Future and Popularity of the Spanish Monarchy


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
But Letizia is the weakest link, and because of it easier open to criticism. The perfect family and the imperfect Letizia ... it is not credible:rolleyes:. They all have their negative things and commit their mistakes.

This week, a journalist was commenting that if she should to support what the Princess has supported, she should become mad. The change of life, the pressure and the critique for the critique up to reaching the most absolute of the absurdities. And nevertheless, she has taken it with enough strength, up to in the worst moments. It is the whole mental process, to manage to separate what indeed matters, of what it is a demagoguery to do business. For a person who is developing well her role, which criticizes her for stupidities or invented rumors, it must be frustrating, more when it spreads to the persons that you love.

Often I doubt that other members of the Royal Family could bear this pressure without losing the nerves.

Last week I read several commentaries in press, of persons who had had the opportunity to speak with the Princess (several in the act of the Community of Madrid), and from these commentaries, one was coming to the conclusion from that though they were speaking to her about inconvinient or troublesome topics, she was capable of measuring up to talk of topics serious and from the absurd polemics taking with humor or irony. To come to this point is something marvellous for she.
 
This week, a journalist was commenting that if she should to support what the Princess has supported, she should become mad. The change of life, the pressure and the critique for the critique up to reaching the most absolute of the absurdities. And nevertheless, she has taken it with enough strength, up to in the worst moments. It is the whole mental process, to manage to separate what indeed matters, of what it is a demagoguery to do business. For a person who is developing well her role, which criticizes her for stupidities or invented rumors, it must be frustrating, more when it spreads to the persons that you love.

I agree with you, Lula. I have always thought that she is and has been extremely strong to withstand all the stuff that she has had to withstand due to a confluence of factors in Spain that are really beyond her control. And I have always admired her for this as well as all her other positive qualities.
 
But Letizia is the weakest link, and because of it easier open to criticism. The perfect family and the imperfect Letizia ... it is not credible:rolleyes:. They all have their negative things and commit their mistakes.

This week, a journalist was commenting that if she should to support what the Princess has supported, she should become mad. The change of life, the pressure and the critique for the critique up to reaching the most absolute of the absurdities. And nevertheless, she has taken it with enough strength, up to in the worst moments. It is the whole mental process, to manage to separate what indeed matters, of what it is a demagoguery to do business. For a person who is developing well her role, which criticizes her for stupidities or invented rumors, it must be frustrating, more when it spreads to the persons that you love.

Often I doubt that other members of the Royal Family could bear this pressure without losing the nerves.

Last week I read several commentaries in press, of persons who had had the opportunity to speak with the Princess (several in the act of the Community of Madrid), and from these commentaries, one was coming to the conclusion from that though they were speaking to her about inconvinient or troublesome topics, she was capable of measuring up to talk of topics serious and from the absurd polemics taking with humor or irony. To come to this point is something marvellous for she.

I am not spanish so this is just an outside opinion. As far as Letizia is concerned, I don't believe she is a decisive factor for survival or downfall of the monarchy. It's a much bigger picture, something like JC guided the country into democracy and now the monarchy has fulfilled its mission and outlived its purpose.

Back to Letizia, the problem for me is that she was - much much stronger than in any other monarchy - forced into a certain role and personality, defined by Zarzuela, and miles apart from who she obviously was, a self determined career woman. As a consequence, at least for me, she is lacking her own personality as her role is now reduced to being Felipe's accessoire and giving birth to children, denying her assets and own responsibilities and this definition of her role makes her an easy target for critizsm of all kinds.

People can hardly see what she is capable of and why she would be a good Queen, because until this day she hardly does any visible work. We can assume that she is involved in Felipe's work but do we know? I wonder how she feels about being treated like a child and her every move being controlled by Zarzuela as if they had not the slightest confidence in her abilities when she's on her own. For me, Letizia simply is the wrong person in the wrong place at the wrong time - something that's beyond her control and that went all the right way for Maxima, who - with a similar background (hard working career woman) became the strongest asset of the Dutch monarchy, simply because she was allowed to stay herself.
 
Duke and Philippe: thanks a lot, you expressed things much better than I ever did :flowers:
 
ABC.es: opinion - la-tercera - Con el Rey, con la Constitución
IN ORDER to know the nature the attack against the King and Corona it is enough with identifying to those who head it: fanatical and separatist extremists. Of which it is deduced that the attacks to the King and the Institution that incarnates are it, in fact, to the own Constitution and the State and, really, Spain, whose unit and permanence represent and symbolize Don Juan Carlos and, in the future, Prince de AsturiasTaking advantage of the antimonarchical offensive untied these days, the speaker has gotten to say that "the best thing is than the King abdicated in the Prince". In his persistence to disqualify to Don Juan Carlos he has gotten to accuse to him of not being with the victims of the terrorism. Immediately, very significant voices of this group have answered to him reaffirming the inexhaustible support that Don Juan Carlos has contributed to them in all these years of sufferings. As referential testimonies as


