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  #1141  
Old 10-03-2017, 02:48 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
If I were Felipe, i'd decline to read a speech written for me by Rajoy..who has only enflamed the situation.

Rather his own words will be the ones likely to calm the Nation. Obviously the speech must be approved by the Government, but a choice of words that satisfies both King and PM MUST be found, and by 9pm...
The Spanish constitution, I believe, says that the ministers are responsible for the King's actions. Having said that though, I remember an interview King Juan Carlos gave early in his reign where he said that a Spanish king cannot be like a Scandinavian or a British monarch in the sense that there are times when he will have to be more proactive in state affairs. Juan Carlos certainly was proactive when needed and I wonder if the police reaction we saw on Sunday would have happened the way it did if Juan Carlos were still king instead of Felipe.

The problem for Felipe is that the separatists and the republicans still identify the Bourbon monarchy with the unitary Castilian state or, worse than that, even with Franco's regime. So, there is no way the King can be an impartial, honest broker or a symbol of unity for them.
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  #1142  
Old 10-03-2017, 03:29 PM
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Juan Carlos lived a historical moment, which is not the current one. He could intervene actively in political matters in which Felipe can not intervene, he must be much more prudent and follow more faithfully the constitution.

King Felipe has a difficult role, because it is a difficult time, and political parties lack sense of State.

Podemos republicans and independentists will criticize anything he says, no matter how rational and prudent his speech is ... because that is what they always does. On many occasions they have the answer prepared before listening to the speech.

PP, PSOE and Ciudadanos will support the King ... but in the end all use these issues in an electoral manner.

Today the independentists have organized strike ... the Spanish police and their families, the non-independence politicians and the journalists have been harassed.

Unfortunately it would not be strange that the day ended with burning photos of the King of Spain, which is one of the favorite activities of some of these groups.
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  #1143  
Old 10-03-2017, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post

I guess there needs to be a moderator, is there any figure in Spain who has a moral authority and is trusted to be impartial?
This should be the time to emphasize that such a role could be perfectly played by a monarch.
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  #1144  
Old 10-03-2017, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
such a role could be perfectly played by a monarch.
And His Majesty WILL.. but those viscerally opposed to him, and to a united Spain will not listen...
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  #1145  
Old 10-03-2017, 03:44 PM
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If I recall correctly, JC had political powers in the beginning, when the Spanish State was formed after Franco. He gave it back when everything was on the way. For that reason for a long time his voice had a lot to say but the times are different now and Felipe could not inherit this past.

How can he be a moderator when his position is the position of the government, imo both sides are far too deep now to be moderated by the King and no person with a separatist or autonomic mindset would accept him anyway.

In other countries its usually a kind of elder statesman, who has probably dealt with the other side before. Has every former PM had the same hardliner position than Rajoy or is there a moderate person of the past?
It would be difficult for a foreigner and I doubt Brussels is keen to send somebody.
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  #1146  
Old 10-03-2017, 03:52 PM
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It would be difficult for a foreigner and I doubt Brussels is keen to send somebody.
Brussels is clearly closely allied to Spain, and therefore discredited [for Catalan Nationalists]. As you say it would be very difficult for a foreigner, but [just possibly] Barack Obama has sufficient respect [in Europe at least, if not 'at home'] to attempt it ?
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  #1147  
Old 10-03-2017, 03:59 PM
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  #1148  
Old 10-03-2017, 04:01 PM
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Given the official response from the EU I don't think that 'Brussels' is in a position to do much. It would be great if they could find some elder statesman indeed.

I still think that the King could have this position if he was truly willing to listen to both sides, set his own interests aside, and look for the best for all involved. So far, he has clearly sided with 'Madrid' so it would be hard to convince the other party that he truly has their best interest (which might be becoming independent and a republic) at heart - and it would definitely be a risky business. Maybe Letizia can bring something to the table as someone who apparently had republican sentiments before meeting the King; so she should be able to sympathize.
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  #1149  
Old 10-03-2017, 04:04 PM
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Wow, the King is really angry at the people in Catalunya! Not really the speech that would bring people together...

