Future and Popularity of the Spanish Monarchy

[LadyRohan]

Originally Posted by lula

It was Christmas Eve, the Spaniards at that time are having dinner with the family, not chatting on twitter ... so for the Republicans, communists or separatists (probably some also contrary to these religious celebrations) was very easy to convert the theme in trending topic ... really the number of messages needed was much lower than usual.

Actually when they react so strongly to something, it's because the king has done well and goes against their interests.

There are 2 issues here which are connected, but also need to be kept separate, to fully appreciate the Spanish situation in its entirety. The political question is, and will be in the foreseeable future, whether the kingdom of Spain can continue as it does today, within its territorial borders and with its current constitutional arrangements. My belief is, based on the data available, that the country will change into a federation, where more power is moved from Madrid to the regions that the country naturally consists of. This is easier to achieve than independence outright for i.e Catalonia and/or other regions (if the United Kingdom had any sense, they would make the same change to a federal state). Germany is a solid example in Europe today of a well-functioning federal state, with no real threats to its territorial integrity. Outside of Europe, Australia and Canada are two examples of the same.

New political parties always ride a wave of popularity when they enter the political arena, but they are always tempered, by bureaucracy, systemic rigidity and political and economical realities. In Europe today, one of the biggest reality checks, is the European Union. Not much is done on the continent without its involvement or approval, in one way or another, and a breakaway state will be a pariah when it comes to trade, diplomatic relations and integration into existing systems. For example, if Catalonia were to attempt to break free from Spain unlawfully, they would be barred from entering the EU at any point, by Spain itself, and countries such as Italy, Belgium and the UK, who fears the precendent of breakaway states. The posturing of people such as Artur Mas in Catalonia, is therefore mainly a way of a political leader to attain more powers and resources to his region, if possible through a systemic change. To stem the tide of independence in some of its regions, Spain should therefore move towards becoming a federal constitional monarchy, where the state is united, but where regional languages, culture, economy and customs is supported and encouraged.

The other issue is the popularity of the Spanish Royal Family itself. Despite being principally against the tradition in some Royal Houses to abdicate, I believe King Juan Carlos did the right thing when he stepped aside for his son to safeguard the throne for the future. He had become tainted in the eyes of too many Spaniards, and was in danger of becoming a person of ridicule, instead of the strong and determined King he was once seen as. In abdicating, he paved the way for King Felipe and Queen Letizia to establish a new image of royalty, which I believe they have greatly succeeded in doing. The tide that was growing of anti-monarchy sentiment is stemmed, and those vocal now are those who always were, and always will be critical, of the monarchy itself. Those groups exist in every kingdom, but they are nowhere near a majority of support in Spain today.

The last thing Spain has on its side is demographics. As people get older, they tend to become more conservative, and less interested in radical change. There is a saying: When you're in your 20s, you're a fool if you're not a radical thinker. If you're still a radical thinker in your 40's, you haven't learned anything.

As Spain ages, as the Royal Family behaves well and as politicians decide on how the Spanish state should function in the future, the monarchy seems quite safe to me, but as with anything, predictions are in the end, just predictions.

[Blog Real]

I also believe that the monarchy is safe these days do not come so many republican demonstrations as before King Juan Carlos abdication. The future is uncertain, but I believe that the monarchy is not at risk at the moment.

[Duc_et_Pair]

And in general the hopeless situation Spain was in, the unprecended depths of the economic crisis (which was a true crash in Spain) has now settled somewhat. The economy starts running again, however still a long way to go, the majority of the Spaniards will see that the bottom has been passed and it is going up again. When I was in Andalucía this summer, I really could see the difference from my visits in 2014, 2013, 2012: more activity, more economic buzz, more energy. When Spain advances as a whole, of course there is little need to look for a figurehead like the head-of-state as a scapegoat and blame it all to him or her.