ABC.es: nacional - nacional - Pinza radical contra el Rey

Even, foreign historians as the North American Spanish scholar Stanley Paine has detected the campaign beginning in our country. The own Payne warned a year ago from the University of Georgetown on the risks of the "new Spanish republican movement", headed in its opinion by the extreme left and some sector of the PSOE. However, the republican right has wanted to take advantage of this antimonarchical offensive to obtain its objectives, because it does not pardon to Corona the dismantling of the Francoism with which that right maintained a situation privileged.
The foreign press, in general, has followed until now expectant the Spanish reality, to the margin of any campaign, with the exception of the British newspaper "The Times", property of Rupert Murdoch (of whom is advisor the ex- president of the Government, Jose Maria Aznar), that the past August published an article with attacks to the King. The same journalist who seven months before had interviewed to the bloodthirsty ETA member Of Juana Chaos during his hunger strike, a journalistic practice very questioned, published a information under the title "the popular King who squashed a coup d'etat loses the support of his subjects". Without endorsing this affirmation in no sounding, the newspaper was limited to gather the declarations of the senator of the PNV Iñaki Anasagasti and the Secretary General of ERC, Joan Tardá, two known republican
 
Back to Letizia, the problem for me is that she was - much much stronger than in any other monarchy - forced into a certain role and personality, defined by Zarzuela, and miles apart from who she obviously was, a self determined career woman. As a consequence, at least for me, she is lacking her own personality as her role is now reduced to being Felipe's accessoire and giving birth to children, denying her assets and own responsibilities and this definition of her role makes her an easy target for critizsm of all kinds.
If Letizia's role is the problem, then that is something that Zarzuela is to be blamed for, not the lady herself.

Just out of curiousity, when other Royal ladies attend functions with their husbands, are they merely "accessories" as well? Or is that a "privilege" for Letizia only?

Duke of Marmalade said:
People can hardly see what she is capable of and why she would be a good Queen, because until this day she hardly does any visible work.
If people want to see what she is capable of they need only look at her extensive and impressive CV. Letizia has proved, more so than some of the other CP's, that she is more than capable of achieving.

As for "visible work", she attends the most events of all the CP's, as her schedule is one of the busiest. She does exactly what Felipe does, except he sometimes makes a speech. She meets the same people, participates in the same conferences and shows the same amount of dedication. More importantly though, she has often done so under much more difficult circumstances.

Duke of Marmalade said:
We can assume that she is involved in Felipe's work but do we know?
Well Felipe has himself confirmed she is heavily involved with his work and often helps with his speeches.

How much more confirmation in needed?

Duke of Marmalade said:
I wonder how she feels about being treated like a child and her every move being controlled by Zarzuela as if they had not the slightest confidence in her abilities when she's on her own.
Judging from the numerous photos, both at work and in private, provided on this forum she seems to have no problem with her role.

It never ceases to amaze me how easily people are willing to dismiss the work Letizia does, purely because she often does it with her husband at her side.

None of the CP's work "alone" in the truest sense, all have advisers, assistants, some have Ladies -in-waiting etc. Ultimately they have masses of help and preparation before each event and often are noly required to show up, smile, wave and perhaps mingle with the public.

How is that any different to Letizia?
 
Probably the problem, it is that Duke does not read the suitable information, there is numerous news of press, of newspapers, which refer to the attitude of the Princess in the acts to that she comes with the Prince. Commentaries on how she takes part in the acts, her nearness, her conversations, the informed well that is of the topics that treat, what she asks, her worry for attending to the whole peolpe, or the good memory that has to remember information and persons.

Often in the articles of press, these things are commented. It is true that the majority they are in Spanish, and in this forum already can´t be write the complete translations.
 
If Letizia's role is the problem, then that is something that Zarzuela is to be blamed for, not the lady herself.
Exactly, I have never blamed her.
Just out of curiousity, when other Royal ladies attend functions with their husbands, are they merely "accessories" as well? Or is that a "privilege" for Letizia only?
No, you are right. All of them are accessoires when being with their husbands = heirs. They are the ones who are important. The difference with Letizia is that she's the only CP who is reduced to this accessoire role as all others have more or less their own fields of activity and their own profile, just to name Maxima, Mathilde, Mette Marit etc.

If people want to see what she is capable of they need only look at her extensive and impressive CV. Letizia has proved, more so than some of the other CP's, that she is more than capable of achieving.

I totally agree - and what has become of it after marriage? It's such a waste not to make use of her assets.

As for "visible work", she attends the most events of all the CP's, as her schedule is one of the busiest.
You are right no question about her schedule being one of the busiest but assisting Felipe is not the kind of work I referred to earlier.

She does exactly what Felipe does, except he sometimes makes a speech. She meets the same people, participates in the same conferences and shows the same amount of dedication.

