Claims to the Portuguese Throne

[Menarue]

As far as I can see in her family tree she is a descendant of D. Urraca the daughter of D.Afonso Henriques but in that she has a lot of competition as even Bill Clinton, George Washington, Robert E Lee, Ronald Regan, George Patton, and most of the other presidents and many people famous in US history also were descended from her as are the nearly 600,000 (I think at the last count) people in Portugal of noble extraction. Ah yes
which one of her parents is the descendant - both are descended but from both the male and female lines, nothing direct.

[Regina]

Just imagine if all these american presidents decide to claim the Portuguese throne...

Anyway, they wouldn't have a chance just like catherine de Medici and so many others because they were not born on Portuguese soil...

[Elsa M.]

Nuno da Câmara Pereira was interviewed for the TV show "Só Visto" and, again, defended the claims of the Duke of Loulé. Here's a link to the video:

SÓ VISTO! - Vídeos Multimédia RTP=

[Alberto2244]

An extract of an e-mail I received from a friend who is a friend of this noble family:

"Oui, j’ai entendu parler de cette question de la pretention du Duque de Loulé. Mais, as tu jamais entendu que les Walford (ducs de Marchena) tiennent aussi l’idée d’être les legitimes heritiers du trône de Portugal? Je le sais par eux mêmes et ils tiennent cette pretention puisqu’ils viennent de la princesa de Beira comme fille ainée de D. Joao VI."

[Elsa M.]

Originally Posted by Alberto2244

Mais, as tu jamais entendu que les Walford (ducs de Marchena) tiennent aussi l’idée d’être les legitimes heritiers du trône de Portugal? Je le sais par eux mêmes et ils tiennent cette pretention puisqu’ils viennent de la princesa de Beira comme fille ainée de D. Joao VI."

Thanks again, Alberto!

Hmm... never heard of those people.
I looked on Genea, and I suppose it's this gentleman: John James Walford

GeneAll.net - John James Walford, 4th duque de Marchena

If that's so, he and his siblings are all cut out of the line, since none of them were born Portuguese.

[Regina]

WOW, so many pretenders to the Portuguese Throne! This should go to the Guiness book of records!

[Marengo]

Just how do they claim they have a right to the (not existing) Portuguese throne? They descend from infanta Maria teresa indeed (I believe the dukes of Machenta is a side line of the Spanish RF), but surely a daughter of a more recent monarch than Joao VI would take presedence? Otherwise, why wouldn't the claim pass to the descendants of a'Portuese princess of a few generations before Maria Teresa?

[Elsa M.]

Originally Posted by Elsa M.

The registry services are investigating the birth certificate of D. Duarte Pio de Bragança, after a process to challenge his nationality was activated by a collaborator of Rosario Poidimani

The Portuguese Office of Records has now concluded that there are no doubts about D. Duarte's Portuguese nationality:

Correio da Manhã

[Regina]

I can't read the article

[Elsa M.]

Originally Posted by Regina

I can't read the article

The weblink has already expired... here's the paper version:

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/4...reiodamanh.jpg

[Regina]

Thanks for for your scanning, Elsa!

There are person who distrust the new published by Correio da Manhã. According to these persons, The Portuguese Office of Records didn't exactly conclude that there are no doubts about D. Duarte's Portuguese nationality, as the newspaper said.

There's a discussion about this here (the official reply from POF is published just like some private conservation between people related to theis case!).

[Science]

May I mention that Dr. van Uden (the husband of Dona Maria Adelaide
Manoela) was greatly respected and liked as a person and a scientist, when he
spent a year at the at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in California in 1960. I am sorry to have recently learned of his death in 1990. He was someone who was splendid to work with, and to have known.

[Regina]

Originally Posted by Science

I am sorry to have recently learned of his death in 1990. He was someone who was splendid to work with, and to have known.

Did you know Dr. van Uden, Science? How amazing!

[Science]

Dear Regina, - Only by working in the same lab. I was, at the time recently
graduated from college. (Dr. van Uden was one of three visitors to the
Microbiology Department at the Oceanographic Institute. The others were
from the Max Planck Institute, and from Japan. All were studying samples
from a recent Expedition, and working on their research. The accomplishments
in Portugal regarding, especially, yeasts are stunning. I was sorry to learn of his
death at the laboratory he founded.

[Regina]

Science , I'm glad to hear such a good opinion about Dr. van Uden. It only confirms what I already thought about this family. I hope D. Francisco's sons become so good professionals as their grandfather!

[cmbruno]

I have a question: Who had the right to bear the title Duque de Bragrança? I've read at Geneall. net that the title passed to D.Miguel, son of D. Miguel I and so forth till D. Duarte Nuno, although I've read somewhere else that the title was relinquished from Prince Pedro Gaston, son of Prince Pedro de Alcântara of Orléans-Braganza and Countess Elisabeth Dobržensky de Dobrženicz (son of Princess Izabel, grandson of Emperor Pedro II of Brazil) to his sister, wife of the same D. Duarte Nuno. Both ways the title would be D. Duarte Pio's. It is sooooooo complicated with all those relinquishes, pacts, laws...

[JSP]

After the Restoration of 1640, the title became apanage of the sovereign's son and heir.

That's why some 2nd children who ascended to the throne (D.Luis and D.Manuel II) were never Dukes of Bragança.

D.Miguel I might have used at some times.

At the end of the Monarchy, the title was used by both lines : D.Pedro V, D.Carlos and D.Luis Felipe, and by D.Miguel II and D.Duarte Nuno during the life of D.Manuel II.

An article by Wikipedia on the subject:

Duque de Bragança - Wikipédia, a enciclopédia livre

[Elsa M.]

Sapo - Portal Fama - D. Duarte penhorado


D. Duarte was condemned to pay 100.000 € to the Order of St. Miguel de Ala.

17 properties and a 260 000 € bank account of the heir to the Portuguese throne were pledged by the court.

The legal issue began in 2007, when Nuno da Câmara Pereira sued D. Duarte for usurpating the Order of St. Miguel. Now, D. Duarte was condemned to pay 100.000 € to Nuno da Câmara Pereira, for the misuse of its symbols.

[jonc93]

Originally Posted by Elsa M.

Sapo - Portal Fama - D. Duarte penhorado


D. Duarte was condemned to pay 100.000 € to the Order of St. Miguel de Ala.

17 properties and a 260 000 € bank account of the heir to the Portuguese throne were pledged by the court.

The legal issue began in 2007, when Nuno da Câmara Pereira sued D. Duarte for usurpating the Order of St. Miguel. Now, D. Duarte was condemned to pay 100.000 € to Nuno da Câmara Pereira, for the misuse of its symbols.

Rather unfortunate for D Duarte, but on the other hand I never knew he was that rich! I assumed he had money, because he was left inheritance from Queen Amelia but 260,000 euros is a lot and 17 properties! Where they taken away forever or just until he pays the 100,000 euros?

[Elsa M.]

Originally Posted by jonc93

Rather unfortunate for D Duarte, but on the other hand I never knew he was that rich! I assumed he had money, because he was left inheritance from Queen Amelia but 260,000 euros is a lot and 17 properties!

I assume the 17 "properties" include several old flats he inherited from his mother on Lisbon downtown... they're all rented, I presume. Still, 260.000 € is a lot of money for a family that doesn't live on a salary income.

Where they taken away forever or just until he pays the 100,000 euros?

Just untill he pays the 100.000 €