80th Birthday of HRH The Infanta Margarita, Duchess of Soria and Hernani

[An Ard Ri]

In general its queen Sofia and Infanta Elena who attend most of the family events,king Juan Carlos has always suited himself at the expense of his family .I'm not sure if queen Letizia has any sort of relationship with the Infanta Margarita and her family which might explain her absence .

[HereditaryPrincess]

Nice to see Sofia and Elena at the celebrations and I agree with those who aren't surprised by Juan Carlos's absence. He rarely attends some family events still; so it's nothing new sadly to see him miss this one out.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

A poster of Noblesse et Royautés wrote that during a family celebration Infanta Elena was angry . She said to the King , her Brother that she out of the Casa real having no official attendences anymore .. etc...

Keeping a slim Royal House cannot be an excuse to throw Infanta Elena out, not least when Felipe’s daughters are still children. I wonder if the problem was how to justify keeping Elena while sidelining Cristina at the same time.

[lula]

That is an invention of Internet "fake news" websites that invent a new thing every day, please, stop repeating them without foundation.

It was King Juan Carlos who established who and who is not part of the Royal Family, and the king's sisters are not part of it. Pilar and Margarita were never part of the Royal Family, as now Elena and Cristina are not part of it. That is the law. They were educated and growing knowing that they should develop their lives apart from the Crown, and that when their brother was King they would no longer be part of it... therefore they have no right to claim an official presence.

Elena has a job achieved thanks to the influence of her father where she earns a salary more than generous, her parents use their official and private agenda to publicize the company for which she works... something that Felipe continues to allow even though it collides with some of the rules that the Royal House has established. She should be happy and keep discreet, and take care of her children that enough scandals generate lately.

[Biri]

So when Princess of Asturias becomes Queen, Infanta Sofia will be automatically "thrown out" of the Royal family? (Unless something happens with the King)

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by lula

That is an invention of Internet "fake news" websites that invent a new thing every day, please, stop repeating them without foundation.

It was King Juan Carlos who established who and who is not part of the Royal Family, and the king's sisters are not part of it. Pilar and Margarita were never part of the Royal Family, as now Elena and Cristina are not part of it. That is the law. They were educated and growing knowing that they should develop their lives apart from the Crown, and that when their brother was King they would no longer be part of it... therefore they have no right to claim an official presence.

Elena has a job achieved thanks to the influence of her father where she earns a salary more than generous, her parents use their official and private agenda to publicize the company for which she works... something that Felipe continues to allow even though it collides with some of the rules that the Royal House has established. She should be happy and keep discreet, and take care of her children that enough scandals generate lately.

Pilar and Margarita’s situation is completely different from Cristina and Elena’s as the former grew up before the restoration of the monarchy. Elena and Cristina on the other hand were recognized as royals and had official royal duties for most of their lives . Furthermore, unlike Pilar and Margarita, they are still in the line of succession to the throne. There is no reasonable rationale to apply their aunts’ precedent to Elena and Cristina.

[lula]

Each Royal Family has its rules and laws and that is something that must be respected. The Norwegian Royal Family, the Dutch, the Danish, the ideas of the Prince of Wales ... are aimed at reducing the number of members in the Royal Families.

Spain being a restored monarchy is one step ahead, the law that determines who belongs and who does not belong to the Royal Family, is established since 1981. The future of Elena and Cristina was always planned with that in mind, they have always known that when their brother was king, they would no longer be part of the Royal Family.

One of the new rules created by King Felipe is that a member of the Royal Family can not work in a private company. Elena works in a private company where she receives an annual salary higher than that of King Felipe and double that of Queen Letizia ... I do not think she has any interest in leaving that job.

[Stefan]

What i don't udnerstasnd is that is always said Royal Family. They are certainly still a part of the Royal Family but not of the official Royal Family. Would it not better to say they are no longer part of the Royal House like it is in the Netherlands where the sons of Princess Margriet are no longer part of the Royal House since the abdication of Queen Beatrix but still part of the royal Family which includes all descendants if Queen Juliana. Also in Norway there i a difference between the members of the Royal House and the royal Family

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by lula

Each Royal Family has its rules and laws and that is something that must be respected. The Norwegian Royal Family, the Dutch, the Danish, the ideas of the Prince of Wales ... are aimed at reducing the number of members in the Royal Families.