I don't agree here. No way she does exactly what Felipe does. He's the heir, must be in the drivers' seat, does the speeches, the important talking, prize presentation etc. Letizia is there to assist and do small talk, that's her role and all other female CPs do the same, but not ALL THE TIME. This is what I critizise. There are fields of interest that she could occupy such as journalism and media, very suitable and different from the usual children's issues, mostly occupied by Queen Sofia and the Infantas.

More importantly though, she has often done so under much more difficult circumstances.
It's true but life is life, other royals suffer blows as well and they have to deal with it too. She dealt with it gracefully but that must be it.

Well Felipe has himself confirmed she is heavily involved with his work and often helps with his speeches.
How much more confirmation in needed?

Oh, well, Felipe confirmed then it must be true :rolleyes: not so sure as royals work as much on their image as celebrities do. Regarding Felipe's speeches, I doubt he does any of them himself, as most other royals. People from Zarzuela's staff will do it for him while he can give input or do some editing. Keeping that in mind, I wouldn't overestimate Letizia's influence on Felipe's speeches. I said earlier that I assume that Letizia is involved in Felipe's work but if it's "heavily" or not I still don't know. Besides, if a certain press writes things in favour it might as well be exaggerated as if a certain press writes things in disfavour. Don't know how people feel in Spain but I don't believe too much of what the papers write, no matter what source, at least here in the UK.

Judging from the numerous photos, both at work and in private, provided on this forum she seems to have no problem with her role. It never ceases to amaze me how easily people are willing to dismiss the work Letizia does, purely because she often does it with her husband at her side.

I don't know if she has a problem with her role or not although I don't believe that Letizia knew from the beginning how much restriction it would include. She's probably fine with her role but only because she knows there is nothing she can do about it. Please remind me of an event where Letizia did the work / was in charge with her husband by her side. Whenever I see them it's the other way around and this is how it should be at the vast majority of the events. All I am wondering about is why Letizia is not allowed to have her own field of interest where she can be in charge. It's just natural as she has the appropriate knowlegde and assets.

None of the CP's work "alone" in the truest sense, all have advisers, assistants, some have Ladies -in-waiting etc. Ultimately they have masses of help and preparation before each event and often are noly required to show up, smile, wave and perhaps mingle with the public.

How is that any different to Letizia?

Totally agree. The difference is an own profile. All other ladies are able to represent their royal houses on their own, in an own field of interest. Of course they have all the help as you stated above - Letizia would have the same assistance - but I find it important for a CP who will be Queen to have her own respected personality and stand for a field of interest that represents her personality and background.
 
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I think Zarzuela wants to enhance the importance of Filipe (future King) and the submission of Letizia.
Of course Zarzuela has all the blame, they want things like that!
She doesn't seam involved in Filipe's work, if she is involved she should show that to the public, but again IMO Zarzuela doesn't let her speak to mucht in order not to superimpose Filipe's work!
 
Yes, I blame Zarzuela for not allow her to be part of the official activities, and I think it is beacause they don't want Princess Letizia overshadow her husband, an it is so stupid, in that way People never gonna have a idea of the princess work, nethier Respect her, I think King JC has the fault, he distributes the activities for all the people in CR, and I don't know why He doesn't give princess Letizia some activities, in my opinios is sooooooooooooooo selfish from the kING.
 
I don't agree here. No way she does exactly what Felipe does. He's the heir, must be in the drivers' seat, does the speeches, the important talking, prize presentation etc. Letizia is there to assist and do small talk, that's her role and all other female CPs do the same, but not ALL THE TIME. This is what I critizise. There are fields of interest that she could occupy such as journalism and media, very suitable and different from the usual children's issues, mostly occupied by Queen Sofia and the Infantas.

Felipe has been working hard to raise his media profile, which is a must for him since in Spain media (not including the yellow press) and politics are so tightly together. So he and Letizia share the media sector together, I see it very appropriate, good for Felipe, thus it's good for Letizia since her destiny is certainly tied to his. I think you put too much importance on who is reading a speech from a piece of paper.
My observation, Letizia takes on children's acts, Felipe on business, they share the media, culture/language sectors. But I do like seeing her having more acts related to children. Hillary Clinton used to work for the Children's Defense Fund. I don't think children's issues are degrading anyone's intellectual capacity, it really depends on what you are actually doing.
 
Just read spanish media these days, there are some really interesting articles around...

Estrella Digital*28/09/2007*-*OPINIÓN:*¡Larga vida a Su Majestad!
La España sin pulso que Ibarretxe ha puesto en evidencia - elConfidencial.com
La Entesa solicita que el presidente sustituya al Rey como jefe del Ejército | España | Accesible | elmundo.es
Dios salve al Rey (de algunos monárquicos) · ELPAIS.com


There are other great articles, but you have to have the login to be able to read them, if anyone is interested, please PM me;)

The press is on fire right now and that's something the latest El Jueves' cover shows:

http://estaticos01.cache.el-mundo.net/elmundo/imagenes/2007/10/01/1191252421_0.jpg

Let's see what happens now:rolleyes:
 
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You have reason, there are many articles, hundred. Personally I prefer not placing any, because the choice of some or others can give a vision different enough from the topic.

