Wedding of Eleonore of Habsburg and Jerome d'Ambrosio: July 20, 2020

[Kataryn]

My Problem with the annulment system is that it is needed at all. Why no simply accept a civil divorice like the other Churches (at last here in Germany do) do it.

The Roman Catholic church was ruled for centuriers by Italian popes. Rarely a French one popped up because the French king enforced that. So the church does what the Italians think is right, the old Italians, and they are not yet ready to accept a more modern solution.



In not so long times past, the daughter of Karl would never have married this guy, just as Karl himself would not have married the daughter of a mere Baron. He was heir and then Head of the House of Habsburg-Lorraine, who according to the House laws has the right to call himself the Emperor, as that title from 1806 onwards was connected to the Headship of the House and not of lands to be ruled over. Just like "Archduke/duchess of Austria" was not longer connected to Austria (which only had one! reigning Duke, the "Arch"-part was fake anyway, but accepted), but to the House of Habsburg.


So for "monarchists", this is a mesalliance of a daughter out of a "mesalliance" anyway, so does it matter if the groom has been married previously in a Catholic church???

Both are part of the 'Defect of contract' - the second one on the list. However, this example shows how annulment can be 'arranged' - and lying about your motives is approved and sometimes even encouraged by some bishops just to obtain the desired result.

This is my main problem with the whole annulment system; while annulment makes sense in cases where the groom or bride truly had no input in getting married (forced marriages); in most other cases it is a divorce but the church finds away around it to call it something different so they can uphold the idea that they are against divorce and remarriage while still allowing it to happen. Rather hypocritical.

Interesting post - I wasn't aware of that! Thank you.

 

[Stefanie]

IMO it' s a matter of money.
We all know that Rainer in 1992 gave some obulus to Rome and Caroline got rid of the Junot marriage.....
Only pity that Stefano was already dead

 

[Gawin]

My Problem with the annulment system is that it is needed at all. Why no simply accept a civil divorice like the other Churches (at last here in Germany do) do it.

The Roman Catholic Church views marriage as a sacrament, which other churches do not (at least not Protestant churches).

Because of that, a marriage performed in a Catholic church can only be undone (annulled) by the church. As I understand it, representatives of the church study the case to determine if the rules or conditions for a valid, sacramental marriage were met. Obviously, this can't be done by a civil authority unfamiliar with those rules and conditions.

Another analogy - because the Roman Catholic Church closed the door and locked it, only it has the key to unlock it.

So for "monarchists", this is a mesalliance of a daughter out of a "mesalliance" anyway, so does it matter if the groom has been married previously in a Catholic church???

You make a good point regarding the traditional monarchists, but it may be that the couple themselves want to be married in the Catholic church, meaning an annulment was necessary.

 

[Heavs]

You make a good point regarding the traditional monarchists, but it may be that the couple themselves want to be married in the Catholic church, meaning an annulment was necessary.

I assume that it's the couple themselves who wish to be married in the Catholic Church. Either from religious beliefs or tradition or even "just what's expected". This is especially as it is the bride's first wedding and it may be what she wants - the full works.

Just as an aside, I do find it interesting when what would seem on the surface to be a "good" match today would be considered a *very* unequal match in the past, as in the case of the bride's parents.

 

[Gawin]

Just as an aside, I do find it interesting when what would seem on the surface to be a "good" match today would be considered a *very* unequal match in the past, as in the case of the bride's parents.

Absolutely! Think of the uproar when Archduke Franz Ferdinand married Countess Sophie Chotek! And she was much more aristocratic than Francesca, who was born a mere Baroness!

I enjoy it when former royals marry former royals, but I see nothing wrong when they find happiness with a non-royal, as Eleonore has.

 

[JR76]

Just as an aside, I do find it interesting when what would seem on the surface to be a "good" match today would be considered a *very* unequal match in the past, as in the case of the bride's parents.

Let's just say that Regina and Otto weren't thrilled about the marriage...

 

[Gawin]

Let's just say that Regina and Otto weren't thrilled about the marriage...

Didn't some of the family refuse to attend the wedding ceremony?

 

[Somebody]

The Roman Catholic Church views marriage as a sacrament, which other churches do not (at least not Protestant churches).

Because of that, a marriage performed in a Catholic church can only be undone (annulled) by the church. As I understand it, representatives of the church study the case to determine if the rules or conditions for a valid, sacramental marriage were met. Obviously, this can't be done by a civil authority unfamiliar with those rules and conditions.

Another analogy - because the Roman Catholic Church closed the door and locked it, only it has the key to unlock it.

Shouldn't they look into that when they conduct the marriage instead of afterwards when the couple wants out and is looking for an 'acceptable' reason?! Do they also study marriages that remain in-tact to ensure they are all valid, sacramental marriages? If not, shouldn't they do so if somewhat regularly they find upon further examination -in the case of a divorce- that marriages were invalid?!

 

[Gawin]

Shouldn't they look into that when they conduct the marriage instead of afterwards when the couple wants out and is looking for an 'acceptable' reason?! Do they also study marriages that remain in-tact to ensure they are all valid, sacramental marriages? If not, shouldn't they do so if somewhat regularly they find upon further examination -in the case of a divorce- that marriages were invalid?!

I've often wondered that myself.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Wasn't Gabriela of Habsburg marriage annulled following her divorce?

 

[Denville]

Isn't that a rather strange reason given that everyone knows that the Catholic Church considers marriages being for life? Sounds like buying a car and returning it for having wheels.

Just because people know it does not mean that they abide by it. Some times people want a "church wedding" or to please parents and aren't all that committed...

 

[Stefan]

Didn't some of the family refuse to attend the wedding ceremony?

None of the brothers of AD Otto attended the marriage of Karl and Francesca.