Marriage Issues

[snowflower]

How about the daughters of Louise, Princess Royal? Their mother was a Princess of Great Britain and Ireland and their father was His Grace The Duke of Fife, a non-royal peer. Their daughters Lady Alexandra Duff and LadyMaud Duff were created by their Grandfather Edward VII Their Highnesses Princess Alexandra and Maud of Fife taking their rank from their grandfather rather than the father, they were given precedence after all the member of the royal family styled HRH and they were allowed to use the coat of arms of a Princess of Great Britain and Ireland. Their father was never made a royal Duke though.

[Vlaha Karatsokaros]

Oh dear!!
Of course, but let see the specifics in the case above, that is of Alexandra Duff and Maud Duff:
1. They were the daughters of the Princess Royal (at that time)
2. They were the grand-daughters of Edward VII
3. They were great-grand-daughters of Queen Victoria
4. The King's decision to elevate them to princesses was published in the London Gazette, that is, as a statute of
the Empire!
5. Even so, Edward VII decided that they would follow the members of the Royal Family and declared them Princesses
and styled them as Highnesses but not royal
6. Their father, albeit strictly speaking a commoner, was nothing but a commoner. He was an Earl in his own rights, a
great-grandson of William IV (even though out of wedlock) and a great-great-grandson of George III. Last but not
least, he was elevated to the rank of Duke and made 1st Duke of Fife, in the British Peerage.

In essence, notwithstanding the constitutional and legal differences involved, the difference alone between a commoner like Madame Karella and a commoner like the Duke of Fife, Earl of Fife in his own rights, is at least chaotic!
Technically speaking though, insofar as Alexandra and Maud Duff were concerned, you are right, although they were made princesses by Statute of the British Empire, while King Constantine can create no Law*. Last but not least, even older Greek Constitutions never recognized titles outside the Royal Family. Thus, no person could be prince/ss, in Greece without being a member of the Royal Family and the Royal House. To put it differently, even when the monarchy was in effect, if one was not a royal highness he/she could not be a prince.

*As Head of a Royal House, however, he has the prerogative to elevate anyone he likes to princely status, particularly now that he is not bound by any constitution. All I am saying, however, is that elevating these ladies to princely status while their mother remains a commoner is inconsequential and rather unprecedented.

[snowflower]

I agree and accept all of your points, except the part where you underline that they were made princesses but not royal, because the first children of Prince George Duke of York and Mary of Teck were also mere Highnesses like Alexandra and Maud when they were born and they were still pretty royal .You are right that I am speaking of a technical point, because even if all the points you have made applied are quite correct, Louise's daughters were techincally the daughters of a non royal parent who was never made royal and still were princesses. Also technically, since Prince Philip was created a prince again in 1957, Charles and Anne were also a prince and a princess although they had a royal and a non royal parent when they were born , thanks to their grandfather's Letter Patent ( again, I speak again strictly from a technical point of view without taking into account that their mother was the heiress presumptive and their father was born a royal). So , one can say that there are times when the will of a monarch can determine the rank of his relatives who a born from a royal - non roaul marrige , at least in one monarchy.

[Odette]

Originally Posted by Vlaha Karatsokaros

It depends. If he just used Κυρία and not Κυρία Μάνου, maybe he was using British protocol to which he was quite used to due to his close relationship to Lloyd George and his second wife's being British-born and raised Greek of the diaspora, Elena Skylitsi that is. He may have used it this way or that way and for whatever reason we cannot know, since we can not read minds or know motives. The fact is he addressed her as a Kyria and did not use the honorific appropriate for the widow of a King.
If you gave me one example, just one, of a person born to a commoner who was declared prince or princess in his/her own rights I will accept it. Their mother was and is a commoner so this extends to them until and unless Marina Karella is created a princess. The requirement applies both parents.

We need to accept that the King as the head of the family has the right to elevate to the HRH title commoners themselves let alone children born to them. No need to go too far. All of Pavlos's children are born to a commoner and carry the titles of TRH Princes and Princess of Greece.
We do not have any Dukes and Counts in Greece therefore the King has the prerogative to give them or not give them titles. If the Greeks themselves accept or ignore them it is another story. Within the family they are recognised as much.

[CyrilVladisla]

Princess Alexandra of England (1891-1959) began a relationship with Prince Christopher around 1910. He was a son of George I and Queen Olga of Greece.
Although Alexander and Christopher hoped to be married, the engagement was terminated when their disapproving parents learned of the liason.