanta Elena is no longer a member of the Royal Family, but she is still a member of the King's Family.

It is a confusing terminology, but, making a rough comparison (as the membership rules are not the same) the Royal Family for them is what would be called e.g. the Royal House in Sweden (Kungahuset), whereas the King's Family is what would be called the Royal Family in Sweden (Kungafamiljen).

I know that they do that but i find it wrong as first she is as you say still a member of the Familyand she is still a Royal Highness and therefore Royal.

Therefore i don't understand why they don't call it royal House like in other countries. for example in Sweden those who areno members of the Royal House and members of the King's Family are also nor Royal Highnesses.
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  #136  
Old 03-04-2021, 10:52 AM
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I know that they do that but i find it wrong as first she is as you say still a member of the Familyand she is still a Royal Highness and therefore Royal.

Therefore i don't understand why they don't call it royal House like in other countries. for example in Sweden those who areno members of the Royal House and members of the King's Family are also nor Royal Highnesses.



I agree with you that the terminology is not adequate as Elena and Cristina are still HRHs, but each country has its own way of naming things and we have to respect that.

Another interesting point BTW is that Felipe's sisters are still in the official order of precedence as is JC's surving sister. They are immediately below King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofía, but both Juan Carlos and Sofía are below Princess Leonor and Infanta Sofía. The Infantas' children have no official precedence though.
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  #137  
Old 03-04-2021, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post

I didn't know either that Infanta Sofía had been given a choice by her parents to be a full-time working royal or to have a private life, but, in that case, I think it won't be too hard on her when she officially leaves the RF.



Honestly, nothing has ever been said officially (she's still too young). But when Felipe became King he issued a series of regulations and directives, ranging from Royal Family gifts regulation to Casa Real employees code of conduct to hiring practices etc.. and included some rules on the Royal Family and their activities (also on the possible events undertaken by the King's Family at the King's or the government's request). Those rules state that members of the RF may only take part in institutional activities, so at the time the press, royal watchers and experts all spoke of the future choices of Infanta Sofía, royal working life or private career as a member of the King's Family who could undertake puntual royal and state events without public funding.
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  #138  
Old 03-04-2021, 12:00 PM
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I know that they do that but i find it wrong as first she is as you say still a member of the Familyand she is still a Royal Highness and therefore Royal.

Therefore i don't understand why they don't call it royal House like in other countries. for example in Sweden those who areno members of the Royal House and members of the King's Family are also nor Royal Highnesses.
The direct translation of Royal House is Casa Real, the workinh Monarchy institution, including staff etc...
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  #139  
Old 03-04-2021, 12:24 PM
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There is no way Infanta Sofia will leave public life before Leonor is settled with a family. Imagine after her studies she says it's not for me, with a lot of bad luck she could be the heiress if something happens to her sister. And who should do all the work? By then Queen Sofia will have passed or is at least incapable of working, with Sofia leaving it will be Felipe, Letizia, Leonor, who will be studying/training for the next 10 years anyway?
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  #140  
Old 03-04-2021, 12:41 PM
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By the time JC abdicated in 2014, Elena hadn't attended a State Visit since at least 2007, that's at least 7 years, it was obviously her choice. We don't know if she's still invited to State dinners (and why not, she's been invited to other state and royal events since 2014) but it seems very unlikely she would attend if she didn't when she was a member of the Royal Family.
A lot of her absences possibly had a lot to do with the break up of her marriage and subsequent divorce ,the years 2007 -2010 were tough years for the Infanta.

The routine of just the king and queen at State Visits has become a tad stale and they should from time to time think outside the box and not always with the same act. Just as Old Juan Carlos should have given both of his sisters a bit of limelight from time to time.
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