A little while ago a journalist defining this situation like a circus, circus that only has an end the elections of March. This is not a serious debate, they are groups of radical or persons of extreme ideas who have found a way of being made notice. And they all enter the circus, because it is an element of confrontation politics and because it gives pull to the press. And later, there are the million Spanish who have moderate positions, and that believe that there are things that matter more, that this "circus" that is going to go to no place.

On the topic of the King and the Army, it is one more, the Catalan or Basque nationalists are expert at promoting things that know that they are not going to take place, or in promoting processes that move away from the legal thing. There are million Spanish who live in another zones of Spain and are bored of these histories.

Later there are absurd things, if in an act there are 200 applauding and 10 protesting ... it is news this 10. Because ultimately it seems that those who do more mess, which create scandal, or even they break the laws ... they deserve more advertising. In the last weeks, and as response to these protests voices of support go out every day to the Monarchy, civilized voices, which defend their opinions with the word, but that like they do not burn anything they are not interested so much :rolleyes:. Politicians, bishops, businessmen (the included Catalans), victims of the terrorism, military, syndicalists ...

But ultimately, this type of situations believe uncertainty in most of the population, that what wants is that the State, the Institutions and the politicians do their work, and that stop creating these "circuses" that ultimately slightly positive contribute the citizens.

Only the time will say in that this finishes, if really it damages to the Monarchy of a serious form, or ultimately it produces the opposite effect.
 
I think you put too much importance on who is reading a speech from a piece of paper.
Doing a speech is a statement, people can see what you stand for or what your opinion or view on a certain topic is and the speeker will find himself or herself in the center of attention. I find it a huge difference in terms of public acknowledgement if Felipe does the speech with Letizia sitting there and listening or the other way around. If it wasn't important why would Zarzuela take so much care that Felipe does the speeches, even in Letizia's fields of interest?

But I do like seeing her having more acts related to children. Hillary Clinton used to work for the Children's Defense Fund. I don't think children's issues are degrading anyone's intellectual capacity, it really depends on what you are actually doing.

I am with you, no disrespect meant regarding children's issues. It's important and a great topic to occupy and that's what most Queens or CPs do. But what I would like to see is a topic that comes along naturally, because it either reflects the background or a special interest. It gives a CP her own profile, respect and credibility because she knows what she's talking about and is personally involved. I can't think of one CP who does not occupy such a topic these days - there are plenty of examples (it's another question what topics are more important than others so I'll leave it here ;)). I find it sad that Letizia is not allowed to do the same as she could easily find a suitable topic for herself, be it journalism or media or even related to her own tragic experience, the death of her sister Erika.
 
Just out of curiousity, when other Royal ladies attend functions with their husbands, are they merely "accessories" as well? Or is that a "privilege" for Letizia only?

No they're not and letizia is much more than mere accessory but only because we know she is smart, pretty and wears good outfits. if she was ugly, fat and stupid we wouldnt even notice her.

If people want to see what she is capable of they need only look at her extensive and impressive CV. Letizia has proved, more so than some of the other CP's, that she is more than capable of achieving.

a cv doesn't mean that much. a person can have a great cv and doesn't fit royalty. same logic: someone can be a great royal and be stupid in professional life. you can't compare a cv with royal performances. be a good jourlaist doesn't implie you'll be a good queen...

As for "visible work", she attends the most events of all the CP's, as her schedule is one of the busiest. She does exactly what Felipe does, except he sometimes makes a speech. She meets the same people, participates in the same conferences and shows the same amount of dedication. More importantly though, she has often done so under much more difficult circumstances.

exactly. she does the same felipe does, shes not adding anything new. i believe arab queens are more participating in public acts than letizia.

Well Felipe has himself confirmed she is heavily involved with his work and often helps with his speeches.

how do you know she often help him with his speeches?
you see maxima talking about micro-credit, you see mary creating a foundation you heard mette marit talking about childrens problems. what about letizia?
 
The Princess of Asturias already has begun to develop her own activities linked to the infancy. And her activities will continue increasing with the passage of time. Though the priority has been and is different.

Every Royal House decides since the things have to work, for the Princess of Asturias her country must be the priority, must know her country, the institutions, the social organisations, have contact with all the areas of the society ... and the best way of doing it, is to do it next to her husband. The certain thing is that the Prince, with the exception of any military or managerial acts does not have acts he only either. At this moment, that the Princess has a global vision of Spain, and that the people perceive to the Princes as an team that works for the country ... it is more important for the Royal House, that the Princess develops a charitable activity. This activity that she has started developing linked to the infancy, will be growing with the time.

For the present time, the Princes have an intense enough agenda. The own Princess has commented that her intention is to know diverse organizations and projects that had presenting her, but that until she does not have time to interfere in a serious and active way in one of them, is not going to promise with any.
 