[Duke of Marmalade]

I don't think that JC has ever been blamed for the crisis as such, he's no politician and neither is Felipe. I think the SRF was only dragged into the crisis shaming (being booed etc) because of Noos/Cristina/Inaki.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Well, also without Noos, "Madrid" was the evil genius. It was "Madrid" which came with draconic cuts, it was "Madrid" which forced people to work longer for their pensions, it was "Madrid" which raised the taxed and in return sobered public services, and "Madrid" that is the Government, the Parliament, the Central Bank, the King.

In the 1980's and 1990's Spain experienced a never-seen economic boom. The Spanish version of the Wirtschaftswunder. It all culminated in major achievements as the amazing Ciutat de les Arts i les Ciències in Valencia (1991), the Olympic Games of Barcelona (1992), the World Expo 1992 in Sevilla, the Palau de les Arts Reina Sofia in Valencia (1996), the Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao (1997), the start of the AVE, the high-speed rail network crossing all Spain in the 1990's, etc. The general welfare and economic position of Spain raised and raised and raised and came on par with average West-European standards. Spaniards were never so rich as back then.

In those years the popularity of Don Juan Carlos was at an all-time high. So it works both ways: when Spain advances well, it will do good for the King. When Spain is in a deep crisis, it will affect the King too, as he always embodies "Madrid" which has to run and manage the country.

[Al_bina]

Catalan councillors summoned over passport-size portrait that belittles Spanish king - Telegraph

The members of a pro-independence town council in Catalonia have been summoned before a judge after a complaint was lodged over the unusually small size of the obligatory photograph of the king hanging in their assembly hall.
While the norm is for a poster-size portrait of the Spanish monarch to preside over public spaces, the image of King Felipe VI in Torredembarra is no larger than a passport photograph.

I have to say that it is surprising to learn about "the obligatory photograph of the king" in democratic Spain.

[An Ard Ri]

Please keep this thread on topic,off topic posts will be deleted without warning.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Carles Puigdemont impulsó ‘quitar’ a Leonor el tÃ*tulo de Princesa de Girona

The new regional president of Catalonia, Charles Puigdemont, wants to remove the title 'Princess of Girona' from Leonor de Borbon, heiress presumptive to the Spanish throne.

Only a week ago Puigdemont was sworn into office, carefully avoiding swearing loyalty to Spain.

[Marengo]

How petty. Doesn't he have other things to do? Also: does he have the power for such a thing? Isnt the title a perogative of the crown?

[Duc_et_Pair]

It is just a historic title of the royal dynasty. Like Duke of Brabant, Prince of Wales or Duke of Nassau. It has no real meaning anymore. Petty indeed and hopefully it will backlash on Señor Puigdemont to target a little girl with his bullies.

[ANNIE_S]

As far as I can remember he has no competence over the title. Titles belong to the Crown and are just symbols. Remember that only the King could take away the Duchy of Palma from Cristina.

This is another try to get attention.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Al_bina

Catalan councillors summoned over passport-size portrait that belittles Spanish king - Telegraph



I have to say that it is surprising to learn about "the obligatory photograph of the king" in democratic Spain.

Is it? In democratic France the photo of M François Hollande is obligatory in buildings of the state. In the USA you will see the photo of Mr Barack Obama in buildings of the state. The picture symbolizes the bond with the head of state, that is really not that surprising, I must say. Du moment a democratic majority votes for another head of state, then we will see his/her photo in certain venues indeed.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

Is it? In democratic France the photo of M François Hollande is obligatory in buildings of the state. In the USA you will see the photo of Mr Barack Obama in buildings of the state.

both Heads of State have been elected by the public ...

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

both Heads of State have been elected by the public ...

That is no difference. When a majority of the people wants to get rid of a monarchy, it will happen. Plenty of examples. When a majority of the people is satisfied with a monarchy, it will not happpen. In both cases, a portrait of the head of state in buildings from the state is pretty normal.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Marengo

How petty. Doesn't he have other things to do? Also: does he have the power for such a thing? Isnt the title a perogative of the crown?