As far as I can tell, the posters here were indeed discussing just the Spanish Royal Family, but as for the other European royal families, none of them appear to have recently demoted any royals who carried out official royal duties to having no official presence at all, excepting occasions when the royal left voluntarily (e.g., Prince Christian of Denmark, who chose to marry a commoner rather than remain a member of the Danish Royal House).

Originally Posted by lula

That is an invention of Internet "fake news" websites that invent a new thing every day, please, stop repeating them without foundation.

[...] She should be happy and keep discreet, and take care of her children that enough scandals generate lately.

As you pointed out, it seems the Infanta has kept discreet as the alleged complaints, if delivered at all, were delivered privately. But what are the scandals Victoria de Marichalar has generated lately and in what manner could her mother have prevented them?

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by lula

That is an invention of Internet "fake news" websites that invent a new thing every day, please, stop repeating them without foundation.

It was King Juan Carlos who established who and who is not part of the Royal Family, and the king's sisters are not part of it. Pilar and Margarita were never part of the Royal Family, as now Elena and Cristina are not part of it. That is the law. They were educated and growing knowing that they should develop their lives apart from the Crown, and that when their brother was King they would no longer be part of it... therefore they have no right to claim an official presence.

Elena has a job achieved thanks to the influence of her father where she earns a salary more than generous, her parents use their official and private agenda to publicize the company for which she works... something that Felipe continues to allow even though it collides with some of the rules that the Royal House has established. She should be happy and keep discreet, and take care of her children that enough scandals generate lately.

So why does Felipe still allow/or possibly even ask Elena to represent the Crown? I am not talking about showing up at her aunts birthday but doing events that are officially listed on casareal's website, such as last week.

I've never understood this, either you are out or you are not. I can't imagine that Elena is called because they are short of people or because she needs the money.

[An Ard Ri]

Both of king Juan Carlos sisters renounced their succession rights upon marriage though this was before the accession of king Juan Carlos in 1975.

Of the two sisters I don't see the lack of any public role as an issue for the Infanta Margarita who likes to live privately but her older sister Infanta Pilar seemed to have enjoyed a more public role. Two examples I can think of off hand Infanta Pilar represented the SRF at the Investiture of Queen Beatrix in 1980 and at the funeral of Diana,Princess of Wales in 1997.

[lula]

In Spain, the Royal Family is only the official Royal Family. The rest are the King's Family. The institution that works for the King is the House of His Majesty the King.

Elena and Cristina have not been full-time royals, they have had private jobs and the money they received was not a salary, but a compensation for the expenses of the events they attended. Their husbands did not have a title on their own,could not represent the Crown alone, nor did they receive any payment for accompanying their wives.

Duke, about the visit to the Christ of Medinaceli, it has always been an event of the King's Family (Pilar and Margarita also attended in the past) , more than an official event of the Royal Family. It is never included in the official agenda, but they always place the photos on the web although they may not do so. The other two events that Elena has attended this year, one was because she is still Honorary President of the Paralympic Committee and another because she works for the Mapfre Foundation. Elena, as Pilar and Margarita did occasionally, may represent the King in some event, but generally they are minor acts, more related to monarchical traditions.

King Felipe has tried to organize things in accordance with the laws and provide the organization with more transparency ... but on many occasions it seems that his parents are not making it easy, when contradictions arise they usually arise from the fact that some members of the family does not accept that things have changed. It seems that in some cases he must reach agreements, so that they do not create more problems.