Doing a speech is a statement, people can see what you stand for or what your opinion or view on a certain topic is and the speeker will find himself or herself in the center of attention. I find it a huge difference in terms of public acknowledgement if Felipe does the speech with Letizia sitting there and listening or the other way around. If it wasn't important why would Zarzuela take so much care that Felipe does the speeches, even in Letizia's fields of interest?

It's important for Zarzuela because of the protocol, the formality, Felipe being the heir; it's not so important for some since the speech is still read from a piece of paper, the real substance is the contents. Indeed, media is the interest of Letizia, but it can also be the interest of Felipe. I remember Felipe mentioned that if he were not the heir to the throne, he would have wanted to be a journalist.

I am with you, no disrespect meant regarding children's issues. It's important and a great topic to occupy and that's what most Queens or CPs do. But what I would like to see is a topic that comes along naturally, because it either reflects the background or a special interest. It gives a CP her own profile, respect and credibility because she knows what she's talking about and is personally involved. I can't think of one CP who does not occupy such a topic these days - there are plenty of examples (it's another question what topics are more important than others so I'll leave it here ;)). I find it sad that Letizia is not allowed to do the same as she could easily find a suitable topic for herself, be it journalism or media or even related to her own tragic experience, the death of her sister Erika.

She does share the media sector with Felipe. There is no proof that the children's topic didn't come naturally for her. I can't imagine Hillary was interested at children's issues by simply looking at her.
There were too many rumors on Erika's death. One rumor was that the family denied that Erika died of depression.
 
a cv doesn't mean that much. a person can have a great cv and doesn't fit royalty. same logic: someone can be a great royal and be stupid in professional life. you can't compare a cv with royal performances. be a good jourlaist doesn't implie you'll be a good queen...

All those Cpsses are playing the roles the royal houses want them to play. They are not the Queens yet. The time they become the Queens, they will have to run the royal household, work ethic and intelligence will come to play more. For Letizia, likely she will have more freedom to play her Queen's roles since the boss will be her husband, not her father-in-law.

exactly. she does the same felipe does, shes not adding anything new. i believe arab queens are more participating in public acts than letizia.

Not true. Since the marriage, their engagements yearly (under normal circumstance) inside Spain has trippled compared to Felipe's single days. Lots of invitations were for both, not just Felipe.

how do you know she often help him with his speeches?

It has been mentioned by Felipe, at the media too. Over the years, Felipe had always been the person who liked to alter the speeches, sometimes he even completely rewrote the speeches, that had made Zarzuela nervous at times. Considering Letizia's journalist background, it doesn't surprise me that they work at the speeches together. Anyway, both are detail persons, perfectionists at work, in a sense they are quite alike at work, perhaps that's why they enjoy working together.
 
Demonstrators protest against the Spanish monarchy outside the inauguration of a Barcelona book fair by Spain's Prince Felipe and Princess Letizia, 02 October 2007. Spanish prosecutors on Tuesday today 15 months' jail for two Catalan separatists who burned photos of King Juan Carlos and his wife Queen Sofia earlier this month.

ANP Beeldbank
 
that the people perceive to the Princes as an team that works for the country
People's perceptions differ. For some people, it looks less like "teamwork" and more like "follow the leader." Some of that is naturally in play with Felipe being the heir and Letizia the consort, but it's tricky to try to establish a "team image" with a "she's not good enough to do things by herself" strategy.

The own Princess has commented that her intention is to know diverse organizations and projects that had presenting her, but that until she does not have time to interfere in a serious and active way in one of them, is not going to promise with any.
She couldn't promise with anything even if she wanted to. Surely her lack of involvement isn't due to lack of interest. Like someone else mentioned, she's got her role to fill like all of the other Crown Princesses so she'll be "serious and active" when Zarzuela tells her that she can be "serious and active." No different from any of the other houses.

People keep mentioning her CV, but what good is a CV full of things that you did four, five, six years ago when you aren't being given the freedom to use those skills independent of your husband? For all of the talk of what's done "behind the scenes," there comes a time when some evidence of that ability needs to be shown in public. That's why it's a good thing that she is finally getting a few opportunities to do things without Felipe at her side. Zarzuela is the problem not Letizia, but she is the one that their decisions reflect upon.
 

Thanks for the articles crisinaki.

Penafiel somehow hit the nail on the head. For me, the difficulties of the Spanish monarchy become obvious when he names Juan Carlos the most characteristic monarch after Queen Elizabeth II. He certainly is, but not so much as an ambassador for the monarchy itself but rather more for who he is, his character or personality, enabeling him to stand firm and guiding the country into democracy. His merits have much more to do with himself rather than the history or background of the institution "monarchy", even though it gave him the authority to act as he did. Looking at the importancy of the 10 European monarchies, their history and background, Queen Beatrix must be the one right behind Queen Elizabeth II. Juan Carlos is a blessing for his country because he was the right person at the right place at the right time and not because of the institution itself. If Felipe becomes King his respect will only be based on the institution what makes him much less important or respected and he does not have a wife by his side who could turn the tide as in other monarchies (eg Silvia of Sweden). Felipe will probably be King but I doubt that Leonor will be Queen. I am with other posters who said that the one thing that could save him or the monarchy is a public vote but only if it's conducted by Juan Carlos himself, asking the public to support his son. It's a gamble but if it is won, Felipe will have a much easier and successful reign as it might be the case without a vote.