Leonor uses the title of Princess of Girona as the heir(ess) to the Crown of Aragon, which has been absorbed into the Crown of Spain. Likewise, she is Princess of Asturias as the heir to the Crown of Castile and Princess of Viana as the heir to the Crown of Navarra. The title of Princess of Girona does not belong to the city of Girona per se and is not under its jurisdiction. The mayor's actions, if he had succeeded, would have been inocuous anyway.

[Al_bina]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

Is it? In democratic France the photo of M François Hollande is obligatory in buildings of the state. In the USA you will see the photo of Mr Barack Obama in buildings of the state. The picture symbolizes the bond with the head of state, that is really not that surprising, I must say. Du moment a democratic majority votes for another head of state, then we will see his/her photo in certain venues indeed.

Your retort is quite odd.

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by ANNIE_S

As far as I can remember he has no competence over the title. Titles belong to the Crown and are just symbols. Remember that only the King could take away the Duchy of Palma from Cristina.

This is another try to get attention.

That's what I was thinking also Annie,it all sounds so juvenile and surely he has more pressing issues to deal with.

[Blog Real]

Think the recent controversy of the Kings of Spain will harm the Spanish monarchy?

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by Blog Real

Think the recent controversy of the Kings of Spain will harm the Spanish monarchy?

Well, its a huge image blow, thats for certain. Its a serious blunder to the strategy of the royal house to give the monarchy an untainted image, distancing themselves from everything that is possibly related to corruption.

Now we see leaked an embarrassing imessage conversation between the Kings where they - especially the Queen, in foul language, labels the newspaper, that has published an article about alleged criminal activities of her friend as s**t and even encourages her friend instead of being cautions and not going on record with statements (even though private). And this from a woman who was a former journalist herself and now represents an institution that stands for morality and impartiality more than anything else.

And because this friendship went well past this conversation despite the allegations, people believe that this is a case of 'preaching this while doing that', appearing in public cleaner than clean, wearing no jewellery and kicking out the sister and inlaw while in private mingling with the upper social class that can't differentiate between entitlement and wrongdoing.

This will not bring down the monarchy, but it will not make it more popular either, the image damage is enourmous, especially because the messages are so authenic, straight out of the 'real' life of the kings, and not from the 'acting appearances' we usually se at events.

There are hundreds of articles in the newspapers, the term 'compiyogui' has set trends on twitter.

The vast majority of articles are very negative and even those who try to understand the human aspect of it (Javier being a friend, Letizia the victim of gossip press) critizise the obvious naivity and misjudgment of the situation with regard to what the family has been dealing with for years (scandals, leaked information etc etc). They should have known so much better, its certainly not a case of making a mistake and not doing it again in the future as there have been so many mistakes within the family already.

Un paso al frente » La gran mierda de Felipe VI y Letizia
https://translate.google.de/translat...%2F&edit-text=

[lula]

Obviously a damage to the image of the monarchy, a stone on the way for Felipe and an object of criticism and joke for Letizia.

The Royal House will have to work hard to overcome this blow, and it is not easy.

It is a terribly difficult time in which they are also very pressured by the political situation. No shortage of theories of those who think that this is a way to pressure the king in his decision making.

But also because the Royal House has a huge problem of helplessness in these situations. This information comes from legal proceedings that are open and have not been tried yet ... any explanation they can give, can be interpreted as a intromission of the Royal House in judicial proceedings.

But there is also an ethical issue. A republican newspaper, publishes a totally private message, which is partial and may be out of context, because it knows that will generate criticism and polemic, at a time when public opinion is very sensitive to certain issues. These private messages have appeared casually is a judicial inquiry, and are leaked to the press by someone who obviously has an interest in doing harm, or use them as a defense. Is it ethical to publish private messages obtained unethically? And they know that the Royal House will not be able to defend because it is a judicial process under investigation.

Diego Torres has been a good teacher, and the press followed his game knowing that the emails have no legal validity and were a defense strategy to try to save himself... and now others follow the same game.