At the end he tries to say a few things to calm them down (I missed the first minute, so I might have said something similar at first as well) but his words are not really convincing and just seem to reiterate the 'Madrid' position. So, if there was any chance of him having a reconciliatory role (which was already very small), that moment has passed given his clear message that distances those who hold a different opinion: they just need to listen and behave (my interpretation of his words).
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  #1150  
Old 10-03-2017, 04:09 PM
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That is not rol for the King, his image would burn a lot and would not have assured any results.

Catalonia already has very high levels of independence of the central government. And it has reached a point where the Spanish government does not have much room to negotiate, because in order to do so, the Constitution should be changed and all Spaniards should vote for it.

I hope that the speech of the king serves as support for those non-independentists catalans who at this moment feel alone, targeted and attacked.
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  #1151  
Old 10-03-2017, 04:11 PM
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Catalan vote illegal - Spanish king - BBC News
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  #1152  
Old 10-03-2017, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Wow, the King is really angry at the people in Catalunya! Not really the speech that would bring people together...

At the end he tries to say a few things to calm them down (I missed the first minute, so I might have said something similar at first as well) but his words are not really convincing and just seem to reiterate the 'Madrid' position. So, if there was any chance of him having a reconciliatory role (which was already very small), that moment has passed given his clear message that distances those who hold a different opinion: they just need to listen and behave (my interpretation of his words).
It sounds like a speech clearly written by the Spanish government.
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  #1153  
Old 10-03-2017, 04:20 PM
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I regret the absence of ANY reference to the violence employed by the Guardia Civil, let alone condemnation of it...
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  #1154  
Old 10-03-2017, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
It sounds like a speech clearly written by the Spanish government.
Absolutely. Like if the government had hidden behind him. This is awful.

I appreciate the support to non-nationalists catalans that, just like Lula says, are the real losers of this situation. But this is nothing, means nothing (apart from ratifying further and harsher actions by the government) and will improve nothing.

What an horrendous week for Spain. I'm devastated.
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  #1155  
Old 10-03-2017, 04:26 PM
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The King looks stressed out and affected by the situation. He's between a rock and a hard place.
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  #1156  
Old 10-03-2017, 04:28 PM
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The King is not angry with the people of Catalonia ... the king is "angry" with the Catalan government that has impeached the Spanish and Catalan laws, and has committed numerous illegalities. He has defended the Constitution and the law, which is what any public servant must defend.

He has told the independentists that if they want to defend independence, they must do it within the law, which gives them the democratic resources to do so.

To non-independists catalans, he has shown support.

http://www.casareal.es/ES/Actividade...spx?data=13335

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  #1157  
Old 10-03-2017, 04:34 PM
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Well, little sympathy for the Catalan separatist movement there. The leaders are being blasted well and truly!
Was there even a call for mutual restraint and calm?

The King could hardly say anything that would go against the Spanish government and Parliament, but this was very much a broadside.

Wonder how this will be received in Barcelona tonight? Demonstrations?
Is there a risk the Catalan separatist leaders will be arrested?
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  #1158  
Old 10-03-2017, 04:37 PM
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Tonight's Spain's king Felipe VI speech in a few bullet points:

https://twitter.com/Suanzes/status/915297619433459713

- Hard attack on "reckless Catalan authorities".
- Condems their "irresponsible behaviour and inadmissible disloyalty".
- "They have broken the democratic principles of rule of law and ndermined harmony and coexistence in Catalan society itself".
- "Law and Constitution will be respected".
- To those (mainly non pro independence catalans) "who feel helpless now: you are not alone".
- "I express my commitment as King with the unity and permanence of Spain".
- "These are difficult times, but we will overcome them. These are very complex moments, but we will move forward".
- He did not urge to Catalan and Central Government to dialogue.
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  #1159  
Old 10-03-2017, 04:37 PM
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https://www.ft.com/content/76b00a7b-...4-aa49007f4d0f

no condemnation of violence.
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  #1160  
Old 10-03-2017, 04:43 PM
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At least there was no announcement of 'direct rule' from Madrid, or suspension of Catalan autonomy.. but a 'missed opportunity' I think.. no expression of regret at the injuries suffered by civilians, no attempt to spread balm....He called for unity but only criticised one side. The rule of law MUST be applied to all, including Baton wielding Policemen, or it is NOTHING...

It might almost have been Rajoy speaking....
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