By the way, this is the article Penafiel is referring to (sorry but my Spanish is too bad to translate):

DAVID GISTAU
Todo empezó con Letizia. Con ella hicieron guantes los críticos de la Corona, como el boxeador con el sparring. Y en el tanteo descubrieron que era posible subir al ring a disentir del mismo Rey y su aureola numismática sin que por ello hubiera que temer un rayo descargado desde el Olimpo. Fue un descubrimiento liberador, un ejercicio de madurez. No sólo porque le recortaba a la Monarquía esa distancia impune, intocable como una estampita, que era un recordatorio de las antiguas sumisiones del súbdito.
Sino porque además toda una generación, para la que el franquismo estaba en la enciclopedia, se emancipaba de repente de la coacción histórica, casi de la superstición paternalista, que fue urdida durante la Transición para proteger a la realeza y sus besadores de manos, justo cuando España aceptaba corregir sus tradiciones para salir al mundo, renovada y homologada con el exterior una vez superado el susto final de los tricornios en el Congreso.

Como coacción, me refiero a aquélla que en el propio referéndum de la Constitución asoció el destino personal del Rey al de la nación. De forma que era obligado creer que, sin él, nos comportaríamos como niños a los que no se puede dejar solos y que estarían condenados a la desunión perpetua, al Frente del Ebro, a la destrucción por implosión. Podía colar en los años frágiles del post-franquismo. Pero ya no. No cuando los niños-vasallos han madurado como ciudadanos en los que no existe la tentación de la involución, que no comparten con los galos el miedo a que el cielo se abata sobre sus cabezas por ofender al tótem, y que acaso se sientan preparados para darse un sistema en el que nada venga dado por la gracia de Dios ni por chantaje. Ni siquiera los muñecos ornamentales. Por eso, después de Letizia vinieron los osos borrachos, el pijerío profesional, las portadas de El Jueves y un discurso crítico que está sanamente instalado en todos los estamentos de la sociedad, aun en los más frívolos, que nunca fueron valientes.

La corrosión de la institución no ha de preocupar al Rey, sino a Felipe, que heredará un suelo movedizo y, a pesar de la cizaña nacionalista y del abatimiento por los malos presidentes como 'Zetapé', carecerá de situaciones de emergencia comparables al 23-F con las que hacerse valer, con las que justificarse. Por eso, cuando le tiemblan las paredes, la Casa acaba de filtrar un mensaje: atacarnos es «atacar la unidad de España y la Constitución». Una vez más, asocian su destino personal con el de la nación. Como si aún funcionara la coacción y en verdad hubiéramos de creer que no se nos puede dejar solos, sin una figura que se decrete intocable a cambio de salvarnos de nosotros mismos.
 
Opinions there are hundreds and many differ from these that you have chosen.

Peñafiel bores, and his idea on the women much more. I am tired of reading, how some of them pledge in using Letizia, always. Since for years they have used any girlfriend of the Prince, because for years these girls were a weak aim that was easy to attack. And the girls could have better or worse qualities but it was not necessary to tear them into pieces. If I have something clear, it is that she was the one who was the wife of the Prince of Asturias, one had attacked her of the same way, from a decree or from other one, for her qualities or for her lacks. Simply because they were the weakest aim.

There has been a social change, but this change neither affects only the King or the Royal Family, one nor owes only Letizia ... it concerns many areas of the institutions and the society.

On the other hand, in what concerns another article, it extracts many things of place. A debate like that can concern the Constitution, the unit of the State, the form of State, the public Institutions .... it is necessary to to be a much more serious debate. And if this debate, it does not take place and does not appear of a serious form, it is because today per today, the majority of the politicians and of the Spanish citizens do not believe it necessarily. These debates are done in the Parliament, neither burning things, not either with threats, or with violent acts, nor using arguments lacking in seriousness. Because what one sees now from several areas, is more a group of children of college without educating, that a democratic citizens.

The ends are not good, it is not good that you do not treat anything, but it is not worth the turpitude, the lie and the unjustified assault either.

In his institutional function, the King has to fulfill the role that grants the Constitution to him, and not can to cheat the people attacking with things that do not depend on him, but of decisions of the Government or of the Parlament. The King does not do the laws. On the other hand, in his personal life, his friendship or his interests, in this aspect the whole people knows, for years, that the King has committed his mistakes. But if a denunciation wants to be done or criticizes one of something, which is done on serious information, and on gossips manipulating the truth. On the Princes of Asturias, and in I make concrete the Princess (the great business), not only they have said of everything, but many of the things that have said sound absurd things or lies.