About Victoria ... she has turned 18 and now the press knows more about her life. She goes a course behind what corresponds to her and has changed school, it seems that she is having some problems with her studies. She has a supposed boyfriend or close friend, a bullfighter who is a friend of her brother, and it is usual to see her in the bullring and at the racecourse. Last week a video appeared of her with the bullfighter trying to fight a small cow, and it has been published that she went to the party that Vox (the extreme right political party) did in a nightclub in Madrid. The image of the children of Elena, is that of rich and privileged children, with little interest in studies and many interest in parties and outdated traditions.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Thanks lula, this will be a big problem for Infanta Sofia, a member of the royal family until her sister becomes Queen, something that can well happen in her mid 30s, until then she cannot work in the private sector (unlike Elena, Cristina) but has to work full time for CR, and then from one day to another she stops being a member of the royal family and somehow has to provide for herself, if not in the private sector where else? How can Infanta Sofia create a life of her own under those circumstances?

[lula]

We will see how they solve that in the future. Possibly the best thing would be for her work as an Infanta to focus on the area in which she studies, in this way the step would be easier.

Infanta Elena was a teacher of pre-school children, after her marriage she decided to stop working to take care of her children. And only after the divorce, when she needed a higher salary to maintain her standard of living, her father get her the job of a director in a foundation... work for which she had no specific training only her collaboration as an infanta in some social events. So she started that job at 45.

[An Ard Ri]

Back to the Birthday Party here are a few photos of some of the guests

HRH The Dowager Duchess of Calabria with H.E The Duke of Soria

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...source=sh/x/im

HRH The Infanta Elena,Duchess of Lugo

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...source=sh/x/im

Doña Maria Zurita curtsy to Queen Sofia

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...source=sh/x/im

Doña Simoneta Gómez-Acebo

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...source=sh/x/im

The Viscount and Viscountess de la Torre
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...source=sh/x/im

[maria-olivia]

I really like the Dowager of Calabria.
She may enjoy life now .

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

I really like the Dowager of Calabria.
She may enjoy life now .

HRH seems to enjoy a good relationship with the extended Borbón family .

[HereditaryPrincess]

It's great to see the extended RF there - a nice chance to catch up with Sofia and Elena. Is it known how much the extended RF sees the more major - in terms of succession - members of their family?

[camelot23ca]

Simoneta Gomez-Acebo looked very nice. I like what she’s wearing but she also has a great smile. The few times I remember seeing her in pictures or videos before she’s always seemed like a genuinely cheerful person.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by lula

In Spain, the Royal Family is only the official Royal Family. The rest are the King's Family. The institution that works for the King is the House of His Majesty the King.

Elena and Cristina have not been full-time royals, they have had private jobs and the money they received was not a salary, but a compensation for the expenses of the events they attended. Their husbands did not have a title on their own,could not represent the Crown alone, nor did they receive any payment for accompanying their wives.

Duke, about the visit to the Christ of Medinaceli, it has always been an event of the King's Family (Pilar and Margarita also attended in the past) , more than an official event of the Royal Family. It is never included in the official agenda, but they always place the photos on the web although they may not do so. The other two events that Elena has attended this year, one was because she is still Honorary President of the Paralympic Committee and another because she works for the Mapfre Foundation. Elena, as Pilar and Margarita did occasionally, may represent the King in some event, but generally they are minor acts, more related to monarchical traditions.

King Felipe has tried to organize things in accordance with the laws and provide the organization with more transparency ... but on many occasions it seems that his parents are not making it easy, when contradictions arise they usually arise from the fact that some members of the family does not accept that things have changed. It seems that in some cases he must reach agreements, so that they do not create more problems.

About Victoria ... she has turned 18 and now the press knows more about her life. She goes a course behind what corresponds to her and has changed school, it seems that she is having some problems with her studies. She has a supposed boyfriend or close friend, a bullfighter who is a friend of her brother, and it is usual to see her in the bullring and at the racecourse. Last week a video appeared of her with the bullfighter trying to fight a small cow, and it has been published that she went to the party that Vox (the extreme right political party) did in a nightclub in Madrid. The image of the children of Elena, is that of rich and privileged children, with little interest in studies and many interest in parties and outdated traditions.

It looks similar to the division into Royal House and royal family in some other monarchies:

Casa Real = the royal couple, their children, the former royal couple.

The royal family = all descendants of Don Juan de Borbón (Don Juan Carlos' father).

Which - like in other monarchies - does not exclude that incidentally members outside the Casa Real have some public engagements, often linked to a patronage or an interest of that member.