I have the impression, of which the King and with it the strategies of the House of His Majesty the King, they have remained stagnant. They have not been capable of adapting to the pace dizzy in that the society has changed. There is something that does not work. In this aspect, I believe that the Princes can have another vision of the things, because they have grown in this generation, and because they are accustomed to living in this " Big Brother " continue.
 
The warning

The fact that all these current matters, which are neither substantive nor substantial, are getting blown out of proportion constitutes a warning. The warning is the same as in a marriage. When love fades away, minor issues become major conflicts. And these minor-turned-major issues are just epiphenomena of the lurking discord. The only possible way to save a marriage is for the spouses to assess their feelings and decide whether the relationship can be re-invigorated.
In the context of a nation, the marriage is between the People and their chosen polity (ie political system, that is, hereditary versus elected head of State). But the issue in Spain, right now, is peculiar in that a majority of the people may or may not be keen on the monarchy but it is highly likely that a majority likes the specific monarch sitting on the Throne.

Considering, therefore, that everybody would agree that the number of Juancarlistas exceeds, perhaps by far, the number of Monarchistas, the time while Juan Carlos sits on the Throne is the most opportune to settle the case. Such favorable for the monarchy situation shall never come up again.
 
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Queman fotos del Rey en Gerona | elmundo.es
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in Oviedo:

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In Navarra, Catalunya and Euskadi, there are a lot of city halls that don't display the spanish flag (rojigualda) even if that's mandatory by law and only show their flag (senyera in Catalunya, ikurriña in Euskadi) or simply don't show a flag at all:

La polémica de las banderas | elmundo.es

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Ibarretxe propone una consulta en el País Vasco el 25 de octubre de 2008 | elmundo.es

things are changing now in Spain, let's hope these changes bring the best for all of us *cough* federal republic *cough*:cool:
 
Crisiñaki, if the things have to change for groups of radical, that break laws, they compel and threaten ... badly we go. I do not understand that anybody, so as to support a certain ideology, endorses these actions. The same ones that burn photos of the King, have threatened with death some politicians in the last weeks, for not sharing their ideas. No Spanish of good endorses these attitudes. This cloud of smoke is extracting to the worse of Spain, the radical left side and the radical right, while the rest of the country (the majority of the country) observes amazed the situation.

The majority of these acts are organized (nothing is spontaneous) for independence radical Catalan groups. They start seeming their attitudes increasingly to those of the independence Basques, this that they support ETA, and that they burn things and threaten every week. Though at the moment, the catalans burn photos of the King, and ETA has tried to murder him.

The topic of the flags is there for 30 years, because they go 30 years breaking the law. That now this topic is in use politics, it is another thing.
 
If the anti-monarchy campaign were initiated by the nationalists in Catalonia, then it surely wouldn't go anywhere, since the majority of Spaniards don't like to see Catalonia becomes another nation. That's exactly the challenge for the Republicans, how to hold the nation together. The King had been untouchable for a very long time, sooner or later he would be subject to the criticism by some. He has done many great things for Spain, also made mistakes too, Federico Jimenez Losantos was ranting against him, well, nobody (including the King) can be liked by all.
Each country is different and the expectations are also at different levels. Sweden in the early 70s had a very old King and a playboy crown prince. After the old King died, the Swedes were just glad that their playboy King finally got married and settled down even though he got married to a commoner. The Swedish King has never been seen as one of the sharpest knife in the drawer even today, I really have a hard time to see him in the shoes of Juan Carlos no matter whom he is married to.
 
Each country is different and the expectations are also at different levels. Sweden in the early 70s had a very old King and a playboy crown prince. After the old King died, the Swedes were just glad that their playboy King finally got married and settled down even though he got married to a commoner. The Swedish King has never been seen as one of the sharpest knife in the drawer even today, I really have a hard time to see him in the shoes of Juan Carlos no matter whom he is married to.

You are right, we cannot compare. Queen Silvia changed everything for the better but it's another country, history, role understanding. Carl Gustaf needed somebody to stand in the spotlight for him whilst he could work in the background and Silvia was the perfect match. I said in an earlier post it's about being the right person at the right time doing the right thing, what applies to people as JC or Queen Silvia. Felipe has to deal with his own circumstances and if there ever was the chance to marry a woman who could turn Juancarlistas into Felipistas, it's gone now. Letizia has not and will not make Felipe look any better or the monarchy any more stable but I don't think her role is somewhat decisive in this matter either.

Some say Felipe is not fit for purpose but what exactly is the purpose? I am not really sure what people expect from Felipe since he probably won't have the golden opportunity his father had and there is not too much history or tradition in the spanish monarchy that the (living) spanish public can think of. JC is very much related to the mission he had, guiding the country into democracy but what do people want Felipe for?
That's much different in other countries where the public wants their heirs to follow into the footsteps of their predecessors and representing the monarchy in present times. The best prepared and most stable heir is probably Willem Alexander who married a woman with the ability to strenghten the monarchy and who is respected in his own right, becoming fit for purpose not only through his marriage but also through the guidance of his mother and the influence of his late father.
 
Duke, curiously, in these days, the Prince scarcely enters in the debate (except for Jimenez Losantos's determination in that the King renounces). The debate and the assaults of these groups are more centred on the King, probably because for some, to attack the Monarchy, in these circumstances, it is more to attack the Headquarters of the State, that to attack the institution in it (case of the independence more radical) ... and for others it is a moment to take advantage of the circumstances and to expire old revenges (it is not necessary to forget that the most extreme right was the one that more lost with the democracy). Everything is inside a political general speech.

I believe, and it is a general enough opinion, that this type of attitudes become discredited to the persons and the message. The things do not defend themselves in this form.

On the Prince, I believe that the people can wait that is a moderating element, that though in another historical moment, he can play this role. Also that is a good representative of the State and a good ambassador of Spain in the exterior. Probably in his case they would be necessary certain changes. I am going to try to explain. The Prince is not going to have one 23F (let's wait), but I believe that there are small things in which the Prince can learn of certain mistakes of his father (precisely of those that use some to attack him). Probably these changes are more positive for the Institution, that a great political action.

On the Princess, always I have thought and I will continue thinking that it has been an excuse, and an excuse that is going out. The wife of the Prince always was going to be questioned, for a few reasons or for others, because it was going to be the element foreign to the Royal Family with a position of more power. Ultimately, who lasts win, and the time puts everything in its place. Though the press tries to continue taking advantage of the golden vein of the Princess, the topic already bores, has become absurd and incomprehensible, the critiques have lost increasingly felt.
 
You are right, we cannot compare. Queen Silvia changed everything for the better but it's another country, history, role understanding. Carl Gustaf needed somebody to stand in the spotlight for him whilst he could work in the background and Silvia was the perfect match. I said in an earlier post it's about being the right person at the right time doing the right thing, what applies to people as JC or Queen Silvia. Felipe has to deal with his own circumstances and if there ever was the chance to marry a woman who could turn Juancarlistas into Felipistas, it's gone now. Letizia has not and will not make Felipe look any better or the monarchy any more stable but I don't think her role is somewhat decisive in this matter either.

JC is still the King of Spain. How can Spaniards become Felipistas when Felipe is not the King yet ? The Spaniards were not Juancarlistas when JC was the Prince of Spain. I doubt the woman who can turn the Spaniards into Felipistas right now even exists. As great as Queen Sofia was/is, she didn't turn the Spaniards into Juancarlistas, she only became popular after the famous scandal in 92 involving JC and his long term mistress. The Spaniards started to appreciate her professionalism and dedication to the crown.
Many think Felipe looks better now, he has become more cultured, intellectual, less pijo, got rid of the frivolous image when he was single. Whether it's good enough to turn the Spaniards into Felipistas after he becomes the King, I don't know, we will see what happen in the future. With the current political situation in Spain, that is not ready for the Republic yet, if Felipe were the King today, he would get the chance to prove if he is a worthy Head of State or not. Nobody can predict the political climate 10 years from now.

Some say Felipe is not fit for purpose but what exactly is the purpose? I am not really sure what people expect from Felipe since he probably won't have the golden opportunity his father had and there is not too much history or tradition in the spanish monarchy that the (living) spanish public can think of. JC is very much related to the mission he had, guiding the country into democracy but what do people want Felipe for?

If he is better than the politicians (like his father), he will have a better chance to stay. The Spanish public is practical too.

That's much different in other countries where the public wants their heirs to follow into the footsteps of their predecessors and representing the monarchy in present times. The best prepared and most stable heir is probably Willem Alexander who married a woman with the ability to strenghten the monarchy and who is respected in his own right, becoming fit for purpose not only through his marriage but also through the guidance of his mother and the influence of his late father.

Yes, the other countries are a bit different since they see Monarchy as part of their history and identity. I agree WA is the most stable heir since he is the Dutch heir, not Spanish heir. I don't know if WA is the best prepared, I doubt he would have done better than Felipe if he were the PoA of Spain.
 
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On the Prince, I believe that the people can wait that is a moderating element, that though in another historical moment, he can play this role. Also that is a good representative of the State and a good ambassador of Spain in the exterior. Probably in his case they would be necessary certain changes. I am going to try to explain. The Prince is not going to have one 23F (let's wait), but I believe that there are small things in which the Prince can learn of certain mistakes of his father (precisely of those that use some to attack him). Probably these changes are more positive for the Institution, that a great political action.

Thanks for explaining lula. I have no doubt that Felipe would be or already is a good represetative of the State and a good ambassador for Spain, especially abroad, but isn't this the job that should be done by an elected Head of State in a republic? Why then need a monarchy to fulfill this purpose? And if all these nice privileges that JC enjoyed and somehow stand for a monarchy (all other monarchs enjoy them too one or the other way) have to go I wonder why keeping up the institution. Not sure, aren't there enough charismatic or respected politicians around in Spain to do the job? Or does the public want to see a dressed up royal family from time to time so they can discuss or critizise everything from their right to existence to Letizia's clothes? :rolleyes:
 
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